Quote:

---

Originally posted by pizmobeach:
"Baldwin will play a tough, seasoned FBI agent, a man's man with 25 years on the job."
What, he get his start when he was 10??!

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by tlacook:
This is Tim Minear's new show. *does happy dance*

Tim also brought in Jane Espenson to help him run it.

*does another happy dance*

hee hee

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by StarPilotGrainger:
I look forward to seeing what he does with TMiaHM

Star Pilot Grainger
"Remember, the enemy's gate is down."
LJ: http://www.livejournal.com/users/newnumber6
http://www.unreachablestar.net - Comics & SF News/Reviews/Opinions
Today on TUS: 2004 Year-In-Review

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by tlacook:
I am nervously awaiting what he does with Moon. I am not a fan of the book. I know it is a very important scifi book and way ahead of its time (yada yada yada) but, I found it impossibly sexist and dated.

I got about half way through and gave up in disgust.

I think a lot of women who grew up reading women science fiction and fantasy authors with realistic female characters have issues with Moon's little sex fiends.

Just an opinion.

I so hope Tim makes it palatable.

---

Quote:

---

...And I always find it interesting when someone talks about political correctness as if it is a "new" thing or a negative thing...

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by tlacook:
And I always find it interesting when someone talks about political correctness as if it is a "new" thing or a negative thing.

Political correctness is always present in every era within every political structure. It is simply the peer pressure enforcement of the en vogue moral code.

It existed in 1940 as much as it exists today.

---

Quote:

---

Why do you consistently say what I think in a more graceful manner than I could ever dream of doing?

---

Quote:

---

But I don't know about "misogyny". 'Woman hater' is a bit strong, don't you think? 'Woman misunderstander', I'll buy, though.

---

Quote:

---

"Dune", by Herbert -- one of my favorite books -- comes (maybe?) the closest to getting its females right, even though it's written by a male. At least, many females seem to enjoy Chani, Lady Jessica, et al, without finding them offensive.

---

Quote:

---

Regarding the familial intrabreeding aspects of Heinlein's work, yeah, you're right: It's more than a bit unsettling, especially since he seems to be trying so hard to sell the idea (testing before impregnation to see what the possibility of monstrous mutation is, etc.). On the other hand, Dune's Bene Gesserit sisterhood do the same thing, all the time, in order to produce the Kwisatz Haderach, and one very rarely finds anyone saying "Ew" -- let alone 'Boo' -- about it.

---

Quote:

---

On the second hand, the Essenes did the same thing with the line of David. On the third hand, during the days when most of Europe was ruled by monarchies, there was so much intrabreeding of royal bloodlines that hemophilia became a real problem for the Romanovs, idiocy the scourge of the Saxe-Coburg-Gothas (up to and including Prince Charles?). Getting new blood into the British lineage was one of the goals of marrying princes to commoners in this generation. So, I guess I'm saying, 'Icky, but not necessarily unheard of in human cultures'.

---

Quote:

---

Meanwhile back on the topic of writers creating believable opposite sex characters, my favorite female authors have similar troubles writing male characters. C.J. Cherryh (a fellow Texican, I believe) and C.S. Friedman both write great stories, but their male characters are distinctly women with facial hair and 'butched up' somewhat. Their characters don't think like men, and while they occasionally act like men, they do so at the wrong times and in the wrong ways.

---

Quote:

---

Please don't get defensive about this. I already said neither sex has got any clue about the motivations of the other, and that it's a hard job to make them believable.

---

Quote:

---

In closing, I never enjoyed Heinlein's earliest works, because all of the characters were cardboard cutouts. But this was due to the lurid nature of dime-novel sci-fi of the era, as much as anything else.

---

Quote:

---

I believe -- given Tim Minear's body of work -- that the movie version of TMiaHM will have more well-rounded, believable and 'less-hated' female characters than Heinlein's original.

---

Quote:

---

Thank you for your honest and well-considered responses. I suspect we've read some of the same heresies ("...Joseph landed in Britain.").

---

Quote:

---

I also suspect we're going to have to agree to disagree on some of the pivotal arguments. For instance, I believe that the only proper way to begin to empathize with another's circumstances is to start with the assumption that you can never fully comprehend what it feels like to be that other human. You can try to put yourself in their position; but unless you realize from the get-go that it's only going to be faint analogue of that other person's feelings, you run the very real risk of totally misunderstanding (and insulting) them.

---