Crusade/Firefly and the suits by Misguided By Voices

GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

Crusade/Firefly and the suits

POSTED BY: MISGUIDED BY VOICES
UPDATED: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 13:35
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Monday, August 9, 2004 11:21 AM

Quote from JMS about what killed Crusade (and before those that don't like it chime in - some of the problems with it were caused by what is referred to below - some was the series finding its feet)

"TNT guys: "We found out, we did a research survey, a five year long study of our ratings. This was just after Crusade got going. And, we found out that the audience for B5 came for B5, then left afterward. And the TNT regular viewers didn't stick around for B5 and went away and came back. B5 wasn't adding to our viewer base." So...they decided to pull the plug on Crusade for that reason and use the money to buy another show. But they couldn't say that because they'd be in breach of contract with Warner Bros. So their job was to make it impossible for us..."

Sounds a little like Firefly - IIRC, there were stories about Angel not getting a good syndication audience a little while ago, that which is the gold of any TV show. We may find out a little way down the line that this played a part in the decision to pull the plug on a Joss Whedon show.

"I threw up on your bed"

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Monday, August 9, 2004 11:35 AM

GHOULMAN

Hmm. Good point but something is buggin' me.

Seems to me the agreegious manner in which Joss and his incredible team of creators were treated by the FOX "grey flannel suits" must be a sign of a far more insidious story behind the Firefly cancellation.

Personally - I gotta wonder if the Neo-conservative Nazis at FOX just didn't like Joss. Maybe when they saw those giant Corporate Ships in Firefly they desided the advertizers would hate it. PErhaps they just hated a lefty like Joss being successful. It's a rather common theme these days.

After all, we now live in a time as conservative as the 50s. Except for the Net porn.

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Monday, August 9, 2004 5:09 PM

SARAHETC

And thank god that we do! All my poodle skirts were getting moth-eaten in storage.

(Ever hear of the Beat movement? Also, you do realize that Nazi is an abbreviation of "national socialist" right? Socialist as in far, far, far to the left.)

I'm a dying breed who still believes, haunted by American dreams. ---Neko Case

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Monday, August 9, 2004 5:20 PM

SIKKUKUT

Welllll now, while I don't buy into conspiracies concerning the liberal media OR the conservative media, I do have to point out that while Nazi is short for "National Socialist," the movement had everything to do with nationalism and nothing to do with socialism. I have always heard it depicted as the "far right." The interesting thing, of course, is that Communist Russia was the end result of "far left..." Not really any better. Food for thought, in any case.

At the same time, I can certainly see how F*X, which is pretty conservative, might have realized that some of Joss's ideas might piss off their investors and potential advertising clients, but... one always wonders why these networks have to work so hard to run these shows into the ground, when they put them on the air in the first place and they can take them right off again without so much as a whupsie-daisy. Conspiracy hardly seems necessary.

And of course, although Firefly's message on religion is unquestionably liberal, one of the low reviews on Amazon.com actually condemned Firefly as right-wing propaganda, based on the small, gun-toting bunch of freedom lovers trying to buck the federal government.

Not to say that person's right, by any means, but it just goes to show... you'll see what you see. Not even what you want to, just what you personally are primed to see. The nature of perception, I guess.

____________________________
"You're mean. Firefly's making me reconsider my lifelong devotion to Star Trek." --My mother

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Monday, August 9, 2004 6:01 PM

THUNDAR

Give me a break.... If F*X is so friggin conservative, WTF are all those stupid ass reality shows doing on there? Not to mention all the other drivel.

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Monday, August 9, 2004 11:20 PM

3OF19

They're there to dumb down the audience and soften them up for the right-wing propaganda on Fox News.

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Monday, December 27, 2004 1:45 AM

FARSCAPEPKWARS

Quote:
Originally posted by 3of19:
They're there to dumb down the audience and soften them up for the right-wing propaganda on Fox News.

keepin' the sheep in check ?

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Monday, December 27, 2004 7:27 AM

ZOID

Thundar queried:

Quote:
Give me a break.... If F*X is so friggin conservative, WTF are all those stupid ass reality shows doing on there? Not to mention all the other drivel.

Very reminiscent of 'bread and circuses', is it not? In ancient Rome, the entertainment was watching humans and beasts get ripped of body; these days, it's watching humans get ripped of their souls, but the idea remains the same, doesn't it?

On the other hand, I see True Evil on both the left and right of the philosophical breach, which is why I shun them both. Give me a course that steers clear of ideological biases; take me out to the black, and fly us under the radar. That's why I'm a "Firefy flan", to quote the Captain...

Anti-Idealistically,

zoid
_________________________________________________

"Burn the land and boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me." The Ballad of Serenity

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Monday, December 27, 2004 9:25 AM

STARPILOTGRAINGER

While in TNT's case it was likely more or less as JMS said, I think in FOX's, we have to invoke Hanlon's Razor:

Never attribute to malice that which is adequetely explained by stupidity.

Star Pilot Grainger
"Remember, the enemy's gate is down."
LJ: http://www.livejournal.com/users/newnumber6
http://www.unreachablestar.net - Comics & SF News/Reviews/Opinions

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Monday, December 27, 2004 1:57 PM

BRUISERSMOM

Or, Firefly could have been cancelled because it had high expectations in the ratings department that didn't materialize. For one thing, I liked Buffy and Angel and would've recorded Firefly with my VCR, if I had known that it was on the air. I didn't see any commercials for it and I'm ususally out painting the town red on Friday night, instead of sitting at home channel surfing. Also, I hear that it was preempted so many times that people who knew of its existence stopped watching because it was on TV haphazardly. Those problems are with advertising and scheduling. These are also problems with not sticking by a show that is underperforming by moving it to a better time slot and seeing if its ratings improve or not preempting it as often.

On a more philosophical level, Firefly seems to me to be the kind of show that most people wouldn't get into because it's a very unique combination of genres and it's stories are more thoughtful than the storylines on Friends or on reality shows. It provokes you to think about globalization and the increasingly cozy economic relationship between the U.S. and China. It makes you think about human rights and corruption in relation to the power of the government and big business over the ordinary person. That's why I think shows like Friends and reality shows are more popular than shows like Firefly because they are more conventional and less thought provoking, so they don't challenge their audiences as much and therefore, can appeal to a broader swath of the U.S. and overseas population. Finally, reality shows are a new medium for an old form of entertainment. Think about it. Before reality shows, people had circus side shows. People also used to tour insane assylum to see crazy people act out. There are old images of well-dressed ladies and gentlemen looking at the insane with shocked expressions on their faces. I saw them while I was reading books on the history of psychology in graduate school. There's something about the bizzare and grotesque that fascinates a lot of people, while not challenging them to think too much. It's titllating. It's low brow entertainment.

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Monday, December 27, 2004 2:35 PM

STATIC

Two things. . .

1. I remember when CRUSADE was first advertised and broadcast. . .they announced from the very beginning that it was a limited series.. .that it would only run for a season.

2. I got the CRUSADE DVD set for Christmas and was OUTRAGED to see that the 2-hour pilot was not a part of it!!!! WHAT THE HELL?

==================================================
"Wash. . .we got some local color happening. A grand entrance would not go amiss."

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Tuesday, December 28, 2004 4:19 AM

THEPLAGUE

If you're referring to "A Call To Arms", I believe it's in the B5 movies boxset, along with In the Beginning, Thirdspace etc..

-------------------------------
Are these our lives? NNNOOOOOO!!!

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Tuesday, December 28, 2004 1:35 PM

MISGUIDED BY VOICES

Quote:
Originally posted by Static:
1. I remember when CRUSADE was first advertised and broadcast. . .they announced from the very beginning that it was a limited series.. .that it would only run for a season.

If I recall correctly, the term they used was a "special limited series" or something like that - obviously that's TNT for "we strangled this series at birth and now would like to show it you in an incoherent order. Please ignore the changing decor and uniforms from episode to episode"

Quote:

2. I got the CRUSADE DVD set for Christmas and was OUTRAGED to see that the 2-hour pilot was not a part of it!!!! WHAT THE HELL?

And they screwed JMS on the commentary, which he only agreed to do if he could tell the truth - they said fine and then cut his (factually accurate) comments and cut and paste in from interviews for that part of the commentary.

"I threw up on your bed"

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