Items I've wondered about. by JontheBrowncoat

GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

Items I've wondered about.

POSTED BY: JONTHEBROWNCOAT
UPDATED: Sunday, August 22, 2004 00:14
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Monday, August 2, 2004 1:20 AM

While doing a google search, found a link: http://www.tvtome.com/tvtome/servlet/GoofsGuide/showid-7097/War_Storie
s/ that has some questions/observations that seem to be unanswered. I've seen some of these posted, other not. Anybody have another take on them?

take me out, to the black...

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Monday, August 2, 2004 2:10 AM

JAYNEZTOWN

Firefly - Goofs and Nitpicks Guide
ok this site has a bone to pick with firefly while we must make proper excuses

what fun

The Train Job

terraformed - Maybe this will change in future episodes, but all the planets we see in this episode (including the intro and the opening credits) are dusty and dry and kinda desert-like

answer

Yep that's right turning an ugly planet into something habitable ain't easy even in the year 2500, this ain't star trek we can't just create a planet in a hologram deck or beam me up replicator machine or what star trek gizmos there are.
Terra-forming is tuff, Kind of like the trouble Earth-folk had when they wanted to grow stuff in the Nevada desert/wasteland..just because they know how it's done don't mean its going to be any easier.
Terraforming isn't some magic wand, even after using our best giant equipment and massive machines best we can hope for is a habitable and dusty old planet.

Bushwhacked - bad odor ...why no smell

answer

Well if they weren't dead too long then they won't stink too bad, plus the ship seemed kind of cold so maybe it just would have smelled a tiny bit like a fridge with a lot of meat in it

happened to the ship's log ?

They don't give a damn about the captains log..suspicion now is of reaver fever so we don't need any star-date log to spell this one out..and number 1 priority is getting out of reaver trouble if it comes round

jayne should have sold out simon and river he's a dumb mean merc afterall

answer

So why doesn't Jayne sell Simon and River - Jayne is a angry, funny, awkward man and has a little traitor in his heart..but only if the price is right. I guess the cops on that other Ariel place made him a much better offer

Mrs. Reynolds

- The Academy we were told that River escaped from the Academy. This episode Inara says that Saffron must have received companion training at "the Academy." The way everyone talks about it in capital letters, "The Academy" seems to be a single well-known place...that trains both psychics and companions?

answer

Yep that's right let's just call it hitler school, is said to produce some fine nice stuff such as scientists and good athletes that go to the olympics
but they also study all other evil ideas like the means of torture, occult ideas and all kinds of killing and bombing..typical alliance schooling

Jaynestown

what is "Port Control"? The Serenity landed in the middle of a big open field -

Answer
I guess it could mean air-space or aeronautical port area, shipping region or something like that. Let me give an example
you get an aircraft flying by florida..well even if its going to crash land in a field in flordia far away from the airport
everyone still wants to know what you are up to, radar and GPS will be tracking that baby and you're still gonna need permission from the authority.

You can't take a shotgun bullet for someone. The blast is too powerful. The bullet would have gone right through the guy and hit Jayne.

answer

damn straight you can't take a hit up-close that is , from close range a shotgun will put a hole in steel
but this guy could be pretty far away and as you know the further back a shotgun is fired the less power it has plus those shotguns don't look too high-tech kind of like some weaker home-made job

Ok that's all I'm doing for today

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Monday, August 2, 2004 2:15 AM

LTNOWIS

Many of these seem kind of silly and easily explainable. Like this one:

Quote:
You can't take a shotgun bullet for someone. The blast is too powerful. The bullet would have gone right through the guy and hit Jayne.

It was a bunch of pellets, not a slug! There are only a few that raise real questions.

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Monday, August 2, 2004 4:33 AM

NEDWARD

Quote:
Originally posted by JaynezTown:
we were told that River escaped from the Academy. This episode Inara says that Saffron must have received companion training at "the Academy." The way everyone talks about it in capital letters, "The Academy" seems to be a single well-known place...that trains both psychics and companions?

No, two different institutions. "Whore Academy" is presumably on Sinon, where they make Inaras. The academy where River was sent is... where? Presumably not Osiris, or Simon wouldn't have been on Persephone. I vote Persephone, as Simon's demeanour in "Serenity" suggests Serenity is the first boat he's smuggled River onto. Anyone actually know? (I have no access to my DVD this week.)

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Monday, August 2, 2004 5:00 AM

WITLESSCHUM

Quote:
When the Serenity peeps are hiding out in the cavern, Mal asks "What if they come down for a look?" Wash replies "She ain't a small ship," implying that the Alliance ship is too big to come down in the canyon.

I took was to mean that Serenity 'ain't a small' ship so if the attacker came down for a look, they'd likely seee her.

Quote:
So how'd the Reavers track Serenity to Whitefall? We're told it's the same ship that went past them aerlier, when they weren't close to Whitefall. So...how'd the Reavers know Mal & Crew would be there? Or did they just get lucky?

They made a very big deal when they encountered the Reavers with not changing course. If they were already on course for Whitefall, which seems likely, then they could look down that bearing on their star charts.

Quote:
Mal says that there's a lot of planets that won't let a ship land on their planet if they don't have a "quality Companion." It's been mentioned before that Companions are rare, so how the heck do planets trade with each other?

I'd think planets would be happy for you to land if you have something to trade, but they might ask you what that was. As smugglers, Serenity can't always declare to the authorities what her cargo is. They could just lie and say they have a load of perfectly legal widgets, but then they deal with widget tariffs and such. There's not likely to be a tariff on Companions.

Quote:
The crew seems to know all about Niska's reputation when he first met them. Here they're pretty close to his space station when they make the drug deal, and they don't seem to be worried at all about their proximity to him or the chance he might do something. In fact, Mal even thinks it's going to be an easy run.

They did have their rendevous on the far side of the planet, at least. Hard to see through a planet.

Dan

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Monday, August 2, 2004 5:31 AM

SUPERFLY

In no way am I trying to get defensive. I think it's great to want to rationalize events on a Sci-Fi show. Helps suspention of disbelief and makes the whole experiance better. But, does it seem that some of those questions could have been answered with just a little thought? Or maybe, just a little more attention?

1.
"What the heck does the opening narration mean? So, they found a new solar system and hundreds of new earths? So are they all in one solar system, or what?"

ok, that was explained at the dinner table, less than 20 minutes into the show. These are not "new earths". They were uninhabitable planets that were terraformed.

2.
"Maybe this will change in future episodes, but all the planets we see in this episode ... are dusty and dry and kinda desert-like."

Some one got this already, and I like the answer. But how about, um... it's a western? Can't it be ok to simple take creative licence for ambience?

3.
"So what happened to the ship's log they found? First Mal and Zoe find it, start examining it, and talk like it's going to have some kind of big revelation, but then they forget about it entirely."

It's called building suspence. A long and rich legacy of building suspence exists in film. People just don't seem to want to use it that much anymore. Instead, we seem to have moved towards wanting everything explained down to the last detail.

One of the things I really love about Firefly and Joss Whedon is the seemingly complete absence of the need to explain everything to the audience as it happens. Let 'em squirm for a little while. Once an element has finnished it's purpouse (like the log to build tention), it really can be forgotton. But let's just try this one on for size. They read the log, but there was nothing of interest in it. Mal said whatever happened here happened quick. The last staticy entry was probbably just that, or half a second of footage before it got cut off. If the log doesn't have any revealing info, it doens't have to be brought back up.

4.
"So why doesn't Jayne give up Simon and River to the Alliance?"

One, I happen to believe he already tried that, in the pilot episode. I think he gave the law man the knife he used to free himself. But, beyond that, I think the Alliance commander had a good point. He said, "That's a very loyal crew you have there." Look at what Jayne's life must have been like before he met Mal. Running with those three bandits we saw in OOG sure didn't help his pretty. Jayne knows he's got a good deal on that ship, and I think like everyone else aboard, he's starting to feel like it's home and the people there are family. 'Course, he just can't help himself in Ariel. Especial after River attacks him.

5.
"Where is the survivor hiding in the common room?"

*Sigh*... under the table.

6.
"Where do the Alliance soldiers disappear to when the survivor attacks?"

*Sigh*... they were there. They just weren't in frame.

7.
"The town seems to be a closely-knit kinda community. And yet no one there seems to take it amiss when Saffron, a stranger, wanders up and "proposes" to Mal. If she had stayed in town for a while to establish her credentials, how long was she there in town while waiting for a ship to come by she could set up for a hijack?"

We know our little Saffron is a clever and manipulative person. She could have been there for a whole of three days, built a cover story, lied to everyone there, and watched carefully from the sidelines to make sure nothing went amiss. Our girl pays close attention to details.

8.
"They never really explain how the townspeople know who Jayne was when he dumped the money. He showed up, he robbed from the magistrate, he flew off, and dumped some money. When they'd ever meet him, get his name, or know what he looked like to make a statue of him?"

Why does this have to be explained? I can come up with 250 million answers to this question off the top of my head. ahem... he and Stitch hung out in Mudderland while they were planning the job. Used people in the community to get info. Had his face showing when he threw the crate out (he was only about 30 feet up. The guys hard not to recognize, being 6'4" and all). etc. etc. etc.

9.
"Stitch walks upright pretty well, and manhandles Simon pretty readily, despite being locked up in a cramped box for four years. Did the Magister let him have daily exercise periods and all, or what?"

I have two answers to this. One is, sure, why not? and Two is, ain't it amazing what hate will let ya do?

Ok, guys... I'm done here. If it's getting old for me, I know it's got to be getting old for you. So, I go back to my original question. Couldn't most, if not all, of these questions be answered with just a little though or attention?

"Also, I can kill you with my brain."

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Monday, August 2, 2004 9:38 AM

SOUPCATCHER

I think you've hit at least one nail on the head, Superfly, when you state that one of the strengths of Firefly is that not every single detail is outlined for the audience.

I'm not really familiar with tvtome but after looking at their ratings for the episodes I'm less inclined to give them the benefit of the doubt (I mean come on, 3/6 rating for Out of Gas?!?). My sneaking suspicion is that these reviews and most of the nitpicks were compiled from the original F*x run and not updated based on the DVD release (the nitpicks for the three unaired episodes then were just tacked on). As we all know, and as is well demonstrated by Entilzha's updating of their reviews, the show as seen on F*x is slightly weaker than the show as seen on DVD.

That said, I think that the majority of these nitpicks or goofs are just plain inconsequential and fall under one of the following categories:
1. Things that were not explicitly shown in the episodes but left to the inference of the audience (example: Port Control in Jaynestown - just because we don't see Wash on the radio talking with someone to get clearance and find out where they were to land doesn't mean it didn't happen. It's just not important to the story).
2. Things that are the by-product of making a story for television (example: Cows not mooing during Mal and Inara's scene at the end of Shindig - Well it's kind of hard to hear the lines if you insert a bunch of cow noise. What's more important, the conversation or the cows?).
3. Well fleshed out characters are not perfect in their recollections and occasionally will make erroneous statements or stretch the truth.
4. Actual errors (example: Mal's damaged ear changing sides of his head).
5. Worthwhile questions

The goofs are goofs, any television show has them. The majority of the nitpicks can be explained away by using your imagination. Very few of the items in the list are really worthwhile questions (in my opinion).

I shaved off my beard for you, devil woman!

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Monday, August 2, 2004 10:27 AM

KNIBBLET

Quote:
Originally posted by nedward:
The academy where River was sent is... where? Presumably not Osiris, or Simon wouldn't have been on Persephone.

I believe the academy was on Osiris - how else would the family have heard of it? They'd never have sent their daughter to the ass end of the 'verse for a school.

Also, it would be logical that the blue hands and Blue Sun would be located on the central planets. The power is in the Core.

Simon's underground friends shipped River in the crate to Persephone. He picked up his sister-sicle and boarded Serenity headed whereever it was going to originally go.

"Just keep walkin, preacher man."

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Monday, August 2, 2004 12:23 PM

KARENKAY99

Quote:
Originally posted by Superfly:
One of the things I really love about Firefly and Joss Whedon is the seemingly complete absence of the need to explain everything to the audience as it happens.

i totally agree. i was watching stargate the other day and carter went into a 30 description of why the lead in an asteroid and the magnets in their boots would keep them from floating and i'm thinking, ok i don't really care and do you really have to explain this to o'neal and company, coz why don't they already know? it would be like me telling someone i'm going make a phone call and taking 30 seconds to describe how the telephone works (assuming i know how coz i don't really, but that's my point, i can use the phone very well, thank you, so why care how? :)

so i was thinking what would joss do if he felt the need to explain this.
o'neal: what keeps me from floating around?
carter: do we really have time for a physics lesson? magnets. lead.
o'neal: oh

i really like stargate though. and the new atlantis one too. even though they do things that annoy me sometimes. i'm pretty new to them and have the dvr set to record them all. i have a lot of catching up to do.

"They say the snow on the roof is too heavy. They say the ceiling will cave in. His brains are in terrible danger."

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Monday, August 2, 2004 2:07 PM

While we're on the subject of goofs (or lack thereof), there are two fun ones in 'Serenity' (well, three really, but Joss admits to one in the commentary).

Serenity has just landed on Persephone, and Wash is jogging back to the mule after Mal tells him to grab any supplies they're low on and fuel her up. The camera moves to focus on Kaylee and Mal talking about compression coils, then back to the cargo bay door to see Wash driving the mule out. At this point, you can see someone running out of the shot and hiding inside the cargo bay.

Wash then tells Zoe to take care and she says she will. He drives off. But he's actually being pulled off by a hand. Perhaps it's Thing from the Adam's Family?

The third one (admitted to by Joss) is, of course, that after they escape from the reavers, there's a shot of Alan Tudyk where he's pretending to hold the steering controls; in actual fact, there's nothing in his hands.

Funny stuff.

JK

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Wednesday, August 4, 2004 10:48 PM

GAVIDA

Since this is one of my absolute favourite episodes, I would like to throw in my 2 cents as well

Quote:
8.
"They never really explain how the townspeople know who Jayne was when he dumped the money. He showed up, he robbed from the magistrate, he flew off, and dumped some money. When they'd ever meet him, get his name, or know what he looked like to make a statue of him?"

Why does this have to be explained? I can come up with 250 million answers to this question off the top of my head. ahem... he and Stitch hung out in Mudderland while they were planning the job. Used people in the community to get info. Had his face showing when he threw the crate out (he was only about 30 feet up. The guys hard not to recognize, being 6'4" and all). etc. etc. etc.

Since the Magistrate of the town knew very well who stole from him (at least after the capture of Stitch) he surely made some kind of Wanted-Poster and showed it around in town. Since the people there knew Jayne's name from him hanging around there they now knew name and face of the "Hero of Canton"

Quote:

9.
"Stitch walks upright pretty well, and manhandles Simon pretty readily, despite being locked up in a cramped box for four years. Did the Magister let him have daily exercise periods and all, or what?"

I have two answers to this. One is, sure, why not? and Two is, ain't it amazing what hate will let ya do?

On the other hand: Being a mudder seems to be a taxing job, like some hard training.
It is not said that Stitch had to stay in the Box the whole time, so it might as well be that he came out every day for some hard labour and was put back into the box in the evening.
The Magistrate of the town surely had an interest in keeping him alive and healthy to work off the damage he did (and probably to have Stitch suffer as much as possible for robbing him)

So Stitch is bodily fit because of the work as forced labourer (which is not shown or explained due to too little time in an episode and the fact that pulling him from the box in the evening is a nice surprise thingy)

Just my take on this, hehe

Keep flying,
Gavida

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Thursday, August 5, 2004 4:33 AM

RHYMEPHILE

Acutally, a lot of these "nitpicks" can be found in the episode recaps at Television Without Pity, and I think whoever edited the TV Tome page may have taken liberties with some of the items that were noticed.

Also, since TV Tome is written by fans, by and large most of the time there are glaring errors on any page, from the names of characters, to spelling (my pet peeve with the site), to actual episode summaries. Read the descriptions there with a healthy distrust of its contents.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Revenge!"

Vince in Rex the Runt

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Tuesday, August 17, 2004 6:34 AM

JAYNEZTOWN

Quote:
Originally posted by JK:
The third one (admitted to by Joss) is, of course, that after they escape from the reavers, there's a shot of Alan Tudyk where he's pretending to hold the steering controls; in actual fact, there's nothing in his hands.

Funny stuff.

JK

That's a good one !

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Tuesday, August 17, 2004 8:51 AM

LTNOWIS

Quote:
So Stitch is bodily fit because of the work as forced labourer

Good idea! I think that's the first really rational explanation of this.

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Tuesday, August 17, 2004 11:13 AM

LTNOWIS

Quote:
Originally posted by nedward:
The academy where River was sent is... where? Presumably not Osiris, or Simon wouldn't have been on Persephone.

I believe the academy was on Osiris - how else would the family have heard of it? They'd never have sent their daughter to the ass end of the 'verse for a school.

Well, Persephone certainly has an upper class, and I think communications/travels between worlds are pretty common, at least for the rich. But I don't think the Academy was on Persephone. More likely, after the rescue, the people helping him dropped him off on Persephone, warning him not to return to Osiris.

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Tuesday, August 17, 2004 3:48 PM

THEGREYJEDI

Quote:
Originally posted by JK:

The third one (admitted to by Joss) is, of course, that after they escape from the reavers, there's a shot of Alan Tudyk where he's pretending to hold the steering controls; in actual fact, there's nothing in his hands.

Funny stuff.

JK

I had always thought that scene was just Wash doing a funny thing. Sort of a 'yes, you can let go now'/hands stuck in their position kind of thing. Never thought about it as an error.

--------------------------------------------------
ZOE: Now we have a boatful of citizens right on top of our... stolen cargo. That's a fun mix.
MAL: Ain't no way in the 'verse they could find that compartment, even--Even if they were lookin' for it.
ZOE: Why not?
MAL: 'Cause... ?
ZOE: Oh yeah, this is gonna go great.
MAL: If anyone gets nosy, just, you know...shoot 'em.
ZOE: Shoot 'em?
MAL: Politely.

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Sunday, August 22, 2004 12:14 AM

Well, I only noticed it because Joss points it out in the commentary, and he and Nathan have a good giggle at how they managed to get away with it.

JK

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