GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

Possible Serenity Spoilers from Nathan Fillion at Buffistas.org

POSTED BY: OUTLANDER
UPDATED: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 14:14
SHORT URL:
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Monday, March 22, 2004 3:10 PM

OUTLANDER


This was posted at Buffistas.org

http://www.buffistas.org/showthread.php?thread_id=8&post_id=549

I was working with Nathan Fillion who plays the captain of the firefly. He told me some really cool stuff that is being done in the movie.


(MAJOR) SPOILERS AHEAD!!!!!

1. I don't watch the show but Nathan told me you can expect to see what the bad guys really look like. Apparently you've only heard, but never seen them in the show.

2. It is super action oriented. In one scene, straight out of The Searchers, the villians are destroying a local town and killing everyone. There is a small boy and mother running for their lives and the crew of the Firefly have to leave without them. As they pull away in there landspeeder. Nathan pulls out his gun and shoots both the mother and the boy to keep them from tortured.


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Monday, March 22, 2004 3:25 PM

APEMAN61


neat

That little man loved fire.

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Monday, March 22, 2004 3:56 PM

RKLENSETH


Reavers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Mal shooting a kid and mother?! Joss did say he wanted to explore the darkness in Mal during the movie.

Oh, and play Cantr II at www.cantr.net.

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Monday, March 22, 2004 5:46 PM

BEATLE


I wonder if he asked him about Book being in the movie.

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Monday, March 22, 2004 7:54 PM

SWITCHY


unbelievable!! I usually hate myself for giving in to the spoiler but that bit o' tasty really got my blood going. Very dark. soo exciting

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Monday, March 22, 2004 10:38 PM

DEANNAMAY


I don't know about Mal shooting mother and child getting past the screening process. I am sure the test audiences will feel it makes Mal too dark and unsympathetic. While we know it is perfectly within his character. Death is preferable to Reavers, period.

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Tuesday, March 23, 2004 12:38 AM

JARED


id hope they wont even think about removing that scene if its true. i can imagine that scene and what follows from it. the tortured look while making a decision like that within seconds. the continued torture when you ask yourself if there really wasnt another way to safe them. id expect even mal to be haunted by that for a while.
and what about inara? would she be shocked enough to kick him while he's down? comments like "no wonder you lost the war if you just kill your own people" come to mind. though maybe she'd surprise him by being understanding and comforting him? would be a good chance for them to get at least a little closer.

*sigh* could 2005 hurry up a little and get its behind over here?

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Tuesday, March 23, 2004 12:52 AM

JESIAHBLACK


I agree; i really hope for sure that the scene will be in no matter what.

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Tuesday, March 23, 2004 4:51 AM

HARDWARE


No way could they just do that. Dropping that on an audience blind WOULD make Mal seem unsympathetic. However, if you dress it up and make it dance a little first...

I can only imagine what Joss is going to do with the Reavers in a motion picture. He had what, 2 minutes to prep us for the Reavers in the pilot? Quick shots of those that could preparing to fight for their lives and others watching the big Reaver ship prowl on past. Any body remember how tense that scene felt?

Now imagine that blown up twice as big as life on the screen. Reavers being shot and still coming. People being held down and killed slow. Folks being set on fire, running, screaming until they drop still struggling. Brave grown men detailed to hold back the Reavers as long as possible dropping their weapons and running for the only safety possible, Serenity.

Now imagine the barely controlled chaos on Serenity. People crowding into the cargo bay carrying their few meager treasures in a bundle on their back. Refugees from the horror on the rim of civilized space. Mal, Zoe, Jayne Inara and Book barely keeping things under control. Simon treating injured in the medical bay. River entertaining some kids in the lounge. Serenity is stuffed beyond capacity. Kaylee in the engine room is worried the atmo might not hold up. Wash is on the bridge figuring how Serenity is going to handle with all this weight on board, one eye on the scope, keeping tabs on the Reaver ship. A twitch, the screen clears and the Reaver ship is on the move.

Wash calls down to Mal with the bad news. Mal orders Wash to lift off, but leave the ramp down. He wants to give every soul a fighting chance to make it. A few more people shove past him. And then the woman and her child appear. Too far away to make it as Serenity lifts. The Reavers right behind them.

Mal knows what is going to happen. The only mercy he can offer them is a quick death, cold comfort.

Joss said he wanted Firefly to be about the people history stepped on. It really does have a civil war feel to it. And during the civil war if a man was gut shot the only mercy their friends could offer them was a quick death. Indeed, in the original version of the pilot Mal may have had to shoot several of the men under his command since there were no doctors to treat someone who was gut shot.

It fits perfectly. Brilliant.

The more I get to know people the more I like my dogs.

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Tuesday, March 23, 2004 5:15 AM

BROWNCOAT1

May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.


Quote:

Originally posted by outlander:
This was posted at Buffistas.org

http://www.buffistas.org/showthread.php?thread_id=8&post_id=549

I was working with Nathan Fillion who plays the captain of the firefly. He told me some really cool stuff that is being done in the movie.


(MAJOR) SPOILERS AHEAD!!!!!

1. I don't watch the show but Nathan told me you can expect to see what the bad guys really look like. Apparently you've only heard, but never seen them in the show.

2. It is super action oriented. In one scene, straight out of The Searchers, the villians are destroying a local town and killing everyone. There is a small boy and mother running for their lives and the crew of the Firefly have to leave without them. As they pull away in there landspeeder. Nathan pulls out his gun and shoots both the mother and the boy to keep them from tortured.




I think we should err on the side of caution and question the veracity of this information. A person at Buffistas is posting what they pulled from an unnamed source from a site they did not bother to name. So this information is what, 3rd hand info from an undisclosed source? Not the most reliable.

For now let's labor on the assumption that this information is reliable. If that is the case, I am not sure that actually showing us the face of the Reavers is such a great idea. The thing that makes them so creepifying and boogey-man like is the fact that no one knows what they look like, none that have lived.

Face it, the scariest part of a horror movie is the creepy music and that fleeting shadow of movement in the dark background as the killer stalks the unsuspecting hero. It makes our imagination work to give that evil a face, and what we imagine is not normally the same as what the thing is we imagined.

Perhaps if they did the aftermath of a Reaver attack, of course that would be rather bloody on the big screen.

As far as Mal shooting a mother and child they are forced to leave behind, to prevent the Reavers from taking them alive.....I could see Mal doing that if there were absolutely no other choice, but only if all other options were exhausted. I think he would try to zip back in and rescue them before shooting them.

It could give us a glimpse into the darker side of Mal, but would the crew or us Browncoats recover from such a shocking action by our favorite captain? I could see why he might shoot them to prevent their capture, torture, and subsequent death at the hands of the Reavers, but he would be haunted by that action for the rest of his life.

"May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one."


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Tuesday, March 23, 2004 5:50 AM

BLACKOUTNIGHTS


It sure is difficult to resist these spoilers. Thankfully, I don't think anything that's been mentioned so far has taken anything away from the movie as much as it has enhanced my antici......pation. I wonder if someone behind the scenes is releasing little tidbits to whet our appetite? The movie really sounds like a blockbuster. I believe Universal trusts Joss' view of his Universe and characters. The only thing that would make me think otherwise is the company execs wanting a different script. But it sounds like that was because Joss was wrapping the story up instead of planning for it to continue. Boy oh boy.

One thing's for sure. It's going to be a great story to read the behind-the-scenes information once this chapter in the ongoing(!) life of Firefly ends. The DVD features should be great!

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Tuesday, March 23, 2004 7:48 AM

SCIFIDO


I simply do not believe either of these rumors.

Like it was mentioned above, Reavers are scary because we don't have concrete imageary to place upon them. They are the proverbial things that go bump in the night. Heck, several characters did not believe they existed until they crossed paths in Serenity. If we see them, they lose that mystery JW has developed.

Secondly, Mal doesn't go shooting mothers and babies. It doesn't add up. I know he is a survivor, but I see him putting his own life on the line first. It just doesn't ring true for me even if it makes perfect sense.

Well, that's another 2 cents worth.... what do you think?



Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.

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Tuesday, March 23, 2004 8:35 AM

BROWNCOAT1

May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.


Quote:

Originally posted by SciFido:
I simply do not believe either of these rumors.

Like it was mentioned above, Reavers are scary because we don't have concrete imageary to place upon them. They are the proverbial things that go bump in the night. Heck, several characters did not believe they existed until they crossed paths in Serenity. If we see them, they lose that mystery JW has developed.

Secondly, Mal doesn't go shooting mothers and babies. It doesn't add up. I know he is a survivor, but I see him putting his own life on the line first. It just doesn't ring true for me even if it makes perfect sense.

Well, that's another 2 cents worth.... what do you think?



We are of like minds on the Reaver issue SciFiDo. I think it is better to leave the Reavers as the faceless things that go bump in the night than to show us what they look like and ruin the mystery/dread.

As for Mal shooting the mother & child, I agree that he would probably sacrafice his own life trying to save them before he would shoot them. Of course I guess it would depend on the situation too. What if his going back for the mother & child meant his crew died? Would he sacrifice his crew to try to save the lives of people that he may not be able to save?

Interesting to ponder these rumors, and figure out how our favorite characters might react.

"May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one."


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Tuesday, March 23, 2004 8:52 AM

MELEAUX


i can see mal shooting anybody as an act of mercy which it cetainly would be, but I hope very much that we don't see the reavers. in my imagination they are so bad that it would ugly up the beauty of firefly. besides its the unknown that is soooo scary.

She understands, she doesn't comprehend

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Tuesday, March 23, 2004 8:53 AM

CHANNAIN

i DO aim to misbehave


Quote:

Originally posted by outlander:
Nathan pulls out his gun and shoots both the mother and the boy to keep them from being tortured.


That would be Mal shooting both the mother and the boy - which is a very Mal thing to do, in the way he was written for the first pilot. Consider for a second the way he shot the Fed in the first pilot - without even thinking about it, with River in the mix. Just draw and shoot. That doesn't mean he wouldn't feel some remorse over having to shoot a woman and her child. I could see him getting powerfully drunk afterward.

Quote:

Originally posted by outlander:
As they pull away in their landspeeder.


I'm sorry - landspeeder? So they upgraded from the mule? Stole Burgess' landspeeder in HoG? How shiny is that?

Suddenly I have an image of everyone piled on the landspeeder the way the crew of the Memphis Belle piled on the jeep to head out to the flight line.

I just hope they don't show too much of the Reavers. I really don't want to see them, and in fact NOT seeing them makes them scarier. Not knowing what they look like, yet understanding they are the horror of mankind - my imagination can go down all manner of avenues with something like that.

We have art so as not to die of truth ~ Neitzsche
http://www.mnartists.org/artistHome.do?rid=7922

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Tuesday, March 23, 2004 9:21 AM

JARED


and there we have a problem. i agree that the reavers shouldnt be shown. frankly, i dont think anything they could come up with and show on screen could even come close to what your mind is making up when you see the result of their attacks. they would have to show us things that will turn a man into a homocidal maniac just because of watching them. if they are shown it would have to be shocking and with that i mean in the way the exorcist shocked and offended people back then and passion of christ does now. but would serenity get away with that or just be thought of as tasteless gorefest?

if it wasnt for bushwhacked i might even expect something unexpected. spending most of the movie with the picture of horrible monsters forming in your head just do discover its a bunch of laywers.. sorry.. slightly savage looking, starving people that just went mad. but considering the self mutilation they are probably far from looking "normal". a horde of exaggerated ed geins was on my mind but seeing all the bodies hang from the ceiling im not sure what it is good for what they do to their victims.

anyway, that scene and not showing the reavers wouldnt work. without a whole lot of them about 1m right behind mentioned mother i cant imagine mal seeing no other way. of course this shouldnt happen to early on and the audience would definitely need to have a good idea whats expecting them if the reavers get them and they should mal good enough to know what it means.

one way or another, if this isnt completely made up or just meant to lure you the wrong way im sure they will pull it off and make it a memorable scene (for the audience and mal). but then, isnt mal already tortured enough? and could the consequences for him be shown good enough without a new show following the movie and seeing what this even did to his life?

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Tuesday, March 23, 2004 9:34 AM

BLACKOUTNIGHTS


I totally disagree. I would love to see the Reavers. We already have some idea of them from the guy in the episodes disfiguring himself after his encounter. However, since we are all would-be directors, if they are shown I'd prefer flashes and shadows — enough blackness and cut-aways to obscure a full fledged image.

That being said, I trust Joss' imagination will not let us down whatever is decided.

As far as Mal shooting mom and son, sure it's in his character if there's no other option. To quote Aragorn, "We will not abandon Merry and Pippen to torture and death." Just have to make sure it's the last option. He might make a mistake in such an action. *gasp!* The hero make a mistake?

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Tuesday, March 23, 2004 9:48 AM

BROWNCOAT1

May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.


Channain wrote:

Quote:

That would be Mal shooting both the mother and the boy - which is a very Mal thing to do, in the way he was written for the first pilot. Consider for a second the way he shot the Fed in the first pilot - without even thinking about it, with River in the mix. Just draw and shoot. That doesn't mean he wouldn't feel some remorse over having to shoot a woman and her child. I could see him getting powerfully drunk afterward.


I totally agree.

I think Mal has it in him to shoot them if there is no other way and he knows he can't rescue them without endangering his crew. It would be a mercy killing, and would be shocking, which is so Joss.

I do think it would eat at Mal, and I could see him getting powerful drunk afterwards. Oooooo! Even better, breaking down and having Inara comfort him.


"May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one."


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Tuesday, March 23, 2004 10:04 AM

DRAGONLORD


Quote:

Originally posted by rklenseth:
Reavers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Mal shooting a kid and mother?! Joss did say he wanted to explore the darkness in Mal during the movie.



If I couldn't get away from the Reavers, I'd want to someone to shoot me and my family. If I had a gun I'd do it myself. It's better to die than to submit to the torture of the Reavers. imho.

Dragon Lord

Summer: Jane's a girls name
Jane: Well I ain't no girl! I can prove it!
Simon: I'm trying to picture you more vulgar... but, I can't

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Tuesday, March 23, 2004 11:05 AM

CHANNAIN

i DO aim to misbehave


Quote:

Originally posted by BrownCoat1:
I think Mal has it in him to shoot them if there is no other way and he knows he can't rescue them without endangering his crew. It would be a mercy killing, and would be shocking, which is so Joss.



Yes... yes... and most definitely YES. then again, if that's what we expect, then Joss may write something totally contrary. He's been known to do that too.

That's the funny thing about rumors and Joss - current relevance has absolutely no bearing on what the actual story will entail.

Quote:

Originally posted by BrownCoat1:
I do think it would eat at Mal, and I could see him getting powerful drunk afterwards. Oooooo! Even better, breaking down and having Inara comfort him.



OH! Man. This whole line of thinking could lead to an EXCELLENT fanfic...hmmmmmm.

We have art so as not to die of truth ~ Neitzsche
http://www.mnartists.org/artistHome.do?rid=7922

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Tuesday, March 23, 2004 1:53 PM

KARENKAY99


Quote:

Originally posted by Hardware:
No way could they just do that. Dropping that on an audience blind WOULD make Mal seem unsympathetic. However, if you dress it up and make it dance a little first...

I can only imagine what Joss is going to do with the Reavers in a motion picture. He had what, 2 minutes to prep us for the Reavers in the pilot? Quick shots of those that could preparing to fight for their lives and others watching the big Reaver ship prowl on past. Any body remember how tense that scene felt?

Now imagine that blown up twice as big as life on the screen. Reavers being shot and still coming. People being held down and killed slow. Folks being set on fire, running, screaming until they drop still struggling. Brave grown men detailed to hold back the Reavers as long as possible dropping their weapons and running for the only safety possible, Serenity.

Now imagine the barely controlled chaos on Serenity. People crowding into the cargo bay carrying their few meager treasures in a bundle on their back. Refugees from the horror on the rim of civilized space. Mal, Zoe, Jayne Inara and Book barely keeping things under control. Simon treating injured in the medical bay. River entertaining some kids in the lounge. Serenity is stuffed beyond capacity. Kaylee in the engine room is worried the atmo might not hold up. Wash is on the bridge figuring how Serenity is going to handle with all this weight on board, one eye on the scope, keeping tabs on the Reaver ship. A twitch, the screen clears and the Reaver ship is on the move.

Wash calls down to Mal with the bad news. Mal orders Wash to lift off, but leave the ramp down. He wants to give every soul a fighting chance to make it. A few more people shove past him. And then the woman and her child appear. Too far away to make it as Serenity lifts. The Reavers right behind them.

Mal knows what is going to happen. The only mercy he can offer them is a quick death, cold comfort.

Joss said he wanted Firefly to be about the people history stepped on. It really does have a civil war feel to it. And during the civil war if a man was gut shot the only mercy their friends could offer them was a quick death. Indeed, in the original version of the pilot Mal may have had to shoot several of the men under his command since there were no doctors to treat someone who was gut shot.

It fits perfectly. Brilliant.

The more I get to know people the more I like my dogs.



this gave me goosebumps. i'm all choked up. i don't think i can wait for the BDM.

"They say the snow on the roof is too heavy. They say the ceiling will cave in. His brains are in terrible danger."

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Tuesday, March 23, 2004 5:44 PM

DEANNAMAY


I was just thinking. It would be an interesting twist if the part where he shoots the woman and child is a dream. He wakes up. Later on we find out through little scenes here and there that he was the child running. He just wishes someone could have "saved" him. Perhaps he saw his mother killed by Reavers. She died horribly, and he had to watch. His dream was the fulfillment of being able to save his mother, something he couldn't do as a child.

He knows too much of what they do, and about leaving someone behind, knowing they won't ever be able to forget what happened.

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Tuesday, March 23, 2004 10:43 PM

JARED


Quote:

Originally posted by DeannaMay:
I was just thinking. It would be an interesting twist if the part where he shoots the woman and child is a dream. He wakes up. Later on we find out through little scenes here and there that he was the child running. He just wishes someone could have "saved" him.
..
Perhaps he saw his mother killed by Reavers. She died horribly, and he had to watch.



leading to the question: who did? or if he was hiding somewhere, how did he keep it together? i just watched the short discussion with book again and he seemed too much in control. having someone defend them should have caused some serious reaction (but then, im not that good in judging characters and i cant remember a single outburst of mal)

but youre right that he is knowing suspicously much about them. he knows that the survivor is dangerous and what watching them can do to you. but if he had to watch (even worse, when he was a child), wouldnt he know that you can still remain sane? shouldnt he feel just the more compassion with someone who had to watch it and help him get over it instead of "too bad he survived. i want him off my ship."

doesnt mean i dont like your idea, im just not sure if it would fit in with what we already saw. joss warned us that the movie isnt the show and needs to work for those who never saw the show. but i think he will still try to be consistent with events from the show. though i wouldnt mind a few references to the show, if they arent important to understand the subject at hand and are meant to make people curious and watch the show.

im still curious who was closer to the truth. mal and jayne when they said reavers arent men anymore or book, who made it sound a little like you should actually pity them and try to help (though considering some of his thoughts, his real identity and that it sounded incredibly naive it might have been just an act to support his preacher role)

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Tuesday, March 23, 2004 11:49 PM

SHSSAY


I don't know what to say about the first rumor. It has a ring of truth to it. Joss had mentioned that the movie would focus more on the feral Reavers. Quite frankly, I love the idea of seeing them. If a brutish thug like Jayne is filled with dread at the mere mention of their name, they must be grody beings indeed. I agree that my imagination is probably going to do these caitiffs more justice than any Hollywood effect, but I'm still keenly interested to see what they could come up with.

The second rumor is by far more dubious. I do not think that Mal would shoot a mother and her young child. No. I do not believe that that has any truth to it at all. I do not profess to know everything about the character, but I don't think that measures up to who Mal is. I have always loved his sense of justice and decency and this just doesn't seem like it would fit in his personal philosophy. Shooting two innocents--a child?! No way in the 'verse.

I realize that the Reavers are an odious threat and it would be a dire thing to get caught by them, but I doubt that murdering the two intended victims would be something that Mal would do. That's just not the captain.

"Two by two, hands of blue." -River Tam

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Wednesday, March 24, 2004 5:03 AM

HORRID


I could see it happening if he was on the swingy rope thing being pulled up into the cargo bay and had no way of telling wash to stop, or if serenity was being chased at the time and couldn't stop, or if the child was spookin his cows

as for the reavers, The Dominion in DS9 started out only being described as did the shadows in B5, I think eventually the Reavers would have to be shown or it would seem like too much teasing and dragging out so if eventually they had to be shown I'd definatly say do it when you've got a movie budget to throw around

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Wednesday, March 24, 2004 5:23 AM

BROWNCOAT1

May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.


Channain wrote:

Quote:

OH! Man. This whole line of thinking could lead to an EXCELLENT fanfic...hmmmmmm.


Don't tease Channy.

Are you going to write a fan fic based on this idea?


"May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one."


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Wednesday, March 24, 2004 6:31 AM

CHANNAIN

i DO aim to misbehave


Quote:

Originally posted by BrownCoat1:
Are you going to write a fan fic based on this idea?



I am looking for new ideas. Heartbroken won't last much longer, and then I'll need something to keep my hand in. I saw an article on the QM2 over the weekend that sparked a murder mystery idea. It would get Mal and Inara off Serenity together, but I just need to do more background work before I decide if I can make it fly.


We have art so as not to die of truth ~ Neitzsche
http://www.mnartists.org/artistHome.do?rid=7922

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Wednesday, March 24, 2004 6:44 AM

BROWNCOAT1

May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.


Quote:

Originally posted by Channain:


I am looking for new ideas. Heartbroken won't last much longer, and then I'll need something to keep my hand in. I saw an article on the QM2 over the weekend that sparked a murder mystery idea. It would get Mal and Inara off Serenity together, but I just need to do more background work before I decide if I can make it fly.



I guess I will have to wander over and read you fan fic Channy. I haven't read much on this site, and I suppose it's time I make the effort.

"May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one."


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Wednesday, March 24, 2004 7:06 AM

CHANNAIN

i DO aim to misbehave


I'll warn you - it's quite a read right now. Five parts, and my word count just keeps going up. Part one was a little over 4000 - Part 5 was a little over 6600.

Consider yourself warned

We have art so as not to die of truth ~ Neitzsche
http://www.mnartists.org/artistHome.do?rid=7922

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Wednesday, March 24, 2004 2:14 PM

LJOSALF


John Ford did a similar scene with great impact in Drums Along the Mohawk (1939) with Henry Fonda and Claudette Colbert. This movie is set in Revolutionary War times. In one of the action sequences, the settlers are besieged by savage Indians and are running short of supplies including ammo and powder.

IIRC, the preacher goes unarmed to the Indian camp to try to arrange a peaceful resolution to the crisis. The folks trapped in the fort discover that his embassy has failed later that night when, in typical Hollywood savage style, the Indians tie him to an X cross and set a fire alight under him then retreat quickly out of range and wait for the folks in the fort to mount a rescue in order to ambush the rescuers in the darkness and gain access to the fort. I don't remember which character talks the settlers out of going to get the preacher--it's quick though--and the preacher is shot by one of the settlers (again don't remember which character but definitely not one you would expect to do the deed) to spare the preacher the horrible death that none of the settlers can prevent.

This scene highlights the consequences of failure when Henry Fonda's character later volunteers to run to the nearest fort to get help and is relentlessly pursued for more than a day by three Indians. It is a very fine movie in my opinion--cliched Indians not withstanding.

Ljosalf

The voyage of discovery is not in seeking new landscapes but in having new eyes.
Marcel Proust (1871 - 1922)

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