GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

In the BDM, who opened the blast doors?

POSTED BY: INDIGOSTARBLASTER
UPDATED: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 06:16
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Monday, July 17, 2006 7:00 AM

INDIGOSTARBLASTER


I was watching the BDM for the third time last week, and something was bothering me about that cool shot of River when the blast doors open and she's standing there by herself, having slaughtered all the Reavers.

And then it hit me -- I thought the idea was that Kaylee could (and had) rigged the blast doors so they wouldn't open again once they were shut -- at least, so they wouldn't open again from the outside, the side the Reavers were on. And we didn't see anyone on Mal and Zoe's side of the door open them. So how come...?

Even if I can get around the idea that the doors were openable (maybe Kaylee didn't have time to rig them), and that the Reavers were too busy attacking River to try them (although you'd figure at least a couple of them would... it's boring to fight a thousand to one, you have to hang around waiting for your compatriots to get out of the way so you can get a shot in...), still, those doors opened by themselves. River had both hands full and she was nowhere near the door.

I hope someone can explain or fan-wank this for me. It's a great shot and I don't want this to nag at me forever.

Indigo S.

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Monday, July 17, 2006 7:04 AM

TRISTAN


It bothered me, too, for awhile. There is the possibility that the Alliance was able to broadcast an override to all the doors in the facility...but then why tear down the wall? See, kind of a weird one to work out. Or, a funnier version, River used one of the Reaver's bodies to hit the button (ala Resident Evil) so she would be framed just so for the shot...


Good one to wrap the mind around!

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Monday, July 17, 2006 7:06 AM

FUTUREMRSFILLION


River opened them. They would have to have been closed for Kaylee to successfully rig them and they weren't. River went out, got the bag, closed the doors kicked the whoop-a&& out of the Reavers and then opened the door. Did she use her hand? The bloddy ax? Her brain? Who's to say.


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Monday, July 17, 2006 7:09 AM

AGENTROUKA


This has always bothered me, too.



I mean, I know, in the commentary Joss says that this shot was one of the moments for which he wrote the entire film, but... actually it's one of the least resonating moments for me in the movie. I find River's breakdown on Miranda, or even her decision to go fight the Reavers to begin with MUCH more compelling than that shot because, duh. We knew she would win. What's so heroic about that?


To have it connected to such a plothole only makes me unhappier with it. What exactly IS the grand thing that this blast door so unmotivatedly reveals to us?

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Monday, July 17, 2006 7:13 AM

EVILDINOSAUR


it's bothered me since the first time i saw it, the only thing that makes sense is that it's one of those hollywood "don't think about this just look how cool it looks" moments. It is an awesome shot, despite it's lack of sense making.

"Haha, mine is an evil laugh."

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Monday, July 17, 2006 7:21 AM

DUG


I'm with Agentrouka on this. I refer to that scene as the Witchblade scene, because it feels like it belongs in a Witchblade movie instead of in the verse. The music is wrong for the verse, the style of combat is different from other fights and the cinematography feels different. It always feels to me that my tv switches to another movie for that scene.

I decided that, to integrate that scene with the Jossverse I have to view it as a joke. It seems to work forme to think River stages that blast door opening by running over, hitting the switch and then running back real fast. Then she poses for the BDH's. Other retcons like the Alliance opening the door while blowing up walls right beside doors just doesn't work for me.

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Monday, July 17, 2006 7:26 AM

SIMONWHO


Here's my idea: Mr Universe, lazy sod that he was, rigged up the system so that the doors would automatically open a moment after the lift arrives (the one that Mal is in at the end). Kaylee wired up the doors so they couldn't be opened through the standard mechanism but she didn't know about Mr Universe's adjustment, hence it opened as normal when Mal came back up, just in time to see River atop a big pile of bodies.

Of course, had she lost...

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Monday, July 17, 2006 7:56 AM

REDLAVA


That is pretty much my take on the affair as well. Either it was just one of those Hollywood, cool shot but don't think scenes, or the blast doors were rigged to open when the lift doors opened. Kaylee rigged it so they wouldn't open from the outside. So those two reason are the only two that make sense. Personally I am going to go with the doors being rigged to open, that way my brain doesn't explode.

As far as the Alliance blowing the wall, they kinda had too because of all of the crates that the BDH's put in the way to block the only enterance. The door was only opened enough to allow the reavers into the room in a slow trickle. And besides it's the Alliance, they would still completely demolish your house to get in even if the front door was unlocked.

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Monday, July 17, 2006 7:59 AM

INDIGOSTARBLASTER


Hmm. That sort of works, SimonWho. There didn't seem to be any door opening mechnism from the inside at all, so it does sort of make sense that Mr. Universe (who lives alone) would just rig it to the elevator somehow.

I also like the explanation that River threw the last dead Reaver into the door opening button on the other side :)

One other thought just occurred to me, though it doesn't make that much sense. Maybe the blast door is on some kind of a timer, so it only stays shut for twenty minutes at a time? I could sort of see that if it's supposed to be an extra layer of protection from a specific event -- say, the backblow from a ship leaving the complex -- but that Mr. Universe is paranoid that a malfunctioning door might prevent him from leaving his complex in a hurry some day.

Indigo S.

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Monday, July 17, 2006 8:07 AM

EMMARIGBY


I hadn't really thought about this much before because my brain just automatically filled in that plot hole so I didn't even notice it. It told me that the Alliance had restored the malfunctioning power grid and everything rebooted, like a computer resetting to it's original programming, making the doors all open. The barricade (and aforementioned gung ho attitude) meant that the Alliance had to break in anyway. Well, that's my story and I'm sticking to it!

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Monday, July 17, 2006 8:16 AM

DONCOAT


Maybe Lenore opened the doors.


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I'm pointin' right at it!

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Monday, July 17, 2006 8:23 AM

DUG


The alliance rebooting the system just doesn't wash for me. They are tracking down enemies in the complex, both Reavers and the BDH's. Why would they open the doors, thus allowing the aforementioned enemies free run? If the Alliance goons are so gung-ho about blowing their way into places just leave the enemy pinned until you get there.

As for Simonwho's theory, that might could work...but it still feels like stretching things a mite thin to cover a hole. That whole sequence just bugs me, with Inara's magical morphing bow and River's magical door opening and all. This is supposed to be the critical scene the whole movie is for, right? How can you justify sloppiness in the scene that the movie was written for?

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Monday, July 17, 2006 8:31 AM

WHITEFALL


With this scene, keep in mind it loses a lot of it's scariness once you've seen the movie and know who survives.

As for the doors opening... well, keep in mind, kaylee SAID she could rig the doors so that they wouldnt close, but she was lying paralyzed on the floor the whole time. Clearly, she didnt rig em. River, however, believing she could keep them reavers at bay, just hit the door closing button (look at it, she taps the panel thing once, no time to 'rig it'), throws the bag through, and gets to ass whooping. So while it is a plothole that the door opened when it did, I feel it isnt as big a hole as if that whole "omg the doors wont never open from either side" had ever actually worked.

So, plothole: a door opened with no one to push the button.
Payoff: Fun hero-shot(TM).

And as for that shot being a joke, it is only so much as joss is aware when he does a hero-shot, but he still does em. I believe his words in the buffy pilot commentary were "give me the Spielberg", because that's what he wanted for buffy, a hero-shot. They happen. Meh.

"But, these strong women characters?"

"Why aren't you asking 100 other guys why they don't write strong women characters?" -Joss Whedon

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Monday, July 17, 2006 8:38 AM

SPACEANJL


That shot was needed.

'Cos the last thing Mal looks at when he walks away is Inara.

But the first thing he looks at in the new world is River.

Just my two credits worth.

The whole BDM was a rush job to some extent, the rest of season one and the projected line of season two shoehorned into one movie that had to speak to a bunch of folk who weren't acquainted with our shiny 'Verse. Mr Universe bugged the hell out of me as a too convenient plot McGuffin.

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Monday, July 17, 2006 9:21 AM

WHITEFALL


Yeah, the BDM, while being an, as joss called it, "high middle" sorta movie, was our beloved show ressurected in name only. This is not Joss' fault, he had to serve about 5 different masters, execs expecting an action movie, fans expecting more series, newbies expecting a sci-fi flick, and a style of storytelling (television down to earth) that just doesnt translate into a movie.

Sad, but more or less true.

"But, these strong women characters?"

"Why aren't you asking 100 other guys why they don't write strong women characters?" -Joss Whedon

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Monday, July 17, 2006 9:44 AM

INDIGOSTARBLASTER


Ok, I think I've come up with a door-opening scenario that works with the rest of that scene:

River just hits the door-closing button (no special rigging of it to keep it shut) and throws the bag through. During the fight, she keeps the Reavers occupied and kills any that get too close to the button.

The last Reaver attacks her, some kind of a bloody bludgeoning weapon in hand. She knocks it out of his hand straight up above their heads, and kills that Reaver with an edged weapon. A quick glance tells her none of the assailants are left standing.

The bludgeoning weapon falls straight down on her, turning over and over in slow mo. She uses one of the weapons she's holding to deflect it into the door opening button (in one of those beautifully economic moves that River makes), and turns to face the opening door so she can go back in. Before she can take another step, the Alliance blows out the wall/door behind her, and she freezes, tighening her grip on her weapons. Just in case.

How's that?

Indigo S.

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Monday, July 17, 2006 10:01 AM

SPACEANJL


It's either that, or she poked the button with the tip of the axe. But I like your version.

Tho' the Raimi inspired idea of activating the door button by blatting a Reaver into it was funny, too.


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Monday, July 17, 2006 10:30 AM

AGENTROUKA


Quote:

Originally posted by SpaceAnJL:
That shot was needed.

'Cos the last thing Mal looks at when he walks away is Inara.

But the first thing he looks at in the new world is River.

Just my two credits worth.




I don't know.

The new 'verse starts already when Mal makes the choice to do the right thing for the sake of the right thing. "I aim to misbehave." That there is the new 'verse.

That moment of them all staring at River (and, naturally, the Alliance right behind her) is the last moment of doubt, the last question what exactly getting the signal out will cost them, how much it even matters what they did, by the way of changing the Operative's mind.

River is the spirit, Inara is the heart. When Mal leaves, he's scared of letting go. When he's back and they've all done their part, the only thing left standing, the only thing that none of them will lose is the conviction of having done the right thing.


Anyway, that's what this scene says to me. Terribly, terribly hokey as it is.

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Monday, July 17, 2006 10:37 AM

CHOO1701


It was the posh stereotypical British Reaver who was moments before death is still kind:

River: could you be a friendly chap open the door for us?

BritReaver: why of course m'am. *pushes button* *dies*

rest is history...



either that or river used the woodden pole that is actor Hayden Christian.

-----------------------------
"Remember, always be yourself. Unless you suck."-Joss Whedon

Ralph Wiggum(after walking into the 'Adults Only' section): Everybody's hugging!

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Monday, July 17, 2006 10:50 AM

SPACEANJL


Aaagh! Monty Python / Reaver crossover in my head. I love the idea of britreavers.

Do you mind terribly if I take first bite of this one?

Oh, no, dear chap. I've already eaten. Do mind the mess. That one split rather...

The reaver reading party would probably involve debate of the latest Martin Amis novel or the like...

I had coffee today. All my other plot-bunnies have run away and hidden.

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Monday, July 17, 2006 10:54 AM

CHOO1701


Quote:

Originally posted by SpaceAnJL:
Aaagh! Monty Python / Reaver crossover in my head. I love the idea of britreavers.

Do you mind terribly if I take first bite of this one?

Oh, no, dear chap. I've already eaten. Do mind the mess. That one split rather...

The reaver reading party would probably involve debate of the latest Martin Amis novel or the like...

I had coffee today. All my other plot-bunnies have run away and hidden.



oooo.....I'm a Reaver-Jack and i'm okay...

-----------------------------
"Remember, always be yourself. Unless you suck."-Joss Whedon

Ralph Wiggum(after walking into the 'Adults Only' section): Everybody's hugging!

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Monday, July 17, 2006 11:38 AM

CYBERSNARK


More scary thought:

One of those Reavers was smart. I mean in the technical sense.

While the others were trying to kill River, the smart one was tearing his fingers raw on the door's control mechanism, understanding what Kaylee had done and knowing what would happen if he undid it.

He finally succeeded, but by then River had disposed of the others. She kills him, steps back to take a breath, and suddenly the doors are opening.

-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

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Monday, July 17, 2006 11:42 AM

CHOO1701


Quote:

Originally posted by Cybersnark:
More scary thought:

One of those Reavers was smart. I mean in the technical sense.

While the others were trying to kill River, the smart one was tearing his fingers raw on the door's control mechanism, understanding what Kaylee had done and knowing what would happen if he undid it.

He finally succeeded, but by then River had disposed of the others. She kills him, steps back to take a breath, and suddenly the doors are opening.

-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.



.....

.....

yeah...but...well...

that makes sense... (but Python Reavers are funnier....somehow...)

-----------------------------
"Remember, always be yourself. Unless you suck."-Joss Whedon

Ralph Wiggum(after walking into the 'Adults Only' section): Everybody's hugging!

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Monday, July 17, 2006 12:00 PM

GUYWHOWANTSAFIREFLYOFHISOWN


I like the "Kaylee didn't rig the doors and River shoved the last reaver's dead body into the switch" theory myself



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Monday, July 17, 2006 10:48 PM

PHOENIXROSE

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.


I had always assumed that River opened the doors with her brain. That's just all that popped into my head and I didn't give it a second thought.

As for "Inara's magic morphing bow" I will refer you to the commentary; Joss said that test audiences "didn't like Inara with a bow and arrow because it was 'too Wonder Woman' cue irony. So we replaced it with a digital weapon that was kind of a cool, futuristic crossbow thing".
Anyway, it went something like that. Sorry if I'm a little off, as it's been awhile since I listened to the commentary.

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Monday, July 17, 2006 11:27 PM

RCAT


Quote:

Originally posted by DonCoat:
Maybe Lenore opened the doors.B]



Heh, Nevermore!

Spaceanjl: I like the way you think, tho' undoubtedly there would be admirals writing letters of protest.


For me it was one of those moments of suspension of disbelief (often used w/ hollywood). I think perhaps the idea that Kaylee never rigged the doors is plausible (perhaps that could only be done from inside?) and when the fighting stopped, the crew opened them to see what had happened (thin, I know, but maybe).


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Monday, July 17, 2006 11:35 PM

PHOENIXROSE

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.


See, I always assumed that Kaylee had rigged the doors before the fighting started. Would be stupid to wait. Hence, the only thing that could have opened them was River's brain.
But people seem to not be too fond of that theory. Oh well.

...I don't think Lenore has the mobility to open the doors.

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Tuesday, July 18, 2006 2:03 AM

MAGDALENA

"No power in the 'verse can stop me!"


Quote:

Originally posted by FutureMrsFIllion:
River opened them. They would have to have been closed for Kaylee to successfully rig them and they weren't. River went out, got the bag, closed the doors kicked the whoop-a&& out of the Reavers and then opened the door. Did she use her hand? The bloddy ax? Her brain? Who's to say.




Yeah - I thought about it and then decided that I just had to 'suspend my disbelief' and ive in to artistic licence! But I love this explaination FMF... I had thought that she could have used her brain and that when we get our next series (coz we're a power to be reckoned with) we might see River developing her telekinetic skills a little at a time... and/or losing them again?

I like your version best 'coz I had assumed Kaylee had rigged the blast doors to lock while they were still outside and the idea was the lock would be automaticly activated when they were closed... but the sense iin Kaylee being semi-paralysed & therefor unable to complete her plan makes a lot more sense!

Thank you FMF! - Magdalena x x x

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Tuesday, July 18, 2006 2:30 AM

FUTUREMRSFILLION


Magdelena - you are welcome.

Actually, when I wrote that I had forgotten that she had been darted. But, were I to rig doors so they wouldn't open, I would close said doors and then do something to the mechanism on the side I was on, because at some point I would (hopefully) want to undo it. Can't undo something if its on the otherside! But, yeah, she couldn't have finished, don't think she ever started. Especially after the "Sex" part. At that point I am sure that was all that was on her mind - staying alive and having the sex! LOL



one of the Forsaken TM

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Tuesday, July 18, 2006 2:59 AM

DUG


Quote:

Originally posted by PhoenixRose:
As for "Inara's magic morphing bow" I will refer you to the commentary; Joss said that test audiences "didn't like Inara with a bow and arrow because it was 'too Wonder Woman' cue irony. So we replaced it with a digital weapon that was kind of a cool, futuristic crossbow thing".
Anyway, it went something like that. Sorry if I'm a little off, as it's been awhile since I listened to the commentary.



I've listened to the commentary and know the reason for the change. That actually is my point, though...they made the change for the audience, but they did it badly. Watch the scene and you see the bow change back and forth several times. They didn't edit all of the views of that bow, even with the extra 6 months they had to polish things. They are quick shots adding up to maybe 1.5 to 2 seconds of screen time, so at 24 fps that would have only been 50 more frames to matchmove at the most. If reaction to the bow was strong enough to require a change they should have the attention to detail to make the change the whole way through.

There have been plenty of posters who noticed that during their first viewing, which means they were distracted at the high point of the movie. My wife's comments after viewing it the second time was that she watched just for that to make sure she saw it correctly the first time.

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Tuesday, July 18, 2006 3:45 AM

MAGDALENA

"No power in the 'verse can stop me!"


Quote:

Originally posted by FutureMrsFIllion:
Magdelena - you are welcome.*** Especially after the "Sex" part. At that point I am sure that was all that was on her mind - staying alive and having the sex! LOL



I totally agree! When I saw the BDM for the first time I almost said "I say we live!" but Joss always says it better! ... yes, her mind was on other things!!! LOL too!

Love you - Goodnight from Australia! - Magdalena x x

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Tuesday, July 18, 2006 10:28 AM

DONCOAT


I beg to differ -- somewhat.

Kaylee did rig the doors.

We actually see her as she's finishing the job. It's when Jayne is saying (about River), "She picked a bung of a time to go helpless on us." Right then, Kaylee is walking away from the door controls in the background. This occurs after she says she can rig the doors so they can't be opened after they're closed, but long before the "I can close them from the outside" bit.

However, this could still fit. Clearly something went wrong with Kaylee's mod -- because the doors never fully closed. So maybe that means they never latched closed even when River closed them from the outside.

That leaves the possibility of River slaying the last Reaver just right, or tossing a bit of gore off her weapon at the button, or whatever.

Personally I prefer the Alliance override idea. Simple, effective, and timed correctly (they open the doors just before they break into the "atrium").


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I'm pointin' right at it!

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Tuesday, July 18, 2006 7:42 PM

GUYWHOWANTSAFIREFLYOFHISOWN


I'll concede the rigging point, but (as was stated earlier) if the alliance had overridden all the doors, why did they blow up the wall?



http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/llama.php
-try it out, I dare you

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Tuesday, July 18, 2006 7:51 PM

CHOO1701


cause using doors isn't in military training?????

or they were trying to up stage River, and it didn't work

(p.s: anyone notice the flincing reaver as the wall comes down? )

-----------------------------
"Remember, always be yourself. Unless you suck."-Joss Whedon

Ralph Wiggum(after walking into the 'Adults Only' section): Everybody's hugging!

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Wednesday, July 19, 2006 12:01 AM

EMMARIGBY


Well I assumed that they believed that the whole group had taken shelter at the heart of the complex and were blasting a straight line path in to them. But since blasting blast doors is harder than bursting in through a wall they had to concede to going to the effort to open that door. Course the timing is lucky, if the Alliance had opened the door before River had finished killing all the Reavers things might have got ugly. More so!

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Wednesday, July 19, 2006 6:01 AM

MICJWELCH


I can almost understand the doors opening with the lift, even if it was a while after the lift opened. Of course, Mr. Universe would know that it would take a while to walk down the hall.

I also noticed that the doors didn't work quite like Kaylee had planned. So it's likely that rigging it to stay closed didn't work.

According to the commentary, that scene ended up a LOT different than Joss Whedon had planned, so I think that things might have gotten confused in the process.

I think River wanted to show Simon what she had just done for him. That's why she was standing facing the doors.




"We may experience some slight turbulence, and then... explode."

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Wednesday, July 19, 2006 6:05 AM

PHOENIXROSE

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.


She looks like she's still braced to fight and also catching her breath. Plus it makes a shiny hero shot.

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Wednesday, July 19, 2006 6:16 AM

MICJWELCH


Also, I'm not convinced that she CAN kill anyone with her brain. I think she was just trying to scare Jayne.




"We may experience some slight turbulence, and then... explode."

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