GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

Joss Whedon 101:Firefly

POSTED BY: ZENMAN8512
UPDATED: Sunday, March 27, 2011 00:15
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Friday, March 25, 2011 10:15 PM

ZENMAN8512


Its kind of a long article but it's pretty interesting plus there are links to other Firefly stuffs


http://www.popmatters.com/pm/feature/137607-joss-whedon-101-firefly/

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Saturday, March 26, 2011 5:57 AM

BYTEMITE


*fangirl squee @ article*

Uh. I mean, yeah. Pegged it.

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Saturday, March 26, 2011 7:45 AM

FEARTHEBUNNYMAN


I disagree with a lot of this actually:

"From our first introductions to the crew, it’s made clear that we’re not going to meet anyone new. We know all of these characters—all we need to do is remember how great they can be. The Honorable Outlaw. The Loyal Sidekick. The Goofy Getaway Man. The Hooker with a Heart of Gold. The Wandering Priest. The Kid. The Dandy. The Doltish Mercenary. There’s a bit of an X-factor in River, but beyond that, these archetypes are comforting and familiar. That they’re brought to life by a cast with what can only be described as utterly remarkable chemistry is a credit to the entire ensemble, but as far as the types of people they’re portraying are concerned, we’ve been down this road before. By and large they don’t surprise us. But that’s the whole point. They don’t have to surprise us. We don’t want them to be more complicated than they are. We want Jayne to be a lovable sonuvabitch because he’s already a lovable sonuvabitch. We want Kaylee to be adorable, because Kaylee is adorable.

Firefly borrows not only the physical space and group dynamic of Westerns, but even the story structure, which will be familiar to anyone who grew up on late night reruns of Kung Fu or Sunday morning marathons of Have Gun–Will Travel. The crew blows into an out of the way town looking for work, only to find trouble. They topple the local petty tyrant or scam the thuggish bureaucracy, and they jet off into the sunset and over the horizon. There’s snappy dialogue and out of nowhere bits of brilliant storytelling. But the frame remains a sparse one, and less than complex."

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Saturday, March 26, 2011 11:47 AM

BYTEMITE


?

That seems pretty right on still, actually. The characters are timeless characters, archetypes. Similarly, the basic premise of most of the episodes are pretty simple.

What Joss does is subvert expected STORY tropes within the framework of the episode premise more than he subverts the character types or the story he's telling itself. This is what makes the episodes so entertaining, is that they have these unexpected twists. But even with the twists don't really take those stories off the rails.

How many of us started watching Firefly and immediately grabbed on to it with the thought: "holy cats, I get these characters. I get this story." That's the reason Firefly has the appeal it does.

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Saturday, March 26, 2011 12:14 PM

FEARTHEBUNNYMAN


The way the author phrased it made it seem that the characters were their archetypes and nothing more. Simplistic. The plot wasn't as small scale as the article implies either, even less so in the film.

I was pulled into the show not because I found the characters familiar, but because I found them unique (some more than others, certainly, but still).

I suppose others' mileage may vary.

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Saturday, March 26, 2011 12:26 PM

BYTEMITE


Well, to be fair, for the series Joss often said that it was a show about the people history had stepped on. All of those episodes were small scale, centering around heists, looking for work, or cons (Saffron's episodes were all con stories). One episode out of all of those involved rescuing a character from a villain, but it was getting Mal away from Niska, a crime lord, still pretty small scale.

Now, you COULD argue that there was also clearly a slow building myth arc with River, Blue Sun, and the Alliance at it's center, and the series would have gotten much more complicated as time went on. That's fair to say, and it's the direction we saw in the movie, and in the comics. But we have to remember the episodes we saw in Firefly were early episodes, establishing episodes.

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Saturday, March 26, 2011 12:56 PM

FEARTHEBUNNYMAN


I don't disagree with you, but again withethe comments regarding the plot and the characters especially (in particular the first paragraph I posted) I don't think that's quite what the author was saying.

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Saturday, March 26, 2011 12:59 PM

BYTEMITE


Fair enough.

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Saturday, March 26, 2011 4:23 PM

FEARTHEBUNNYMAN


;p you are too reasonable for the internets. One of these days I'll get you in a flame war...

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Sunday, March 27, 2011 12:15 AM

THESOMNAMBULIST


Originally posted by fearthebunnyman:
Quote:

I disagree with a lot of this actually:

"From our first introductions to the crew, it’s made clear that we’re not going to meet anyone new. We know all of these characters—all we need to do is remember how great they can be. The Honorable Outlaw. The Loyal Sidekick. The Goofy Getaway Man. The Hooker with a Heart of Gold. The Wandering Priest. The Kid. The Dandy. The Doltish Mercenary. There’s a bit of an X-factor in River, but beyond that, these archetypes are comforting and familiar. That they’re brought to life by a cast with what can only be described as utterly remarkable chemistry is a credit to the entire ensemble, but as far as the types of people they’re portraying are concerned, we’ve been down this road before. By and large they don’t surprise us. But that’s the whole point. They don’t have to surprise us. We don’t want them to be more complicated than they are. We want Jayne to be a lovable sonuvabitch because he’s already a lovable sonuvabitch. We want Kaylee to be adorable, because Kaylee is adorable.

Firefly borrows not only the physical space and group dynamic of Westerns, but even the story structure, which will be familiar to anyone who grew up on late night reruns of Kung Fu or Sunday morning marathons of Have Gun–Will Travel. The crew blows into an out of the way town looking for work, only to find trouble. They topple the local petty tyrant or scam the thuggish bureaucracy, and they jet off into the sunset and over the horizon. There’s snappy dialogue and out of nowhere bits of brilliant storytelling. But the frame remains a sparse one, and less than complex."



I tend to agree with you Fearthebunnyman. That snippet is overly dismissive of the finer points of the characters. Of course we've seen these people before because you have to have seen people like that because it's about people. It's a very bizarre point to stress. It's almost like saying :
"Oh look Ferrari brought out another Ferrari car?!"

And the point about we don't want them being more complicated than they are is really saying nothing.

It's just lazy writing.


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