GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

Chronology of Rivers escape and the Alliance pursuit.? (spoilers)

POSTED BY: CALHOUN
UPDATED: Tuesday, October 4, 2005 12:30
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 3446
PAGE 1 of 1

Tuesday, October 4, 2005 3:07 AM

CALHOUN


Something doesnt feel right.

At the beginning of Serenity Simon busts river out, the operative arrives on scene and begins the tracking. In Firefly though, the hands of blue men are the ones doing the tracking.

I havent read the comics yet but I am lead to believe that only after the hands of blue men are defeated does the alliance brings in the operative. So what was the operative doing on the case straight away in the movie?

Or have I been misinformed about what occurs in the comics and really the operative and the hands of blue men were tracking River at the same time?

How much time is meant to have elapsed from Rivers escape to the setting of the movie?

Can you see whats shaping my thoughts?

Or where am I in error?


NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, October 4, 2005 3:47 AM

THATSASQUATCH


The comic book series is set after the Firefly and immediately before the movie. It explains why Book and Inara left the ship. It ends with the Alliance assigning the Operative to find River.

So the Operative's inquiries at the Academy happen during the time frame of the movie, not immediately after the escape.

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, October 4, 2005 7:26 AM

ODDNESS2HER


Dobson failed. The Blue Hand men failed. Jubal Early failed. They must have finally decided that amateur hour was over and called in one of their very top men. River had been loose for nearly a year by the time The Operative was assigned to her.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, October 4, 2005 7:43 AM

RIJPE


I may be the only one, but...

For quite a ways into the movie, I was convinced that the beginning of the movie showed a SECOND escape for River from the Alliance. Simon was too good pretending to be an Alliance official(far from his "mud buying days" in Jaynestown) for me to believe that this was a flashback to River's first escape from the Alliance. Also, I can't help but feel that Joss actually changed his mind about how River was rescued (by Simon physically rescuing her) than he did in Firefly (made it sound like Simon just had to front money, and didn't see her until she came out of the crate). I'm sure he did this to help newbies understand what was going on, and to add drama --I'm just saying.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, October 4, 2005 10:32 AM

CALHOUN


Quote:

oddness2her wrote:
Tuesday, October 04, 2005 07:26
Dobson failed. The Blue Hand men failed. Jubal Early failed. They must have finally decided that amateur hour was over and called in one of their very top men. River had been loose for nearly a year by the time The Operative was assigned to her.



Exactly my point. If the operative was brought into the attack only AFTER Dobson, Blue hands and Jubal Early had all failed then what was he doing on scene right after River escaped?

It seems implied that the operative was on the job as soon as River escaped which means it took him a good long while to find her(18 months?). In fact he must have been the worst of all Rivers pursuers. Doesnt make sense to me.







NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, October 4, 2005 10:51 AM

ODDNESS2HER


Quote:

Originally posted by Calhoun:
Quote:

oddness2her wrote:
Tuesday, October 04, 2005 07:26
Dobson failed. The Blue Hand men failed. Jubal Early failed. They must have finally decided that amateur hour was over and called in one of their very top men. River had been loose for nearly a year by the time The Operative was assigned to her.



Exactly my point. If the operative was brought into the attack only AFTER Dobson, Blue hands and Jubal Early had all failed then what was he doing on scene right after River escaped?

It seems implied that the operative was on the job as soon as River escaped which means it took him a good long while to find her(18 months?). In fact he must have been the worst of all Rivers pursuers. Doesnt make sense to me.









He wasn't given the assignment immediately. He was in the records room, remember? Looking at the recording of River's escape, which had taken place months before. He had just gotten the job of retrieving her after every other attempt had failed.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, October 4, 2005 10:59 AM

LOGGERHEAD


Quote:

Originally posted by Calhoun:
It seems implied that the operative was on the job as soon as River escaped which means it took him a good long while to find her(18 months?). In fact he must have been the worst of all Rivers pursuers. Doesnt make sense to me.



I didn't see it that way. The Blue Hands guys worked for Dobson. They officed at his facility. They were ready to kill the Operative at Dobson's command.

Dobson's failure to which the Operative refers isn't the River project (which was clearly a success) or the escape (which the Operative acknowledges could not have been prevented) but in fact the failure to re-capture her in a timely fashion.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, October 4, 2005 11:11 AM

KOZURE


Chronology-wise, Mal states in the movie that the Tams have been on his "boat" for eight months already. There is no sense of how long the Tams have been on the run at the beginning of "Serenity (the pilot episode)", but since River is still in a box, you get the sense that they haven't been running long.

Inara says that she's been on Mal's ship for eight months ("The Train Job"). Kaylee says she hasn't had anything twix her nethers for more than a year.

Remember also that Whedon is self-confessedly bad at chronology - witness the variable age of Angel.

Still - eight months is plenty of time for all of the events of the series to have taken place. In addition, it's apparent that the Operative, as others above point out, has recently been assigned to the case because others have failed. The Operative is researching the events of the escape and makes the connection (presumably for the first time since the escape) that River has been exposed to the knowledge of Miranda that the top officials of the Alliance government have been hiding. The search kicks into high gear because previously they were simply looking for a lost top secret weapon. Now (at the start of Serenity the movie) they're looking for a lost top secret weapon that also carries in her head a secret with potentially regime-toppling consequences.

It's apparent why the bloodiness of the search is ratcheted up a few notches as a result.

Kozure the Kamikaze Highlander

Proud Citizen of Canada-That-Was

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, October 4, 2005 11:26 AM

STAKETHELURK


Others have already answered this, but I’ll give it a go. In the film there is no evidence that the Operative was on the case immediately after River escaped. Instead, he seems to be there an indeterminate amount of time after her escape, in the records room. Non-fans will assume that the Operative is the first guy sent after River and that he’s sent pretty quick after her getaway, and that is good. Keeps the mainstream audience from being confused. But there is nothing in the film that contradicts the attempts to recover River as seen in the series.

In fact, the film better explains the motivations of the Blue Hands:

Blue Hand: “You spoke with the prisoners?” (reaches for little handwand of death)

That’s why the Blue Hands killed all those Feds, to make sure the secret wasn’t even accidentally leaked. That's why they were on the case--they just weren't as good as the Operative, the Alliance's biggest gun whose called out last. So the film actually explains events in the series better, in some cases.

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, October 4, 2005 12:15 PM

MER


Woo! I knew it was the blue hands guys! It's amazing how we could recongize this when they didn't wear their little suits (as we all thought to be gloves)

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, October 4, 2005 12:30 PM

ZEEK


Quote:

Originally posted by Rijpe:
I may be the only one, but...

For quite a ways into the movie, I was convinced that the beginning of the movie showed a SECOND escape for River from the Alliance. Simon was too good pretending to be an Alliance official(far from his "mud buying days" in Jaynestown) for me to believe that this was a flashback to River's first escape from the Alliance. Also, I can't help but feel that Joss actually changed his mind about how River was rescued (by Simon physically rescuing her) than he did in Firefly (made it sound like Simon just had to front money, and didn't see her until she came out of the crate). I'm sure he did this to help newbies understand what was going on, and to add drama --I'm just saying.


A few people thought that but if you listen to what was said between the Operative and the dude who ran the experiments, you'll hear that it was the first River rescue. He said that the Doctor spent his entire fortune and gave up a career in medicine to get her out. If it was a second escape, he wouldn't have had a fortune or a career in medicine to give up.

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

YOUR OPTIONS

NEW POSTS TODAY

USERPOST DATE

FFF.NET SOCIAL