Mandel Production art & the One System/ Many Systems debate by LupinAddams

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Mandel Production art & the One System/ Many Systems debate

POSTED BY: LUPINADDAMS
UPDATED: Thursday, July 15, 2004 02:04
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Wednesday, July 14, 2004 4:26 AM

Fellow Browncoats,

I know this link has been mentioned before, but I think it's worth pointing out one interesting point... that there is a map of the Alliance worlds which seems to show at least 3 different star systems - but the currency seems to show a single system!!
So which is it, do we think?
Go check it out - bottom left and right respectively.

http://buffy.nu/article.php3?id_article=5454
though originally from:
http://www.geoffreymandel.com/main.cgi?id=1

"You are what you do."
Andrew Vacchs

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Wednesday, July 14, 2004 7:14 AM

RANGER

Hmmm... Looks like at least 6 stars based on the luminocity of the map, and if you look at the planet guide above it you can see background colors around the planets, presumably identifying which system they are in (but that is just a guess on my part). Wish I could get the original source page to load, probably a much clearer image.

Traveller, if you go to Sparta, tell them you have seen us lying here as the Law commands.

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Wednesday, July 14, 2004 7:18 AM

JCKNIFE

Um...why is there a tiny Homer Simpson head in the lower-right corner of the top-right panel?!?

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Wednesday, July 14, 2004 7:31 AM

DECKROID

My thoughts:

The map shows the Alliance Core Worlds... also, there looks to be more than just 3 systems. Count the suns and look at the wee dots next to them.

The currency shows the Alliance Home System... the one they first came to and settled. It wouldnt make sense to try and terraform everything at once. Too much resources, as we learned in the game Masters of Orion II.

Oh, and it's not Homer Simpson's head. Its a "Mr. Sparkle" placement ad. In the future, all companies will be owned by one gigantic corp (Blue Sun) and they will place many ads in one to save money and to show all their products. Now, since Blue Sun aquired Mr. Sparkle a few years back, they have been placing their logo on many different ads. (<--- Gotta be into the Simpsons to get this joke.)

I call her "Vera"

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Wednesday, July 14, 2004 7:45 AM

EST120

Quote:
Originally posted by JCKnife:
Um...why is there a tiny Homer Simpson head in the lower-right corner of the top-right panel?!?

actually, that is mr. sparkle. the japanese dish detergent that pledges to "banish dirt to the land of wind and ghosts".

honestly. this is how it reads in the episode. i swear!

"i can't comprehend the ways that i miss you, they come to light in my mistakes."
-neko case

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Wednesday, July 14, 2004 7:58 AM

DECKROID

Here is the Mr. Sparkle ad...

A housewife in her kitchen blows a whistle, bringing Mr. Sparkle to life off of his box. He calls to her.

MR. SPARKLE:
I'm disrespectful to dirt! Can you see I
am serious?

Mr. Sparkle hovers over her dirty dishes, releasing sparkles over them. The dishes' grime disappears. Mr. Sparkle floats to the living room, where he bounces over a baby's xylophone. He then appears underwater, where three women are dancing.

MR. SPARKLE:
Get out of my way, all of you! This is no
place for loafers. Join me or die. Can you do any less?

The women stop dancing.

THE WOMEN:
What a brave corporate logo! I
accept the challenge of "Mr. Sparkle."

WOMAN I:
Awsoma power!

Mr. Sparkle blows magic dust over the girls as a graphic of a drumming monkey toy hovers in the upper left of the screen. The dust turns the girls into blue Sumos. The scene changes to a reporter interviewing a two-headed cow.

REPORTER:
Any plans for the summer?

Mr. Sparkle appears and shatters the cow. It's disembodied eyes blink at him. The scene changes to Mr. Sparkle coming at us from an orange background.

MR. SPARKLE:
For lucky best wash, use Mr. Sparkle!

I call her "Vera"

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Wednesday, July 14, 2004 10:15 AM

GUNRUNNER

Is it just me or does everyone want to print out a few of those Alliance 100 Credit Bills and see if any stores accept them?

Maybe the Alliance bill could be the back and the one on this page ( http://www.geoffreymandel.com/main.cgi?id=21 ) could be the front?

The Firefly CCG Yahoo Group:
http://groups.yahoo.com/groups/FFCCG
The Firefly CCG Forum:
http://s8.invisionfree.com/FFCCG/
My Other Site:
http://www.geocities.com/billds9/

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Wednesday, July 14, 2004 10:32 AM

MER

*laughs* I don't know if it'll work, but it's worth trying. They find out it's a fake then tell them it's from Serenity. That'll get their interest moving (to the movie hopifully)

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Wednesday, July 14, 2004 10:56 AM

KOZURE

I haven't really chimed in on the one-system vs. multiple system debate, but in a nutshell, I believe going with a single system would be pretty tricky to justify from a scientific standpoint. I've always liked the fact that Firefly treats science further to the "hard" science side of sci-fi (where 2001 might get a 9 out of 10, for example) rather than the Star Warsy loud space explosions and light sabre school of "soft" science.

Not that I have anything against "soft" science sci-fi, but it was nice to have a show where things like oxygen, momentum and vaccuum played important roles in the plot from time to time.

I'm no expert, but I've never really seen any system models where the "habitable" zone for human life was more than an orbit or two wide. Even if you start throwing in odd wildcards like binary (or trinary) star systems and gas giants giving off radiant heat or causing tidal force geothermic heat, I just don't buy one system having more than one or two (three at the absolute outside) habitable planets (even marginally), and it's well established that there are many different habitable worlds/moons in the Firefly 'Verse (Sihnon, Londinium, Ariel, Bellerophon, Whitefall, Osiris, Newhall, Verbena, St. Albans, Persephone, Georgia etc. etc.) - by habitable, I mean able to walk about without breathing apparatus or protective clothing and grow crops, etc.

Once again, I'm not arguing that Firefly represents super-accurate science, but certainly my respect for the series' take on science would ratchet down a few notches if it turned out it was a single system.

Kozure the Kamikaze Highlander

Proud Citizen of Canada-That-Was

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Wednesday, July 14, 2004 6:26 PM

RATNUT12

Just some things i noticed about the star chart.

1) It is set on a grid 10 x 10 = 100 boxes. Perhaps each box equals one sector?
2) Vector paths all appear to go from Sun to Sun. By this I count 10+ suns. Some objects appear to lie along the vector paths so I'm unsure if these should be counted or not.
3) Four of the suns have elliptical paths around them indicating multiple habitable planets. If you look at the Worlds of the Alliance chart it has four different bands of color. Perhaps each color corresponds to a different system. Also on the WotA chart are six large planets not in a color band. These could be planets from a sun with a single habitable planet. Six + Four = 10 suns.
The Three planets in the upper right corner of the WotA identified by only a single name seem to be the inconsistency in this.
4) Judging by the large insignia in the middle there are perhaps Four "Core" planets. The big blue planet in the center of the insignia also appears on the currency so perhaps it is the "capitol" planet.

Just something to inspire further thought and ponderances.

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Wednesday, July 14, 2004 7:53 PM

PERSON

I'm not 100% sure about this, but in that episode with the reavers Mal says something about them living in the edge of something, and I think it was the galaxy.. Cause living on the edge of the system doesn't sound very much.. Crazy?..
And anyway, if it's just one system, what stops the alliance from taking a buncha ships and mowing everything down? I mean, it has limits..
The whole one system idea doesn't make sense.. It just makes you think you're very smart figuring it out.

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Wednesday, July 14, 2004 8:13 PM

HORRID

how it looks to me )and I have no idea if this works scientifically) is that it is multiple systems that are in orbit of one really gigantic star. If our solar system orbits the center of the galaxy I guess it's semi plausible that multiple star systems could orbit a giant star. it just has an extra wheel within the wheel so to speak

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Wednesday, July 14, 2004 10:58 PM

SIKKUKUT

I continue to support the multiple-star system/star cluster theory, which this supports. Doesn't support it exclusively, mind you, since this is pretty open to interpretation, but does support it.

Kozure, I fully agree with you about the science of Firefly. Other than gravity control, which you basically need to make a TV show set in space, the science is all quite within the realm of the possible. The habitable zone issue is exactly why I started thinking about multiple stars... but faster than light travel doesn't seem any better, does it?

Thus, I'm pretty convinced that the evidence indicates a number of stars in close proximity to one another-- close enough to be considered part of a single, multi-star system, but far enough apart that they don't muck with the orbits of each other's planets.

Horrid, as I understand it a multiple star system could include any number of stars in all sorts of configurations. However, I have no idea if any star is big enough for other mid-range stars to orbit like that, and such a star would be a poor choice to colonize near in any case.

As I look at it, that's a lot of stars for one system. Whether a system or a cluster, though, I think it very unlikely that Serenity travels faster than light.

____________________________
"You're mean. Firefly's making me reconsider my lifelong devotion to Star Trek." --My mother

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Thursday, July 15, 2004 1:42 AM

SHINYHAPPYKLIN

Quote:
Originally posted by Kozure:
I've always liked the fact that Firefly treats science further to the "hard" science side of sci-fi (where 2001 might get a 9 out of 10, for example) rather than the Star Warsy loud space explosions and light sabre school of "soft" science.

Not that I have anything against "soft" science sci-fi, but it was nice to have a show where things like oxygen, momentum and vaccuum played important roles in the plot from time to time.

Great Point....in fact, it was the fact that there was NO sound on the space scenes that really won my husband and I over to the series ("At last! A show that respects intelligence!")

"We gotta go to that crappy town where I'M a hero..."

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Thursday, July 15, 2004 2:04 AM

GORAMSHINY

Don't know if anyones mentioned the 'lines' linking the planets and such like.

Now do those indicate majour trade routes? alliance patrols or, possibly, some sort of jumpgate/point tech?

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