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Originally posted by Bytemite:
You know... All we see is Inara give Fess a kiss and the next day Inara is cleaning up tea. I mean, it's assumed there was sex, maybe because we all expect it, but sex is never actually implied. Maybe we just all have really dirty minds. What if the tea ceremony took all night or they just stayed up talking about Fess's problems and his dad putting him down all the time? And the next morning, when Fess expresses his admiration for the Hero of Canton and how his dad's looking to string him up, Inara hatches a clever plan for Fess to defy his father, assert himself, and also help her.

Having sex with him would also contradict Inara telling Fess that being a virgin is nothing to be ashamed of, that it's just a state of being. Fess' problem wasn't that he was a virgin, and clearly Inara's reason for accepting him for a client was to help him with his problems. Sex necessary? Maybe not!

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Originally posted by Bytemite:

Simon's too proper to really get a read on whether he thinks sex is important or not; obviously he's able to recognize that Mal as big brother might be dangerous if it looked like Kaylee had been taken advantage of, and might react the same way in regards to River. His reaction to Kaylee asking Inara about her appointments might be prudishness, and that's how Kaylee takes it, leading to the subsequent conversations about what's proper. But maybe he's just surprised to hear it from Kaylee, who can seem pretty innocent. At the very most, it could possibly be argued that Simon sees sex as something vulgar. But either way, it seems to me it's not something he really cares about, or maybe even thinks about much. Which again suggests that core worlders don't really see it as anything important.

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Originally posted by Bytemite:
Well, it's been a while. I admit I was mostly looking at the script for the episode here, which goes from Inara's "it's okay to be a virgin speech" and kiss to morning with the crew, then at some point back to Inara, who the script specifies is cleaning up their tea.

*double checks* Ah, hmm. Yep, that was added. Guess Joss had to put some sex in the episode somehow. :)

Still, it probably COULD have been accomplished without sex. With the added benefit of FURTHER pissing off the Magistrate.

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Originally posted by Bytemite:
Wait now, are companions contracted for specific types of engagements, or does someone make an appointment and the companion and client settle on the exact nature of their engagement during the preliminaries? "It's a pleasure to see you, how have things been since we last spoke?" And other such companiony leading questions intended to get someone to unburden?

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Originally posted by Bytemite:
Wait now, are companions contracted for specific types of engagements, or does someone make an appointment and the companion and client settle on the exact nature of their engagement during the preliminaries? "It's a pleasure to see you, how have things been since we last spoke?" And other such companiony leading questions intended to get someone to unburden?

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Originally posted by RugBug:

I think the conversation about not feeling different was suppose to make us believe that the sex wasn't really the transformative factor for Fess. However, the message is muddied because it happened. And then there's Fess at the end, defying his father, sitting with his business front and center. His action, and the camera angle tell us he grew some balls, but we can't really determine what part of his time with Inara helped him do that.

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And I will now outright make the contention that her having sex with Fess is the rub in this episode. Other than ratings(and questions of her contract), could it possibly have been done the other way?

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Originally posted by kpo:

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Inara fans, what episode/scene in the series does sum up Inara and her Companioning, really well?

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The scene in the pilot where she lays her hand on the Shepherd's head, in a sort of absolution. That pretty much told me right there who and what Inara was.

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Originally posted by fearthebunnyman:

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Originally posted by kpo:

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Inara fans, what episode/scene in the series does sum up Inara and her Companioning, really well?

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The scene in the pilot where she lays her hand on the Shepherd's head, in a sort of absolution. That pretty much told me right there who and what Inara was.

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I think the answers you're going to get to this question are going to depend on what people think of Inara's function in the show.

That actually was the one scene where I went "Huh".
I mean, I knew what the writers were trying to do to the audience: "aaugh! gut reaction! totally zomg this preacher dude is like confessing to the prostitute, man! Totally wth?"

But I don't know what they were trying to do to the show by having that scene. I mean, Book has that bit and then he's all peachy the rest of the time. It just feels really out of place given the rest of his episode/show "arc" that we see, and Inara's also.

If it really was just to say about the characters to the audience (I apologize in advance) "we're not in Kansas any more", then I get it. But anything else baffles me.
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Of course, it seems like most everyone disagrees with me that it was Nandi who was companioning Mal,

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So she uses her companioning abilities as payment. It's an exchange, just like what Inara does. Mal doesn't seem to realize it though.

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Does she seem like the kind of person who can afford just taking a fancy to someone?

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Unless you think there's another reason Mal was motivated to help?

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In any case, what's the difference between sex obligated by money and sex by social obligation?

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Originally posted by kpo:

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You don't see any kind of connection there, between the two characters? - "Lady, you are my kind of stupid.", "Malcolm Reynolds I've been waiting for you to kiss me since I showed you my guns...", etc.? What about the vulnerable: "I aint her."? Why would Nandi bring Inara up if she's just charitably trying to seduce Mal to help him *get over* Inara...??

Heads should roll

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This. Don't forget that Inara, when she announces her intention to leave, conflates Mal and Nandi--or at least their leadership qualities. She clearly sees the connection, too.

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Originally posted by fearthebunnyman:
See, my whole thing with Inara was, when does the Companion end, and Inara begin, and vice versa? At that moment, Book recognized Inara as a person of status, respect, wisdom, etc, and he came to her for that. And I never found book all that preachy, and when he was, it was certainly never to Inara...he treated her with deference, and it always stuck me (and this is just my own reading) that that was due to her station, as a Companion...which is simultaneously also who she is (in addition to what). It's never explicitly spelled out WHY Companions are as highly regarded as they are, rather it's shown to us in a myriad different ways.

Quick add - In the commentary for the pilot, Joss mentions that when Simon goes up to Inara's shuttle, ostentatiosly for medical supplies, he is actually going up there to confess, about Kaylle and the trouble he felt he caused. And we see him do that repeatedly throughout the series, going to Inara to confess, or seek counsel or comfort. He doesn't open up like that to anyone else, not even Book to whom he's somewhat closed off, which wouldn't seem to make sense as he obviously has respect for Book's religion, and Book IS the preacher. But Simon grew up with Companions, and naturally gravitates to Inara to fulfill that role instead. So there's another example of her status as a Companion and what that might signify to people in the Core. It's obviously more than sex.

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I said after that one scene Book was peachy, not preachy, fearthebunnyman. Meaning, it seemed like a weird blip in his arc.

And Simon, underneath all that shuai, appears to have a very practical Core-culture mind. At that point, with the big Kaylee mess, having "the Ambassador" in your corner might prevent you and yours getting thrown out the airlock...

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Originally posted by AnotherSky:
Yeah, and apparently mine came off strong too.

Perhaps peachy was not the best word. I meant that Book has big internal struggles yes, (and maybe that talk led to others, we never saw them)but that this one seemed odd given the others.

Please don't think I mean Simon is a weasel. He's about the farthest of those on the ship from weasel.

BUT if she has this confessor-priestess-counselor like function though, why would he NOT go to her for succor and aid against the Mean Old Man of Space with ye old Airlock at his disposal?


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Originally posted by Stegasaurus:
I'm suprised no one as of yet has mentioned the geisha. When I watched the show for the first time, I immediately thought of Inara as a geisha with more spice (after having watched Memoirs of a Geisha).

In Wikipedia it states the following about the origins of a geisha:

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In early seventeenth-century Japan (long before the word geisha was ever used), the predecessor of the geisha, a combination of actress and prostitute, worked on the stages set in the driver[vague] river bed of the River Kamo in Kyoto. The line between actress and prostitute was then blurred. The women would preform erotic dances and skits for their audiences. This new type of performance was dubbed kabuku, meaning "to be wild and outrageous". They[who?] called her dances kabuki, which was the beginning of kabuki theater.[1]

Traditional Japanese views of sex were very relaxed. It was a society that embraced sexual delights and where men were not constrained to be faithful to their wives. In fact it was socially acceptable to be in love with one's wife, but only what was considered a "professional" woman.[vague] For sexual enjoyment and romantic attachment, men did not go to their wives, but to courtesans. In order to maintain this profession, the Japanese government created "pleasure quarters" where the courtesans could reside and work and men could go to relax and enjoy the entertainment.[1]

These pleasure quarters quickly became glamorous entertainment centers that offered far more that just sex. The highly accomplished courtesans of these districts entertained their clients by dancing, singing, and playing music. Some were even renowned poets and calligraphers. Gradually, they all became specialized and the new profession, purely of entertainment, arose. It was near the turn of the eighteenth century that the first entertainers of the pleasure quarters, called geisha, appeared. The very first geishas were men, entertaining customers waiting to see the most popular and gifted courtesans.[1]

Around 1760, women began to join men in the art of the geisha and very quickly outnumbered the men. The first woman to use the term "geisha" was an Edo prostitute named Kikuya and[vague] became a full-time entertainer. Soon, many women, whether they sold sex or not, began using the term geisha. Doing so was a way of acquiring respectability and proving that they were professionals.[dubious – discuss] The geisha who worked within the pleasure quarters were essentially imprisoned and strictly forbidden to sell sex in order to protect the business of the courtesans. Geisha who worked outside the pleasure quarters, however, could do as they pleased. Eventually, the gaudy courtesans began to fall out of fashion and the geisha were seen as the chic and desirable entertainers they are in modern Japan.

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While I realize the geisha is Japanese and not Chinese, what in the world would have stopped Joss from utilizing some Japanese cultural tidbits to further the excitement of his (our) show? Absolutely nothing.

As for it bothering or not bothering me? Not in the least. Our society is going to change 360 degrees 10 times over before we reach the timeframe Firefly/Serentiy is in, and I like to think myself a progressive thinker.

My wife, on the other hand, does not and would not approve.

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Originally posted by fearthebunnyman:

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Originally posted by AnotherSky:
Yeah, and apparently mine came off strong too.

Perhaps peachy was not the best word. I meant that Book has big internal struggles yes, (and maybe that talk led to others, we never saw them)but that this one seemed odd given the others.

Please don't think I mean Simon is a weasel. He's about the farthest of those on the ship from weasel.

BUT if she has this confessor-priestess-counselor like function though, why would he NOT go to her for succor and aid against the Mean Old Man of Space with ye old Airlock at his disposal?


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Problem with teh internets is tonal fluctuations get lost in the bytes ;)

I'll go ahead and concede with your Book argument for now, as it's been awhile since I've watched the DVD's, and shame on me I never spent as much time analyzing his character as I have some of the others. So your take may well be more accurate than mine.

And NOW I see where you are coming from with your last sentence...but I can counter that by pointing out that Simon witnessed the exchange between Mal, Inara, and Book at the beginning of the pilot, when Mal basically disrespected her in front of the new passengers for her "whoring". So Simon probably reasonably formed the impression at the time that Inara's opinion may not carry that much weight with the Captain. Mal also got pissed off at her trying to "tell him what to do" while Kaylee lay bleeding on the floor. So I don't know that Simon would have seen her as someone who would be a powerful advocate on his behalf, influence-on-the-ship-and-over-the-Captain-wise, at that time.

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So Simon probably reasonably formed the impression at the time that Inara's opinion may not carry that much weight with the Captain.

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Mal tells Inara at that point "Might be best" she DOES get off his ship, and then reiterates that she has not part of "this business"

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Originally posted by fearthebunnyman:
Mal tells Inara at that point "Might be best" she DOES get off his ship, and then reiterates that she has not part of "this business" - i.e., the running of his ship. Again, nothing much pointing to Inara's supposed influence with Mal at that point. The situation btwn Mal and Inara at the beginning of the series could just as easily be read to a newcomer as an affair gone bad, which means their bickering could be leading up to a huge explosion btwn the two of them - I'm just arguing here from the context of it being the first ep, and therefore the first time the passengers are meeting these people who live on the ship. Hindsight's 20/20, but do we know for sure what it would have looked like to them right at that time?

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I feel like this is starting to get away from Inara's companion thing here, though...we need to find a way to discuss her without bringing in Mal all the time

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Originally posted by AnotherSky:

My whole point was about SIMON'S possible psychology in going to Inara, if it had indeed had anything to do with hanging on to her highfalutin apron strings against the captain.

WHETHER or not it would have kept him and River from being kicked off the ship is not my point.

As for Simon's intuition, he IS River's sibling. There isn't an extreme amount of (realistic) weight in that, but there's definitely some, particularly since he does play it like that, the similarities.

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Good idea. But Inara the character, show-wise, is REALLY bound up in Mal and his own personal issues. I'd venture to say that's WHY she's a Companion specifically, other than getting attention with the s-word.

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But yes, back to Companion-ing. I didn't mean to sound so uncompromising earlier. More tea as we continue our discussion? Lol...

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Originally posted by Bytemite:
And if you drink ENOUGH, you run fast enough that you get airborne. What's not to like?

Yeah, I concede the point about the newbies seeing right away about Mal and Inara, at least in that particular instance. In other cases, it has been pretty much an instant recognition. Atherton, anyone?

But I also like the idea of semi-intuitive Simon, too, and core world values guiding him to a familiar form of confessor.

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Originally posted by KrelleK:
Well I did not get bugged as the question was asked then I saw it the first time, and well and still does not, maybbe because the first time i saw it i got completely lost in Summers characther: River:-)

It still happens i get a little teary eyed then I see River in some of the scenes, Like the closet scene with Simon in Serenity(movie) or the injection scene in Ariel before they shall get down to St. Lucy´s hospital

it also happens then I see waiting in the wings(Angel) :-)

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Originally posted by Bytemite:
Edit: Also, I have an interesting subpoint to bring up here tomorrow, actually related to Inara and her job and whether she LIKES being a companion. With AnotherSky's permission, of course.

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Originally posted by AnotherSky:

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Originally posted by KrelleK:
Well I did not get bugged as the question was asked then I saw it the first time, and well and still does not, maybbe because the first time i saw it i got completely lost in Summers characther: River:-)

It still happens i get a little teary eyed then I see River in some of the scenes, Like the closet scene with Simon in Serenity(movie) or the injection scene in Ariel before they shall get down to St. Lucy´s hospital

it also happens then I see waiting in the wings(Angel) :-)

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I think you're a bit "lost in the woods", KrelleK.
Follow the crickets, and you'll make it back to the thread you intended to post on.

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Going for a ride.

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Originally posted by AnotherSky:

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Originally posted by KrelleK:
Well I did not get bugged as the question was asked then I saw it the first time, and well and still does not, maybbe because the first time i saw it i got completely lost in Summers characther: River:-)

It still happens i get a little teary eyed then I see River in some of the scenes, Like the closet scene with Simon in Serenity(movie) or the injection scene in Ariel before they shall get down to St. Lucy´s hospital

it also happens then I see waiting in the wings(Angel) :-)

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I think you're a bit "lost in the woods", KrelleK.
Follow the crickets, and you'll make it back to the thread you intended to post on.

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Going for a ride.

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