River and the Reavers by rainstick

GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

River and the Reavers

POSTED BY: RAINSTICK
UPDATED: Wednesday, August 13, 2008 22:52
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Saturday, August 9, 2008 8:09 AM

I don't know whether this has been raised before but just now, out of nowhere, the similarity between River and the Reavers just struck me.
They're both the result of secret government experiments, and then their names are so alike. I don't believe that is just a coincidence. I am sure that's intentional by Joss. What does he want to say? That an unfettered government or experiments done without any consideration for the side effects are affecting the individual (River) just as much as the society (Reavers). maybe i am just repeating old stuff here, but I just wanted to post it anyway

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Sunday, August 10, 2008 3:49 AM

MER

Never thought of that...hmm.

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Sunday, August 10, 2008 4:04 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

Nope, not bringing up old stuff, as far as I've ever heard.

That's a very interesting idea, too. And it makes sense. And Joss rarely just puts anything in for the hell of it. It ALL has a deeper meaning or connection.

So, essentially, the Reavers are the result of Alliance meddling gone horribly wrong, and River is the result of Alliance meddling gone horribly... right! She's everything they ever hoped she would be, but unfortunately for the Alliance, she has a mind of her own. And, just as with the Reavers, there are always those dratted unintended consequences.

Good catch - I'm intrigued by this line of reasoning.

Mike

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Sunday, August 10, 2008 5:12 AM

FARFLY

For what it's worth...

Main Entry:
reave Listen to the pronunciation of reave
Pronunciation:
\ˈrēv\
Function:
verb
Inflected Form(s):
reaved or reft Listen to the pronunciation of reft \ˈreft\; reav·ing
Etymology:
Middle English reven, from Old English rēafian; akin to Old High German roubōn to rob, Latin rumpere to break
Date:
before 12th century

intransitive verb: plunder, robtransitive verb1archaic a (1): rob, despoil (2): to deprive one of b: seize2archaic : to carry or tear away
— reav·er noun

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Sunday, August 10, 2008 6:51 AM

RAINSTICK

Thanks for that.
Anyway, the name "Reavers" has been given to them after they turned savage by the people on the outer planets because it describes what the "Reavers" do.
River, however, was given her name by her parents before anything happened to her.
Etymologically I don't think there is a connection between "river" and "reave". There's the superficial connection in sound and spelling. However, and I might be overanalyzing here, a river fits into the category of still waters that run deep, which is surely an apt description for Ms Tam. There's another interesting contrast, I think. River's madness only surfaces occasionally and is hidden from us a lot of time. We don't know what she is going to do, but we know for sure that someone has done something to her.
With the Reavers, we know exactly what they are going to do ("rape us to death, eat our flesh, sow our skins into their clothing..."), their behaviour is entirely predictable, but until the end of the BDM we don't know what/who caused it and see the characters guessing.

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Sunday, August 10, 2008 7:00 AM

WYTCHCROFT

the sound of River and Reaver is played upon pretty strongly in the series - and the BDM.

(There's a long thread somewhere in the archive here
but there's some discussion too in Finding Serenity and Serenity Found, great books.)

also check out the meaning of TAM:

http://visiblemantra.org/whitetara-mandala.html

(a friend of mine just got it tatooed)

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Sunday, August 10, 2008 7:10 AM

FUTUREMRSFILLION

Point of interest - I have said it before - but I am CERTAIN that the reaver that River "sees" in the BDM during the heist IS River.

I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

FORSAKEN original

"Yes-- Cheney are Bush are men of peace-- this we know. It is terrible that their good deeds are being thwarted, misinterpreted-- so much so that they are forced to direct others to torture prisoners." Professor Michael Levine

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Sunday, August 10, 2008 7:24 AM

WYTCHCROFT

Quote:
Originally posted by FutureMrsFIllion:
Point of interest - I have said it before - but I am CERTAIN that the reaver that River "sees" in the BDM during the heist IS River.

Is she still singing with them though? That's the real question...

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Monday, August 11, 2008 11:23 AM

RAINSTICK

Incidentally, I just rewatched "Safe" and was surprised how quickly young River, though in play, suggests to Simon: "We got no supplies. We have to resort to cannibalism."
It would be exaggerated to imply any real connection or similarity between the Reavers and River at this young age, but I think Joss tries to give us a small hint here that River is not just a nice and innocent little girl. Even though it is just part of a fantasy, Joss shows what a ruthlessly efficient person River can be and eventually becomes. For her cannibalism is a rational conclusion to ensure survival, while the Reaver's cannibalism is just the pure and vicious instinct of a predator.

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Monday, August 11, 2008 1:46 PM

INSTANTKARMAGIRL

Yeah, I'm toying with that idea in a fic. If you watch the R.Tam sessions on YouTube, she mentions the PAX, as if the Alliance gave it to her...

I *love* the idea....And so does my fanfiction.

~**~
"How come you're flying about with us brigands? I mean, shouldn't you be off bringing religiosity to the Fuzzie-Wuzzies or some such?"~Cap'n Mal

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Tuesday, August 12, 2008 1:44 PM

SHEPARDROY

Remember River's memories of the Reavers "are not her's" ... meaning she got them from the people who experienced it ... and it was so horrible that it imprinted River ... (being the Shepard that I am ... many of you have the memories and histories of other's bad time placed upon you ... they see you as connected to it ... or you heard of the bad times so often you "feel" them ... peace be upon and in you my child) ... Shepard Roy (Prof7@aol.com)

Shepard Roy (Prof7@aol.com)

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Tuesday, August 12, 2008 11:05 PM

SHINYGOODGUY

Yes, River is an empath, as well as a reader, brought on by the tampering Allaince. Her abilities were "released" and enhanced by the Alliance so much so that she could "feel" what others were feeling.

Remember in OiS she could actually feel the passion between Wash and Zoe. Although she could not make sense of it - she could see what the others were thinking. And, I believe she was just scratching the surface to this new found ability.
Her parents were somewhat indifferent to her and she became introverted.

With the Alliance torture came a new way of understanding the world around her - "Also, I could kill you with my brain." I agree that Joss's use of River and the Reavers was not a coincedence at all. They had some unintended results, but it wasn't until the BDM that she came into some control over her actions. Which was, BTW, on Miranda where the reavers first orginated. Everything comes full circle with Joss.

Shiny! Let's be bad guys!

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Tuesday, August 12, 2008 11:09 PM

SHINYGOODGUY

Yes there is definitely a connection, one that's not readily visible at first glance.

Good pick up.

Shiny! Let's be bad guys!

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Wednesday, August 13, 2008 10:52 PM

SHEPARDROY

I think River's comment "I could kill you with my brain" was meant to be a joke ... the joke is that Jayne does not know what her abilities are and it freaks him out. Jayne is gullible (like when he thought the "safe word" would put him to sleep too).

Peace, Shepard Roy

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