GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

BOX offices WTF

POSTED BY: THEMANTHEYCALLEDJAMES
UPDATED: Wednesday, February 8, 2006 07:13
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 7210
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Monday, February 6, 2006 12:36 PM

THEMANTHEYCALLEDJAMES


I was just at movies.com checking out the box office results and "When a stranger calles" ( i was dragged to it by my gf) made 22 million. WHAT!!!! Just more proof that they really screwed up the marketing for Serenity.


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Monday, February 6, 2006 12:39 PM

NDRAGE85


the recent box office numbers have made me really lose faith(more faith that is) in the American movie audience. I mean, last weekend Big Momma's House 2 made something like 28 million on opening weekend. there is no justice in this 'verse of stupid people.

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Monday, February 6, 2006 1:11 PM

20THCENTFOXHATER


why don't we just leave the final word to what I've been saying for years: PEOPLE. ARE. STUPID.

especially those of us that live in North America. And those of you that live in the USA.

"I aim to misbehave."
"Can't do something smart, do something right".

HOMER: "Oh Lisa, you and your stories; Bart is a vampire, beer kills brain cells. Now lets go back to that... building thingy... where our beds and T.V.... is".

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Monday, February 6, 2006 1:18 PM

NANDIFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by ndrage85:
the recent box office numbers have made me really lose faith(more faith that is) in the American movie audience. I mean, last weekend Big Momma's House 2 made something like 28 million on opening weekend. there is no justice in this 'verse of stupid people.



Amen! I am seriously surprised that the majority of Americans aren't just sitting in the streets, drooling over themselves and grunting about how great an actor Martin Lawrence is! It makes me so sad sometimes to have been born in a nation of nimrods!

"If they've got guns or brains at all."
"They've got guns."

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Monday, February 6, 2006 1:20 PM

RITTER


Don't go calling all of us stupid. I live in the USA, but I haven't paid for a bad movie in quite some time. In fact, I generally pirate movies before going to see them in theaters if I think they might be bad for the sole purpose of not feeding the crap movies money. If the MPAA wants me to stop being a pirate, they need to give me a hell of a good reason. Serenity was a good start. Lets see a sequel now.

- Ritter

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Monday, February 6, 2006 1:27 PM

CHINDI


LOL

well you know...I believe that a dumb and medicated populace is easier to control (see Alliance) and we have lately seen a shocking lack of funding in schools and an even more shockin increase in drug ads and the medication of kids for being kids -er- ADD and adults for everything else!! so the fact that movies and box office reflects the paying public.. well, is no real surprise!

I do NOT believe all Americans are dumb (hell I are one my own self) but I DO think there is an effort by the government to dumb it all down... IMHO...

pass the pax and shut up.. that's the ticket!

now last weekend I went to see the three burials of Melquiades Estrada, TransAmerica and the New World.. but I live in a more progressive area...

Chindi, falling off the soapbox, whoops

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Monday, February 6, 2006 2:26 PM

NWUKSTEVE


As much as I would to think us Brits have better taste, the fact that Serenity reached #1 here was a fluke and overall it didn't do that well here either. So don't be so hard on yourselves about your taste in movies.

However, you should be ashamed of your frightening low acceptance of Evolution, your high acceptance of right-to-bear-arms, your massively fuel-inefficient cars, Fox, ... :-)

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Monday, February 6, 2006 2:33 PM

CHINDI


NWUKSTEVE

oh not you DIDN'T say Fox!?! lol and here I thought that was a commie red invention.. or some axis of evil thingy... man you just can't never tell anymore.. those fox guys look like humans..



Chindi (watchin BSG lately.. cylons=fox)

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Monday, February 6, 2006 3:13 PM

20THCENTFOXHATER


hey, nwuksteve, i live in Canada, right next to the States (not that many of them know that), and i have to put up with all that crap you just mentioned EVERY DAY (frightening low acceptance of Evolution, your high acceptance of right-to-bear-arms, your massively fuel-inefficient cars, Fox).

while I do accept the right to bear arms, I am not accepting of the high rate of allowing a bunch of dumb hicks to own a gun (ie- ranchers in the region of Montana, Wyoming; the US military; ignorant neo-religious people, ie George Bush; etc, etc).

I am NOT saying ALL Americans are like this, but step into the world's shoes; this is the GENERALLY ACCEPTED VIEW OF AMERICANS.

And don't forget your obsession with huge, good ol' gas guzzling American trucks and SUV's, then driving 100 miles home to Suburbia, and then ignoring your kids because you're "tired" (all the while, they are becoming just as ignorant as YOU). Then to top it off, ignore what the whole world is saying about you: "YOU GUYS ARE IGNORANT AND BRAIN-DEAD".

Re: this is NOT entirely MY view, but rather a quick dose of reality. If you don't like it, read your constitution (and the rest of the "Free" world for that matter) that allows people the freedom of speech. But, oh ya, YOUR President passed the Patriot Act. I guess I should be expecting the FBI and CIA at my door in 3...2...1...

"I aim to misbehave."
"Can't do something smart, do something right".

HOMER: "Oh Lisa, you and your stories; Bart is a vampire, beer kills brain cells. Now lets go back to that... building thingy... where our beds and T.V.... is".

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Monday, February 6, 2006 3:30 PM

NOVASTARCLOUD


I happen to own a police riot 12-guage shot gun (I'm from Texas).

And you can have it when you pry it out of my cold, DEAD hand....

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Monday, February 6, 2006 3:38 PM

CHRISTHECYNIC


Quote:

Originally posted by NovaStarCloud:
I happen to own a police riot 12-guage shot gun (I'm from Texas).

And you can have it when you pry it out of my cold, DEAD hand....


Now I want everyone to take a moment and think about that invitation. A long moment.

You just, verbally, put me in your will provided I'm the one who robs you first (of course it isn‘t actually stealing since you said I could have it), and the implication is that you're requested assistance in suicide.

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Monday, February 6, 2006 3:44 PM

20THCENTFOXHATER


NovaStarCloud, I don't need to pry it out of your cold dead hand, because I know I'm better than you, and besides you'll probably all kill yourselves first. And then I can come in and take it with no conflict.

"I aim to misbehave."
"Can't do something smart, do something right".

HOMER: "Oh Lisa, you and your stories; Bart is a vampire, beer kills brain cells. Now lets go back to that... building thingy... where our beds and T.V.... is".

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Monday, February 6, 2006 3:46 PM

ALTA


Please remember that no matter where we come from, we are still all Browncoats.

*****************************
There's no place I can be
Since I found Serenity

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Monday, February 6, 2006 3:50 PM

CHINDI


Don't you just love it when ppl paint with the broad brush.. much quicker that way!! LOL and there is no emotion for sarcasm, sadly...

hell Mal packs a weapon as does Zoe.. so... uhm...



ETA you betcha Alta All browncoats.. except the trolls.. though that fur MIGHT be brown....

Chindi (reading the Constitution.. such a LOVELY document...)

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Monday, February 6, 2006 3:54 PM

CHRISTHECYNIC


Quote:

Originally posted by 20thCentFoxHater:
Re: this is NOT entirely MY view, but rather a quick dose of reality.


Hey, I don't need a quick dose of reality, I have to put up with my leaders every day and next to Iraqis my people are the ones getting killed based on their stupidity.

And as for what the rest of the world thinks, I was in Paris before Bush even came to power (they hate us with a passion there, the only French people who were nice to any American I saw were tourists with distinctly non-Parisian accents.)

I was also in Rome when three million people took to the streets to protest the war (actually it was to protest bush going to war, we weren't there yet.)

What I remember is that in Italy in what was essentially an Anti-Bush march the people had no problem with Americans walking for peace alongside them.

What that one city on that one day taught me about the rest of the world is this:
People who are not ignorant do not confuse governments and people, and they don't make assumptions based on stereotypes. In other words they are just like Americans.

Of course that only accounts for a very small part of the world, but I've been to Canada too so I can say it's a good deal farther and further than your nation.

Anyone who thinks about Americans (as opposed to America or current American leaders)they way you say they do doesn't deserve my respect any more than the Americans who actually meet their shallow stereotype deserve theirs.

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Monday, February 6, 2006 4:01 PM

CHRISTHECYNIC


Quote:

Originally posted by Chindi:
Don't you just love it when ppl paint with the broad brush.. much quicker that way!! LOL and there is no emotion for sarcasm, sadly...


If you have to tell them it is sarcastic either you failed or they don't deserve to get it.

Quote:

ETA you betcha Alta All browncoats.. except the trolls.. though that fur MIGHT be brown....

Politics never broke us up before, and it won’t now. As for trolls, they’re cute, they deserve, affection, pity, and gratitude for the humor they inadvertently bring to us.

Quote:

Chindi (reading the Constitution.. such a LOVELY document...)

Ignored all too often, of course it does have slavery writen in, that's sort of a black eye. On the other hand France (did I mention I've been there) gets a new government an average of every 24 years since the revolution, we've only had need of one in all that time. (We did have the Articles of Confederation, but that was over before the French started slaughtering people.)

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Monday, February 6, 2006 4:33 PM

DC4BS


Quote:

Originally posted by christhecynic:
Politics never broke us up before, and it won’t now. As for trolls, they’re cute, they deserve, affection, pity, and gratitude for the humor they inadvertently bring to us.



Well, except for the blue haired ones... Green and pink haired trolls is OK by me. Them blue ones is EVIL!

------------------------------------------
dc4bs

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Monday, February 6, 2006 7:05 PM

RITTER


*Drags the fire blanket out of the corner and pats everyone down.*

There. No more fire. Now stop talking like a bunch of morons. We are all fighting the same fight here, no reason to bring the real world into our 'verse.

- Ritter

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Monday, February 6, 2006 7:13 PM

THEPISTONENGINE


People are stupid everywhere. I just don't understand why Americans see themselves, and are seen, as stupid beyond the norm. They aren't. The norms of stupidity know no bounds.

Quote:

Originally posted by 20thCentFoxHater:
why don't we just leave the final word to what I've been saying for years: PEOPLE. ARE. STUPID.

especially those of us that live in North America. And those of you that live in the USA.

"I aim to misbehave."
"Can't do something smart, do something right".

HOMER: "Oh Lisa, you and your stories; Bart is a vampire, beer kills brain cells. Now lets go back to that... building thingy... where our beds and T.V.... is".


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Monday, February 6, 2006 8:30 PM

CHRISMOORHEAD


It is the prerogative of every government, eventually, to make it's people believe that they are completely reliant on it. The people, who reap the benefits of welfare and pet medication delivered right to their front door (glee!) are not usually the types to complain. They just go about their day, never learning to procure water or food for themselves, never learning how to defend themselves, always looking for the faster easier solution where they can do less work. Never crosses their minds that any event big and unexpected enough would leave them helpless.

This is one of the reasons I like Firefly. While the whole renegade thing is a bit cliché', the characters from the show genuinely seem self reliant, and dare I say, offended at the idea of asking for anything from a government that rewards a dubious virtue like obedience.

All governments, The Alliance, American, English, Canadian, Japanese... they can all shove it.

"Deep in the battlefield covered in blood
Lies an Airborne Ranger dying in the mud
He fought for his country and he died like a man
Though some people back home just wouldn't understand"

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Tuesday, February 7, 2006 5:26 AM

NOVASTARCLOUD





I'm on the losing side here. And I'm sorry I made everybody mad. Please accept my apologies. I'm not normally someone who rocks the boat.

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Tuesday, February 7, 2006 6:42 AM

THEMANTHEYCALLEDJAMES


I don't think WE AMERICANS have bad taste in Movies, Everyone who saw the movie loved it ITS just that it got really crappy publicity.

People won't go see a movie unless they have accutally heard about it. I haven't see Big mommas house 2 but I beat its got one thing Serenity doesn't AN ADVERTISING BUDGET!

I remember Whedon saying that didn't have big stars but thats less important than you think. Can anybody name that chick from "When a stranger calls"? No you can't and it STILL is going to out do Serenity.

Gigli had BOTH memebers of beniffier and it still rolled in less than 10 million

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Tuesday, February 7, 2006 7:16 AM

CERIL


I actually watched BMH2 and i thought it would suck. My GF dragged me to see it but i was surprised it was actually decent.. wierd bcuz i never heard of serenity and just decided to check it out and w/ low expectation i thought it was the best movie ive seen in a long time.

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Tuesday, February 7, 2006 7:51 AM

BROWNCOAT1

May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.


Quote:

Originally posted by Chindi:
Don't you just love it when ppl paint with the broad brush.. much quicker that way!! LOL and there is no emotion for sarcasm, sadly...





Yep. Every once in a while I forget that we browncoats are from all over the world & not really the great big happy family I sometimes thing we are in my own mind. Someone pipes off w/ their broad generalizations and because of where I was born I am labeled every uncomplimentary thing a person can be called.

Yes, people are entitled to their opinions, but every one has them & a lot of them are wrong, misinformed, bigoted, down right ignorant, or are just plain ol' go sa.

Thanks for the "reality" check FoxHater. You reminded me that some less than shiny people can call themselves "browncoat" too.

__________________________________________

"May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one."

Richmond, VA & surrounding area Firefly Fans:

http://tv.groups.yahoo.com/group/richmondbrowncoats/

http://www.richmondbrowncoats.org


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Tuesday, February 7, 2006 7:56 AM

STORYMARK


Come on, guys. If you're surprised, or even angry that those movies opened better, than Serenity, you havn't been paying much attention to the film indusrty for the last, oh 25 years or so.

Those movies (lowbrow comedy and horror) appeal to teen audiences. They all go opening weekend, the movies make bank for one, maybe two eeks, then go away.

Serenity, like it or not, was not a high priority for teen audiences. Would not have been, regardless of marketing. Because, let's face it, teens don't generally go for the high quality films.

Honestly, how many movies did you go to as a teen that you would never pay to see now?

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Tuesday, February 7, 2006 8:24 AM

CHRISTHECYNIC


Quote:

Originally posted by BrownCoat1:
Yep. Every once in a while I forget that we browncoats are from all over the world & not really the great big happy family I sometimes thing we are in my own mind.


I think you go too far, like any big happy family we have political and philosophical squabbles, we'd have economic ones too if we all had the same bank account.

Doesn't make us any less family, certainly not less big, and people who never fight aren't happy they're blissful, which is something I don't like due to the lack of variation.

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Tuesday, February 7, 2006 8:30 AM

MCALLEN


Quote:

Originally posted by 20thCentFoxHater:
hey, nwuksteve, i live in Canada, right next to the States (not that many of them know that), and i have to put up with all that crap you just mentioned EVERY DAY (frightening low acceptance of Evolution, your high acceptance of right-to-bear-arms, your massively fuel-inefficient cars, Fox).

while I do accept the right to bear arms, I am not accepting of the high rate of allowing a bunch of dumb hicks to own a gun (ie- ranchers in the region of Montana, Wyoming; the US military; ignorant neo-religious people, ie George Bush; etc, etc).

I am NOT saying ALL Americans are like this, but step into the world's shoes; this is the GENERALLY ACCEPTED VIEW OF AMERICANS.

And don't forget your obsession with huge, good ol' gas guzzling American trucks and SUV's, then driving 100 miles home to Suburbia, and then ignoring your kids because you're "tired" (all the while, they are becoming just as ignorant as YOU). Then to top it off, ignore what the whole world is saying about you: "YOU GUYS ARE IGNORANT AND BRAIN-DEAD".

Re: this is NOT entirely MY view, but rather a quick dose of reality. If you don't like it, read your constitution (and the rest of the "Free" world for that matter) that allows people the freedom of speech. But, oh ya, YOUR President passed the Patriot Act. I guess I should be expecting the FBI and CIA at my door in 3...2...1...




Hmmm. I wonder what it's like to be perfect (and to have poor grammar and be unable to properly punctuate a rant)?

MAL: We're still flying.
SIMON: That's not much.
MAL: It's enough.

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Tuesday, February 7, 2006 8:30 AM

PROSERPINE


Hold up, hold up - I am technically a teenager and an American, but it was I who dragged my 20-something Dominican boyfriend twenty miles out of our way to go see Serenity. And do you know why we had to travel those extra twenty miles? Because Serenity was not playing in our usual movie theater. Do you know why none of the scifi geeks living in my dorm expressed interest in going to see it with us? Because they had never heard of it. Hell, the only reason I went to see it was because I was intrigued by one of the few tv spots actually aired and had a midsemester break coming up.

"Dear Diary, Today I was pompous and my sister was crazy. Today we were kidnapped by hill folk never to be seen again. It was the best day ever."

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Tuesday, February 7, 2006 8:40 AM

STORYMARK


No offense to teenagers intended. I teach highschool - which I wouldn't do if I didn't like 'em. And I have had a handfull of students happily recognize the Mal figure standing in my office window. But those movies (Stranger, Big Momma) are aimed primarily at teens, and teens are the primary group that goes to 'em.

All I'm saying is that I wish more teens did watch quality films like Serenity. But more often than not, I'll hear them talking about how excited they are to see Saw 4 or American Pie 27. There are always exceptions (I was the only teen I knew that tracked down Kurosawa films), but unfortunetly, they are often not the rule.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Tuesday, February 7, 2006 8:42 AM

CHRISTHECYNIC


Quote:

Originally posted by proserpine:
Do you know why none of the scifi geeks living in my dorm expressed interest in going to see it with us? Because they had never heard of it.


Well for the love of god get them to see it now.

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Tuesday, February 7, 2006 8:52 AM

PROSERPINE


Quote:

Originally posted by christhecynic:
Quote:

Originally posted by proserpine:
Do you know why none of the scifi geeks living in my dorm expressed interest in going to see it with us? Because they had never heard of it.


Well for the love of god get them to see it now.



I'm way ahead of you - just had a marathon Firefly session last Sunday with two of my guy friends, actually. Before that I even got my non-geek roommate interested in the 'verse by showing her the pilot.

"Dear Diary, Today I was pompous and my sister was crazy. Today we were kidnapped by hill folk never to be seen again. It was the best day ever."

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Tuesday, February 7, 2006 12:02 PM

THEMANTHEYCALLEDJAMES


WOW I'm suprised how active this thread got. My Thread about Sheppard being an EX-operative got no love.

yeah, you maybe right Big momma will make alot of cash now but the DVD won't be selling as well as Firefly/Serenity one year from now.

I take offence to the teenager thing because I still am one (for about a week or so) and I still go to see quality films.


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Tuesday, February 7, 2006 12:08 PM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by themantheycalledJames:

I take offence to the teenager thing because I still am one (for about a week or so) and I still go to see quality films.




Like I said, no offense intended. Again, there are always exceptions, I know several myself, and you seem to be one.

But honestly, when you were in high school (I'm assuming you're out now), were the majority of your classmates talking about quality films, or the usually generic fare that is targeted at teens?

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Tuesday, February 7, 2006 12:18 PM

20THCENTFOXHATER


Wow. What can I say. So, I have to put up with people who are unable to accept a stereotype of their own culture, and I also have to put up with people insulting my grammar.

For all of you out there who cannot accept being told what other people think of them, it just shows what their government and society has done to them.

mcallen, if you are an American, what is the generally accepted view of Canadians in your country? Could it be this: ""? You may not believe what that view is, but the North American media (particularly American media) has a great influence on people's opinion.

I DO NOT believe that ALL Americans are stupid, ignorant, slobs, but many are just the same as Canadians; and vice versa. BUT, there is an over-abundance of stupidity in American media, and that stupidity is translated to how the citizens are viewed. Look no further than American Idol or The Simpson's.

I KNOW that The Simpson's is NOT an accurate view of Americans, but rather a select few. The same goes for American Idol, except for the fact that Idol is awful and I do not understand why people watch that crap.

If any of you (mcallen) need more clarification on MY opinion or a generally accepted stereotype of Americans from an outside source, just ask.

"I aim to misbehave."
"Can't do something smart, do something right".

HOMER: "Oh Lisa, you and your stories; Bart is a vampire, beer kills brain cells. Now lets go back to that... building thingy... where our beds and T.V.... is".

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Tuesday, February 7, 2006 1:06 PM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


Speaking of the simpsons:

Doctor: Mr. Burns, I'm afraid you are the sickest man in the United States. You have everything.

Mr. Burns: You mean I have pneumonia?

Doctor: Yes.

Mr. Burns: Juvenile diabetes?

Doctor: Yes.

Mr. Burns: Hysterical pregnancy?

Doctor: A little bit, yes. You also have several diseases that have just been discovered - in you.

Mr. Burns: I see.



Ahh, eases the pain.

I believe that woman is planning to shoot me again.

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Tuesday, February 7, 2006 2:33 PM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


Speaking of Monty Python:

FIRST YORKSHIREMAN:
Aye, very passable, that, very passable bit of risotto.
SECOND YORKSHIREMAN:
Nothing like a good glass of Château de Chasselas, eh, Josiah?
THIRD YORKSHIREMAN:
You're right there, Obadiah.
FOURTH YORKSHIREMAN:
Who'd have thought thirty year ago we'd all be sittin' here drinking Château de Chasselas, eh?
FIRST YORKSHIREMAN:
In them days we was glad to have the price of a cup o' tea.
SECOND YORKSHIREMAN:
A cup o' cold tea.
FOURTH YORKSHIREMAN:
Without milk or sugar.
THIRD YORKSHIREMAN:
Or tea.
FIRST YORKSHIREMAN:
In a cracked cup, an' all.
FOURTH YORKSHIREMAN:
Oh, we never had a cup. We used to have to drink out of a rolled up newspaper.
SECOND YORKSHIREMAN:
The best we could manage was to suck on a piece of damp cloth.
THIRD YORKSHIREMAN:
But you know, we were happy in those days, though we were poor.
FIRST YORKSHIREMAN:
Because we were poor. My old Dad used to say to me, "Money doesn't buy you happiness, son".
FOURTH YORKSHIREMAN:
Aye, 'e was right.
FIRST YORKSHIREMAN:
Aye, 'e was.
FOURTH YORKSHIREMAN:
I was happier then and I had nothin'. We used to live in this tiny old house with great big holes in the roof.
SECOND YORKSHIREMAN:
House! You were lucky to live in a house! We used to live in one room, all twenty-six of us, no furniture, 'alf the floor was missing, and we were all 'uddled together in one corner for fear of falling.
THIRD YORKSHIREMAN:
Eh, you were lucky to have a room! We used to have to live in t' corridor!
FIRST YORKSHIREMAN:
Oh, we used to dream of livin' in a corridor! Would ha' been a palace to us. We used to live in an old water tank on a rubbish tip. We got woke up every morning by having a load of rotting fish dumped all over us! House? Huh.
FOURTH YORKSHIREMAN:
Well, when I say 'house' it was only a hole in the ground covered by a sheet of tarpaulin, but it was a house to us.
SECOND YORKSHIREMAN:
We were evicted from our 'ole in the ground; we 'ad to go and live in a lake.
THIRD YORKSHIREMAN:
You were lucky to have a lake! There were a hundred and fifty of us living in t' shoebox in t' middle o' road.
FIRST YORKSHIREMAN:
Cardboard box?
THIRD YORKSHIREMAN:
Aye.
FIRST YORKSHIREMAN:
You were lucky. We lived for three months in a paper bag in a septic tank. We used to have to get up at six in the morning, clean the paper bag, eat a crust of stale bread, go to work down t' mill, fourteen hours a day, week-in week-out, for sixpence a week, and when we got home our Dad would thrash us to sleep wi' his belt.
SECOND YORKSHIREMAN:
Luxury. We used to have to get out of the lake at six o'clock in the morning, clean the lake, eat a handful of 'ot gravel, work twenty hour day at mill for tuppence a month, come home, and Dad would thrash us to sleep with a broken bottle, if we were lucky!
THIRD YORKSHIREMAN:
Well, of course, we had it tough. We used to 'ave to get up out of shoebox at twelve o'clock at night and lick road clean wit' tongue. We had two bits of cold gravel, worked twenty-four hours a day at mill for sixpence every four years, and when we got home our Dad would slice us in two wit' bread knife.
FOURTH YORKSHIREMAN:
Right. I had to get up in the morning at ten o'clock at night half an hour before I went to bed, drink a cup of sulphuric acid, work twenty-nine hours a day down mill, and pay mill owner for permission to come to work, and when we got home, our Dad and our mother would kill us and dance about on our graves singing Hallelujah.
FIRST YORKSHIREMAN:
And you try and tell the young people of today that ..... they won't believe you.
ALL:
They won't!

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Tuesday, February 7, 2006 3:39 PM

MCALLEN


Quote:

Originally posted by 20thCentFoxHater:
Wow. What can I say. So, I have to put up with people who are unable to accept a stereotype of their own culture, and I also have to put up with people insulting my grammar.



Yep, if you're going to get up on that soapbox and malign others for being ignorant, you'd better check your own intellectual appearance in the mirror first. Just makes sense, if you want anyone to value your opinion on this issue. Admittedly, I'm a grammar dork (my mom taught English) and it's a knee-jerk reaction for me to want to correct other people's grammar. 99.9% of the time I bite my tongue, but you were kinda asking for it.

Quote:

mcallen, if you are an American, what is the generally accepted view of Canadians in your country?


I am an American and I wouldn't dream of thinking I am qualified to expound upon the "generally accepted view" of anything. Not the generally accepted view held by Americans, and certainly not the generally accepted view held by the entire world, as you have done. I, personally, have always held our neighbors to the north in high esteem. There are many political and social issues where I think Canadians stand head and shoulders above us Americans (so much so that my husband and I are often tempted to head over to your side of the border). That said, I'd be willing to bet my last dollar that there are quite a few stupid people in your neck of the woods, as there are in mine, and as there are the world over.

Quote:

I DO NOT believe that ALL Americans are stupid, ignorant, slobs, but many are just the same as Canadians; and vice versa. BUT, there is an over-abundance of stupidity in American media, and that stupidity is translated to how the citizens are viewed. Look no further than American Idol or The Simpson's.


Well, thanks for that. Is there an over-abundance of stupidity in American media? Yep. Are there some seriously frightening problems with our current administration? Yep. Do I think there are mistakes being made today that will negatively impact us for many years to come? Yep. Does our entire political system desperately need a complete overhaul so that it's actually possible to elect someone with intellect and reason to run this country? YEP. Do you honestly believe that the thinking people of the U.S. need *you* to tell us that? Not in the slightest.

I'm not really interested in debating politics with anyone here. I can do that whenever I want, in person, with many friends, family members, co-workers, etc. whose opinions I hold in high regard. I don't pretend to be a board moderator of any type, but I think there may be more appropriate locations for your rants on the American people. Quite simply, I'm on these boards (and these particular threads) because I love Firefly and Serenity, because I have a terrible aching need to converse with others who have been impacted by it as much as I have, and because I WANT MORE OF IT!!



MAL: We're still flying.
SIMON: That's not much.
MAL: It's enough.

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Tuesday, February 7, 2006 3:40 PM

CHINDI


okay WAAAAYYY too serious for me now.. I am slipping over to another thread... this one is making my brain hurt...

you all carry on...

Chindi (slippin out the side door for some fresh air)

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Tuesday, February 7, 2006 5:21 PM

CHRISTHECYNIC


Quote:

Originally posted by 20thCentFoxHater:
For all of you out there who cannot accept being told what other people think of them, it just shows what their government and society has done to them.


You have totally missed the point.

Let's try going at it from the side.

Do you know what people in France think about your people? I bet you don't, and I'm not going to tell you. It's kind of funny though.

My real question is do you care? Now that you know that there is an opinion over there, and I can also tell you that it prevails from the Mediterranean up to (at least) Paris, do you really care?

Are you going to be writing a post or sending me an email saying, "Tell me!"?

I doubt it, but because I did not tell you I get to find out, neat how that works isn't it?

-

We know what people think of America, we also know that those who think that of Americans are not really worth caring about.

How is it that there can be a group of 3 million people marching in the street (yes, it is a very wide and long street) saying, more or less, "America Sucks!" and yet not one of the is impolite in any way to any of the Americans so easy to find around them?

It's because in some places on this planet it is possible to gather together three million people who have brains. People who know the difference between country and citizen and the difference between stereotype and reality.

If you were to tell me that someone like that thought bad things about me then and only then would I care, because that kind of a person would need a damn good reason and it would apply to me personally.

You're telling us what people think about Americans. By definition that means that they are shallow people who base their opinions on stereotypes. Unless I'm forced to I'm not going to deal with a person like that, and you telling me that they think this about Americans effects me in no way other than me knowing they think it about the Spanish or any other group:

It tells me that they don't think very much, they believe what they are told without question, and they have trouble making basic distinctions.

How does that effect me?

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Tuesday, February 7, 2006 5:46 PM

20THCENTFOXHATER


Oh, I DO know what Parisians think of Americans and how differently they think think about those in Canada (maybe not Quebec), Australia, etc.

But nobody seems to understand what I am trying to say, and that is: people SHOULD care what others think of them, because one day, they might have to co-operate with them in some way or other.

I'm not saying ALL Americans suck, or what not, but the American government certainly does, along with Canada's new Pro-Bush conservative government.

People construct stereotypes no matter what. You cannot do anything about it either, because stereotypes will always exist, but if it is a negative stereotype, people should try to change it to a more positive viewpoint.

It is more benefitial to make better neighbours by taking fences or barriers DOWN, not saying that you are right and they are wrong and calling them ignorant or shallow.

For example, what is the accepted view by many white North Americans of Muslims? Or what is the accepted view of Mexicans in the southern United States? These views ARE most likey wrong, but many accept them as fact. And living in Canada, and going to university for that matter, has helped many people (and I must admit, myself, even though I have more cultural minorities as friends than of my own culture) debunk these dumb cultural myths, and has made us better for this.

Finally, I think we should get off of this topic, as this IS a Firefly/Serenity site, and we should be talking about that more than this.

"I aim to misbehave."
"Can't do something smart, do something right".

HOMER: "Oh Lisa, you and your stories; Bart is a vampire, beer kills brain cells. Now lets go back to that... building thingy... where our beds and T.V.... is".

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Tuesday, February 7, 2006 6:03 PM

FOLLOWMAL




*clutches head and follows Chindi out*

long hard day, can't...

gotta go... sorry..

" You hold. Hold til I get back." Mal

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Tuesday, February 7, 2006 7:26 PM

DECKROID


I love the internet. Let me tell you why.

All over the world, people and thier opinions and ideological beliefs have this outlet to express their feelings.

Yay. Nay. I eat meat. I am a vegan. I am anti this. I am pro that.

This is the good of the internet.

You are a doodie head. Oh yeah? So's you're old man! Idiot. Stupid. $%#^%@#%!!!

This is the stupidity of the internet.

Name calling, sniping, flaming someone of the otherside of an issue... this is all just silly.

Now, we have here a site dedicated to Firefly / Serenity. Every so often, someone mentions something in a post and POW! that threat becomes a political debate complete with the afore mentioned silliness of name calling.

Can anyone here actually respond to a hot topic without taunts of Na na Nanny BooBoo getting into the mix? (Rhetorical.)

Gun Control!!!!
Either a class taught by the NRA to improve shooting or a means of limiting weapons to the public at large.

Evolution!!!!
Not in the house that God Built or the only logical conclusion to present evidence.

Religion!!!!
Christ! Mohammed! Jewish! Hindi!! COVENS!! SATANISTS!!! JEDIS!!! SCIENTOLOGY!!! FUNDAMENTAL ECONOMISTS!!!!!!

I have nothing against national pride, religion or ideas. If you were raised one way, that is your way and it is not up to me to try and tell you that way is correct or wrong.

That would be hubris.

I can disagree. I can state my own personal views. I dont have to make it Trollish.

So there.

Na na Nanny BooBoo.

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Tuesday, February 7, 2006 8:49 PM

CHRISMOORHEAD


I gotta say, I was going to argue with you until you pulled the reality TV card. If you contradicted yourself at all, it was in saying that you know it doesn't represent the majority of Americans. If it didn't, why would the majority of Americans watch it, and why do they have brand new contestants each week, and new shows every couple of months? Because the majority of Americans are whores to one degree or another.

My only argument would be in the assumption that other nations do not have an equally big problem with different vices. You know what the majority of US troops who witness first hand the culture of the Middle East will tell you about Iraqi's? That they're lazy. We give them supplies, plans, help, and even their own village elders tell us, "Our people are too lazy to do this.". You can say, "It's part of their culture, they just don't want to change.", but we're not asking them to convert to Christianity or anything, we're giving them supplies to make irrigation, schools, and in some cases sewer systems. If this was some American trailer trash family where no one wanted to go out and find a job or a real house, we wouldn't disguise it by calling it their "culture", so why do we do it for the Middle East? Just like you said, FoxHater, it's not ALL of them, but you'd be a damn fool to think it wasn't the majority.

Canadians, English, Australians, look at France. They stood atop the "Americans are stupid, the French are enlightened" ladder, and the people they tried so hard to defend attempted to burn their country to the ground. Your sins run only as deep as your convictions that you're better than anyone else, Americans or otherwise.

The problem is people, and specifically, collections of people known as governments. As I said before, we all become too reliant on the system and expect it to act on our behalf and interact all nicely with the rest of the world. It's a pipe dream, and because the scale is expanded to the rest of the world, it becomes the rest of the world's problem when something messes up even slightly. The best solution is de-centralized governments world wide, but that will never happen, because some asshole will always want to rise in power, and everyone else will have to do the same to meet the threat.

We humans are wretched things. Ever notice how far in the future Firefly is set? And how we're having the EXACT same problems then as we do today? It's just the way things are.

"Deep in the battlefield covered in blood
Lies an Airborne Ranger dying in the mud
He fought for his country and he died like a man
Though some people back home just wouldn't understand"

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Wednesday, February 8, 2006 3:18 AM

CHRISTHECYNIC


Quote:

Originally posted by 20thCentFoxHater:
For example, what is the accepted view by many white North Americans of Muslims?


That they get a bad rap because of extremists who have never read their own holy book.

You should come down some time and see for yourself, I know that Maine, Texas, Utah, California, Alabama and Florida are places where the vast majority of white Americans hold this view, and I suspect that many more places are like that. I’ve not been too far into your section of America but I expect (though do not remotely know) the same holds true there and also from Mexico to Panama (though depending on your definition of white there might be far fewer people meeting that definition there.)

As for the others even if they do add up to many, once again: they don't matter.

Quote:

Or what is the accepted view of Mexicans in the southern United States?

Have you ever actually been to the southern United States? Don't base your accusation of stereotyping on stereotyping.

Quote:

These views ARE most likey wrong, but many accept them as fact.

I'll concede that you can claim that "many" have these views and, depending on your definition of the word, be correct.

However you are missing the point:
What the views are do not matter, the only thing that does matter is that these people have views of that nature and that should effect how you deal with these people, who they have them about and what the details are do NOT matter.

Quote:

Finally, I think we should get off of this topic, as this IS a Firefly/Serenity site, and we should be talking about that more than this.

Hardly a reason to stop, there are other threads for that and stereotypes about cultures is an important thing when we come here based on a show that has a blended culture.

-

Quote:

Oh, I DO know what Parisians think of Americans and how differently they think think about those in Canada (maybe not Quebec), Australia, etc.

If you're that smug than you don't know. And did you notice that you didn't bother to ask but instead went on assumptions? I maintain that is because you know, on some level at least, that it is not important.

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Wednesday, February 8, 2006 4:12 AM

TENTHCREWMEMBER

Could you please just make it stranger? Stranger. Odder. Could be weirder. More bizarre. How about uncanny?


Interesting thread...

I'm an American. Other people in other countries (not necessarily all of them in all places) don't like me and mine. Tough shit on them.

Canada wouldn't even be here today if it weren't for the U.S. (what, you think the Mounties would have stopped the Nazis?) So where does that leave you, 20thCentFoxHater?

Your jealous, even envious. It shows. I'm not saying it's perfect here in the U.S., but it's a hell of a lot better than anywhere else in the world. I own vehicles, drive them often, bitch about the price of gas even, but, I can do that all freely (and for the record, the U.S. owns 1/2 of all vehicles in the world but only uses 1/4 of all the gasoline in the world, so who has fuel inefficient cars?).

Yeah, there are morons in the U.S., and I'll be the first to point everyone of them out , but as you've proven here, your country has morons too. And there are morons in every part of the world. There are also ignorant people, which is to say, those who do not have the information necessary to make an informed opinion, and therefore I DO NOT CARE what the rest of the world thinks of me because many of them are ignorant, either by religious, governmental, or social restrictions on their freedoms.

So this is the part where you tell me that you don't care what I think about you and yours, and then maybe you realize that it only matters when their governments (or gov't sponsored folk) kill thousands of innocent civilians...


TCM

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Wednesday, February 8, 2006 6:08 AM

BROWNCOAT1

May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.


Quote:

Originally posted by christhecynic:
I think you go too far, like any big happy family we have political and philosophical squabbles, we'd have economic ones too if we all had the same bank account.

Doesn't make us any less family, certainly not less big, and people who never fight aren't happy they're blissful, which is something I don't like due to the lack of variation.




I am fine w/ differences. Being different makes each of unique & makes the group as a whole better & stronger. Politics & philosophy? Don't discuss them just like I don't discuss religion or money. Those topics will cause arguements & full blown flame wars faster than anything I can think of. I don't have an issue w/ any of that at all.

What I do draw an issue w/ is broad generalizations of a people, race, country, etc. Stereotyping Americans as being this or that is insulting and just plain ignorant. I for one don't paint anyone/county/race w/ stereotypes or generalizations & don't want it done to me & mine.

Does America have problems? Yep. All you need is eyes to see that. Let's see a show of hands of those who's country is without problems. Whose government is perfect & doesn't need some change? Anyone? Is the media skewed? Sure as hell are.

You see, the state of this country is something our forefathers warned us about years ago. They warned us what would happen if the country they founded allowed an all powerful central government to set up in Washington & was allowed to vote itself all sorts of powers. Washington & the other Founding Fathers warned us. We didn't listen. My family fought to keep this country the Republic our ancestors struggled to create, and the people allowed the federals to become too powerful. We are paying for it now. All of us. Not just the U.S. anymore, but our neighbors & the rest of the world.

I do my part. I vote. I stay educated on what is going on. I do all I can short of armed revolution to change things & yet I am one of the vocal minority.

Not on a soapbox here, just saying I don't like being labeled as some kind of mouth breathing, reality show watching, oblivious hillbilly unaware of the mess that resides in Washington. My family has known since 1861 but have been powerless to do anything about it.

Yeah, we're all one big happy family. Issues and all.

__________________________________________

"May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one."

Richmond, VA & surrounding area Firefly Fans:

http://tv.groups.yahoo.com/group/richmondbrowncoats/

http://www.richmondbrowncoats.org


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Wednesday, February 8, 2006 6:39 AM

NOVASTARCLOUD


After getting my butt kicked here so bad, I decided I needed to go back to Texas. I used to live in Houston, so I contacted the Houston Browncoats and asked if I could join there. I told them about what had transpired here and one of the mods wrote me back.

The Houston mod wrote: ..."Absolutely, perhaps you can help us with some ideas for our Houston hosted
Lone Star Shindig, we are a much smaller board, but you are most welcome..."


So I wrote back:

..."You and I are both what is referred to as 'conservative' and 'libertarian' and that's very close (if not identical) to what Mal and Zoe are, "Independents". How this ideology could be viewed as 'trollish' is beyond my understanding. It is in perfect sync with the whole Firefly philosophy; I just don't understand it at all. Texas, at one time, was Independent. So if anyone understands Mal, it's Texas for sure.

OK... deep breath. Getting off the soapbox now...

Thank you for your help and understanding. You've been very kind and I feel I've taken up enough of your time. Thank you so much for taking the time to chat with me and I hope to hear from you again..."

End of message. So long Fireflyfans.net...i'm headin' back south where the atmo is much warmer/friendlier... (I'm sure I won't be missed here)....

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Wednesday, February 8, 2006 7:13 AM

GIXXER


I feel I must weigh in on behalf of Americans. Honestly, I've never met anyone I didn't like.

Where'll I start? Ah yes. Vehicles. For dumb antiquated technology, US Guzzlers are indeed big and clever. I love Mustangs, Camaros, Impalas and Town Cars. I quite like trucks, because your F-150s and Rams are really in one's face. Wouldn't be seen dead in a ditch in one, mind...

Over here we are equally keen on SUVs and 4x4s for taking children to school. In the middle of London, England at about 4mpg. Don't let anyone call Americans stupid for having big cars. See what they pay for gas and then tell me who the stupid one is.

Driving. Bliss. Everyone is so damn polite. The whole School Bus etiquette thing is entirely charming. Find a speed limit, and sit on it (or maybe +5 to 10mph) and everyone is cool about it. Try that here and you will have a cretin shoving his bonnet (hood) up your boot (trunk) in no time at all.

Restaurants. I bloody hate eating out here (I hasten to add, over here that means going out for a meal in a restaurant).

You wait ages for some surly git to possibly take your order if they feel like it. Wait even longer for something indifferent. Then it gets really difficult when you desperately try to attract someone's attention for the bill (check).

I prefer the no nonsense, get what you asked for dead quick, pay and go approach. (As Mal might have said "You do the food. You get paid.") Diners are cool too. No matter how many Starbucks you try, can you better the Java from a diner machine? From one of those Conas with the round pyrex jug.

Finally a quick wave to my favourite place. Cape Ann, Mass. I love it round there, although on recent return trips I've gone a smaller car. A Town Car on those little twisty roads was hi-larious but a long way from practical. And damn me, but don't those things turn on a sixpence (dime)?

G


(Best Hugh Grant voice) Yes, officer. I really am awfully sorry for speeding.

(Rather than get fined by speed cameras, I'd much rather be pulled over by a full-dress Crown Vic. No excuses. Bang to rights, guv.)

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