Serenity's trueness to Firefly by ACrazyIvan

Yeah, I sincerely agree with you, my friend. Some people 'round here complain that Serenity wasn't as character driven and all other sorts of nonsense. I don't know what movie they were watching.

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The hardest thing in this world is to live in it. - Buffy

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Wednesday, March 29, 2006 8:54 PM

And we don't know what movie you were watching.

So, why make flame bait threads like this?

----
"We're in a giant car heading into a brick wall at 100 miles/hr and everybody's arguing about where they want to sit."
-David Suzuki

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Wednesday, March 29, 2006 10:59 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SigmaNunki:
And we don't know what movie you were watching.

So, why make flame bait threads like this?

Aww, did you not get enough sleep? Is that why you're bitching about nothing? How cute.

-------------------------------------------------
The hardest thing in this world is to live in it. - Buffy

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Thursday, March 30, 2006 3:44 AM

DEEPGIRL187

Quote:
Originally posted by Roland19:
Quote:
Originally posted by SigmaNunki:
And we don't know what movie you were watching.

So, why make flame bait threads like this?

Aww, did you not get enough sleep? Is that why you're bitching about nothing? How cute.

-------------------------------------------------
The hardest thing in this world is to live in it. - Buffy

Children, please. We're all friends here, there's no need to fight. How about meeting each other halfway? Serenity was plot-driven (it was a movie after all), but you also can't ignore the strong characters, particularly Mal and River. That being said, you're both right. See? We can all still get along.

At last.
We can retire and give up
this life of crime.

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Thursday, March 30, 2006 3:48 AM

NUCLEARDAY

Well, there's some stuff that just isn't going to work in movie form where you only have two hours to get the end; that was quite prevalent in the series. Have to stay quite a bit more focused in a movie, and can't have as many of those off-topic moments like in the series.

Speaking for myself, alot of the appeal that Firefly had for me was the little moments between the crew. The galley scenes, seeing them goofing around in the cargo bay, etc. For obvious reasons you can't have that in the movie, unless it's in some way pushing the plot forward. Not that there isn't anything like that in the movie, just not as much as in the series. The BDM for obvious reasons had to focus more on Mal and River than the rest of the crew, and what I liked about the series was seeing the interconnection between all of the BDH's.

Don't get me wrong, though. I'm as big a fan of the movie as I am of the series. Notwithstanding the fact that the BDM was what drove me from "oh, hey isn't it a shame about that Firefly show being cancelled?" to marching up and down the streets singing the theme song at the top of my lungs. (well, figurately speaking at least- though I still sing along the privacy of my apartment :)

But still, given a choice I'd pick having another series over another movie. The movie was great, and I still tear up all throughout the last half hour, and I even like the soundtrack as much as the series soundtrack. But there's some of the leisurely pace in a TV series that for me at least brings out more of a sense that these are real people sailing the black, making the best life they can, getting along as best they can.

Still, I'd have to say Serenity stayed true to the series as much as was possible when switching between mediums. But I'd expect no less from Joss and co. :)

Oh my, take a few days off from the boards, and I'm back to rambling on endlessly... sorry 'bout that ;p

________________________________________________
You can take my hope when you pry it from my cold, dead fingers.

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Thursday, March 30, 2006 5:17 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by deepgirl187:

Children, please.

Hey, don't make it look like I sunk down to his childish level. I was just making a point of fact.

Obviously, that this topic has been brought up time and time again and nothing but flame wars has been the result. Bringing it up, yet again, can benefit what... who... anything? I really think that these threads are generated by people who are just trolling. No good can come of them.

Basically, they don't understand us, we don't understand them. If history has taught us anything, it's that this topic should drop.

Again, point of fact.

----
"We're in a giant car heading into a brick wall at 100 miles/hr and everybody's arguing about where they want to sit."
-David Suzuki

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Thursday, March 30, 2006 4:54 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SigmaNunki:
Quote:
Originally posted by deepgirl187:

Children, please.

Hey, don't make it look like I sunk down to his childish level. I was just making a point of fact.

Obviously, that this topic has been brought up time and time again and nothing but flame wars has been the result. Bringing it up, yet again, can benefit what... who... anything? I really think that these threads are generated by people who are just trolling. No good can come of them.

Basically, they don't understand us, we don't understand them. If history has taught us anything, it's that this topic should drop.

Again, point of fact.

----
"We're in a giant car heading into a brick wall at 100 miles/hr and everybody's arguing about where they want to sit."
-David Suzuki

Why do you keep saying "we," like you speak for anyone other than yourself? You don't, not anymore than I do.

-------------------------------------------------
The hardest thing in this world is to live in it. - Buffy

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Thursday, March 30, 2006 5:31 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Roland19:

Why do you keep saying "we," like you speak for anyone other than yourself? You don't, not anymore than I do.

Ad Hominem.

You're going to have to chill man. This stuff isn't something to blow a blood vessle over.

----
"We're in a giant car heading into a brick wall at 100 miles/hr and everybody's arguing about where they want to sit."
-David Suzuki

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Thursday, March 30, 2006 5:34 PM

EVILDINOSAUR

Serenity was not 100% true to Firefly. I'll point out the differences.

-Serenity had a cold, dark, metallic look in the movie, as opposed to the warm, earthy, home look it had in the series, as Joss was going for the whole dark thing in the movie.

-In the series, Mal had clearly accepted Simon and River as part of his crew, then in the movie, not so much.

-I think they also changed the way in which River got out of the academy. It doesn't make sense that Simon did it, were that the case Simon wouldn't have been so clueless about what was up with River.

I think that's about it. Granted, that's not a whole lot of change, but at least a couple of those are pretty significant, to me at least. You are of course welcome to your opinion, just offering mine.

"Haha, mine is an evil laugh."

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Thursday, March 30, 2006 6:30 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SigmaNunki:
You're going to have to chill man. This stuff isn't something to blow a blood vessle over.

I'm chilled. It's just that I don't like that he's getting all up in my face, acting like he's better than me.

Plus, that guy's a prick.

-------------------------------------------------
The hardest thing in this world is to live in it. - Buffy

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Thursday, March 30, 2006 6:30 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by EvilDinosaur:

I think that's about it. Granted, that's not a whole lot of change, but at least a couple of those are pretty significant, to me at least. You are of course welcome to your opinion, just offering mine.

All very true. But, there is more on the list than that... a lot more. I've been thinking of detailing as many as I could find. But unfortunately, time is an issue.

*sigh* I miss watching my Firefly.

----
"We're in a giant car heading into a brick wall at 100 miles/hr and everybody's arguing about where they want to sit."
-David Suzuki

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Thursday, March 30, 2006 6:33 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Roland19:

I'm chilled. It's just that I don't like people acting like they know way more than everyone else.

Attacking someone is hardly being chilled. No matter what the cause.

Quote:
Originally posted by Roland19:

Plus, that guy's a prick.

Which guy?

----
"We're in a giant car heading into a brick wall at 100 miles/hr and everybody's arguing about where they want to sit."
-David Suzuki

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Thursday, March 30, 2006 6:34 PM

Sigma and Roland, I think y'all are carrying your own baggage into this thread. Yes, there were repeated flame wars over that topic, and clearly you've both been burned, but my impression of Ivan's post was that he was appreciative that Serenity was a continuation of Firefly, rather than a 'reimagining'. As in, same actors, same characters, same 'verse, same enough continuity. Sure there were differences, but none so substantial that it was unrecognizable as Firefly. Considering the kind of studio interference and re-tooling that could have happened, I think that's an accomplishment well worth appreciating.

~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ain't. We. Just.

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Thursday, March 30, 2006 6:47 PM

@nosadseven:
Pardon me, but I didn't start this thread, nor did I take the first swipe. I've tried to stay civil through the entire thing, not lashing out. So, why am I being lumped in with someone who wishes to do so simply because I'm on the recieving end?

"""
my impression of Ivan's post was that he was appreciative that Serenity was a continuation of Firefly
...
"""

Where I'm coming from is that threads are for discussion. If someone doesn't want to start a discussion, then they should post a blog.

Since a thread was started, it is implicite that a discussion is wanted. How has every single one of these discussions turned out? Poorly to say the least.

So, what other purpose is there for starting a discussion about a flame bait topic?

----
"We're in a giant car heading into a brick wall at 100 miles/hr and everybody's arguing about where they want to sit."
-David Suzuki

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Thursday, March 30, 2006 8:59 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SigmaNunki:
[B]@nosadseven:
Pardon me, but I didn't start this thread, nor did I take the first swipe. I've tried to stay civil through the entire thing, not lashing out. So, why am I being lumped in with someone who wishes to do so simply because I'm on the recieving end?
...
Where I'm coming from is that threads are for discussion. If someone doesn't want to start a discussion, then they should post a blog.

Since a thread was started, it is implicite that a discussion is wanted. How has every single one of these discussions turned out? Poorly to say the least.

So, what other purpose is there for starting a discussion about a flame bait topic?

My point was that I don't think the first post was about what you seem to think it was about. I see no flamebait in it whatsoever.

Read the first post. If the next post said something like, "Yeah, I was so worried they were going to re-cast Tom Cruise as Mal," or, "Thank god they didn't make the Alliance into aliens or something!" would you have questioned why the original poster even posted?

When I saw the title of the thread, I expected a flamebait post, and was actually surprised to find something so innocuous.

Not everyone on the boards these days was around for the Flame-Wars-of-Ought-Five, or the subsequent Troll-Hunts-of-Ought-Five. They don't carry that baggage and are probably bewildered by the way this thread has unfolded.

~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ain't. We. Just.

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Thursday, March 30, 2006 9:14 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by nosadseven:

They don't carry that baggage and are probably bewildered by the way this thread has unfolded.

I'm also a little interested in how you think that I'm "carrying baggage".

On a more general sociological point, I find it interesting that people think that they can assume so much of what someone else is on-line. That is, to assume someone fundamental about someone else when the evidence is superficial at best, never having met the person nor having really conversed with them before, on-line or off.

Now that is a paper I'd read.

But I digress. Back on topic.

I understand where you're coming from, though I'm not totally convinced myself. Especially since the original poster has yet to reply to this thread. Looks like this might be a, drop the bomb and run type thing. Perhaps I'm wrong though. That, is always on the table.

But, my opinion remains the same. If someone doesn't want to start a discussion, then they should post a blog. Posting a thread invites a discussion and given the volatile nature of this topic, I draw my conclusions.

Well, it's the flame bait thing, or complete ignorance. And I don't say that to be snide. I'm just saying that as a matter of fact. Ignorance is not necessarily malicious.

At any rate, I'm tired and have to wake up early again tommorow.

G'night all

----
"We're in a giant car heading into a brick wall at 100 miles/hr and everybody's arguing about where they want to sit."
-David Suzuki

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Friday, March 31, 2006 4:44 AM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by nosadseven:
Considering the kind of studio interference and re-tooling that could have happened, I think that's an accomplishment well worth appreciating.

In this day and age it's almost a gorram miracle.

Serenity was condensed and compacted for the big screen. It was at least a season's worth of exposition shoe-horned into one movie. Here's the math:
Firefly series episodes 15 through 22 + 2nd season divided by 15 = Serenity.

Sure it's different. Is the job y'all are doing now different than the last one ya had?

Vive la differance Chrisisall

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Friday, March 31, 2006 5:25 AM

SIMONB

Quote:
Originally posted by EvilDinosaur:
Serenity was not 100% true to Firefly. I'll point out the differences.

-I think they also changed the way in which River got out of the academy. It doesn't make sense that Simon did it, were that the case Simon wouldn't have been so clueless about what was up with River.

"Haha, mine is an evil laugh."

Not to get involved in the other stuff going on in this thread - I think that was something that flared up before I came to the site, so I'm leaving well enough alone - I wanted to say that I recently rewatched the pilot and Simon states that he hired a guy to sneak River out in Cryo. So I guess for the movie, Joss needed to show River's escape rather than just start with her on the ship and having to re-explain the whole back history in lengthy exposition, and I guess showing Simon do it was a lot more exciting than some guy putting her in Cryo and smuggling her out to Simon.

Just to say, I'm also glad that (despite a few necessary tweaks due to the different medium of film) that Serenity still stayed true to Firefly. Though I too would still have rather had more series episodes in an ideal world. I guess we only have the short-sightedness of

The Fox Network to blame.

- Shiny. Let's be bad guys.

That is not dead which can eternal lie, and with strange aeons even death may die

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Friday, March 31, 2006 5:41 AM

NUCLEARDAY

Quote:
Originally posted by SimonB:
So I guess for the movie, Joss needed to show River's escape rather than just start with her on the ship and having to re-explain the whole back history in lengthy exposition, and I guess showing Simon do it was a lot more exciting than some guy putting her in Cryo and smuggling her out to Simon.

That is not dead which can eternal lie, and with strange aeons even death may die

Yeah, I think that pretty much sums it up. If you really want to fit it all into canon, the way that I rationalize it all is this: Simon still likely needed a good deal of help, money, and luck to break River out. Likely makes sense that this underground movement helped Simon get in and out (the ship that flies over the shaft and picks them up,) and did stuff like forging his id's and getting him set with equipment, planning, etc. Also sort of makes sense for Simon to leave a few details secret when he's doing his explanation in the pilot. He doesn't know these people yet, so he's still playing his cards close to his vest, so to speak.

Oh, and love the sig, by the way. Cthulhu fhtagn!

________________________________________________
You can take my hope when you pry it from my cold, dead fingers.

Oh, and: "Sarge? I think I'm nekkid."

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Friday, March 31, 2006 5:55 AM

SIMONB

Quote:
Originally posted by nuclearday:

Also sort of makes sense for Simon to leave a few details secret when he's doing his explanation in the pilot. He doesn't know these people yet, so he's still playing his cards close to his vest, so to speak.

Yeah, very good point. It's also the same reason that he didn't tell them right away that River was psychic - you don't just blurt that out to people you don't know or trust when you're a wanted fugitive.

It's one of the things I love about the characters - each one has a complex history and most of them haven't shared their secrets yet, or all the details about their past.

It's just a shame that we may never know Book's past - that's something I'd like to learn more about.

- Shiny. Let's be bad guys.

That is not dead which can eternal lie, and with strange aeons even death may die

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Friday, March 31, 2006 6:19 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by nosadseven:
When I saw the title of the thread, I expected a flamebait post, and was actually surprised to find something so innocuous.

Not everyone on the boards these days was around for the Flame-Wars-of-Ought-Five, or the subsequent Troll-Hunts-of-Ought-Five. They don't carry that baggage and are probably bewildered by the way this thread has unfolded.

Quote:
Originally posted by SigmaNunki:
I'm also a little interested in how you think that I'm "carrying baggage".

You're carrying the baggage of the flame wars. All of us who were around at the time are. That's why I expected the orignal post to be flamebait... because all of that crap left an impression and colored my judgment of the thread title. But I've also been fortunate enough to participate in many constructive discussions of the issue (mostly on the UB with Sergeant_X), which was kind of cathartic.

And hey, I could be wrong about the original poster's intent, though I give him the benefit of the doubt since he only joined up in February. Times have changed - people generally aren't so touchy and many are blissfully ignorant, which should give us all an opportunity to just move forward.

~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ain't. We. Just.

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Friday, March 31, 2006 6:59 AM

ZORPRIME01

Of course there are discrepancies between the series and movie. It's a different medium, and there were a lot of factors involved, such as getting all the actors back, rebuilding sets, cramming about a season's worth of story into two hours, and attempting to cater two different audiences - one that already knew the basic premise and characters, and another that was seeing this 'Verse for the first time ever. That said, I think the changes Joss made were for the most part necessary due to the change in medium.

I too noticed the darker look of Serenity in the movie and slighter darker tone in general. Mal is in a different place by the time of the movie. Several months have passed, and Mal has gone to a darker place, as Joss points out in the Senenity film book interview. Book is gone, Inara is gone, and with them much of Mal's spirit to press onward. I think Serenity's darker appearance reflects Mal's change in character, and therefore find it completely appropriate.

If wishes were horses, we'd all be eatin' steak.

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Friday, March 31, 2006 7:24 AM

@nosadseven:
That's kinda an extermely general statement you know. I would hazard to guess that most here has been in that flame war and all have been in a flame war in at some point.

I call my reaction learning from history. I call my opinion knowing what the different things (threads vs blogs) are for. I call using them for there intended purpose common sense. Perhaps this is just asking too much of people now a days.

By the by, I'm not carrying any baggage about that whole thing. I saw someone that posted something to start a "discussion" about a certain topic that is just begging for a flame war. Also at this point, since these wars are still ongoing to a certain extent, if someone is paying attention just a little bit, they should know better.

The whole baggae is your assumption, which I am really having a hard time understanding now, given my general statement about how people can't make such assumptions. Have we even exchanged posts on this forum before this thread?

Oh, and the original poster still hasn't posted. Seems to me, if the guy had any other intent besides starting something, that he'd at least have posted something by now. If even it was just something like, "Yah, kinda what nosadseven said."

But he hasn't. This makes me really skeptical about his intentions.

That all being said, we clearly disagree and don't seem to be producing any fruitful conversation. Thus, perhaps we'll discuss on some other thread.

----
"We're in a giant car heading into a brick wall at 100 miles/hr and everybody's arguing about where they want to sit."
-David Suzuki

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Friday, March 31, 2006 7:41 AM

VERASNEWOWNER

Yeah, it did stay true to the series, apart from the previously mentioned changes such as sets, costumes and hair that have been tarted up for the big screen, apart from that, it did stay true.

The Simon and River thing, now sittng in the cinema i was sure that the alliance had recaptured River between there and the series, and Simon was breaking her out, but when i thought about it, i realised that it must have been a re-vamped version for new comers. Also, on the cryo thing, whats to say River wasnt put into Cryo after the breakout, if hes going to tweak stuff like this, Joss will think of stuff like this, he can fill in loop holes, hes a fanboy geek.

I also like the little touches to the sets etc, Kaylees painted flowers around Serenity were put back, the fairy lights and door plaque and hammock were all put back, and Wash's dinosaurs were also put back in the exact formation that was in the series run after the pilot.

Guess we can rule out saying "Curse your sudden... but inevitable betrayal" to Joss at a convention about changing everything, cos to me, everything checks out.

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Friday, March 31, 2006 7:43 AM

JEDILOW

sigmanuki... I've been lurking around the forums for a short time (only found out about Firefly through Serenity and all the hype surrounding it... and what got me to get off my butt and into the movie theater was Orson Scott Card's comments about it), so I have no idea about what history it may have (heck, I just registered on to post this reply)...

Please, stop carrying around all that crap. Me, as a new user, looked at this thread because I was genuinely interested in what people thought. I didn't expect to see a flame war beginning with certain people trying to push it. I don't blame the original poster for not replying - why? I wouldn't want to reply to the topic if I started it and got the response that people like you have given.

To the couple people that've actually posted something constructive - thank you. Its actually answered some questions which I was wondering (like what Simon said about River in the pilot to how he got her in the movie)... and now that I've actually seen the whole series I'm looking forward to watching the movie again (and then going through all the commentaries).

So yeah... if this turns into a flame war, I'll just disappear... and my faith in browncoats will be that much more diminished. I've come to love Serenity and Firefly (finally watched the last episode today), but if its fans are just looking to flame every new person that comes on board then I really don't want to deal with them or anything else in the 'verse.

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Friday, March 31, 2006 7:58 AM

EMBERS

Quote:
Originally posted by JediLow:
sigmanuki... I've been lurking around the forums for a short time (heck, I just registered on to post this reply)...

To the couple people that've actually posted something constructive - thank you. Its actually answered some questions which I was wondering (like what Simon said about River in the pilot to how he got her in the movie)... and now that I've actually seen the whole series I'm looking forward to watching the movie again (and then going through all the commentaries).

So yeah... if this turns into a flame war, I'll just disappear... and my faith in browncoats will be that much more diminished. I've come to love Serenity and Firefly (finally watched the last episode today), but if its fans are just looking to flame every new person that comes on board then I really don't want to deal with them or anything else in the 'verse.

Welcome JediLow...
and let me assure you that flame wars are relatively rare at this site (usually they are confided to the 'Real World' section...LOL)

Personally I agree w/the original poster that 'Serenity' is an amazing film and it a true reflection of what a film based on 'Firefly' should be. Of course it is totally Joss' vision, which makes it great IMO.

Joss Whedon has remarked many times that there is a huge difference in making movies and making television:
television by it's nature is just constantly asking questions while movies must cut to the chase and answer them.

and he said that television is feminine:
all about relationships and endless talking...
while movies are masculine:
all action, in and out and it is over.

Joss Whedon could not have made a film that would have been as good as 'Serenity' if he had spent a lot of time sitting around the dinner table with the crew. I would have loved it, heck, I'd have taken 2 solid hours of the crew laughing and talking....but I don't think that that would have gotten very good reviews. And 'Serenity' did get wonderful reviews.

**********************************************
watch the R. Tam Session vids: http://www.hittarivertam.nu/
and buy the 'Serenity' comics published by Dark Horse
have you checked out this thread?:
http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=2&t=15816

and listen to 'I'm Going To See Serenity':
http://music.podshow.com/music/listeners/artistdetails.php?BandHash=a0
c814e1229742ce77ed4497cbf4631c

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Friday, March 31, 2006 8:34 AM

SigmaNunki- Just substitute 'history' for 'baggage', then. I wasn't trying to use the term derogatively, just descriptively, though I suppose it can be a loaded term. Didn't mean to offend! But honestly, I don't think we disagree quite as much as you think we do.

And FWIW, we've crossed paths over the last year or two, though I don't know that we've previously had an 'exchange'.

Anyway, I'll let everyone back to the original little star-crossed thread...

~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ain't. We. Just.

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Friday, March 31, 2006 9:57 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by JediLow:
sigmanuki...

heck, I just registered on to post this reply)...

Please, stop carrying around all that crap.

So, basically you just registered to post a reply to something that has already clearly ended and you think you're able to take some sort of high ground? You think that you are able to make it look like you aren't trying to start something? In all seriousness, you forget yourself.

Also, if you want to learn about what people think about Serenity vs Firefly, etc, there are numerous threads in the archives that go into great detail... great great detail. They are also a lot longer than the one here. There is a reason why people have stopped talking about this after all.

Also, regarding this:
"""
but if its fans are just looking to flame every new person that comes on board then I really don't want to deal with them or anything else in the 'verse.
"""

If you're serious about this, then that's just sad. How can you judge an entire communitee based on this one thread and what you call "a short time".

And if you were here for even a "short time" then you'd be aware of the great number of "thanks" threads regarding there warm welcome. Sorry, but your conjecture doesn't hold water when looked at from any angle.

Exagerate much?

Now if you want to get into some serious non-antagonistic discussion, then continue. But, don't think that you can do something like that and not be called on it.

----
"We're in a giant car heading into a brick wall at 100 miles/hr and everybody's arguing about where they want to sit."
-David Suzuki

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Friday, March 31, 2006 10:01 AM