things I wish they hadn't said by meleaux

GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

things I wish they hadn't said

POSTED BY: MELEAUX
UPDATED: Saturday, April 17, 2004 00:20
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Monday, April 12, 2004 4:35 PM

I think Mal calls Inara a whore on occasion to drive her away, consciously or subconsciously.

In college, I knew a boy who said awful things to people -- insulted them and made them leave him -- because he had already been betrayed once by someone he trusted and thought of as a friend. He wanted to drive away anyone else with the ability to hurt him. It vexed him no end that I wouldn't listen to his words and stayed his friend.

Since the Battle of Serenity, the one thing Mal doesn't want to feel is an emotional attachment to anyone. He can't really avoid it -- it's in his nature to bond with his soldiers or his crew -- but it hurt so much to lose, he still fights his own nature.

Strangely enough, Inara appears to be doing the same to Mal with her constant comments about his "petty thievery." At the end of HoG, she leads up to her announcement that she's leaving by describing what happens when you become attached to people. It's almost like she's becoming too close to the crew of Serenity, and she too is looking for ways to distance herself -- to keep herself disconnected, as if being part of the crew is something to be avoided. Her efforts to help Mal's petty thieving in "Trash" and "The Message" notwithstanding, she seems as anxious to avoid deep emotional attachment as much as Mal.

Miranda

"You can't have everything. Where would you put it?" - Steven Wright

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Monday, April 12, 2004 5:13 PM

DELIA

Oh, I think Mal was capable of killing Jayne. I think he meant to, and changed his mind at the last minute. Which is not a critism of Mal, because what Jayne did cut him to what I think is his core. (Think of the deleted scene from the pilot when Zoe explains to Simon that all Mal has left is the ship and the people on it.) The real question is, would he later have felt guilty if he had let Jayne get sucked out of Serenity.

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Monday, April 12, 2004 5:50 PM

MISSOURIFIREFLY

If Mal had meant to kill Jayne, wouldn't he have just done it without all the talking? When he killed Niska's agent and Dobson, he was very decisive. It seems like the fact that he bothered to explain things to Jayne shows that he was trying to make a point. Just my opinion, though.

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Monday, April 12, 2004 6:48 PM

SIGMANUNKI

Maybe, but, I think that Mal was almost giving Jayne a chance to repent. If the only thing that he has is on that ship, what is there is *very* valuable and worth saving. Add to that what he said to Simon about killing face to face and armed and he couldn't have just killed him.

Plus, he had to be sure that Jayne did what he thought he did, otherwise it'd just be killing. Which I think is just too against character for Mal.

----
"If you truly love the memory, you must set it free()!" -Me
"Also, I can kill you with my brain." -River

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Wednesday, April 14, 2004 3:48 AM

THOREAU

I believe Mal had every intention of killing Jayne, but because of the situation he had to do it carefully. Not just because Jayne is a big guy and relatively hard to kill,

but because Jayne is a member of the crew. The captain can't just go killing off crewmembers without a damn good reason. Even if he has a damn good reason, he has to do it in such a way that he can do it alone and then explain it to the crew later. Especially when the kilee is as dangerous as Jayne, where any interruptions could be disastrous.

As Mal is moving on from the act of killing Jayne to the concequences of the act, explaining it to the crew, Jayne catches him with a display of decency and remorse. Or maybe just pride, but whatever it was it left Mal without the conviction to do the act or explain it afterwards.

Now, about Tracey. This is mentioned all the time, often listed as a plot inconsistency even, but it was done perfectly. I'm referring to the scene in The Message where Tracey takes Kaylee hostage and ends up getting shot. People keep saying that Mal or Zoe could have just explained the situation to him and everyone would have gotten out fine. That would be all well and good if they had a shared history of picking flowers together, but their history is in the military. A stupid private, which is exactly what Tracey was, who tries to strongarm his commander into doing something isn't going to get a nice explanation. He's going to be told to sit the

down and shut the

up. I'm certain it would never occur to Mal or Zoe to explain the situation to Tracey because as soon as he grabbed Kaylee and tried to force his way the situation became something completely different. In that moment the only thing going on in the universe as far as Mal and Zoe were concerned was that a kid who should be following orders is instead turning on the crew. He has to be dealt with expediently, then and only then can anything else be done.

t

Jayne: "These are stone killers, little man. They ain't cuddly like me."

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Wednesday, April 14, 2004 4:58 AM

NUR

Quote:
Simon really is that much of a fool. He's smart, he can patch you up no matter how badly you've been punctured, but he's a fool. A selfish, arrogant fool.

Just out of curiosity, because I have a verydifferent opinion, why? Specifically the last bit. Whats your reasoning behind 'selfish, arrogant fool'?

Those who restrain desire, do so because thiers is weak enough to be restrained.
-William Blake

O my Lord! bestow wisdom on me, and join me with the righteous.
-Qur'an 26:83

http://www.thecherryorchard.com

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Friday, April 16, 2004 8:39 AM

DELIA

Thoreau --

Thanks for a thoughtful explaination of something that I really had been wondering about (regarding Tracey). I'm not 100% certain I agree with you, but it was a perspective I hadn't even thought of. Now I've got to go rewatch the episode yet again!

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Friday, April 16, 2004 10:43 PM

THOREAU

Quote:
Originally posted by Nur:
Whats your reasoning behind 'selfish, arrogant fool'?

Simon Tam is a self-absorbed jerk who wants nothing more than to be a great surgeon on a core planet. Nothing, that is, except for getting his sister someplace safe. This one aspect of his character, which I hesitate to give him credit for because it’s such a basic human instinct, is his only redeeming quality. Sure he's useful, he heals the sick and treats the wounded, but that doesn't make him a good person. I don't believe that he's a doctor because he wants to help people. I believe he's a doctor because it's a very challenging, detail-oriented job that gives him a feeling of pride and control. Just the sort of thing that a self-absorbed, arrogant jerk can do and feel superior for having done. Maybe if the show had gone on a bit longer we would have seen a little more of Simon's character, but as it was there just wasn't much there. The only scene where I was impressed by Simon was when he had Jayne on the table in Trash and he told Jayne he would always be safe there. That was ballsy. Arrogant and foolish, but ballsy.

t

Jayne: "These are stone killers, little man. They ain't cuddly like me."

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Friday, April 16, 2004 11:05 PM

AMNESIAC

Simon is caring, nurturing, smart, and brave. He only comes off as arrogant because he's completely lost in his current situation, and socially inept. So he puts up a cold and superior exterior to mask his fear. He's used to only dealing with uptight and well educated people. Now he's in a working class environment where you are defined by your actions, and not the letters behind your name. He gave up everything he had to save his bratty kid sister. Which shows a strength of character his parents obviously didn't have. I like him. I'm sure he'd grow and relax as the series went on.

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Saturday, April 17, 2004 12:20 AM

DEANNAMAY

I agree with you amnesiac, Simon is thoughtful, but was brought up in a household where station and accomplishment were everything it seems. He defines himself by what he does, not how he works with people. Caring for a sibling is not a given. A lot of people don't give a crap about their family. He is the one who stood up for his sister, not the parents who supposedly brought her into the world.

Simon is very truthful, about his accomplishments, he isn't bragging, just stating the facts. He is smart, he did graduate early, he did practice in an ER, he doesn't make these facts up. He brought it up to desmonstrate how smart his sister is, not himself. The subtleties of conversation are lost to him. Not that he isn't learning, but he didn't exactly get a lot of time.

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