Inara's secret. by peacekeeper

GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

Inara's secret.

POSTED BY: PEACEKEEPER
UPDATED: Saturday, June 6, 2009 10:50
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 44182
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Thursday, May 7, 2009 5:36 AM

Only going to write one post on this, because this is definitely not the place to discuss my own little bit of writing, but, yeah, what Simon tells Mal in the last chapter was that she was trying to slow the progression of the disease by slowing down everything. Though the implication is also that as a street drug it can be used simply for the sake of vanity.

You can still hate my portrayal of her mother. Mal does. :-) I think at best she's misguided and confused, at worst actively malicious.

Okay, end non-canon fic rant.

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Thursday, May 7, 2009 6:18 AM

You know, one other thing. It seems to me that a lot of people who watch Firefly don't really like Inara. I think some fans perhaps do see her as vain and shallow, and I think that's too bad. In part, this is why I'm so glad Morena let Inara's secret slip. It was obvious there was something there, of course, but if it was just that she wanted to live forever, then that would've lessened her character rather than enhancing it. And that's what's frustrating about so much of the anti-aging talk: it lessens her character. So, right, just to repeat, I think, if it's there, it has to involve her illness.

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Thursday, May 7, 2009 6:41 AM

Just so you know, when you post it, I'm going to act surprised still. Because you're probably not telling us everything.

In regards to how people perceive Inara, I think there's a perception that because she's a bit promiscuous, she really is immoral. And because she's immoral and promiscuous, there's a tendency to see her underneath the pretty as (and write her as) a selfish shrew of a slut. I guess her fighting with Mal doesn't really impress them either, I see a lot of interpretation as Mal is just trying to call her on what she's doing is wrong, and her response is shrieking back. Because I guess Mal has to be right, and she's not acting like a good girl should, all needy and submissive and supportive, so she doesn't deserve him.

...I want someone to make me a sammich now. Preferably male.

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Thursday, May 7, 2009 7:06 AM

Oh, just to be clear, I don't mean the VERY last chapter. I haven't thought nearly that far ahead. I meant the last one I posted, number 6. So nothing spoiled. Can't spoil for you what I don't know myself.

But, more importantly: I find it so bizarre that people would think ill about her because of her profession. If anything, I find her work REALLY interesting in terms of the false divisions/emotional compartmentalization it must force her to erect. I LOVE how Joss puts that right out there in the pilot during her conversation with the client. I also think it pushes us to think about her connection to her body, which is particularly interesting since it's a body that's dying.

I love everyone, but she's my favorite – and it makes me really, really, really sad when she's shoved aside in fanfic as someone who's kind of in Mal's way.

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Thursday, May 7, 2009 8:36 AM

shoved aside like she's in Mal's way...

Thank you, thank you, from all of us that adore her character.

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Thursday, May 7, 2009 8:37 AM

Although, to be fair to that viewpoint, even though Inara tends to emphasize the therapeutic nature of her occupation...

Well, I could see how complications might arise. I imagine she generally likes her clients, but she's encouraging them to feel more than just like. Even without Mal in the picture it's the sort of thing that you'd expect could cause a lot of jealousy. Even some of the nicest people can start to act crazy if the bug bites them.

In that way, there is something potentially deceptive and harmful in what she does. I think she has to walk a pretty fine line between that and what good she does.

I'm not saying she's a bad person, because she definitely has a strong sense of morals, her decisions aren't unethical, and what she does she does not do with the intent to manipulate or harm. And she's not perfect, and I love that about her. I'm just pointing out, yeah it gives her feminine power and independence, but on the other hand it also reinforces masculine power over women (as all prostitution does), and there's a heck of a lot of problems that could arise from her career choice (again, besides Mal).

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Thursday, May 7, 2009 8:57 AM

Oh, I agree that it's really complicated, and that it probably makes her behave unintentionally in ways that could be seen as very manipulative. Another thing that's fronted in that first scene with a client – his distrust of her. But I'm more interested in the internal conflicts it must breed in her, even if she's not completely aware they're there. The other thing being a Companion offers her of course is a mechanism through which she can be in complete control of her relationships to people, which I would imagine would be useful emotionally given her situation. That Mal doesn't allow her to control their relationship (use her wiles on him) must frustrate her immensely. I don't think she quite knows how to have a relationship outside of the emotional boundaries dictated by her illness and by the Guild. I just wish there was more acknowledgment that she's COMPLICATED, not simply malicious or sinister or bothersome or vain or any of these other two-dimensional representations. :-)

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Thursday, May 7, 2009 9:08 AM

You know, that's another interesting question to speculate on. When did she find out? How has it influenced her career and the way she practices (aside from the 'see the universe' tour she decided to take)?

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Thursday, May 7, 2009 11:56 AM

Quoting Bytemite in this thread on Mal: And judging by all his pony-tail pulling, Mal hasn't had too many mature reciprocated relationships with women. He kind of doesn't know HOW to act. And his upbringing seems to have left him kind of repressed, both religious and in the values of masculine strength he appears to have been taught, so he doesn't have any way that he knows how to express his desires, and seems inclined to try to ignore them out of his own embarrassment.

Quoting Cliosmuse in this thread on Inara: The other thing being a Companion offers her of course is a mechanism through which she can be in complete control of her relationships to people, which I would imagine would be useful emotionally given her situation. That Mal doesn't allow her to control their relationship (use her wiles on him) must frustrate her immensely. I don't think she quite knows how to have a relationship outside of the emotional boundaries dictated by her illness and by the Guild.

I think that about sums it up. Shall we all go home now? No, on second thoughts - there's still so much more about this ship to explore. But like Platonist, I find it a pleasure to see this level of discussion about two such fascinating characters. When I read these two quotes together, it really gives new layers to the Shindig scene where Inara tries to use her wiles on Mal when she's teaching him to fence and he rears up and turns on her with his remark about whore academy.

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Thursday, May 7, 2009 12:58 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
Platonist: I don't think Mal necessarily judges people based on how useful they are. Objects in Space and the Lilac Run aside, River tends to be far more trouble and in need of protection than the amount she gives back. Yet he lets her stay.

Or Shepherd Book. Initially his perspective is why the hell would I want a shepherd around? Shepherd Book is a pretty good cook from what I can tell, and seems to know an awful lot about clandestine operations, but none of that is why he stays either.

If all Mal really valued about people is how they are useful (to him), his initial impression of Inara would have been "rich, pampered, spoiled, useless." Which I don't think is the impression he got at all. And I really don't think he enjoys it when she uses her companion status to save his neck, even though it's quite useful for him!

Nah, a person who only values others for their uses isn't just Mal-practical, they're narcissistic sociopaths. Mal appreciates plenty of other things about his crew than just what uses they have. What would Mal be without Kaylee's cheerfulness, Book's wise common sense, Wash's sense of humour and sometimes friendship, or Zoe's loyalty? River's important to him, not just cause she's a reader and a pilot, though what about her it is... Maybe her combination intellectual and childlike wonder or playfulness? Jayne is important because he represents straight-up self-interest, which Mal uses to protect the crew. Mal does respect Simon's unexpected bravery (quiet guy like that, who'd have thought?), that is, when Simon isn't punching him for taking River on a job, or annoying him, or being too sarcastic... And Inara. I'm not sure there's anything about her he doesn't appreciate.

Nope, I think our Captain has a secret sentimental side. :)

Somebody on the site had another link (I'll see if I can dig it up) on a theory that each of the other characters represent (and therefore in this context APPEAL to) parts of Mal--his willpower, his heart, his logic, etc.
I thought it was quite good as a working model interpretation--many things fall into place.

I think Mal though, is not judgeable as a "normal" character--ie a character with a reasonably cohesive, convergent physical, emotional or mental life (and you thought I was talking about River, didn't you?) So part of me agrees with Platonist--he NEEDS them for specific reasons, he just gets ATTATCHED to them for specific (usually other) reasons.
But oh yeah, secret sentimental side definitely there. :)

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Thursday, May 7, 2009 4:04 PM

That would be me

Aspects of Mal

http://www.soulfulspike.com/aspects_of_mal.htm

Maybe "using others" was a poor choice of words.

Can we agree he needs to work on being more sensitive to others:)

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Thursday, May 7, 2009 5:04 PM

Oh yeah. Opens his mouth, and sometimes darkness comes out. Can't help it just yet, but he really needs to learn to. Settle that impatience and frustration down a bit.

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Thursday, May 7, 2009 9:34 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by peacekeeper:
Just found a video on youtube from Dragoncon '08.Morena revealed Inara's secret.Is this common knowledge or should I keep my mouth shut?

Ok, after digging through youtube for over an hour, I finally found the reveal you were talking about and I was stunned. I'd seen that theory before but had dismissed it (thought it had to be more complex or sinister...not that it isn't, just diff. from what I imagined). It changes things as to the why's and consequences of peoples actions and how the story would have evolved.

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Friday, May 8, 2009 5:27 AM

I just found it out through watching that video too. My reaction was pretty much that same heart sinking silence shared by everybody in the audience. I'd never heard that theory before at all - I'd heard the anti-aging, the rape and the secret child theories but not the actual truth. Im still kinda conflicted actually about whether i'm glad I know or not. Its a 'yay now I understand more of her character' and also a 'nooo it's so sad'. Also now there's no hope for a truly happy ending for her and Mal - not one that lasts anyhow. Did anybody else feel the same when they first found out or am I just a complete moon-brain?

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Friday, May 8, 2009 5:56 AM

Well, I actually didn't feel complete despair, because all Morena and Joss confirmed is that

Select to view spoiler:

She is DYING, not that she is GOING TO DIE.

Knowing Joss' tragedy leanings, the two things might mean the same thing, but then again, why bother making the distinction?

Two ways for it to go, either the crew pulls together and saves Inara, or we have a lovely piece of angst. I'm hoping we don't get the angst, but I have to admit either storyline has so much potential.

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Sunday, May 10, 2009 2:38 AM

If we did get the angst you know it would be horrible but heart achingly beautiful at the same time, all because of the genius of Joss.
I don't understand what you mean about the crew pulling together to save her. If it's a question of money to pay for the cure she could pay herself or the Guild could pay. Simon is the only doctor and he's technically a trauma surgeon, working on cures for unknown medical problems isn't his forte. I suppose River could be of some help, though with what exactly I don't know. What can the crew do to help?

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Sunday, May 10, 2009 6:08 AM

At least during the course of the movie, every single person on Serenity had fugitive status, including Inara. I say this going by the scene cut from the movie, and from the extras on the Blue Ray Disc.

I don't know if the Operative managed to get any of them off the Cortex Interpol. If not, the guild couldn't help Inara too much.

Of course, if they were all fugitives, it'd make life after Miranda pretty much impossible for all of them. They'd already have enough problems getting work. So, I would say everyone except Simon and River are free and clear.

But with a training house attacked and reports of an Operative visiting just before, even IF the guild didn't put two and two together about the Miranda broadwave, Inara would still have a lot to answer for. Going to the guild to explain herself, furthermore, could give the Alliance a very nice hostage to hold over the crew.

Inara being able to continue with the guild after Miranda, therefore, would be very unlikely. However, that doesn't mean I don't think some elements of the guild aren't sympathetic to her plight.

If Inara gets help, it'll be from the crew. Simon is a trauma surgeon, but he has medical expertise in other areas, enough that he can figure out treatment plans and medication possibilities and doses (look at River! He's not exactly a psychologist or a neurologist, but she does make some improvements). And if the guild can't help overtly (they might supply anonymous hints and information, even facility security information), then the crew has to procure what Inara needs to get better.

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Sunday, May 10, 2009 6:33 AM

If it's as simple as the Guild paying for a cure, they would have done so a long time ago and then she wouldn't be dying anymore, which doesn't make for much of a story, and what else does the crew really have to do...just saying.

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Sunday, May 10, 2009 8:29 AM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

Quote:
Originally posted by Platonist:
If it's as simple as the Guild paying for a cure, they would have done so a long time ago and then she wouldn't be dying anymore, which doesn't make for much of a story, and what else does the crew really have to do...just saying.

Let's pretend that we know a dramatic reason why Inara is delaying her Guild paid cure. Inara might have to become medical “Sleeping Beauty”, hibernating for 99 years while each cell in her body has its DNA repaired. It's a very hi-tech, science-fiction kind of cure. By the time she wakes, everyone she knows and loves would be dead. That's good reason to delay the cure and take herself away from her old friends in the Core while she makes her farewell tour of the 'Verse. Nothing will be the same when she awakens. And then Inara tragically makes more friends on Serenity that she will also say goodbye to forever.

The only happy ending possible is that all Inara's new friends go into hibernation with her. I think Serenity should take a sub-light-speed trip to Earth, which is a great storytelling excuse for everybody to sleep with Inara for 99 years. Because Inara and Jayne don't like one another, maybe Jayne stays behind to talk in the bars and brothels about his glory days serving on Serenity. That would be a shiny ending to Serenity 2, with Jayne, gray-haired and wrinkled, raising his beer-stein and giving a toast to his still young crew-mates in hibernation, who are halfway to Earth. He regrets that he didn't go with them. Maybe he says something funny and nice about the Tams. Or maybe not.

YouTube - Morena Baccarin's Spoiler! - Inara's Secret =

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Tuesday, May 12, 2009 6:40 AM

Maybe not.

Though do you think Jayne's gonna get old? Sometime he's actually gonna get shot somewhere else than just his leg. Chances are high on him dying early

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Tuesday, May 12, 2009 7:32 AM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

Quote:
Originally posted by MalsNara:
Maybe not.

Though do you think Jayne's gonna get old? Sometime he's actually gonna get shot somewhere else than just his leg. Chances are high on him dying early

After being shot one too many times, I see Jayne giving up the mercenary life and becoming fat and sedentary. He survives into old age by getting into business -- a liquor store owner or a gunsmith. Or maybe running a bar with some rooms above that he rents by the hour. With some upstairs waitresses 'serving' customers, know-what-I-mean? All very semi-legitimate work suitable for Jayne. It's not like Mal is going to give Jayne a pension large enough to live a dignified retirement. Jayne will have to work in his old age.
Damn, Jayne's life after Serenity sounds dull. Jayne should explore the Solar System with everybody else. Go for the glory, Jayne! Go to Earth! It will make a better story for Serenity 3.

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Tuesday, May 12, 2009 7:33 AM

BLUESUNCOMPANYMAN

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
I spent all that time arguing with BSCM that part of Inara's secret may have to do with anti-aging... But there really isn't any reason for Joss to have drawn attention to her appearance and age unless something was significant about it.

Yes. Exactly. I am a person that believes Joss does not waste dialogue. When Nandi marvels "You haven't aged" there was a key clue buried there. The clue was just as important as the buried dialogue "I don't want to die at all" to Simon in OOG.

I followed Shiney's post further up to a really old post from Jan of 2004...gosh that predates me even...where I learned something I'd never even known before. http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=2&t=3415#36893

Shiney relates in post #8 that in between speaking lines in the episode The Message is the following action when the crew is at the post office in the bazzar:

Inara finds a small package, squarish, addressed to her. She smoothly slips it beneath her outfit without anyone noticing, turns to see Kaylee arrive, looking glum.

I'm going to go home tonight and look for this. From personal experience of reading episode scripts online, there are differences between what they intended to shoot and what actually got shot. This is because shooting scripts are not the same as episode transcripts. I will say however, that reading the shooting scripts really helps gel some aspects of the show, and also can add texture to different scenes when the script's line was X and the actor impromtu'ed Y, or some such. When looked at side by side a richness can sometimes be seen, such as in this situation with Inara in the Bazzar. I'm of a mind that like Shiney relates in 2004, the package contained a similar syringe in a box. Seeing as how she had it mailed to a rim planet she knew they'd be visiting, I'd wager she requires regular injections of the syringe substance for an unknown reason.

I thought I knew it all, and yet I'm still finding more tidbits. I recall in 2007 I got all excited upon seeing the Blue Sun logo spinning in the center of the holo-imager in the Ariel Hospital, elated at finally seeing something I didn't know before. Shiney's post from 2004 gave me another jolt of that excitement today.

yea!

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Tuesday, May 12, 2009 7:49 AM

Two: I've heard people mention a Butch Cassidy and Sundance Kid style ending for Mal and Jayne (and maybe the entire crew of Serenity). That kind of has it's appeal. :) After all, no one knows whether they actually died in one last stand-off, or if they made it to Mexico...

But you know what? I actually agree with you that I think Jayne would die old, fat, happy, and grizzled. Despite his line of work, and despite not knowing much else, Jayne's a survivor. He's like... A cockroach. He could be in a nuclear holocaust and he'd STILL be kicking around afterward. Barring that, I see plenty of beer and whores in his future.

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Tuesday, May 12, 2009 7:52 AM

Nice find, BSCM, I ought to try to watch the Message for that.

Maybe this wasn't ret-conned, but intended all along? It's interesting. I wonder why she's never shown any symptoms?

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Wednesday, May 13, 2009 10:23 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
Nice find, BSCM, I ought to try to watch the Message for that.

Maybe this wasn't ret-conned, but intended all along? It's interesting. I wonder why she's never shown any symptoms?

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Wednesday, May 13, 2009 10:35 AM

I'm missing something here.

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Wednesday, May 13, 2009 1:24 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
Nice find, BSCM, I ought to try to watch the Message for that.

Just to be clear, that bit about Inara hiding a package in her sleeve wasn't shown in the actual episode, but it was in the original shooting script, which you can read here (something has gone wrong with the formatting though): http://www.fireflyfans.net/feature.asp?f=46

---

I don't need a gorram back-spaceship driver!!!

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Wednesday, May 13, 2009 1:36 PM

Ah. Neat! Thanks for the clarification.

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Wednesday, May 13, 2009 2:45 PM

I don't view Inara's secret as retcon, she's been doing her secret from the beginning, and I don't mean coloring her hair:)

The reason she is dying, or the hows and whats, may need to change to be applied to the Serenity verse rather than the Firefly verse, but the truth of her condition remains the same.

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Wednesday, May 13, 2009 2:54 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by bluesuncompanyman:
Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
I spent all that time arguing with BSCM that part of Inara's secret may have to do with anti-aging... But there really isn't any reason for Joss to have drawn attention to her appearance and age unless something was significant about it.
Yes. Exactly. I am a person that believes Joss does not waste dialogue. When Nandi marvels "You haven't aged" there was a key clue buried there. The clue was just as important as the buried dialogue "I don't want to die at all" to Simon in OOG.

I'm with you there on both counts.

Quote:

... hears "I'm a big girl; just tell me." that it could in fact have been directed not at Mal but something she said to a doctor once... a doctor who was hesitating about telling Inara the seriousness of her condition...

I always thought that was pretty obvious, to be honest. Definitely +1.

Inara having a medical thing going on was pretty clear, IMHO. I was just never sure *what* it was. Based the three quotes you mention, I've always gone for the 'not wanting to age' theory.

Knowing what we know now, I still can't fully place Nandi's "You haven't aged" marvel yet. So, whatever 'package' Inara received (on a regular basis?), maybe it was just artificially keeping her health up, and Nandi just meant she hadn't aged as much as she expected, given her illness? Still, that doesn't entirely fit yet.

In a way I'm 'glad' though Inara was dying, as opposed to her having found the Fountain of Youth (a rather cheesy theme, really, which has the potential to go bad real fast). So, dying it is then.

--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

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Thursday, May 14, 2009 10:37 AM

BLUESUNCOMPANYMAN

As an extension to the subject of "I'm a Big Girl Just Tell Me" here are my intrerprations to the different reads River makes of crewmember secrets in OIS. I know it's not the thread topic, but it helps gel Inara's statement a little more when taken as a part of a greater whole of crew karma.

Simon: "I would be there right now" Simon secretly regrets his choice to save River. If given the choice again he'd certainly do nothing different, but he longs to be a respected surgeon and secretly wishes to have it all back. He hides these feelings of regret from everyone.

Jayne: "I got stupid the money was too good" This one is obvious, Jayne is hiding his betrayal of the Tams from the crew. Mal knows what happened and Simon heard about it from River, but Jayne still hides it from everyone else.

Book: "I don't give half a hump if you're innocent or not! So where does that put you?" I believe Book was an operative during the Unificaiton War and did some terrible things he regrets. When you place his words into the terrible mean context of his delivery (almost snarling) the impression of an evil act is evident. Whatever he did during the war, he regrets and hides it. His guilt forced him into a holy life in an attempt to atone.

Zoe & Wash - In this scene they believe themselves to be alone. River feels their deep and secret love for each other.

Inara - "I'm a big girl, just tell me" Hashed and re-hashed in this thread. Inara is learning she is terminal from a doctor on Sihnon.

Mal - "None of it means a damn thing" Could be any number of things, but in the vein of secrets this is an interesting quote indeed. When I think about it, I believe whatever happened to cause this quote, happened after the war ended. Prior to Serenity Valley Mal is filled with fire and purpose. The delivery of the line relates an emotional vaccum.

Kaylee - Hey why is Kaylee here? Good question. It was revealed to me that in the scene where Simon delivers his lime to River, there is a clue about Kaylee. Joss relates that Kaylee wears all her emotions on her sleeve. In the film when Jewel delivered the line "I ain't had nothin twixt my nethers weren't run on batteries" she delivered it softly and sideways at first until Joss called cut and said that Kaylee would never hide such a thing. That's why she declares it openly. In the OIS scene Kaylee stares blankly at River with a rather dead un-kaylee like expression. The reason for this is that Kaylee has no secrets to hide and River therefore psychically sees a blank slate.

The deliveries of the lines are also important:
Simon - Sad and whistful
Kaylee - Nothing
Jayne - Stupid and direct
Book - Hostile
Inara - Firm and direct
Mal - Emotional Vaccum

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Thursday, May 14, 2009 11:03 AM

Hmm... Book. I hear the Operative theory a lot. I just don't have enough facts to know what his secret is.

He certainly knows a lot about Operatives, and there does seem to be something dark in his past, that he might regret.

How old is Book? 50s? The Unification War started about 12 years before the movie. Are CIA agents still active in their forties, or do they tend to retire early because it's a dangerous occupation and they slow down too much?

Maybe he could still be an Operative, but from an earlier conflict than the war.

But I don't know... Operatives seem to be something that was invented for the movie, when they couldn't use the series villains, like the Hands of Blue, because of various legal entanglements. If Inara's secret wasn't retconned (and judging by The Message shooting script it wasn't), then I don't think Book's would be either.

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Thursday, May 14, 2009 11:56 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by bluesuncompanyman:

Kaylee - Hey why is Kaylee here? Good question. It was revealed to me that in the scene where Simon delivers his lime to River, there is a clue about Kaylee. Joss relates that Kaylee wears all her emotions on her sleeve. (...) In the OIS scene Kaylee stares blankly at River with a rather dead un-kaylee like expression. The reason for this is that Kaylee has no secrets to hide and River therefore psychically sees a blank slate.

I have a different theory on that, which I divulged a good while back:

http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=4&t=31398

In the audio I analyzed (at the start of OiS, before River wakes up), you can hear Kaylee say: "In some distance I meant to say I was pretty shake up, before." In short, my theory is that Kaylee's 'dead' expression is a spill-over from Kaylee's emotional shock in War Stories. So, basically, Kaylee is doing *exactly* that: wearing her emotions on her sleeve! And that's what River picks up.

--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

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Thursday, May 14, 2009 12:00 PM

Ooh, that's intriguing. Later in the episode, Kaylee does have an important part in the discussion when she reveals River's ability with guns. That would tie in nicely.

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Thursday, May 14, 2009 3:03 PM

Before one of the cons, Ron Glass asked Joss to give him some inside info to tell the fans who were always pestering him about Book's secret. So Joss let him tell the con that Book was a dirty cop, who took the name of the man that he wronged. It was supposed to be made into a comic book, but kind of got put on hold when Dollhouse started. Here's more info here:

http://screenrant.com/sheperd-book-serenity-fans-rejoice-brusimm-3409/

Great thread by the way, loving all the new info - waiting for the new fic to come of it too!

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Friday, May 15, 2009 2:36 AM

BLUESUNCOMPANYMAN

Quote:
Originally posted by asarian:
In the audio I analyzed (at the start of OiS, before River wakes up), you can hear Kaylee say: "In some distance I meant to say I was pretty shake up, before." In short, my theory is that Kaylee's 'dead' expression is a spill-over from Kaylee's emotional shock in War Stories. So, basically, Kaylee is doing *exactly* that: wearing her emotions on her sleeve! And that's what River picks up.

The audio work you've done is certainly worthy. I read your post from 2007 but I'm going to take issue with some parts of it. Namely that the voices at the outset do not, I believe, bear upon the secrets she feels from the crew. The voices represent a jumble of thoughts/feelings/expressions of crew members with whom she feels at home and are mutually exclusive from her psychic journey through the ship. She wakes when she picks up Early's "We're all just floating" because he doesn't belong. I am though more interested that you claim there was another Early statement in the audio breakout: "Aren't you listening..?" This flys into my long held feeling that she woke because she sensed Early's ship come into range and suddenly felt the presence of a stranger.

Then as to the "why" behind Kaylee's blank slate look, I don't see it as being connected to any emotions of Kaylee's at all. That rushing sound you hear before River senses the secrets is the clue of transition. If I consider the other characters and their quotes, they don't exist as extensions of anything felt, they exist as secret thoughts within which are contained emotions. It only makes sense to me that River was reading Simon's secret thoughts and with Kaylee there was nothing to sense, thus the blankness. I guess people are going to have differing thoughts and analysis can go as deep as anything. I recall book discussions in English classes where all sorts of interprations to things were proposed, many of which could not co-exist.

Maybe this is just one of those things that can mean whatever people want it to mean.

I do like the fact that Joss continues to be the "master of misdirection" in the Simon/Kaylee sequence. They were actually talking about his time as a doctor when River looked at them so we are logically led to believe that River was reading surface thoughts, which isn't true. Joss is the misdirecting king, truely a master storyteller.

If you like this subject something else might interest you: Look on the DVD for the deleted scenes (All but one are canon btw) and there is a sequence from Our Mrs Reynolds where River is acting crazy around her brother. Mal and Saffron approach. Saffron looks to River and says something polite like "It's good to meet you" River regards Safron for a moment then her expression changes to hostility and she declares "You're a Liar!" The crew look to each other akwardly at River's supposed lunacy and Mal leads Saffron away. When I think about OIS I see this sequence far differently:
Mal: "Saffron this is River. River meet Saffron"
Saffron: "It's nice to meet you"
River looks to Saffron
-Rushing Sound-
Saffron: (insert creepy psychic statement)
River: "You're a liar!"
Crew looks around akwardly, Mal leads Saffron away.

It's scenes like that which show to me how deeply Joss's mind goes.

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Friday, May 15, 2009 2:49 AM

BLUESUNCOMPANYMAN

Quote:
Originally posted by Katesfriend:
Joss let him tell the con that Book was a dirty cop, who took the name of the man that he wronged.

Oh Crap. Darn Darn Darn. I very much wanted to see Book be an Operative during the war. I suppose a Dirty Cop works well enough and explains why he knew Womak's stripes in the episode The Message, but an operative would know such things too.

The operative theory made for a perfect fit to these clues:
-The alliance vessel put him into the ER as quickly as possible without question. This makes sense for an operative, but a former cop is much weaker.
-He told the barker in the Evestown docks that he "Wasn't a Grandpa". Being an operative requires absolute commitment to the alliance, there is no room for a family.
-His knowlewdge of how the operative in the movie was going to sneak up on Mal "Saddle up to you and smile, then hit you when you're weak" again its a weak argument to say a cop would know how the operative would think, but a former operative absoutely would understand the thought process.

I guess I'll settle for the cop background, but I'm going to state openly that it isn't the best use of story. It feels more like a subject Joss hadn't been thinking about and then just gave Ron something offhand to placate fans.

A final note of bitter regret, my fan film was up until now going to reference Ron Glass as an operative. At this point I'm going to delete it outright to play it safe.

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Sunday, May 17, 2009 1:12 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
I'm missing something here.

Yeah - for some reason my message didn't appear, sorry. I'd write it again but I can't remember what it was now :)

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Sunday, May 17, 2009 7:18 AM

I think any problems Inara might have could probably be solved by the top 3% surgeon and medical doctor in the 'verse. Especially now that he won't be too fixated on his sister.

Just a thought.

http://www.swyzzlestyx.com/index.html

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Sunday, May 17, 2009 7:57 AM

Simon and not-fixated-on-his-sister does not compute, unfortunately.

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Sunday, May 17, 2009 8:13 AM

Zoe a widow and River piloting Serenity doesn't compute either:)

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Sunday, May 17, 2009 10:29 AM

True enough. Hard to imagine all of that, let alone the aftermath...

And then Inara. Oi, Mal's in for a fun ride...

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Sunday, May 17, 2009 10:29 AM

EDIT: Doubled for some reason.

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Sunday, May 17, 2009 1:22 PM

where on you tube can I find what Moreana said about Inaras secret

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Sunday, May 17, 2009 2:57 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
Simon and not-fixated-on-his-sister does not compute, unfortunately.

What I meant was that after Serenity, Rver was clearly on the mend, and while Simon will look after his sister, I think he won't have to spend every waking moment worrying about trying to discover the cause and a possible cure.

http://www.swyzzlestyx.com/index.html

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Sunday, May 17, 2009 3:42 PM

She's better, she's dealt with some of the horrors buried in her subconscious and has come to understand what it is that scares her. But she can still be overcome, and I think it'll still be a while before Simon can accept new River over old River. During that time, I can still imagine Simon as being very obsessed about finding something to fix his sister.

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Thursday, May 28, 2009 6:07 AM

bump

Yeah, I think you got that one right, B...Simon will continue to try and fix his sister:) even though she may not need or want to be "normal" and it may cause contention within the crew, especially between Mal and Simon.

And once in a while I have to remind myself and others that this is not a Fairytale verse, as much as we all want it to be, post BDM.

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Thursday, May 28, 2009 7:09 AM

BLUESUNCOMPANYMAN

Quote:
Originally posted by rivergirl22:
where on you tube can I find what Moreana said about Inaras secret

It's direct linked above but here's the http:

youtube dot com/watch?v=YTxGOi9coWQ&feature=channel_page

I tried to copy/paste it in but the server provides a direct link if I do. Type this into your browser and you should get there.

Emotionaly interesting at 1:09 in the vid. When she drops the truth it's first followed by total silence then by a *sigh* that runs through the crowd. I wish I'd been there to feel that energy.

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Thursday, May 28, 2009 9:37 AM

Since we've revived this, here's something I've been thinking about recently. Why does Inara pretty much say she's going to stay to Serenity, if nothing about her condition has changed?

I have a couple theories on it, but I'm curious what everyone else thinks.

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Thursday, May 28, 2009 10:14 AM

Hmm… getting philosophical on us B, my assumption is that Joss not only needs material that includes River beating up everyone in the Alliance (for those fans that want more of that), but an actual story about the timeless universality of love's strength in the Verse:)

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