speculation on book (mentions events in serenity!) by tintin220

GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

speculation on book (mentions events in serenity!)

POSTED BY: TINTIN220
UPDATED: Monday, October 17, 2005 09:04
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Saturday, October 15, 2005 5:13 PM

i remember a time in safe that book was shot and when the feds looked at his id tag, they took him onboard and saved him, which means that he was/is valuable to the alliance.

in serenity, book says to mal all this stuff about how an operative was coming and how the operative thinks, approaches etc.

so i wondered how book knew so much about that.

was he once an operative or some other figure like that.

when he and mal speak, he says, "i wasnt born a shepherd, you know"
and mal says "youve got to tell me about that sometime"
after a pause, book replies "no, no i dont"

just my thoughts
tinman

im knew here, luv the show, luv the movie

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Saturday, October 15, 2005 5:23 PM

YTINERES

I was thinking along the same lines Tinman, something about the mannerisms of The Operative had similarities with Book. It is something I mentioned to friends on my first viewing. Especially as the Operative at the end says he is empty with no beliefs. You can see that a broken operative could easily turn to God to fill that void.

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Saturday, October 15, 2005 5:33 PM

SHINYOBJECT

Maybe he was the Operative's Father

Although before the movie came out I had a theory that book was the founder of the alliance and distinced himself when it turned into something more twisted form his vision.

hmmm.... i guess both could be true....

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Saturday, October 15, 2005 5:46 PM

MONTANAGIRL

While it wasn't spelled out, I think it was pretty obvious that Joss was telling us that Book used to be an operative. Someone who's ident card gets them unlimited access, even without "name and rank". And Book never actually had a name. When he introduces himself in Serenity the pilot, he says, "I'm called Book," not that his name is Book. It's a subtle distinction, but given that operatives don't have names it fits.

I think the Operative's story in Serenity the movie is supposed to mirror what happened to Book. Something caused him to lose faith in the Alliance, and with men like that the only options are to fall on their swords or find something else that they can believe in that strongly. Book chose God.

I still want to get all the details about Book's history though!

-------------------------------------------------
"Do you accept gifts from strange men?" -Brisco
"Well, strange is no problem, but I draw the line at men I don't know." -Dixie

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Saturday, October 15, 2005 9:37 PM

CACTUSBROWNCOAT

Quote:
Originally posted by montanagirl:

I still want to get all the details about Book's history though!

At first i thought i would want all Book's background history too...maybe even comic book format...but then again, isnt just speculating so much more fascinating? I agree with you guys thinking he was an operative, that would explain him becoming a shepherd to atone for his sins as an operative...but what if Joss wrote a comic or novel explaining he was just some high ranking Alliance officer...wouldnt you be disappointed? I just like making my own conclusion about Book's past...but that's just me :)

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Sunday, October 16, 2005 12:48 AM

DONCOAT

(*Mild spoiler warning*)

I think Book ranked higher than an operative. Indeed, he might have been on a level with those "key members of Parliament" who were brought to see River Tam at the "academy". Another possibility is that he was a high-placed general in the Alliance military, or someone in an intelligence role -- the sort of person who gives Operatives their orders.

Here's a thought: maybe Book *was* actually one of those VIPs who came to see River, then left the government (possibly *because* of River) to take his orders at the abbey. We have to assume that a fair amount of time elapsed from that point until Simon got River out. This could explain River's ongoing fears aboard Serenity: Book was right there... waiting...

Not likely, but fun to think about anyway.

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Sunday, October 16, 2005 2:25 AM

RABBIT2

I dont think that realy works, it takes years to train a priest and I doubt that Simon and River could have survived if the time between the escape and the boarding of Serenity is more than a couple of weeks.
I used to think that Book had either been some sort of high ranking Alliance Pollitician, Military Man or member of the judiciary but the idea that he was an operative is so good it has to be the right one.

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Sunday, October 16, 2005 3:11 AM

DONCOAT

No reason that both things can't be true. He could have been an operative who moved on to higher posts.

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Sunday, October 16, 2005 8:19 AM

RABBIT2

Could be, Chief operative maybe?

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Sunday, October 16, 2005 9:51 AM

SMOKE

Well what ever Book's past is, he definatley had some training of some sort. There is in almost every episode and the movie an idea or just something he says that makes you think how could a shepard know that.

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Sunday, October 16, 2005 10:18 AM

LISTER

From Objects In Space:

BOOK: I don't give half a hump if you're
innocent or not.
(beat)
So where does that put you?

For all the things I hear about Book finding God and leaving the Alliance and all that, I keep coming back to this line, and what it means. Nothing good I'm sure.

One would think that in this life
Where no two snowflakes are alike
One would have a brilliant rhyme
For each and every bit of time.

- The Yeti, CLUTCH

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Sunday, October 16, 2005 12:14 PM

BROWNCOATFAN1

maybe he was some kind of secret lawman or something like that. it made me so mad that we still did not find out who exactly he is! also in one of the expisodes in firefly, in war stores he knew the tracks were from a fast burnig rocket shuttle. he must of had something to do with alliance.

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Sunday, October 16, 2005 4:18 PM

TINTIN220

i also found it curious how experienced book is in terms of fighting (hand to hand and guns)

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Sunday, October 16, 2005 7:44 PM

RABBIT2

I think that when we are looking at the operative in the movie we are looking at an earlier vesion of Book.
They have both probably been through the same sort of training and indoctrination that made them totally dedicated to their job.
Book, like the operative at the end found out something that made him question the morality of what he had been doing and became a priest to in some way atone.
I doubt that it was the Miranda affair but probably something else equally bad.

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Sunday, October 16, 2005 8:12 PM

RUNA27

Hey! I'm new here, and a newbie Browncoat, actually, having only gotten into it (and boy have I. My bank account weeps after all the first-edition-comic-hunting, boxset-buying, Browncoat bracelet-buying spree I did last week

), thanks to SciFi Channel's reruns/promotional thing.

I have to admit, having just seen Serenity today (I know.

I wanted to see it earlier in the release, but the person I was bumming a ride from didn't show up, and I have so many classes and work that I couldn't get there until today!)...

Yes. My immediate thought was "Wow. Is he a former Operative?". This having not seen all of the TV series yet, either, but the evidence from the series listed here leads me to lean towards that as well.

Select to view spoiler:

Of course, now we'll probably never know, since he's... you know. ;_;

On a side note...

Select to view spoiler:

It was so sad when Wash died! ;_; And shocking... one minute, all sigh-of-reliefy, then BOOM! something falls through the windsheild or something!? But, during my post-movie chat with my mother, who I dragged to the theatre for it, we agreed that it really made the ending that much scarier and more thrilling, because after killing WASH, for goodness sakes, who knows who they'd kill next!? I'm shocked that we didn't lose anyone we really cared about after Wash. It sure as hell seemed like we were about to. And then the ending... the paralell between Zoe's loss and the beating Serenity took... so beautiful. I'm forever in awe of Joss now.

Great movie, though. Fun and scary and exciting in its own right, but wonderful if you're a fan... which do believe was the point, of course, but that just means it succeeded!

-Runa27

Can't Stop The Signal

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Sunday, October 16, 2005 8:13 PM

THEREALME

I once thought that Book was the general who won the Battle of Serenity. But who later quit, disgusted in the aftermath of that bloody battle. That would make an interesting mirror image with Mal.

Book won the Battle of Serenity and found God.

Mal lost the Battle of Serenity and lost God.

But now, I'm pretty sure we are meant to believe that Book was an Operative. (Note my careful phrasing!

)

The Real Me, First Officer of the Sereni-Tree

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Sunday, October 16, 2005 8:14 PM

MAJOST

We actually know quite a bit about Book. (Yeah, most of it has been mentioned before, but here it all is together)

-He got superb treatment on the Alliance Cruiser (Safe). So he was Alliance at some point, but he had obviously left the ranks... he must have left on some sort of good standing.

-He wasn't born a Shepherd... He probably did something military related since he can shoot kneecaps with extreme accuracy and knows guns, ships, etc very well.

-He wasn't high enough in the Alliance to have a public face... or just wasn't public. That to me rules out parliament or creator or even general in the military. And yet Early and (apparently in the novel) the Operative in the BDM knew him. (Well, Early at least knew something about him).

-He had sworn to protect the lawman in Serenity (Pilot)... I believe he made this oath in his previous life and not during the episode.

-His thought in OiS is probably a flashback to an execution he conducted during his previous life.

That, combined with the knowledge from the BDM that there exist operatives without names or ranks makes me think that it's the only way all of the above could be true. How else would he still get that kind of reception on the cruiser - it must be that his alliance identity only ever half-existed.

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Sunday, October 16, 2005 10:11 PM

THRAWN

Actually, the novelization straight up says he used to be an Operative. No speculation necessary.

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Monday, October 17, 2005 3:53 AM

DONCOAT

Quote:
Originally posted by Thrawn:
Actually, the novelization straight up says he used to be an Operative. No speculation necessary.

But I don't think we can take the novelization as canon.

Joss has been quoted as saying that he simply hands the script off to the author, then washes his hands of further involvement in the novelizations (of the movie and his other opuses). That suggests that any details that are in the book (small b), but not in the script, are embellishments by the author, not reliable descriptions of 'verse reality.

For example, in the novelization, the damaged Serenity flies off Mr. Universe's planetoid under its own power, before being repaired. This is just absurd; with only one thruster it couldn't go anywhere (except maybe flip itself over on its back).

That being said, even if we accept what the novelization says, it doesn't preclude the possibility that Book was something other than an Operative at some stage of his career.

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Monday, October 17, 2005 6:59 AM

MONTANAGIRL

Quote:
Originally posted by DonCoat:
But I don't think we can take the novelization as canon.

Joss has been quoted as saying that he simply hands the script off to the author, then washes his hands of further involvement in the novelizations (of the movie and his other opuses). That suggests that any details that are in the book (small b), but not in the script, are embellishments by the author, not reliable descriptions of 'verse reality.

KRAD, could you shed some light on this? Was saying Book was an operative you or was it on instructions from Joss? (Of course, if Joss said it straight out this is going to cut down a lot of fun speculations.)

-------------------------------------------------
"Do you accept gifts from strange men?" -Brisco
"Well, strange is no problem, but I draw the line at men I don't know." -Dixie

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Monday, October 17, 2005 7:09 AM

RABBIT2

Its not just his familiarity with the Alliance that clinches it for me, its that he seems to know how an operative thinks and what strategies he will use. While somebody high ranking in the Alliance would have knowledge of the existence of the operatives, the only way he could have that sort of insight is that he was once an operative.
I`m not convinced that Book had any other job in beween. If all operatives are as focused as the one in the movie is, and I suspect they are then they dont have anything outside their work. Its hard imagining someone like that deciding on a career change and becoming a Politician, General or whatever. They either die on a mission, have some sort of moral crisis and either find something else (like religion) to believe in or fall on their sword, or retire to `Assasin School` and train the next generation of operatives.

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Monday, October 17, 2005 9:04 AM

DANTE144

Gonna spoilerise, just in case you haven't seen the MOVIE.

Select to view spoiler:

Yep , I think Book was an operative. I think the Operative was a type of poetical echo of Book.

I think that leaves room for the Operative to come back later on, maybe in the end of the second movie or in the third movie(God providing they actually happen)

I would like the to see the Operator come back, as a reformed , redeemed , shepard like, spiritual guy, like our friend Book.

Also, Jubal Early knocked Book out. Do you think he could take out the Operative. Or they about the same level?

You know we never saw Jubal die...

"Jesus saves, everyone else takes damage" -tee shirt some girl was wearing at Megacon.

http://dantedreams.com <-my webcomic

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