Dollhouse 2.03 'Belle Chose': Echo meets another BSG alumnus, Col. Saul Tigh. Post comments here. by Haken

DOLLHOUSE

Dollhouse 2.03 'Belle Chose': Echo meets another BSG alumnus, Col. Saul Tigh. Post comments here.

POSTED BY: HAKEN
UPDATED: Saturday, October 24, 2009 16:32
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Saturday, October 10, 2009 12:17 AM

Likes to mess with stuffs.

Michael Hogan (Col. Tigh), another talented BSG alumnus, pays a visit to the Dollhouse. Hogan's guest appearance alone is probably enough to make the episode worthwhile to watch. Or is it?

Post your reactions and comments to the episode here.

Oh, and remember, after this episode, Dollhouse goes on a break for a week because of baseball.

Yeah, I know, definitely bad timing since the show's rating is low enough as it is. Taking a break now will just completely wipe it out of existence from the minds of whoever that's left who still watches the show as it airs on Friday nights.

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Saturday, October 10, 2009 2:46 AM

SKL90713

First episode this season that I have not fallen asleep for a bit. Echo parts were just enough and they were compelling for a change. There were a lot of elements that neither my wife or I saw coming. The episode pulled no punches and the next 2 previewed (due to the 1 week hiatus) look strong as well. I hope that Fox will give it at least a few more weeks.

SKL90713

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Saturday, October 10, 2009 5:14 AM

ECGORDON

There's no place I can be since I found Serenity.

It was better than the two stand-alone eps that started the season, with some insight into events that will lead up to what we saw in "Epitaph One."

Tim Minear is a twisted bastard ain't he?

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Saturday, October 10, 2009 5:32 AM

DAVESHAYNE

It was a creepy little episode. I feel sorry for Echo having to carry around the emotions of the serial killer dude.

David

'Begone, sugar-free candy antichrist!' - Nathan Rabin.

'Geeks can't admit that anything worthwhile was invented before 1981. Soon, "making cocoa" will be called "milk hacking."' - Lore Sjoberg

http://xkcd.com/386/

"Don't worry. Captain Hammer will save us." - Penny.

I has myspace - http://www.myspace.com/daveshayneforpresident

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Saturday, October 10, 2009 5:39 AM

GILOVE2DANCE

How much do I love Victor? SO MUCH!!! He was hilarious as Kikki and terrifying as Terry.

The whole teaser before the titles were so terrifying and creepy...Tim Minear is completely brilliant as is Joss...fabulous episode.

I was also very pleased when I commented to my mum how fabulous it was she replied with "they are all amazing" My mum is now a full-blown Joss fan!! YAY!

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Saturday, October 10, 2009 6:28 AM

SHINY

I dunno. This one just didn't do anything for me. Looking forward to learning Sierra's backstory, though.

---

I don't need a gorram back-spaceship driver!!!

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Saturday, October 10, 2009 7:44 AM

BYTEMITE

First time this season I laughed: the costume "artist" and men waiting for ladies in the dressing room. Second time: Victor as Kiki.

Don't really understand quite HOW the switch could have happened, but sometimes these things need to be ignored for the art.

I liked this episode. Side story and other character goodness tied in with Echo's storyline well.

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Saturday, October 10, 2009 9:24 AM

DEWRASTLER

I like this episode a lot. Easily one of my favorites. The parallels between the Dollhouse does and what Terry does were great.

And this episode really utilized a lot of the cast. Besides Sierra, everyone had something to do, even Whiskey was brought up. I think that makes the show that much stronger, when it's not all on Eliza's shoulders.

And Vincent Ventresca from The Invisible Man is coming back in two weeks. That's awesome. Can't wait to find out about Sierra's backstory.

________________________________
People who don't care about anything will never understand the people who do

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Saturday, October 10, 2009 2:58 PM

RAHLMACLAREN

"Damn yokels, can't even tell a transport ship ain't got no guns on it." - Jayne Cobb

This episode was a bit better than the last two. And it actually read my mind. Sort of.

When they were in the dressing room, I thought "I wish Boyd was still Echo's handler and Paul was the head of security." Boyd was much like a father-figure to Echo, while clearly Paul has a "thing" for Caroline. Though that is a vaild life choice; for a handler it could be too distracting.

Right after I make the wish, Boyd walks into the room and says to switch assignments! Awesome, but then we barely see Boyd for the rest of the ep. D'oh! (Remember last season, when Echo was being imprinted with a new handler - not Boyd -, but during the imprinting she was looking right at Boyd? I thought that was supposed to mean something!)

[whine on]
Where's my Sierra?
[whine off]
Oh, I guess she was busy making the next episode. I'll forgive... if it's good. (Looks to be)

And of course, I got a real good laugh when Victor turned into Kikki.

--------------------------------------------------
Find here the Serenity you seek. -Tara Maclay

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Saturday, October 10, 2009 4:40 PM

DAVESHAYNE

I couldn't figure out what it was about the title that made me think it was a very important allusion so I googled it. http://www.sex-lexis.com/Sex-Dictionary/la%20belle%20chose Yup it's important.

David

'Begone, sugar-free candy antichrist!' - Nathan Rabin.

'Geeks can't admit that anything worthwhile was invented before 1981. Soon, "making cocoa" will be called "milk hacking."' - Lore Sjoberg

http://xkcd.com/386/

"Don't worry. Captain Hammer will save us." - Penny.

I has myspace - http://www.myspace.com/daveshayneforpresident

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Saturday, October 10, 2009 6:35 PM

GWEK

Apparently, I'm in the minority in thinking this ep was pretty bad.

It was good to see Saul Tigh, but Hogan was wasted in a miniscule role that could have been ably played by anyone with a pulse.

The idea of a serial killer and the concept of (literally) getting into his head to unearth his living victims is interesting, and, in the context of DOLLHOUSE, a logical extension of a story we've seem many times before.

What I take issue with is the execution of the concept.

The return of "man reaction" seemed grasping and inappropriate... not that I care about the joke--but directed at Adele? Really? For that matter, much of Adele's characterization seemed off (she allowed far too many of her employees to talk to her in familiar terms).

Similarly, Ballard is played for laughs in this episide a bit too much for my taste, from his light joking with Topher and Adele to his reaction to the "costuming."

Speaking of which: Was this Ballard's first assignment as handler? (A rhetorical question; we know it wasn't.) Why isn't he already familiar with the costuming process? He should have seen it already, and I would expect that it would be part of the handler briefing, even if he hadn't.

As usual, Echo's engagement was pretty weak tea. Banality and unoriginality of the school girl plot aside for a moment (I kept waiting for a twist that never came), how exactly did a lit professor become a client of the Dollhouse? This is THE DOLLHOUSE, for God's sake, not some mid-range escort service!

Then there's the non-Echo portion of the episode, which is usually the superior partof each episode. Simply put, the Dollhouse staff look like IDIOTS in this episode.

How is Hogan's character able to rescue his "nephew" without seetting off a single alarm?

The bit about Victor not being tagged with strip is ludicrous, and cheap writing.

And then there's the power surge. The Dollhouse has no power reserve or off-site assets? Seriously? SERIOUSLY? A power outage renders them completely impotent? SERIOUSLY?!?

I'm not even going to address the "WTF? How?" nature of the switch itself. I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt on this concept, but that doesn't mean I think they did a good job (or that it made sense).

All in all, another lackluster episode.

www.stillflying.net: "Here's how it might have been..."

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Saturday, October 10, 2009 8:03 PM

SHINYGOODGUY

I'm with you RahlMaclaren -

I wish Boyd was still Echo's handler and Paul was the head of security." Boyd was much like a father-figure to Echo, while clearly Paul has a "thing" for Caroline.

Also -

but during the imprinting she was looking right at Boyd? I thought that was supposed to mean something!)

I think that Lennix as Boyd is so good with Eliza that he brings out her best perfs in this show. But I too wish Boyd was still her handler because I think he's bonded with her as well. Somehow I don't trust Ballard, he may use Echo as he did with Mellie.

But getting back about your comment regarding Boyd and Echo. I think that there's more to it as well. Boyd and Echo are imprinted to one another, IMHO, and, at some point, Joss & Co. will reveal that (I hope).

It was a better ep, but I was somewhat confused by it all. Perhaps I should see Epitaph One.

SGG

Tawabawho?

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Sunday, October 11, 2009 2:05 AM

KHAMBILO

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
First time this season I laughed: the costume "artist" and men waiting for ladies in the dressing room. Second time: Victor as Kiki.

Same here. I laughed any time paul had to interact with the Kiki imprint. Also I found some of the dialogue between Kiki and the professor to be really funny but also kinda gross in the professor-is-really-sick sort of way.

This episode is definitely one of my favorite engagement-of-the-week type episodes, though as others have mentioned I am looking forward to Sierra's backstory next episode and then later on Summer Glau's role on the show.

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Sunday, October 11, 2009 11:18 AM

HELL'S KITTEN

Quote:
Originally posted by GWEK:
Apparently, I'm in the minority in thinking this ep was pretty bad. {Numerous reasons)

I agree with everything you said. It started out with a good idea, but I thought the execution was very poor; everything after the opening just failed to meet expectations. I won't repeat everything you said, even though I want to just for emphasis.... (Yeah, monitoring bio stats allows you to hit the froonium feedback switch to wipe the brain but the brain pattern said "zomg! i vill not be errrrazed!" so it hops a ride on the bio stat feed and oh look! there's eliza in a skirt! Srsly? Dooood. WTF. Also? All the "i must save caroline!" stuff? SHE SIGNED UP FOR THIS. what's to save??)

I'll just add that, after episodes like "Epitath One" and the two-part finale with Alpha, everything else is just... hollow. I don't know any other word for it.

We basically have unknowing actors being actors. Wow. Fascinating concept. Some of the "engagements" are interesting, but the "romantic" ones are just lame. The Client knows they're buying the experience and that the Doll doesn't really mean it. Even if the Doll doesn't know they don't mean it, the Client certainly does. So why bother spending that sort of cash, when you can get a non-Doll to do the same for less?

The implications of everything they do at the Dollhouse has been far too understated, except for the above mentioned episodes. So what we're left with is a hollow flesh show. Look! It's Eliza in a a little skirt! Look! It's Eliza in a corset! Look! It's Eliza being an airhead! That's nice and all - really, I can appreciate a lovely form - but it's not the high calibre entertainment I've come to expect from Whedon and cohorts.

And the other thing that's been bugging me about this show... I'm not sure how to put it... it's Joss' whole... "Gosh, hurting women is wrrroooooong" thing. Really? It's wrong? Golly-jee, Joss, thanks for letting me know. I've only been living it my whole life, big guy. It's not new, it's not revolutionary, he's not being "edgy" by pushing this idea; hell, we can even have careers, now! And, really, by constantly pounding that "message" through, not only is it sort of insulting, but it just makes the whole thing seem so trite.

All in all, the series has been a disappointment to me. There are some brilliant aspects, and very good moments here and there, but it's like there's just... something... missing... something not quite right with the series. If they could figure out what that something is and fix it, the show could be phenomenal.

But what do I know. I'm just a girl.

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Monday, October 12, 2009 6:21 AM

ZEEK

I really disliked this episode. It was the worst episode this season by far IMO. It even beats out a lot of the bad episodes from last season. I'll try to list everything I didn't like but I'll probably forget some considering the list is so long.

Serial Killer Guy. What in the world is his deal? He has no empathy. Fine. What in the world made him jump to turning people into dolls and having a little make believe session? Can we get some kind of explanation for that please? I get that he's making people into dolls so he's deranged. Gee I wonder if an organization that does similar things could be considered a parallel. Fine fine but still explain the crazy guy.

The Boyd/Ballard switch. Oh Ballard we need your expertise to interrogate this dude. Um...isn't the whole purpose of the dollhouse that they can program a person to be a much more precise expert in these types of situations? Heck we've practically seen them create super FBI agents before. Give me a break.

Convoluted reason Victor doesn't have a GPS tracking system. Um...didn't Ballard have to track Echo down just last week when she was stealing babies? Where was this GPS device last week? Didn't they have the same problem when Alpha kidnapped her? Get some consistency to the show. Don't just throw a new concept in without thinking.

Did Ballard just kill the serial killer at the end cause he's a bad person? Since when do they make such distinctions at the dollhouse? The guy had crazy connections apparently. That's gotta bring some heat down on them.

Also how did the guy survive the power outage? He seemed to be in critical condition and surviving off of machines. The power seemed to take out the whole dollhouse but the guy did just fine?

bah I'm sure there's more. Basically at the end of the episode I was left with a "wtf was that?" feeling. Not good for a show that's hanging by a thread.

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Monday, October 12, 2009 8:08 AM

BYTEMITE

Quote:
And the other thing that's been bugging me about this show... I'm not sure how to put it... it's Joss' whole... "Gosh, hurting women is wrrroooooong" thing. Really? It's wrong? Golly-jee, Joss, thanks for letting me know. I've only been living it my whole life, big guy. It's not new, it's not revolutionary, he's not being "edgy" by pushing this idea; hell, we can even have careers, now! And, really, by constantly pounding that "message" through, not only is it sort of insulting, but it just makes the whole thing seem so trite.

Since that concept is pretty much the basis of the show, I don't think that finding the "missing something" would make the show phenomenal for you. I seem to recall these themes were still a major part of the episode Omega and Epitath One.

It's not edgy, granted, it may be trite, granted. But I think the message about abuse, particularly towards women, is a message that still needs to be said, because clearly certain attitudes, mindsets, and the abuse itself persists. Maybe it's tiring for you, but imagine the alternative: a show that just dismisses exploitation and abuse as okay. I think you'd have an even more negative reaction to that.

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Monday, October 12, 2009 9:38 AM

HELL'S KITTEN

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
Since that concept is pretty much the basis of the show, I don't think that finding the "missing something" would make the show phenomenal for you. I seem to recall these themes were still a major part of the episode Omega and Epitath One.

No....... I mean, I know it's been part of the show since the beginning, and didn't mean to infer that it was just these first few episodes of this season. In fact, it's a strong "theme" throughout all of Joss' work. Where it used to be powerful and subtle, it has now just become sloppy and ham-fisted in Dollhouse.

Also, I'm not conviced that "abusing wimmens is wrong!" is the basis of the show. "Epitath One" explored the broad reaching consequences of this sort of technology on mankind as a whole. THAT was interesting. More of that sort of exploration of conceptual technologies, their impact on flawed or corrupt people, and how other flawed people try to deal with it or make things right would make the show at least interesting to watch. Maybe that's what's missing. Who knows. But that *would* make the show "phenomenal" for *me*.

Quote:
But I think the message about abuse, -- is a message that still needs to be said

I'm not saying to drop it altogether or ignore it or anything else. I'm saying either find a different way to say the message without being so pathetically, insultingly obvious, or just move the fuck on. Subtlety and depth used to be Whedon show strong suits; subtlety and depth - in my opinion - is rare to the point of being an endangered species at best in this series.

Quote:
Maybe it's tiring for you, but imagine the alternative: a show that just dismisses exploitation and abuse as okay. I think you'd have an even more negative reaction to that.

Oh, I highly doubt that.

...have you seen Mad Men or Deadwood or...? XD

Also? For a show that cries out against exploitation, it sure shows a hell of a lot of skin without apology. Oh, look! It's Eliza's hot, tight ass in a teensy, barely-there dress! (Pilot episode).

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Monday, October 12, 2009 10:41 AM

BYTEMITE

Not so much abuse of WOMEN is the theme (and if it seems like I'm contradicting myself, sorry about that), but abuse and exploitation in general. I think the male dolls are just as much abused and exploited, but because of certain social (double) standards, it's the abuse of the women that tends to get the most attention.

The theme I actually find most interesting is the endless jump through hoops justifications that all of the characters involved with the dollhouse have to go through. But that doesn't mean that abuse and exploitation isn't THE major theme.

As far as I'm aware, Mad Men and Deadwood are period pieces from when exploitation of women was more acceptable. In spotlighting this, they spotlight how actually unacceptable it is. And I'm also reasonably sure that they don't play those themes straight.

Of course, if there's ever a scene in either of them where some woman gets beaten or raped and the show honestly tries to imply "that bitch got what was coming to her," then feel free to prove me wrong.

Quote:
Also? For a show that cries out against exploitation, it sure shows a hell of a lot of skin without apology. Oh, look! It's Eliza's hot, tight ass in a teensy, barely-there dress! (Pilot episode).

That's intentional. The contradiction is meant to make you uncomfortable. I know it does for me.

Though perhaps males in the audience feel differently...?

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Monday, October 12, 2009 10:57 AM

ASARIAN

Quote:
Originally posted by GWEK:
Apparently, I'm in the minority in thinking this ep was pretty bad.

I thought it was pretty bad, too. +1

Quote:

The return of "man reaction" seemed grasping and inappropriate...

That was my exact, erm, reaction. The "man reaction" thingy was gratuitous and horridly out of place. Topher originally said "man reaction" because he was embarrassed to say "erection" in front of the ever-so-lovely Dr. Saunders. This time he said it, yes, why eaxctly?

Quote:

As usual, Echo's engagement was pretty weak tea. Banality and unoriginality of the school girl plot aside for a moment (I kept waiting for a twist that never came), how exactly did a lit professor become a client of the Dollhouse? This is THE DOLLHOUSE, for God's sake, not some mid-range escort service!

Mid-range escort service plot aside, Eliza Dushku can't act! I know, I'm jumping on a popular bandwagon here (one I stayed off so far); but it's beginning to annoy me. 'Man reactions' aside, what has she done for me lately? She really only can play one type of character. And, at some point, no matter how hot you are, that becomes a turn-off. Enver Gjokaj, however (the guy who plays Victor), is a brilliant actor. He goes from a Russian gangster, to being an FBI agent, to being Kikki, and is actually a completely different person each time!

Quote:

And then there's the power surge. The Dollhouse has no power reserve or off-site assets? Seriously? SERIOUSLY? A power outage renders them completely impotent? SERIOUSLY?!?

Ah yes, the infamous power surge. Let's assume for a moment that they're lacking Uninterruptable Power Suppy (UPS) units -- you know, those things every Tom, Dick, and Harry has on their home office computer -- and everything went indeed off. Poof. Could someone then at least explain someone else, that when you take the power off a computer, it kinda needs to boot up again!? And that it's not just monitor-off-monitor-on and magically pick up where you left off. A real server park (even a small one) would still take, at the very least, ten minutes or so to load up properly, as things generally need to be started in sequence (routing servers, database backend servers first, etc).

Quote:

I'm not even going to address the "WTF? How?" nature of the switch itself. I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt on this concept, but that doesn't mean I think they did a good job (or that it made sense).

I had rather a WTF? moment my own self there. So they sent a remote blanking signal (like the Chinese did in Epitaph One); apart from the mumbo-jumbo as to how this signal would be dispersed, somehow doing so, also magically, results in an imprint-switcheroo that works how exactly??

I'll toss 'em a few points for imprinting Victor with the 'brain' of the serial killer (points which I, sadly, must immediately deduct again after seeing the ridiculous brain-scan with the black spots for missing empathy/conscience/whatever centra).

All in all, 'tweren't all that good.

--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

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Monday, October 12, 2009 1:21 PM

TRAVELER

I like this episode, although I had a hard time believing their security is so bad. Actives Whiskey just walks out and Victor is taken out without anyone noticing. Loved how Victor changed to Kiki. Enver Gjokaj is showing the range he has in this series.

http://www.imdb.com/mymovies/list?l=28764731
Traveler

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Monday, October 12, 2009 3:07 PM

HELL'S KITTEN

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite: (stuff)

Thank you for your interpretation.

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Friday, October 23, 2009 12:07 PM

GRIZWALD

I suspended disbelief, as I often do, and just enjoyed it. Victor was so scary as the serial killer guy. He and the other actor did such a superb job of matching one another's mannerisms, expression, body language. So great.

And then I just about died when he was Kiki! It still makes me giggle just thinking about it! Part of it was the uptight preppy clothes and him wagging his bottom at those guys in the club. LOL

I don't see a thread about episode 2, Instinct. That one really hit me hard. I really liked it. It showed up what we are all seeing about the whole imprint idea: People don't wipe. Not completely. You make someone a parent, you cannot easily unmake that. I would include fathers.

___________________________________________________
High Priestess of Pork and Ag-Related Activities of the MYTHICAL LAND OF IOWA

Click on my profile for my Annoyingly Long List of Firefly Links.

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Saturday, October 24, 2009 4:32 PM

JAMERON4EVA

HEY, AT LEAST WE GET TO SEE MORE OF THE ONE EYED FRACKING CYLON!

"WE WILL FIND THIS 13TH COLONIE, THIS PLANET CALLED EARTH." WILLIAM ADAMA, COMMANDER BATTLESTAR GALACTICA,

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