What's a Libertarian? (A MUST READ) by CrevanReaver

GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

What's a Libertarian? (A MUST READ)

POSTED BY: CREVANREAVER
UPDATED: Thursday, November 10, 2022 08:42
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 8121
PAGE 1 of 1

Wednesday, October 13, 2004 12:21 PM

With the elections getting closer I want as many people as possible to know about the Best Candidate!

By now you've probably heard at least a little something about the Libertarian party. Libertarians have had a Presidential candidate on the ballot in all fifty states for the past three election cycles, and the Badnarik campaign is well on its way to making this year's election number four. We have candidates running for local and state level positions all across the country, and currently boast over 600 Libertarians in public office. It's difficult to find a place in America where you can pick up a ballot, and not find a Libertarian running for office.

In spite of this familiarity with the party, the one question that many people still seem to have is, "What exactly is a Libertarian?"

The ideas behind Libertarianism can be traced back over 400 years, to a period in history when the concepts of individual liberty & consensual government were first finding a foothold through the writings of people like John Locke and Algernon Sidney. The right to free one's self from tyrannical government was an infuriatingly-radical notion at a time when kings were thought to be divinely-ordained rulers. It was the bravery and clear-thinking of these early libertarian writers that served as the inspiration for the American Revolution, and the founding of our country as a free and independent nation. Nowhere is this clearer than in the Declaration of Independence, which makes the libertarian case perfectly, that government should exist to secure the life, liberty, and property of every one of its citizens.

Despite the historical connection behind the ideas of Libertarianism and the roots of our own nation, today's political pundits seem to have a difficult time figuring out how to label us: People with conservative beliefs see us as "liberals" because of our outspoken defense of personal freedoms—like the freedom of expression. On the other hand, people with liberal beliefs tend to see us as "conservatives" because of our staunch defense of economic freedoms, like the freedom for people to trade with one another in a way that they decide is in their own best interest. These misconceptions say more about the prejudices of the people who hold them, than they do about the Libertarian perspective.

Despite this confusion, the Libertarian philosophy is really very easy to understand. Libertarians are, quite simply, people who believe in "Self-Ownership": You own yourself, and no one else on Earth has a higher claim to your body or your labor than you do. So long as people act in a way that doesn't interfere with anyone else's freedom, Libertarians believe that they should be free to do what they please.

The idea of "Self-Ownership" is what distinguishes us from both liberals and conservatives. Every political position that Libertarians take can be traced back to this simple idea. For example, Libertarians are opposed to "liberal" attempts to use the government to regulate people's buying practices, by imposing tariffs on certain goods & industries. We oppose this kind of regulation not because we think that all goods & industries are equally wonderful, but because we believe that people own themselves, and should be allowed to buy what they like, based on their own beliefs and values. If for some people that means buying fair-trade coffee at the local co-op grocery store, then that's great—just as long as they don't use the government's power to force other people to do the same.

Likewise, Libertarians are opposed to "conservative" attempts to use the government to regulate people's morality, by imposing laws that restrict their behavior on the Sabbath, or at the pharmacy, or in the bedroom. We're opposed to these kinds of legal restrictions not because we think that all lifestyle choices are equally worth pursuing, but because we believe that people own themselves, and should be allowed to decide how to live their lives as they see fit, so long as they aren't hurting anyone else in the process.

Wait a second...If you're not conservative & you're not liberal, then where do you fit on the political spectrum?

The traditional left-right spectrum is one that political scholars have recognized is incomplete for some time. In fact, it's really only useful for tracking the answer to one question: "What part of your life do you think government should control?" On the left-hand side of the spectrum we find people who believe that it's the government's job to regulate our economic lives—that is, our interactions with one another that involve exchange. Democrats and Green party members tend to be on this end of the spectrum. On the right-hand side, we find people who believe that it's the government's job to regulate our social lives. Republicans and Constitution party members tend to be on this end of the spectrum. This one-dimensional view of politics as something for controlling one area of life or another, explains why Libertarians cringe when we hear politicians talk about passing "bi-partisan legislation"!

The closest you can come to charting Libertarians on a one-dimensional left/right spectrum is to plot us directly in the middle of the two extremes. This is the only place on the line where you can put people who don't believe in controlling each others lives either in an economic or a social sense. However, this fails to take into account that, like all other political groups, Libertarians come in varying degrees. It also makes it difficult to find a place to put people who believe that government should control both economic and social decisions.

When you think about it, it's easy to see that the simple left/right political spectrum fails to accurately describe the various mix of political opinions held today. Several ideas have been conceived about how to address this problem—the most prominent of which has resulted in something called the "Nolan Chart", which has been used as the basis for the "World's Smallest Political Quiz" mentioned in the sidebar on this page.

More important to notice, however, is the fact that the current "two-party" political system—with its major players fitting neatly along the left/right line—fails to accurately represent the range of political opinions held by voters today. Even when you include the other "third parties", without the Libertarian party, the system fails to provide a political home for people who value both economic and social freedom. Though they all still use the rhetoric, there is no other party that is willing to trust you to make all of your own decisions, or to respect all of your rights to life, liberty, and property. There is simply no other party that can truly say its policies will allow you all your freedoms, all the time.

Libertarian ideas are ideas that people still agree with in great numbers. Unfortunately, too often people are lead to believe that they don't have a choice—that they must give up something in order to have a just society—or worse, in order to elect "the lesser of two evils"...but how can being compelled to choose between your "social" freedoms and your "economic" freedoms be anything but unjust and evil?

There is another choice: If you think as we do, and if you want to send a clear message to Washington this November—a message that, if nothing else will force politicians in both major parties to think twice about passing laws that restrict your self-ownership, then vote for the candidate that you agree with most, instead of the candidate that you fear the least. Vote Libertarian!

To learn more about how the Libertarian philosophy and it's concept of Self-Ownership is being applied to specific political issues, click below.

http://badnarik.org/plans.php

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, October 13, 2004 4:49 PM

THEGREYJEDI

Mmm, Libertarian propaganda! Yum! You're still not going to win the election, nor are you likely to change anyone's affiliation here on the board. nice try, though.

--------------------------------------------------
http://tomeofgrey.blogspot.com

http://www.jed-soft.com Gamer Rigs, Budget Prices

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, October 13, 2004 5:24 PM

GOJIRO

I honestly wish the Libertarians had a chance to win, but they don't. So if you want Bush out, the best thing you can do is vote for Kerry. Plain and simple.

gojiro

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, October 13, 2004 6:11 PM

SERGEANTX

It's good to see the Libertarians are still active. There are several running for office here locally.

While I agree with nearly everything they say, I fear their cause is doomed. People in this country want to be controlled. It's as simple as that. They have been indocrinated from birth, by media, public education and consumerist culture to blindly accept what they are given. I don't see anything like a sane libertarian society developing without radical, broad changes in our values.

All that said, I'm glad they're fighting the good fight. If nothing else it's inspiring to know there are others who see things the way I do.

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, October 13, 2004 8:06 PM

PINGJING

This is an excellent break-down of libertarian beliefs, Crevanreaver. I don't know enough about the Libertarians to add much, but there is one missing link that I think ought to be mentioned. If people are free to make their own economic and social choices, then that also implies a responsibility to do so. The government's responsibility to its people was central in tonight's presidential debate (or so I heard - I had class and forgot to tape it), but like you said, it implies that the government *should* be responsible for either economic or social decisions. I think the Libertarians would respond to the debate by saying the people should take responsibility for themselves.
Anyway, that's my two cents. Not very well thought out, though, because it's 2 am and it's way past my bed-time.

TheGreyJedi said you wouldn't convince anyone on this board? He may be right. But you're trying to correct a misunderstanding, and that's worth something. And besides, maybe you'll reach a swing voter or two.

One last thought - a couple of people have said that the Libertarian candidate will never be elected. That's almost certainly the case. After all, we're functioning in a two-party system. But historically, the two main parties have been known to take over platforms of the "third parties" if they're popular. We might not ever get a Libertarian president. But voting for the Libertarians will help convince our future presidents to value our freedom.

Julia

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, October 14, 2004 5:43 PM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

Out of curiosity, where does a Libertarian fit on the political compass?? (I think it's politicalcompass.org)
What happens if a group of people get together and decide to control all the land? dam the river? shoot all the passenger pigeons? etc. Doesn't that impinge on the freedom of everyone else? How would a libertarian society of individuals deal with these organized rogues?

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, October 14, 2004 7:07 PM

SERGEANTX

Hey Rue,

I checked out that political compass website. I'm not a hundred percent on the origin of this test, but it looks like a mutilation of the Nolan Chart developed by the founder of the Libertarian Party!

Anyway, I say it's a mutilation, not because of the axes that it lays out, which are essentially the same as the Nolan Chart, but because of the test they use to place people on the chart. I'm guessing that most American libertarians would find the test terribly frustrating. Primarily this is because of the assumptions implied by the propositions it presents.

A great many of the propositions on the Political Compass test are issues which Libertarians would not even consider to be valid governmental concerns. For example, the test asks a respondant to register relative approval of homosexual activity. Now, I know there are many gay Libertarians. There are also many Libertarians who think homosexuality is a sin. But both groups agree that someones personal sexuality should be absolutely no concern of the government.

Most of the questions on this test include the implicit assumption that the issue is one of concern to government and politics. There were questions on the test concerning personal sexual morality, abstract art, luck -- there was even one on astology! The test seems to be trying to make conclusions about ones political views based on personality and preferences. I suppose these are often related, but for many people, libertarians in particular, personal tastes in art or religion
have no bearing on the proper role of government.

The makers of the test seem to be part of the European version of libertarianism (that's only a guess). I've not studied it enought to make any definitive conclusions, but it seems to be closer to a type of anarchism that rejects property rights. The American version holds that property rights are essential to any stable state of liberty.

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, June 20, 2016 8:56 PM

JAYNEZTOWN

Poll Johnson up to 9% in poll that includesS Stein (monmouth.edu)

http://www.monmouth.edu/

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, June 21, 2016 1:13 PM

REAVERFAN

I don't see a link to the poll.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, August 7, 2018 1:48 PM

JAYNEZTOWN

Daniel McAdams suspended from Twitter? Executive director of the Ron Paul Institute @ DanielLMcAdams has been suspended by Twitter, as has @ ScottHortonShow https://mobile.twitter.com/ThomasEWoods/status/1026563145463201794

Director of Ron Paul Institute banned from Twitter

The Crackdown Continues: Twitter Suspends Libertarian Accounts, Including Ron Paul Institute Director

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-08-07/crackdown-continues-twitter-
suspends-libertarian-accounts-including-ron-paul

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, June 21, 2020 4:40 PM

JAYNEZTOWN

Jo Jorgensen offers Americans a third option for president

https://www.ocregister.com/2020/05/27/jo-jorgensen-offers-americans-a-
third-option-for-president/

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, June 25, 2020 7:31 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

Normally I would have agreed with the Libertarian.

But either she isn't one, or the Libertarian party isn't Libertarian anymore.

The CARES act, although largely wasteful, WAS necessary BECAUSE the Government is too big, too bossy, too nosy, and way too intrusive... Something she complained about just few paragraphs earlier.

Hearing her say she wouldn't sign the bill after the fact isn't going to get a Libertarian elected. She should be saying that she wouldn't have allowed the shutdown to happen in the first place.

If you think the rioting was bad after the George Floyd incident, imagine a parallel universe where a Libertarian was president and the shutdown went exactly as it has but there was no relief at all for the 10's of millions of workers who did nothing wrong but were told they were not essential.

CHAZ WAS a block party compared to the rioting and looting that would have happened in Jo Jorgenson's post COVID world. Minneapolis too.

It is little wonder why you don't even hear from anybody about a 3rd party so far this election cycle if that is the best that is on offer.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, June 29, 2020 4:16 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Normally I would have agreed with the Libertarian.

But either she isn't one, or the Libertarian party isn't Libertarian anymore.

The CARES act, although largely wasteful, WAS necessary BECAUSE the Government is too big, too bossy, too nosy, and way too intrusive... Something she complained about just few paragraphs earlier.

Hearing her say she wouldn't sign the bill after the fact isn't going to get a Libertarian elected. She should be saying that she wouldn't have allowed the shutdown to happen in the first place.

If you think the rioting was bad after the George Floyd incident, imagine a parallel universe where a Libertarian was president and the shutdown went exactly as it has but there was no relief at all for the 10's of millions of workers who did nothing wrong but were told they were not essential.

CHAZ WAS a block party compared to the rioting and looting that would have happened in Jo Jorgenson's post COVID world. Minneapolis too.

It is little wonder why you don't even hear from anybody about a 3rd party so far this election cycle if that is the best that is on offer.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

Jo was VP candidate in 1996, when I voted Perot. I think 2000 was a year I didn't vote Libertarian. But looks like this time will make it at least 3 in a row for me voting Libertarian.
Libertarian used to be about 2 things. More freedom, and less spending.
Shutdown/lockdown DOES NOT equal more freedom.
Largest spending bill in history DOES NOT equal less spending, except with Libtard Maths.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, June 29, 2020 10:08 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Normally I would have agreed with the Libertarian.

But either she isn't one, or the Libertarian party isn't Libertarian anymore.

The CARES act, although largely wasteful, WAS necessary BECAUSE the Government is too big, too bossy, too nosy, and way too intrusive... Something she complained about just few paragraphs earlier.

Hearing her say she wouldn't sign the bill after the fact isn't going to get a Libertarian elected. She should be saying that she wouldn't have allowed the shutdown to happen in the first place.

If you think the rioting was bad after the George Floyd incident, imagine a parallel universe where a Libertarian was president and the shutdown went exactly as it has but there was no relief at all for the 10's of millions of workers who did nothing wrong but were told they were not essential.

CHAZ WAS a block party compared to the rioting and looting that would have happened in Jo Jorgenson's post COVID world. Minneapolis too.

It is little wonder why you don't even hear from anybody about a 3rd party so far this election cycle if that is the best that is on offer.

Do Right, Be Right. :)
Jo was VP candidate in 1996, when I voted Perot. I think 2000 was a year I didn't vote Libertarian. But looks like this time will make it at least 3 in a row for me voting Libertarian.
Libertarian used to be about 2 things. More freedom, and less spending.
Shutdown/lockdown DOES NOT equal more freedom.
Largest spending bill in history DOES NOT equal less spending, except with Libtard Maths.

I'm not sure if you're agreeing with me here or arguing with me. Seems like both, maybe?

She said she wouldn't have passed the bill, which is a Libertarian stance, but she made no claim at all that she wouldn't have enforced a shutdown which necessitated the bill in the first place.

There's no way I'd vote for her, given that. She doesn't get to look back on what was done and go halfway on the issue.

Either you don't do a lockdown and you don't need a spending bill, or you do the lockdown and you bail out all the people you fucked over.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, June 29, 2020 10:53 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

Oh... and BTW...

Wisconsin is probably going to be a fairly tight state. I'm already wondering whether or not Trump is going to get over 500 Electoral College votes this time, but do you think it's wise to vote 3rd party right now where you live, just in case?

We dodged a bullet with Trump making the last Supreme Court picks and not allowing Hillary to vote in two clones of Obama's picks.

We can't allow Biden to pick Ginsburg's replacement.

It's bad enough we have NeoCon GWB appointee Roberts in there going along with the Democrats on everything.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, June 30, 2020 2:37 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Oh... and BTW...

Wisconsin is probably going to be a fairly tight state. I'm already wondering whether or not Trump is going to get over 500 Electoral College votes this time, but do you think it's wise to vote 3rd party right now where you live, just in case?

We dodged a bullet with Trump making the last Supreme Court picks and not allowing Hillary to vote in two clones of Obama's picks.

We can't allow Biden to pick Ginsburg's replacement.

It's bad enough we have NeoCon GWB appointee Roberts in there going along with the Democrats on everything.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

With Trump's spending spree like the liberal he has always been, there might be other developments. The Tea Party developed as a result of rampant spending.

This year I am not voting for Trump nor the Dem (unless it is Gabi). I was a never-Trumper in 2016, and have continued to be, and still am. All due to his spending, debt, deficits.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, June 30, 2020 3:46 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

You didn't answer my question about Jo.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, November 16, 2020 7:06 AM

JAYNEZTOWN

Did Jo Jorgensen cost Trump the election? Libertarian vote in key battleground states
https://bernardgoldberg.com/tag/did-jo-jorgensen-cost-trump-the-electi
on-libertarian-vote-in-key-battleground-states/

‘It’s Donald Trump’s fault he lost, not mine’ - Libertarian Party leader Jo Jorgensen tells irate Americans
https://www.rt.com/usa/506654-jorgensen-biden-trump-election/

Rapper Kanye West also had announced a 2020 United States presidential election campaign with the Birthday Party / Independent.

Several lawsuits were filed after the 2020 election.

There was also the Constitution Party running, formerly the U.S. Taxpayers' Party until 1999, is a political party in the United States that promotes a religious conservative view of the principles and intents of the United States Constitution.

Green Party of the United States (GPUS) also ran in 2020, it is a federation of Green state political parties in the United States

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, November 16, 2020 2:53 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Quote:
Originally posted by JAYNEZTOWN:
Did Jo Jorgensen cost Trump the election? Libertarian vote in key battleground states
https://bernardgoldberg.com/tag/did-jo-jorgensen-cost-trump-the-electi
on-libertarian-vote-in-key-battleground-states/

‘It’s Donald Trump’s fault he lost, not mine’ - Libertarian Party leader Jo Jorgensen tells irate Americans
https://www.rt.com/usa/506654-jorgensen-biden-trump-election/

Rapper Kanye West also had announced a 2020 United States presidential election campaign with the Birthday Party / Independent.

Several lawsuits were filed after the 2020 election.

There was also the Constitution Party running, formerly the U.S. Taxpayers' Party until 1999, is a political party in the United States that promotes a religious conservative view of the principles and intents of the United States Constitution.

Green Party of the United States (GPUS) also ran in 2020, it is a federation of Green state political parties in the United States

In WI, Liberals removed Green Party candidates from the ballots for Presidential race.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, November 10, 2022 8:42 AM

JAYNEZTOWN

another failed performance from Libertarian and indie parties or was it rigged so most would never even show up as voting choices?

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

YOUR OPTIONS

SHARE THREAD

NEW POSTS TODAY

USER	POST DATE

USER

POST DATE