GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

Simon and River the Real love story

POSTED BY: PIRATEJENNY
UPDATED: Saturday, August 14, 2004 17:18
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Monday, August 9, 2004 2:00 PM

PIRATEJENNY


this is my 1rst time posting on this sight..I just have to say that I loved Firefly from the 1rst time it aired and I was pissed when fox cancelled it..not that I was surprised Fox has a habit of cancelling great shows

I was thrilled to say the least when I saw FireFly on DVD I didn't hesitate to buy it

from the 1rst I was intrigued with River and Simon for me they are the real love story on FireFly...I know they are brother and sister..and no I'm not talking about a sexual love..for me their love is so pure and so innocent..Simon and River have a bond that can't be broken..and I hope that if they put the show back on that this will be explored more

for me or at least as I conceive from what Joss W gave us..Simon and River have a great love..the kind of love that words can't do justice

Simon and River are soul mates...thats the only way I can do it justice with words

I know Kaylee has this crush on simon and I do think simon really really likes her..but I don't think he will ever love anyone as much as he loves River..nor will River ever love anyone as much as she loves Simon....

I can see this being a real problem for both when they try( probably without much success) to embark on more intimate relationship with others....unless the other person doesn't mind coming 2nd



anyway I hope hope to see Joss explore River and Simons great love more

Is it just me or does Jayne seem to have a little crush on Zoey

anyway I would love to hear what others think about this topic


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Monday, August 9, 2004 2:04 PM

APEX


I think Jayne has "a little crush" on most women. :)

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Monday, August 9, 2004 4:10 PM

WILDHEAVENFARM


This is relevant to your sentiment, I swear. It's a scene from a fic of mine that will never get written, apparently. I figure, since its just a blurb, I'll risk the ire of the masses and sitck it here.
+++
“Shh, we mustn’t wake them. I believe he was up all night with her,” Book said quietly to Kaylee as they stood in the doorway to the common room. Simon and River lay sleeping on the modestly uncomfortable couch. Simon slept on his side, facing out, and River on her side, facing her brother, one frail-looking hand clutching his shirt. His arm was across her out of an automatic and instinctive need to protect her. Even as they slept, the grown Tam children clung to each other.

“Wow. That’s so beautiful,” Kaylee whispered.

“Love, in such pure examples, is always beautiful. God is love, Kaylee.”

Kaylee smiled warmly, "I understand that now, Shephard."
+++

Mary
Always a beast, never a burden.

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Tuesday, August 10, 2004 3:09 AM

BROWNCOAT1

May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.


Welcome to the board PirateJenny. We are glad to have you w/ us. It is always great to greet a new fan to the family.

Your insight into Simon & River's relationship is very accurate in my opinion. I think that they love each other very much, as is evident by Simon's giving up his career, his life, his very dreams to rescue his sister and keep her safe from harm. Look at his actions in Serenity when he dives off the catwalk to tackle Dobson to keep him from taking River. Simon can be a bit pompous at times, but he will not hesitate to put himself in harm's way to keep River safe.

The love they share is strong. They are more than brother and sister, they are friends. Sure they have the crew of Serenity, but when it boils right down to it, all they have in the 'verse is each other.

"May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one."


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Tuesday, August 10, 2004 4:55 PM

THEREALME


Yes, welcome to the site!

Even more than Simon's fight with Dobson, it was Simon vs Early that really impressed me. Even AFTER he was shot, he came back for another try and got his butt kicked again.



The Real Me

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Tuesday, August 10, 2004 9:03 PM

PIRATEJENNY


Thank you all for the warm welcome I'm loving this board already..and I'm so happy to see that Joss's vision of River and Simon is shining through..they are just beautiful together

WildHeavenfarm

I would love to read your fanfic

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Tuesday, August 10, 2004 9:26 PM

YT

the movie is not the Series. Only the facts have been changed, to irritate the innocent; the names of the actors and characters remain the same


Quote:

Originally posted by TheRealMe:
Even more than Simon's fight with Dobson, it was Simon vs Early that really impressed me. Even AFTER he was shot, he came back for another try and got his butt kicked again.


It's easy to view Simon as a wimp, based on his speech, his dress, & the way Dobson & Stitch beat him like a cheap rug. But when he steps from his room in OIS, the guy's carryin' a full 6 pack. He didn't pick that up @the 7-11.

Keep the Shiny Side Up

Wutzon: Little Feat, medley "Cold,Cold,Cold/Tripe Face Boogie", from "Feats Don't Fail Me Now"

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Tuesday, August 10, 2004 9:36 PM

PIRATEJENNY




It's easy to view Simon as a wimp, based on his speech, his dress, & the way Dobson & Stitch beat him like a cheap rug. But when he steps from his room in OIS, the guy's carryin' a full 6 pack. He didn't pick that up @the 7-11.





its easy to take simon for a whimp..because he's very proper...but the guy is as brave as they come espeically when it comes to River...if anyone tries to hurt her..Simon doesn't even have to think .. he just goes off...but he is a thinker..River inspires him ..with her he both strong and vulnerable its a winning combination

I do love the scene in objects in the Sky when goes after Early

Simon can take a licking and still come back kicking!!

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Wednesday, August 11, 2004 3:13 AM

WILDHEAVENFARM


I've got some fics posted here, but they're not ...um, "nice", like that one. In fact, 2 out of 3 are pornographic. Not that that's a bad thing; I'm just letting you know. If you dig on drama, though, try my story "Glory, in the Dead of Night," http://www.fireflyfans.net/sunroomitem.asp?i=1634 A more shameless plug, there never was.

Mary
Always a beast, never a burden.

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Wednesday, August 11, 2004 3:27 AM

REGINLEIF


Did you watch the commentary on 'Serenity'? I just watched it today, and both Nathan and Joss say exactly the same thing about the relationship between River and Simon.

Also, welcome to this site!

You can't take the sky from me.

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Thursday, August 12, 2004 12:22 PM

PIRATEJENNY


I did watch the comemmtary on the DvD..but I honestly didn't know that they said that, I guess I'm going to have to watch it again..thats pretty awesome because thats just the feeling that I got from watching the River and Simon scenes

thanks for the welcome

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Thursday, August 12, 2004 1:37 PM

KARENKAY99


welcome piratejenny!!
i think simons dedication to river is summed up in safe when simon says 'light it'. he would give his life for her.
bummer, i'm an only child. i want a brother like simon!!

"They say the snow on the roof is too heavy. They say the ceiling will cave in. His brains are in terrible danger."

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Thursday, August 12, 2004 2:55 PM

AZIRAPHALE


Quote:

Originally posted by karenkay99:
i think simons dedication to river is summed up in safe when simon says 'light it'. he would give his life for her.



No disrespect meant, but I don't think that's what was happening there. Simon would, indeed, give his life to save River; in a way, he has—we're shown and told repeatedly how much he willingly—willingly!—sacrificed to save his little sister. He threw himself at Dobson and twice at Early, armed men he knew to be ruthless, to give River just that more of a chance of survival.

That said, his stepping onto the platform in "Safe" didn't feel like that to me. He knew they'd burn him, too, just to be rid of the "witch"; he knew she'd die regardless of what he did, and instead of standing by and watching, instead of facing a life without her, he chose to die at her side.

The real love story, indeed. Whatever's between Simon and Kaylee can too easily be written off as lust and the result of limited choices (but for both of them: the only other women Simon knows are married, professional, or blood to him, but the only other men Kaylee knows are married, her captain, celibate, and, well, Jayne—too ruthless, too much the asshole big brother for her to see him as a potential mate. Simon was tactless and stupid to put it so bluntly in "The Message", but he's not the only one in that situation.); Mal and Inara's mutual infatuation would have to move beyond the junior-high-school realm of goo-goo eyes and bickering for me to take it seriously (I'd love to see it happen, but for now I just want to scream "grow up" and make them play spin the bottle or something.)

Wash and Zoe are adorable, charming, and obviously very much in love, but theirs isn't much of a "story": they're already living (tolerably) happily ever after. Simon and River have just re-discovered each other, and as close as they may have been before she left for the Academy, I think they've gone light-years beyond that since their reunion.

For me, the Simon/River interaction is the emotional heart of the show. If the series had continued long enough to fully develop Mal's disillusionment and loss of faith, I don't doubt it would have taken precedent, but the Tams's situation got more screen time than his did in the first season, and so I connected with their situation more. River's desparate clinging to her brother in the pilot, his unwavering devotion to her in "Safe", the lengths he goes to in "Arial", and his aforementioned tendency to fling himself bodily at armed men on her behalf: all of it gives me a lump in the throat.

Simon would die for her, absolutely. But what we see in "Safe" is that he'd also choose to die with her.

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Thursday, August 12, 2004 3:04 PM

SHINYSEVEN


I think we have to read "Safe" in light of "The Gift" and "Once More With Feeling"--quite literally:
Now through the smoke she calls to me
To make my way across the flame
To save the day
Or maybe melt away--
I guess it's all the same.

Simon truly loves River, and truly goes to extremes for her (although I think that Oobjects in Space he's as much defending Kaylee as River). But in Out of Gas, they aren't clinging to each other--in fact they're not together at all. The Jossverse has a lot to show us about the extent to which heroism and suicidal tendencies are two sides of the same coin--I think that in Safe, Simon has just had all he can take, and he is sacrificing himself, but also at the end of his rope (like post-resurrection Buffy).

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Thursday, August 12, 2004 8:14 PM

PURPLEBELLY


In Serenity Simon is prepared to challenge Zoe to defend River.

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Saturday, August 14, 2004 4:56 PM

PIRATEJENNY


Quote:

Simon would die for her, absolutely. But what we see in "Safe" is that he'd also choose to die with her.


that is so so beautiful , because its so true, as we've seen from Safe that River and Simon were well connected even before she was taken by the Blue Sun group

I think if she had not been taken their bond would have been just as strong..but probably less obvious to anyone around them.. there is a telling scene in Sernity the 1rst esposide...when Simon is talking about River to the crew ..its as if he's lost in another world he is radient glowing ..he is beaming, its as if only he and his memories of River are the only thing alive the only thing in the room..when he looks around and sees Jayne looking at him in askance( like dude your in love with your sister look)
he snaps out of it...

I do think Simon is in love with River..but not in a sexual way..its more complicated then that more passionate its very pure ..if Simon and River had to sit down and explain their feelings for eachother to someone..I don't think either one would be able to ..

what they feel for eachother is beyond words

also in the deleted scene ..River ask Book to marry her and Simon..now I don't know if River was having a crazy moment..or if she was just going on pure emotion..instinct...or intution

perhaps River sensed in Simon her own desire and need and brought it to Book's attention

I think Simon and River are already married to eachother..via their connection..not married to eachother in a physical way but in an emotional visral way

I don't think either one can live without the other..perhaps it just seems more so because of their situation..their lives under their circumstances became woven so tight..Simon is River's only salvation..and River is Simon's life and light..their life is one, without eachother they both die both physcially and spirtually

you put it so eloquently, Simon didn't just give up his life for her..he was willing to choose to die at her side

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Saturday, August 14, 2004 5:07 PM

PIRATEJENNY


LOL

I love fanfic, the porn doesn't bother me, I also post on a LiRic site and you should read some of that fic..I'm no stranger to the smut

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Saturday, August 14, 2004 5:18 PM

PIRATEJENNY


Quote:

Simon truly loves River, and truly goes to extremes for her (although I think that Oobjects in Space he's as much defending Kaylee as River).



maybe he was defending Kaylee as much as he was River in Objects in the Sky..but only because he could it was more by default..Kaylee's destiny was tied to River's under those circumstances

Simon sums it up well in Objects in the Sky when he tells Early " my last act in this verse is not going to be betraying my sister"


or when River says to Early " I'll be your bounty Early"

She had no intentions of being his bounty, that act would have been a betrayal it would have took away Simon's life his light his spirt


its not to say that if Kaylee was in some dire trouble that Simon wouldn't help her if he could..just as he took up arms to help save Mal in War Stories.....but he would have done so with caution..because simon knows that if he dies then so does River her life is tied to his ans vice versa..they both need eachother to live

if Simon was ever forced to choose between Kaylee and River I think he would choose River.

I think Simon Likes and cares for Kaylee..but River comes 1rst

but its true Simone and Kaylee's choices are limited practiacally none exsistant..Kaylee was also infatuated with Tracy in the message..had he become a part of the crew she would have turned her attentions to him and Simon would not have been fazed

Kaylee is sweet and adoring and she makes goo goo eyes at Simon...there on the same ship..he can't ignore her

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