GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

Mr. and Mrs. Tam

POSTED BY: BEATLE
UPDATED: Friday, February 27, 2004 07:13
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Wednesday, February 25, 2004 4:56 PM

BEATLE


I was watching 'Safe' at work today (why actually work?) and it really bothered me that Regan and Gabriel Tam were oblivious to River's coded letters for help.
So, does anyone think that they were blind to River just because Simon was their favorite child? Or maybe they had something going on with the Blue Hands and helped push her to go the the "special school"?
Or, maybe a little of both. Maybe they wanted Simon to be such a high profiled doctor that a deal was made in exchange for River. They seemed so overly concerned for Simon's medical studies.
Or they are just the kind of parents that don't pay attention to what their kids are really doing and are like.
It makes me wonder how a parent would miss sign's of their daughter needing help.


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Wednesday, February 25, 2004 5:19 PM

TRASK43


They struck me as the kind of parents who were oblivious to what their kids were doing as long as they kept their status and their kids were doing nothing that would bring shame on them they were happy.

www.summer-glau.com

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Wednesday, February 25, 2004 5:47 PM

KNIBBLET


Worse, I think they chose to ignore it. They didn't want to believe Simon because then they'd have to risk their beloved wealth and position.

They'd already written River off - they didn't want to have to write off Simon as well.

Well, they lost both their children. The only one's who have my empathy are the children who showed loyalty enough for a clan.

"Just keep walkin, preacher man."

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Wednesday, February 25, 2004 6:01 PM

NUR


Quote:

Originally posted by trask43:
They struck me as the kind of parents who were oblivious to what their kids were doing as long as they kept their status and their kids were doing nothing that would bring shame on them they were happy.

www.summer-glau.com



Exactly. Remember how angry Daddy was that he had to leave the dinner party to go and get Simon out of prison? And he was more angry about his permanent record than the fact that his son had been arrested. He wasn't going to come and get Simon a second time, he was going to let him rot in a cell and River in the Academy because to do otherwise would damage his standing.

Those who restrain desire, do so because thiers is weak enough to be restrained.
-William Blake

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Wednesday, February 25, 2004 6:21 PM

SHINY


If you read the original/earlier version of the script, there's a scene where simon is arguing with his father and it is obvious that his father knows something is wrong and is just in denial and/or too afraid to stand up to the alliance.

RIVER
Purple elephants are flying.
MAL
Good. Thanks for the update.

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Wednesday, February 25, 2004 7:47 PM

ROCKETJOCK


Anybody out there remember a remarkable PBS show from the 70's called "Meeting of Minds"? It was a talk show format program produced and hosted by Steve Allen, the twist being that the guests were all historical characters.

One episode featured Galileo, who was asked a pointed question about the way he recanted his position about the non-geocentric nature of the universe under pressure from the Roman Catholic Church. It was implied that the act made him a coward.

In reply, Galileo lit a candle, and asked his questioner to hold his hand in the flame for a count of ten. When the questioner refused, Galileo pointed out that the inquisition had much worse tortures available.

I wouldn't judge Simon & River's parents too harshly.* I see their position as a combination of self-deception and self-preservation. Not admirable, but simply all too human.

*Footquote: "Never be angry with someone until you have walked a mile in their shoes. Then, if you're still angry, they're a mile away, and you have their shoes."
-- Solomon Short

RocketJock

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Thursday, February 26, 2004 9:26 AM

KNIBBLET


Quote:

Originally posted by RocketJock:
In reply, Galileo lit a candle, and asked his questioner to hold his hand in the flame for a count of ten. When the questioner refused, Galileo pointed out that the inquisition had much worse tortures available.


Very good point; however, Simon Tam took the risk and rescued his sister.
The coward dies a thousand deaths. The brave man only one.

"Just keep walkin, preacher man."

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Thursday, February 26, 2004 2:51 PM

SAMURAIX47


I've seen something just like this in a japanese family my father knew in Japan. My dad suggested they send their kids to live in the US for a year. They couldn't send their son, who would lose a year of schooling even though he would attend school in the US. It would jeapordize his chances of getting into high school and college in Japan, on the other hand it was alright to send the daughter to the US because it wasn't as important for her to make it in japanese school systems. So their daughter lived with my family for a year and attended 8th grade here in the US. She later went on to high school in Japan and went to a university in St Louis and got a Law degree. I think she got the better education out of it in the end.

James

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Friday, February 27, 2004 4:30 AM

BROWNCOAT1

May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.


I agree that Simon & River's parents were more interested in protecting their own status and position than in saving their daughter, or even believing their son.

I try not to judge someone, especially if I am not fully aware of all the circumstances involved, but for his parents to turn their backs on Simon's distress over his sister's letters, to not even make a phone call or visit to insure River was okay is deplorable. If for no other reason than to put to rest Simon's doubts and fears they should have used their much vaunted wealth to be certain River was okay.

Simon's father made it very clear when he picked him up from the police station that he would not risk his position to help his son or his daughter if the need arose. Speaking as a parent I can safely say that any parent that would not risk everything to insure their child was safe is not a parent at all and not worthy of anything but contempt.

"May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one."


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Friday, February 27, 2004 4:55 AM

DRAKON


Quote:

Originally posted by BrownCoat1:
Simon's father made it very clear when he picked him up from the police station that he would not risk his position to help his son or his daughter if the need arose. Speaking as a parent I can safely say that any parent that would not risk everything to insure their child was safe is not a parent at all and not worthy of anything but contempt.



Was it status, or his life?

Sometimes the two get tangled. Drop one of these citified dandies on a frontier world, without their status, or servants, or wealth, they'd die before sundown. Sometimes that is the only thing that keeps them alive is the fact they stay in their place in their own society.

"Wash, where is my damn spaceship?"

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Friday, February 27, 2004 4:57 AM

BRITCHICK


i think it is very easy to judge, and it is understgandable that on the whole we think the Tam's were either ignorant or were jus ttrying to preserve their status.

What we don't know (at least I don't think we do!) is what would have happened to the family if they had lost their status.

It might not be just about money and luxury, it might be that their status-less existence would have meant they had absolutely nothing. And they certainly wouldn't have been able to help River in that state.

I guess what I am saying is we don't really know all the facts, so let's not judge too harshly.

I was really inteersted in the earlier comment about a previous version of the script... anyone know where I can read a copy?

Thanks

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Friday, February 27, 2004 6:59 AM

SOUTHERNMERC


Here's a thought:

What if the parents KNEW all about River's predicament, yet trying to remove her from that situation, even just asking about it, would cause the gov't to come crashing down on not only them, but their family and possibly friends. They couldn't openly go after their daughter, because more was at stake than one person's life. But they COULD make their son, who loves his sister more than his own life and everything in it. "Make" isn't the right word. Manipulate is closer, but there could be love and concern in it. By letting him go after her, and with reverse psychology egg him on, they remove themselves and any friends or family from harm's way. When Simon was caught in a blackout zone and his father had to bail him out, it created the perfect excuse to cut him completely loose and sever any connections to him. All he would have to do, since the Alliance undoubtably recorded the whole conversation, is berate him and say "you're on your own."

This would also serve to ensure their daughter is rescued from such a horrible fate. Since the son is cut off from the family, he wouldn't jepordaize himself or his sister by trying to come back or contact the family. They would know since they were both fugitives that they had gotten out. They couldn't know they were safe, but they would have the comfort of knowing that their daughter would at least have a chance away from the terrible place they sent her.

Any thoughts on this?

Edited for spelling, cause I'm a nitpicker.

Jayne: "How big a room?"

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Friday, February 27, 2004 7:00 AM

BROWNCOAT1

May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.


Quote:

Originally posted by Drakon:
Quote:

Originally posted by BrownCoat1:
Simon's father made it very clear when he picked him up from the police station that he would not risk his position to help his son or his daughter if the need arose. Speaking as a parent I can safely say that any parent that would not risk everything to insure their child was safe is not a parent at all and not worthy of anything but contempt.



Was it status, or his life?

Sometimes the two get tangled. Drop one of these citified dandies on a frontier world, without their status, or servants, or wealth, they'd die before sundown. Sometimes that is the only thing that keeps them alive is the fact they stay in their place in their own society.



It could have been his life. It could very well be that he knew interfering with whatever happened to River could cost the life of not only himself, but his wife and Simon.

Still, being a parent myself, I would sacrifice anything to save my child if I knew they were in trouble.

"May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one."


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Friday, February 27, 2004 7:13 AM

BEATLE


Quote:

Originally posted by SouthernMerc:
Here's a thought:

What if the parents KNEW all about River's predicament, yet trying to remove her from that situation, even just asking about it, would cause the gov't to come crashing down on not only them, but their family and possibly friends. They couldn't openly go after their daughter, because more was at stake than one person's life. But they COULD make their son, who loves his sister more than his own life and everything in it. "Make" isn't the right word. Manipulate is closer, but there could be love and concern in it. By letting him go after her, and with reverse psychology egg him on, they remove themselves and any friends or family from harm's way. When Simon was caught in a blackout zone and his father had to bail him out, it created the perfect excuse to cut him completely loose and sever any connections to him. All he would have to do, since the Alliance undoubtably recorded the whole conversation, is berate him and say "you're on your own."

This would also serve to ensure their daughter is rescued from such a horrible fate. Since the son is cut off from the family, he wouldn't jepordaize himself or his sister by trying to come back or contact the family. They would know since they were both fugitives that they had gotten out. They couldn't know they were safe, but they would have the comfort of knowing that their daughter would at least have a chance away from the terrible place they sent her.

Any thoughts on this?
B]



This is good. It means that the sacrifice to save River, was to lose her and Simon. Makes me like them now.

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