Sign Up | Log In
GENERAL DISCUSSIONS
More Western than a Wagon Train to the Stars - Spoiler Discussion
Sunday, June 9, 2002 3:52 AM
FERALWANDERER
Sunday, June 9, 2002 2:18 PM
J
Sunday, June 9, 2002 3:06 PM
MOJOECA
Sunday, June 9, 2002 3:12 PM
Sunday, June 9, 2002 3:45 PM
Sunday, June 9, 2002 4:38 PM
RINGWRAITH
Monday, June 10, 2002 11:05 PM
Quote:Originally posted by Ringwraith: As for Firefly people using six-shooters and such, no problem with that here. To me it adds a bit to the charm. Afterall, knives have been around thousands of years and people still use them to kill others, so why not keep around a good ol Smith & Wesson? B]
Tuesday, June 11, 2002 2:59 AM
PANDORA
Quote:Originally posted by feralwanderer: It's all about suspence of disbelief and internally consistency. If no explanation is given or if we see ships are exchanging fire with lasers and autoguns, and yet the gun tech for these guys is circa 1870, I'll watch it (It's JOSS!) but I'll be a little disappointed. Jason Sydney, Australia
Tuesday, June 11, 2002 5:24 AM
ZICSOFT
Quote:Originally posted by mojoeca: After re-reading, I see how I may come off as angry -- I'm not. I just have a very definite POV on sci-fi nitpicking.
Tuesday, June 11, 2002 8:40 AM
Quote:Zicsoft: Well, for some of us, the nitpicking is an essential part of the genre.
Tuesday, June 11, 2002 10:09 AM
Quote:Originally posted by mojoeca: ...I accept that there is a niche (a large one) in sci-fi fandom that demands science fact. That's cool... --- Joe
Tuesday, June 11, 2002 10:55 AM
Quote:Originally posted by J: Quote:Originally posted by mojoeca: ...I accept that there is a niche (a large one) in sci-fi fandom that demands science fact. That's cool... --- Joe SNIP I think it's just the complete absence of anything even resembling genuine hard SF in television that has a portion of fans really wanting something plausible.
Tuesday, June 11, 2002 12:08 PM
Quote:Originally posted by feralwanderer: And from what I recall of this project Joss was shooting for an counter-Star Trek feeling series, which suggests less techno babble, jump suits, rubber foreheads
Quote:and flashy equipment. So I am very curious what the rational he has come up with that makes everything circa 1870 - clothes and guns. For me the rational is a big deal because its so clearly a regressive technological step it begs for an explanation...and a good one at that.
Tuesday, June 11, 2002 12:32 PM
Quote:Originally posted by J: Seriously - I come from a print SF perspective. I watch plenty of media SF but it's an entirely different beast - which isn't of the good, to me.
Wednesday, June 12, 2002 12:05 AM
Quote:Originally posted by Zicsoft: Quote:Originally posted by feralwanderer: And from what I recall of this project Joss was shooting for an counter-Star Trek feeling series, which suggests less techno babble, jump suits, rubber foreheads Not rubber. Latex. :) Quote:and flashy equipment. So I am very curious what the rational he has come up with that makes everything circa 1870 - clothes and guns. For me the rational is a big deal because its so clearly a regressive technological step it begs for an explanation...and a good one at that.
Wednesday, June 12, 2002 6:41 AM
SHUGGIE
Quote:Originally posted by feralwanderer: Perhaps the war dragged for generations and tehc regressed...but the wars of the 20th century would actually suggest the opposite - we had soem of our biggest tech advance spurts then...
Wednesday, June 12, 2002 3:09 PM
NOVAGRASS
Quote:Originally posted by mojoeca: No lasers; the guns shoot bullets. I saw a clip on CNN (Wanda discussing fall lineup) where a gun was fired. --- Joe
Wednesday, June 12, 2002 4:54 PM
Thursday, June 13, 2002 5:50 AM
Thursday, June 13, 2002 6:22 AM
TYMEN
Thursday, June 13, 2002 9:37 AM
Quote:Originally posted by Tymen: Also, since Joss is using the Civil War as one of his influences, it should be noted that one of the reasons the South lost the war was that the North had a superior manufactoring and industrial complex supporting them. Easier access to more weapons and supplies. Hence the access to more primitive technology on the fringe than in the core worlds.
Thursday, June 13, 2002 9:58 AM
Quote:Originally posted by Zicsoft: Anyway, this kind of issue makes Reconstruction a prime model for an "anti-Star Trek" story. Instead of there being a technological fix for every problem, technology is part of the problem.
Thursday, June 13, 2002 9:09 PM
Quote:Originally posted by Pandora: Quote:Originally posted by Zicsoft: Anyway, this kind of issue makes Reconstruction a prime model for an "anti-Star Trek" story. Instead of there being a technological fix for every problem, technology is part of the problem. SNIP It'll be a nice change of pace for the sci-fi genre. Pandora "Logic is a wonderful thing, but it doesn't beat actual thought." -Terry Pratchett, the Last Continent
Friday, June 14, 2002 7:24 AM
Quote:Originally posted by Pandora: Quote:Originally posted by Zicsoft: Anyway, this kind of issue makes Reconstruction a prime model for an "anti-Star Trek" story. Instead of there being a technological fix for every problem, technology is part of the problem. Another really interesting difference between Star Trek (along with other Roddenberry spawn) and Firefly is that Roddenberry's vision of the future was always one in which the Alliance/Federation/Commonwealth/whatever grouping of independent planets was benevolent, positive, and overall what was best for the universe. In Firefly, the Alliance may yet prove to be those things, but that's not the perspective from which Joss is taking us. It seems that the Alliance is a Bad Thing, at least from the view of our heroes, and the view of the future is a little more bleak than the shiny goodness of Mr. Roddenberry's vision. It'll be a nice change of pace for the sci-fi genre. Pandora "Logic is a wonderful thing, but it doesn't beat actual thought." -Terry Pratchett, the Last Continent
Friday, June 14, 2002 8:47 AM
TINYTIMM
Friday, June 14, 2002 8:52 AM
Quote:Originally posted by Shuggie: Technology as the all-pervasive solution to society's problems was a very popular theme in 60's SciFi - something which was mirrored in the attitudes of the time.
Friday, June 14, 2002 9:49 AM
Quote:Originally posted by TinyTimm: A "Colt Peacemaker" is a highly developed piece of technology requiring a skilled gunsmith to properly assemble, time, test and finish. If fixed ammunition is available even a clutz like me with a crude machine shop and a lathe can slap together a submachine gun.
Friday, June 14, 2002 11:02 AM
Quote:Originally posted by TinyTimm: Quote:Originally posted by Shuggie: Technology as the all-pervasive solution to society's problems was a very popular theme in 60's SciFi - something which was mirrored in the attitudes of the time.
Friday, June 14, 2002 1:39 PM
Quote:Originally posted by TinyTimm: Considering the track record for technology in solving problems, and the track record for everything else. I'll stick with technology, even if it is so sophisticated it isn't noticeable, such as super rice.
Friday, June 14, 2002 2:29 PM
Quote:Originally posted by Zicsoft: Quote:Originally posted by TinyTimm: A "Colt Peacemaker" is a highly developed piece of technology requiring a skilled gunsmith to properly assemble, time, test and finish. If fixed ammunition is available even a clutz like me with a crude machine shop and a lathe can slap together a submachine gun. OK, my ignorance of firearms technology is showing. Please be patient with me in the following discussion. SNIP You mentioned "fixed ammunition". Isn't that a pretty sophisticated bit of technology? Easily obtained whever UPS goes. (Which is not everywhere. In central New Guinea, the going rate for local labor is one shotgun shell per person per day.) But how hard would it be to go to a planet with no industry and get everything you need to manufacture it? And as for your machine shop tommy gun. Well, even assuming it didn't have to fire black powder hand loads, and you'd also thought to import the actual machine shop from an industrial planet -- what kind of materials do you need? Hopefully there's some kind of on-planet steel mill, but will it be able to produce the kind of material modern guns are made of?
Saturday, June 15, 2002 12:02 AM
Saturday, June 15, 2002 8:32 AM
Quote:Originally posted by TinyTimm: Most limits on weapons are legal, not technical.
Saturday, June 15, 2002 9:29 AM
Saturday, June 15, 2002 12:51 PM
Saturday, June 15, 2002 12:58 PM
SHAMUS
Saturday, June 15, 2002 1:15 PM
Quote:Originally posted by Shamus: Ok. You got me. Zicsoft, do you ever have anything positive to say, about anything?
Saturday, June 15, 2002 2:18 PM
Quote:Originally posted by feralwanderer: I don't think "fixed ammunition" is that complex. Your talking brass and lead - the use of moulds and simple filing and crimping - not that I have any experience as a gunsmith. Plus you would not be working from scratch, you would recognise the need to bring this technology along, it being as much a survival resource as spacesuits/air tanks, hating, food etc.
Saturday, June 15, 2002 5:18 PM
Quote:Originally posted by Zicsoft: Quote:Originally posted by feralwanderer: I don't think "fixed ammunition" is that complex. Your talking brass and lead - the use of moulds and simple filing and crimping - not that I have any experience as a gunsmith. Plus you would not be working from scratch, you would recognise the need to bring this technology along, it being as much a survival resource as spacesuits/air tanks, hating, food etc. SNIP OK, if you have brass tubing and other brass thingees, plus the right machine tools (and you're right, these will be imported once and used to make more machine tools), you can have fixed ammunition. But where do you get the brass? You have to mine copper and zinc, smelt it, fabricate the tubes... I'm not saying a frontier planet couldn't do this, because I have no idea how hard it is. At a guess, it'd be doable, but not in enough quantity so that everybody can have an Uzi.
Sunday, June 16, 2002 5:06 AM
Sunday, June 16, 2002 5:45 AM
Sunday, June 16, 2002 12:24 PM
Monday, June 17, 2002 12:08 AM
Quote:I dunno how cheap and ubiquitous space ships are in this future. But if they're *really* so, then there's no story here, 'cause the Alliance can use those ships to extend its authority to every inhabited planet.
Monday, June 17, 2002 12:17 AM
Quote:Originally posted by Zicsoft: My opinions come from reading a lot of SF which tries to deal with the problem of keeping technology going at the end of a multi-parsec supply line. Heck you can make a case for industry falling apart simply because you don't have the critical mass of experts to keep it going.
Monday, June 17, 2002 2:01 AM
Quote:Originally posted by Zicsoft: SNIP I doubt if Mal got any mustering out pay. He fought for the Confederacy/Independent Faction, not the Union/Alliance. I dunno how cheap and ubiquitous space ships are in this future. But if they're *really* so, then there's no story here, 'cause the Alliance can use those ships to extend its authority to every inhabited planet. OK, you can build machine guns out of old car parts. But where do you get the parts? From the nearest junkyard? Which is light-years away, in Alliance-controlled territory. And I'm still not convinced you could easily manufacture all those brass casings. I'm not going to pretend to have any real expertise about this. My opinions come from reading a lot of SF which tries to deal with the problem of keeping technology going at the end of a multi-parsec supply line. Heinlein's Tunnel in the Sky and that middle part of Time Enough for Love. S.M. Stirling's recent stuff. There's lots more that I can't remember offhand. Heck you can make a case for industry falling apart simply because you don't have the critical mass of experts to keep it going. That's the premise of Earth Abides and that Terry Nation series, Survivors. In the latter, there's a scene where a character asks if anybody in the room can build a table from scratch. By which she does not mean going to the hardware store and getting tools, nails, and wood, she means cutting down the tree, making it into boards, joining them together, all using things that will still work when the hardware stores have been out of business for a century or so.
Monday, June 17, 2002 11:43 AM
Tuesday, June 18, 2002 2:20 PM
Wednesday, June 19, 2002 8:46 AM
INARASNEWTOY
Wednesday, June 19, 2002 8:47 AM
Wednesday, June 19, 2002 11:33 AM
YOUR OPTIONS
NEW POSTS TODAY
OTHER TOPICS
FFF.NET SOCIAL