So, what does everyone think? by InvaderChat

Hey there, I didn't see an actual discussion thread about the series yet so I thought I'd start one up ^_^

There may be some spoilers below people!

So, what did people think of the premiere? I hold the seemingly popular opinion that the pacing of the pilot was WAY too fast and that a lot of the things that happened in the pilot may have been better off separated by a few episodes. It didn't really give me too much time to care much about Vince before all the bad shite happened to him. I found the pacing of 'Tarot' considerably better and I hope that the writers were simply being somewhat savvy by starting the series off quickly to get viewers in and then will slow down as it goes on.

I mentioned that I didn't get a chance to care too much about Vince before the whole transformation occurred but already after the second episode (I watched them separated by one day so I had some breathing space I guess) I am starting to care more about him, it's as if they're trying to get us attached to the character AFTER he's had these horrible things happened to him and kind of care more in retrospect as we learn more about him and his family life which I find quite interesting.

Other things seemed buried by the fast pacing such as people assuming Orwell to be male. Why even bother when you've been flaunting the fact that Summer Glau plays Orwell for months? And Vince learning to be a cape wielding master in such a short space of time with a montage seemed a bit hasty as well. I liked the fact that he's still getting his ass handed to him such as when he goes for scales and hurriedly rushes in against Chess. These things fit more into what I would have preferred which is that he slowly gains new abilities and techniques as the series progresses (not like learning to catch knives in one day!) but the fact that he doesn't just kick everyone's ass is good.

Another complaint I've heard is that the series is too 'camp'. Well what the hell did you expect from a cape wearing hero? Sorry folks but I think that the campiness is excellent and I actually laughed out loud at some of this so called 'poorly written humor'. It just feels like one of those series which isn't going to be TOO serious but will have its dark areas, it certainly has room to grow.

I liked the chapter device that they used, naming individual 'sections' of the show. I am not a comic book fan but I thought it was a nice touch.

Overall I really liked the first two episodes and am eagerly awaiting the third, I'm definitely going to stick with this for a while, especially if they slow down and take a breath. I just wonder what they're going to have left to show if they keep hitting us with revelations like the pilot did, it really doesn't need to become a 'villain of the week' story which I feel it is in danger of becoming, I'll be watching and waiting to see.

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Saturday, January 15, 2011 2:45 AM

You know it's funny, but I agree with most of your observations. I really wanted to like this show (mainly because of Summer being in it), but I too thought the pacing to be a bit fast in the pilot. It could have been stretched out over a couple of episodes. They should have developed his training over a couple of episodes, not in a montage.

Orwell: Again your point is well taken. Why hide her (in the episode) when all along the show promoted Summer's role. Strange.

I too liked the more appropriate pacing in the 2nd episode. I would not like to have a "villian of the week" show, but rather a character development as to The Cape, Orwell (she's Chess's daugther - it's so obvious) and Max Malini.

The campiness is fun. The store owner telling the Cape to work on getting a new superhero name was funny. It is acknowledging the audience who may be thinking the same thing. Poke fun in this type of show I always say, it just adds a little wink.

One thing though: I'm not feeling the character of Vince Faraday. I'm not sure if it's how he is written or because of the actor. Summer and Keith David are solid, and I like Vinnie Jones and the short dude (from Pirates of the Caribbean).

One choice that the producers made that I agree with. They don't have The Cape stopping by to "talk" to his son every episode. That's a good call on their part.

Having said that; the jury's still out for me. I'm going to give it a chance though (for Summer).

SGG

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Saturday, January 15, 2011 4:30 AM

You agree with me? Now that IS funny :P

But yes, I would have much preferred Vince's framing to occur at the end of episode one, then spend maybe even two episodes learning from the carnival folk and THEN move onto taking on villains. We've missed out on him being all anxious to confront Chess and being told to be patient and all that stuff! As it is he's basically gone from cop to framed villain to caped crusader with the carnies to having his own lair all over the course of two episodes. Him leaving the carnival could've (and in my opinion should have) been some sort of emotional argument far later down the track when we'd seen the friendship between them grow.

Oh yes! I had already felt that Orwell being Chess' daughter was a very obvious answer to her mysteriousness and her random source of monies, forgot to mention that. I basically just hoped to myself that the writers wouldn't do something so obvious and cliche, I'm going to hold out hope they do something different but I'm not betting on it.

Absolutely loved the store part and the quick little 'Where's your Cape' 'At the drycleaners' line in the alleyway, silly but funny and showing again that the show isn't going for dark and edgy, at least not all of the time.

I was worried that they were going to make Vince visit his son as sort of bookends for each episode or something stupid, very much agree that was a good call.

Yeah, I'm still on the bench as far as Vince. Like I said he's grown on me since the first episode and I think that I began to 'get him' a bit more in the space between watching Tarot and now. It's like, he's clearly a 'good guy' but he's a cop and a soldier too, I think a lot of people would have taken the tickets Malini offered and left.

I'm loving the cast in general as well, I thought 'Ruvi' (I think that's his name) the hypnotist guy was cool as well, dunno who the actor is but the hypnotic duels were fun.

I read in at least one review that the second episode was too full of angst and stuff for their liking. Where was there too much angst? I thought if anything there could have been MORE angst. Vince isn't blubbering about his family, his kicking ass to get them back and his family aren't even sitting at home crying, his kid is being steadfastly brave due to the words of 'The Cape' and his wife is out there getting (demanding) a job.

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Saturday, January 15, 2011 5:57 AM

ECGORDON

There's no place I can be since I found Serenity.

I rarely make a decision on a show after just two episodes, so I'll reserve judgment for a few more weeks. Of course, if a show is clearly atrocious it doesn't even take one full ep for me to give up on it, but The Cape is not that. It is unfortunate that the weakest element is the lead character, but as has been mentioned, that is the fault of several things, writing, pacing and an actor that is not allowed enough time to live and breath as his character.

While it may seem logical to assume Orwell is Fleming's daughter, don't you think she took a big chance by sitting at the next table over from him at the restaurant? Wouldn't he be able to recognize her even with the dark wig? More likely the daughter of his former partner whom he killed.

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Saturday, January 15, 2011 6:23 AM

Yes of course, I'm basically just talking about first impressions and whether people think they'll stay with it for now.

That's a good point about Lyons not having a chance to settle into the character yet. Probably furthered by the pacing. I'm hoping that the pacing will slow down and as it does the writing will improve. I just hope it has a chance to get there.

I thought that as well, it was one of the things that gave me hope that Orwell wouldn't be Fleming's daughter. On the other hand though, although Orwell needs to keep her identity secret, does any random person actually know her appearance? It was my impression that she was just like a faceless blogger especially considering that colleague of Vince thought she was male so maybe she was in disguise specifically to fool him? Not like your own father wouldn't recognize you in a wig but it's better than nothing if you don't walk right up and talk to him or possibly they were separated when Orwell was significantly younger.
She did seem worried about the carnival peeps seeing her when she dropped Vince off when he was wounded but that was probably because she had no real explanation for being there and her face might have been connected with the name/identity of Orwell whereas if she just strolled into the restaurant with no disguise but using an alias then she'd just be another person (unless Chess IS her father).

I guess what I'm saying is that, while I agree that Orwell getting that close to Chess if he is her father even in disguise is a horrendous risk, the point could still go either way.

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Sunday, January 16, 2011 12:05 AM

More likely the daughter of his former partner whom he killed.

Oooooo, I like that EC. It just seems more villiany, you know evil ex-partner kills to gain control of the entire empire. Or maybe he takes over her father's identity and is posing as him in his place. Nah, that doesn't work because she would know it's not him. But yeah, I like it.

It's cliche but it works for me.

As far as the carnival people. That is truly a headscratcher. Maybe it's not as cliche as I make it out to be. Perhaps with better pacing, writing, directing and acting this could be a guilty pleasure hit.

SGG

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Sunday, January 16, 2011 7:01 AM

BLUEEYEDBRIGADIER

Quote:
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
More likely the daughter of his former partner whom he killed.

Oooooo, I like that EC. It just seems more villiany, you know evil ex-partner kills to gain control of the entire empire. Or maybe he takes over her father's identity and is posing as him in his place. Nah, that doesn't work because she would know it's not him. But yeah, I like it.

It's cliche but it works for me.

SGG

Personally, I'm starting to wonder if Wheeler & Co. don't have a tricksy plan to do a double-blind on us.

I mean...things seem semi-obvious that there's gonna be some connection between Orwell and Peter Fleming/Chess (whether it's the classic cliche of devil father/angel daughter or something a bit more removed like the idea of Orwell being the daughter of a former partner or something of Fleming's).

However, I gotta wonder if some of the dialogue from Tarot doesn't hint at something a bit more interesting...Vince maybe not being the actual Vincent Faraday, perhaps? Think about it...two separate flashbacks seem to have Vince rather obsessively focusing on "his" family's history as protectors and guardians of Palm City, with a third hinting at Vince having to do undercover work and being a different person that Dana wouldn't have liked much. "Vince" taking over the life of someone else?

Still, I'm all for the series, as long as things settle down a little in pacing to let Summer and David Lyons breathe a little as their respective characters.

"The revenge of the beaten comes in refusing to fall." -- Mal, in "The Losing Side - Chapter 45" by jetflair

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Monday, January 17, 2011 3:20 AM

*Spoilers for episode three!*

Hmm, yes the daughter of some sort of partner seems interesting. Infact everyone's ideas seem interesting but after watching episode three it's pointing more and more towards Orwell being Chess' daughter. However it's also introduced the (in my opinion) interesting dynamic of Chess/Fleming actually searching for his daughter and simultaneously hunting Orwell and ordering 'his' death. That'll be interesting to see come to a head and it also addresses my earlier comment about bothering to set up Orwell as a more secretive figure (with people thinking she's male et cetera) it's interesting because we know who she is but the mystery is still there for the characters, as if we're on the opposite side of it.

In my opinion I think that this episode has definitely picked up over the other two. Pacing was MUCH better and left me feeling a lot more hopeful for the series. I guess at it's heart it was essentially a 'villain of the week' type of plot but with enough other stuff going on to keep it interesting. I mean, comics themselves are a bit like that aren't they?

This episode also brought up the previously mentioned 'Cape visiting Trip' scene which I didn't much like. In my opinion it took away from the emotion involved with The Cape seeing his wife talking to her boss scene in which he saw himself almost starting to be replaced in a way but couldn't do anything about it, but then he goes and gets to hang with Trip anyway so it kinda detracts. Obviously it's still there because he can't reveal himself as Vince but still.

I was interested to learn a bit about the history of the cape itself and I thought Gregor was pretty cool as a villain. I also felt that their final battle was pretty darn cool though it did seem to end a bit abruptly.

I'm wondering if Vince's attitude issues (nearly killing that guy, the whole argument with Orwell) are kinda like a one episode thing which have been resolved by the 'I'm not like him' thing or if we're going to see a darker side.

So what do you guys think?

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Monday, January 17, 2011 4:34 AM

ZEEK

I didn't really like either of the first two episodes. There isn't a single interesting character in the show yet. The one who's doing the best is the "widow" wife and she's basically in the background for the most part.

The Cape himself is just an idiot tough guy who doesn't seem to do too much thinking. Not very interesting.

Chess is just evil for the sake of being evil so far. That's the same reason I gave up on V. Morena's character was just plain evil. Interesting villains aren't evil like that. They're doing evil things because they think it's the right thing to do in their own twisted way.

Orwell really hasn't been explored yet. So, nothing to say there.

I was hoping this cape guy would be a real super hero though. Instead he's just a guy in a mask and cape with uh carny powers. That's not helping. I really can't imagine this show will survive for too long.

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Monday, January 17, 2011 11:29 AM

ECGORDON

There's no place I can be since I found Serenity.

Where you at? I thought the third episode didn't air until tonight. I know it wasn't on last night because the Golden Globes were.

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Monday, January 17, 2011 2:48 PM

I think shows are becoming more and more plain and boring. I mean a man with cape? Yawnfest. America is obsessed with superheroes and he does not qualify.

[Inara: It's all right. I mostly keep to myself. When I'm not whoring.]

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Monday, January 17, 2011 3:39 PM

Well SO FAR Chess is just an evil villain but that's probably just because it's episode three and his motives haven't been revealed yet. I think he immediately became less shallow when it was revealed that he was searching for his daughter and for what purpose is he trying to build this police state? Surely not just for the evulz? I think that will be explored later.

And I also find Max Malini interesting, he's obviously got some secrets and Orwell seems intriguing. Vince himself...yeah okay, he is a bit of an idiot tough guy but maybe we'll see him grow into a more sophisticated person as he learns what it really means to be a hero?

In what way does he not qualify as a superhero? No powers? I think he's doing pretty well for some guy who was just a cop a few weeks ago :P
And as far as the show itself goes, so far I don't think it's boring at all, better than a LOT of other stuff to come out of America. I'm kinda liking the mystery behind the actual cape itself too, it's not just some lab-grown super-cape it's got this legacy and it's not a particularly nice one it seems.

As for you Mr. Gordon, my location must always be a mystery...just kidding. I'm in Western Australia and it must have aired SOMEWHERE because I had access to it so I don't really know.

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Monday, January 17, 2011 3:46 PM

I dunno maybe it's the whole special cape thing...not sure...

[Inara: It's all right. I mostly keep to myself. When I'm not whoring.]

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Monday, January 17, 2011 3:53 PM

Yeah okay, fair enough.
I think it's good though because the cheeziness is kind of pointed out, I think they KNOW it's silly and that's why it works for me. But really, how serious can you expect any superhero show to get?

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Monday, January 17, 2011 3:58 PM

You are right. I stopped like super heroes because of Spider Man. Either it was the actor or the way they portrayed him (whiny whiny whiny).

[Inara: It's all right. I mostly keep to myself. When I'm not whoring.]

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Monday, January 17, 2011 4:11 PM

You mean the movies? I still think the cartoon and stuff is awesome but yes, I didn't much like the movies. I thought the first was acceptable but after that...eugh.

What about the Batman movies?

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Monday, January 17, 2011 4:12 PM

Yeah I meant the movies. Thought Superman was decent. Thought the first Spiderman was okay. Spiderman 2 made me realize how much he resembled a woman. Didn't even bother with Spiderman 3. I haven't seen Kickass yet.

[Inara: It's all right. I mostly keep to myself. When I'm not whoring.]

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Monday, January 17, 2011 4:24 PM

Haha, except for the woman part that's pretty much how I viewed the decline of the movies, 3 is even worse. I always thought he was just a whiny kid.

Kick-ass seems to be really popular but I thought it was totally horrendous. Worst superhero based thing I've EVER seen.

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Monday, January 17, 2011 5:49 PM

Also, a question for after people see episode three wherever they are. What do you think of the cape's corrupting influence? Do you think it will continue or be a one episode thing like I mentioned earlier? Is it just the power the cape gives that is corrupting or does it have an actual influence or something? :O Somehow I thinks its just the power.

*EDIT - And another thing, Gregor spent twenty years in prison? What was so special about the day where he was able to kick everyone's ass and escape? Why didn't he do that day one, escape artist that he is?

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Monday, January 17, 2011 6:43 PM

BLUEEYEDBRIGADIER

Quote:
Originally posted by InvaderChat:
Also, a question for after people see episode three wherever they are. What do you think of the cape's corrupting influence? Do you think it will continue or be a one episode thing like I mentioned earlier? Is it just the power the cape gives that is corrupting or does it have an actual influence or something? :O Somehow I thinks its just the power.

*EDIT - And another thing, Gregor spent twenty years in prison? What was so special about the day where he was able to kick everyone's ass and escape? Why didn't he do that day one, escape artist that he is?

I personally liked the idea of the cape having a history, with questionable influence on the behaviour of the wearer, though I think that little bombshell could have been teased out a little more before stuff like Max being the last Kozmo the Unkillable and the cape being almost like the symbiote from Spiderman that created Venom and Carnage.

And why he picked that day to escape? Why did any Batman villain pick a certain day to escape from Arkham Asylum? Cuz it suited the writer to have that Rogues Gallery member out and about, probably. Same for why Gregor waited 20 years: convenience...unless the cape was communicating to Gregor it had a new bearer? That or something like it was the first day Gregor could have been in a non-solitary lockup cell and easier to break out from

"The revenge of the beaten comes in refusing to fall." -- Mal, in "The Losing Side - Chapter 45" by jetflair

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Monday, January 17, 2011 8:17 PM

Yeah, I agree. It's taking it in sort of a ye olde' relic direction instead of out and out magic cape. It also kinda ties it into the carnival history more as well. Yes I was thinking about the whole Venom/Carnage parallel too but I think it might be more of a subtle thing than that.

Of course convenience was the reason :P I just thought I might have been missing something. Right at the start where the warden or whatever is threatening him they must have pulled him out of his cell after twenty years and threatened him just in case he was planning to escape. 'I know you haven't escaped for the last twenty years but you'd BETTER not be thinking about doing it tonight!'

I like the idea that the cape was calling out to him, maybe not in an outright mystical way but maybe he could just feel it or something, nice one.

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Sunday, January 23, 2011 1:00 PM

FIREFLYPASSENGER

This is what I think.

The actor does not believe in or understand Vince Faraday. In the second ep he was offered an out and rejected it. But I didn't believe Vince, because the actor did not believe Vince would make that choice. I am sure Vince meant it but the actor did not sell it.

Sorry to say but I think David Lyons is the weakest link.

Oh and the reason the 3rd ep was better is due largely to the fact we had more Orwell/Summer present. I saw all 3 eps in a row.

I was so upset watching the first ep on DVR that I started to fastforward for Summer to appear. I started to fastforward at 41 minutes and she apeared at 43 miutes. WHY? We already knew she was Orwell.

I will watch for Summer Glau but not sure how long the show will last unless it suddenly gets really good. The rest of the cast starting with Keith David is great. I love the wife. Just not Vince.

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Sunday, January 23, 2011 4:59 PM

FEARTHEBUNNYMAN

I love Keith David over-playing every scene (PS anyone here remember 'Gargoyles'?) But Summer is so not at her best here. I don't blame her so much as the dialogue, because I know she can deliver a scene, and even awkward lines (with good directing) but its not happening here. So that makes it painful to watch.
David Lyons is a weak link now, but I suspect he's the type of actor that grows into a role.
I'm really not sure I'm willing to give the show a chance though. The circus stuff is always fun for me but the superhero stuff is falling flat on its face.
/So that's my take.

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Sunday, January 23, 2011 7:24 PM

BLUEEYEDBRIGADIER

Quote:
Originally posted by FireflyPassenger:
This is what I think.

The actor does not believe in or understand Vince Faraday. In the second ep he was offered an out and rejected it. But I didn't believe Vince, because the actor did not believe Vince would make that choice. I am sure Vince meant it but the actor did not sell it.

I personally don't think David Lyons is doing a bad job, but I agree that certain scenes like Vince rejecting the plane or train tickets out of Palm City didn't get sold well as it could have, and mainly for the reasons you give, FireflyPassenger.

However, I have to wonder how ANYONE could technically reject the offer when the situation is structured they way it is, what with Trip and Dana being alive, and he could just swoop in, show he's alive and get them out of Dodge long enough to regroup and figure out a way to get Fleming/Chess without needing to run around in a hooded stage magician's cape. The Cape seems like an attempt to merge a character like Frank Castle/The Punisher - ex-solider & law enforcement officer going after the dirtbags who wronged him - with Batman (the gadgets and the cape-utilizing costume), but motivation like Frank Castle or Bruce Wayne's family being gunned down in front of them are missing...there's less reason for Vince to be gallivanting around Palm City compared to even vaguely similar heroes.

Quote:

Sorry to say but I think David Lyons is the weakest link.

Oh and the reason the 3rd ep was better is due largely to the fact we had more Orwell/Summer present. I saw all 3 eps in a row.

I was so upset watching the first ep on DVR that I started to fastforward for Summer to appear. I started to fastforward at 41 minutes and she apeared at 43 miutes. WHY? We already knew she was Orwell.

Yeah, I kinda scratched my head at that as well, since anyone who saw ads for the show or viewed any promo material knew Summer was playing Orwell. Plus, the final scene of Kozmo, having that overlay of Fleming looking at the ballerina in the music box with Orwell on the acrobatic apparatus kinda reveals what would be a major plot twist rather early if it's not a red herring.

I've remarked on this before in related threads, but I think the 2-hour opener should have been just the first episode, and Tarot should have been the first episode to air on a Monday night. More time was needed to get things developed, including Orwell being revealed sooner so the partnership could have more time to develop in the first place.

Quote:

I will watch for Summer Glau but not sure how long the show will last unless it suddenly gets really good. The rest of the cast starting with Keith David is great. I love the wife. Just not Vince.

"The revenge of the beaten comes in refusing to fall." -- Mal, in "The Losing Side - Chapter 45" by jetflair

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Sunday, January 23, 2011 10:36 PM

You mean that cartoon Gargoyles? I remember it but didn't know Keith David voiced in it 'til I looked it up. I agree that he is absolutely brilliant in this though. I actually haven't seen much of his stuff to be honest.

My opinion of David Lyons kind of fluctuates in different situations. Overall though I think there's room for improvement but also I think he is actually using that room and has already improved since the first episode.

I don't necessarily agree with showing only the pilot first up but the structure of the first episodes should definitely have been different. I think if they slowed the pacing down AND only showed one episode as a premiere that would have been good.

!**Episode Four Spoilers to follow**!

I thought this was another solid episode much like episode three. I like the fact that they seem to have slowed down and are moving along at a much better pace so we can actually feel interested in something before it just happens in a big bang across a ten minute timespan.

I was a bit worried that with the Carnival of Crime heisting the train we were going to have ANOTHER thing that could have been a climactic event occur very early and condensed into a portion of the episode which was the incompatible ideals of Vince and the thieves. I thought that a great big argument/showdown was going to happen and cause a rift between them but I was glad to see that it was just kind of foreshadowing something that even the characters know is going to happen at some time in the future. Max and Vince at the end really felt like 'Well, that'll be an interesting day' to me and I liked that.

I thought some interesting things were well placed such as The Cape's cape (haha :P) not working due to the high velocity wind on the roof of the train and the fact that everyone just laughed when Scales outed Fleming. I thought that would happen but I was a bit worried they might believe the horrible thug that's been terrorizing the carriage all night and was glad to see they didn't. Speaking of Scales, interesting little bit of backstory there and isn't he badass, opening a cage with his head?

I thought Fleming looked ridiculous in his cowboy outfit (and by ridiculous I mean awesome, intentional of course) I'm not entirely sure why either Scales, Fleming or The Cape didn't end up dead though. When Scales and Fleming were out there on either side of the train declaring war on eachother, what was each one's motivation for not simply shooting the other? (especially hot head Scales) Nobody was there to see. I suppose The Cape left Fleming alive when dangling him from the train because if he is killed he won't ever be able to out him as Chess and clear his name but Chess doesn't really have a reason not to kill him. I know it's all a game to him but you still think he'd take the opportunity 'oh no he fell off the train! How awful'.

I thought Portman dressed as The Cape was hilarious (and their little discussion) and I liked the way he was like 'phuck yoo!' when told to go and hide instead of being the typical 'hide until the hero deals with everything' kinda guy.

I thought Orwell's interaction with Chess was a bit underplayed (assuming the 'Orwell is Chess' daughter' theory), though I guess it's building up for something good in that case. Maybe it's actually GOOD writing that the (probable) revelation that she is his daughter happened so early because I could feel the tension as Fleming entered the room and Orwell was hiding in plain sight. I'm finding these little reversals on what seems obvious to be quite interesting and it's keeping me intrigued.

So, that's what I think :P

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Monday, January 24, 2011 5:39 PM

PHOENIXROSE

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.

I think it suffers from severe Summer deprivation. I haven't even watched all the episodes, so perhaps there was a whole bunch that I was just unlucky enough to miss, but I've seen maybe three scenes with Summer.

It's really not doing it for me. Made me laugh a couple times. It could be engaging. But so far, kinda meh.

I do not need the written code of a spiritual belief to act like a decent human being.

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Monday, January 24, 2011 7:09 PM

Fair enough, I wonder just how many people are watching purely for Summer, or at least mostly for her. There seem to be quite a few.

I guess it's 'cause it's meant to be about Vince and Orwell is the sidekick at this point. Maybe something awful will happen to Vince and Orwell will take up the cape? That'd work.

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Monday, January 24, 2011 8:25 PM

PHOENIXROSE

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.

That, to be quite honest, would be awesome. I'm certainly not going to bank on it, though.

Personally, I wouldn't have tuned in if I hadn't heard about Summer being on it. It was the same way with Sarah Connor Chronicles, which had a similar problem with Summer deprivation. I know there are fans of the show here (who should probably look away now) but SCC had far too little Summer and far too much of random douchebags I cared nothing about. I gave up on the show after watching two-ish episodes. So far The Cape has a nearly identical problem. I like the woman, The Cape's wife, she has some spark, but she's gotten about as much screen time as Orwell, which makes it difficult to really engage with either of them. The carnie leader had a few moments, I sort of liked him after the first episode. I basically could not care less about anyone else.

It would be wonderful and unpredictable to see Orwell pick up the cape. Not only a female superhero who might be interesting, but one played by Summer. I would be down with that. I just don't see that amount of creativity so far, though.

I do not need the written code of a spiritual belief to act like a decent human being.

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Sunday, January 30, 2011 1:15 PM

Oooo, Summer would sell that and then some. I vote for that to happen. Summer as superhero - the emotional depth would be so much better with Summer as the lead.

Of course, we would need a good script.

SGG

Tawabawho?

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Sunday, January 30, 2011 8:45 PM

You know what, I suggested it without being entirely serious but the more I think about it, the more Summer would totally make that role awesome. I agree that the emotional depth would be better, especially going with the 'Chess' daughter' assumption that there'd be the showdown there and she'd just plain sell it better.

I too thought that the Cape's wife was pretty neat, loved the way she demanded her way into a job. Trip is kinda getting on my nerves though, I didn't get what people were complaining about in the first two episodes but seriously.

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Monday, January 31, 2011 4:50 AM

ZEEK

What? How could Summer being the Cape be better emotionally? The whole emotional point is this dude who is separated from his family trying to set things right. That should be emotional. Granted they aren't pulling it off, but there's no reason to think they'd do a better job with a father vs daughter thing.

The last episode was a little better, but it's still not a very good show. It's flirting with getting deleted from my record list at this point.

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Monday, January 31, 2011 5:06 AM

Well I can't speak for everyone but I basically just meant that Summer could maybe sell it a bit better and the whole prospect is pretty interesting but back in reality land I'm still liking what's going on so far.

I think that the overall story of Vince trying to get back to his family is actually a pretty good one, let's just hope they do a better job of dragging us in and making us care. I think that's possible now that things have slowed down a bit.

I think they've introduced the lawyer guy 'replacing' Vince situation a little fast though I think if they develop that right it could definitely add some emotion in there, especially with situations like Vince having to watch from the sidelines.

The more I think about it though, the more I think Vince should have just taken those tickets and gotten the hell out of there. He's a cop and a soldier who's trying to save the city but surely his wife and kid are above that...then I guess we'd have a three episode show :P

So what is it that you don't like about the show Zeek? Anything specific or is it just not grabbing your attention?

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Monday, January 31, 2011 5:33 AM

ZEEK

It's not grabbing my attention and I pretty much have problems with every character. I just don't feel any of them are acting realistically.

Vince - I can't buy any reason that he would hide from his family. How could he sit there and put them through all that grief even if it is somehow to protect them. If someone figures out his identity then they'll be targeted whether they know he's alive or not. It's just silly.

Circus Guy - he was a hair's breath away from just killing Vince in the pilot. Then he completely does a 180 because Vince gives him some inside info. All of a sudden he's helping Vince become a super hero when he himself is a criminal. Which is another point against Vince. If he's so just then how is he just turning a blind eye to all the robberies?

Chess - he's evil for the sake of being evil. He seems to have no goal other than ruling over the entire city. Apparently he's also searching for his lost daughter as well. I don't see any reason why taking over the city would play into that.

Vince's old partner - this guy was apparently one of the police officers Vince trusted. Then it turns out he completely sold out and not just to the point of doing a few jobs for Chess. Nope he's his right hand man and pure evil. I don't really buy that he was able to hide that side of himself from Vince during their whole friendship.

Vince's wife - she seems to be moving on reallllllly quickly if she's got any feelings for her boss already. In the real world I'd expect her to be completely and utterly focused on her son. She just lost her husband and I'd think she'd block everyone else out while she focuses on keeping her son safe so she doesn't lose her entire family. I can kinda let that part go because it doesn't make for fun TV, but at the very least she shouldn't be moving on romantically at all.

I guess overall I just can't see how long they can keep the status quo going. I just can't imagine like 4 seasons later we can still have the show in any state like it's in now. Could Vince really keep his secret from his family that long? Is Chess going to just be a constant villain with zero confrontation and resolution for the entire series? Heck would we even want that? Chess isn't very interesting when he's new. Can you imagine how boring he'll be when it's all been done before?

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Monday, January 31, 2011 4:40 PM

Yeah okay, all fair points but I think one reason why I'm liking this show and others aren't is that I am willing to suspend my disbelief pretty darn far in return for entertainment, all of the issues created by these unrealistic reactions create interesting situations and I like that.

Absolutely agree that Vince should be able to reveal his identity to his family. Heck if he doesn't already know then Trip is just really slow but I guess Vince is really thinking like a soldier/cop and viewing it all as life and death. It kinda ups the stakes I figure and maybe he's just too ashamed and thinks even his family won't believe him without proving his innocence first? As loving as his family seems to be, there could always be that tiny shadow of doubt if he showed up at their front door.

Yes their initial teaming up seemed a little odd but I guess Max (Circus guy) saw something in Vince that made him want to keep him around for one reason or another. He's similar to his old 'apprentice' in many ways. I think that the handing over of information maybe proved in some way that he wasn't just 'some cop'.
Also, Vince isn't just turning a blind eye to their robberies. In Scales on a Train the group is clearly trying to hide their plans for the robbery from Vince and their discussion at the end definitely hints at rising issues in that regard. Afterall, Vince is trying to stomp out crime and they ARE criminals so that's going to come crashing down at some point. I think Max might have some sort of hidden motivation for helping him.

Chess is evil for the sake of being evil. Yeah it does seem that way, unless his intentions haven't been fully revealed, it's only been four episodes. It kinda works for me to be honest, a bored rich guy who just feels like being an evil psycho is pretty scary even if he does lack depth. Though in my opinion the search for his daughter already added SOME depth.

I found Vince's traitorous partner a bit weird too, how the hell did Vince fall for that. Though (and this is based solely on the scene where Chess is commenting on the picture of his family) it seems maybe he isn't all evil and he's being forced to do things against his will. What does he have to gain by still pretending to be friends with Trip and Vince's wife? Who does indeed seem to be moving on pretty quickly in that department. Initially I liked the idea that she was taking charge, getting herself a job and moving on which seemed to be setting up for a 'being strong now and breaking down later' type of deal but the whole thing with the boss made me just think 'whoa! how long has Vince been dead?' especially since they seemed really close.

Yeah, I agree with you on maintaining the status quo. Especially in regards to pacing, they're revealing so much stuff so quickly that I just can't help but think they'll run out of things to reveal by episode ten or something. Though I am not really an avid comic book reader, it does seem like that's pretty much what comics are about. One of the villains shows up to do something evil, hero stops 'em and there's some character related stuff on the side. That looks like what it's setting up to be though I guess we'll have to wait and see. So far several of my assumptions have been debunked so maybe they will continue to develop.

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Friday, February 4, 2011 11:58 PM

Zeek, u make some really good points. The characters have been purely developed. Like I said earlier, no back story.

What made his partner turn on him? Does Chess have something on him?, or did he threaten to kill him? There's no hint of that, plus the actor has not convinced me that he's crooked.

Yeah, Max did kinda do a quick about-face. I give u that one too.

This week's episode was actually a bit above average, but it did try to develop a back story regarding Dice's dad. But unfortunately the show has no charisma and more holes than Swiss cheese.
Oh well, Summer will be free to pursue other things.

SGG

Tawabawho?

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Tuesday, February 8, 2011 1:34 AM

Really? In my opinion (and admittedly it is the very small minority) the only thing the show has IS charisma and that's why I'm still watching.

It does have more holes than swiss cheese, it is camp and silly and cheesy but I'm still watching and enjoying it. That said though, I am starting to get a little less interested. It seems with each little mistake they make I get closer to not watching but I'm still pretty excited to tune in every week at the moment.

As I said in my last post, there IS an indication that Chess has something on Marty. He's holding a picture of his family in episode 1 or 2 making all the typical 'what a nice family' comments in a grim voice that practically screams 'obey me or they die'.

As I've also said, it seems that many of my gripes about the show keep getting filled in by subsequent episodes which I find interesting. For instance, the 'Max doing an about face' thing seems pretty weird until you see the end of Dice where it's implied that he has some sort of mystical calendar telling him that the next 'cape' is supposed to arrive that day. Put that together with 'when you were Chess you were interesting, now you're boring' kinda seems to me like he was willing to trust in the map a bit but not just some lame cop, then his resolve in handing over the card kinda put him back into the 'possible cape' territory. I know I'm using a whole lot of imagination there but it fits in my head, maybe that's why I'm one of the few that's interested :P

Anyway, the show has been cut from 13 episodes in this first season to 10, if that isn't an almost sure sign of imminent cancellation then I'm not sure what is. Not like I wasn't expecting this, I'll not be crying if this goes off air but I will definitely be disappointed, at least NBC seems to have done what they can and given it a shot but I really hope ratings pick up as unlikely as it is.

I found the last two episodes interesting, episode five more than episode six. I thought Dice was really cool with the whole savant thing but again it seemed a little rushed, the invention and unveiling of the T.R.A.C.E. machine could have been an entire story arc on it's own or at least run into a few episodes. I like stories with direct continuation instead of entire stories condensed down. Not to mention Vince learning ANOTHER master skill that's supposed to take years in record time (at least he screws up). Were Vince and Orwell both in Dice's blind spot? How convenient, that makes zero sense, someone who sees the world as numbers wouldn't just have some blank spot, let alone two and isn't Vince just a regular guy with a cape?

Episode six was also pretty interesting but I didn't think it was as good as the few before it. I thought Trip's geeky little buddy was pretty funny, if they're hangin' out then I won't feel like turning the TV off whenever Trip comes on screen. I thought the cape being bulletproof was a bit over the top, I hope that only worked cause it was retracted and all bunched up, if the whole thing is bulletproof then what the hell? I thought Goggles and Hicks were alright as villains thought they sure 'knew' their prey pretty quick, shoot a tracer on him, figure out his heartbeat and identity and we know him down to his very soul, time for the bumble bee!

Ah well, I'm in a bit of a critical mood at the moment so I'm pointing out inconsistencies and stuff but I'm still liking it over all. I don't think I've fallen into that stage where everything has to be realistic and compared to something else for me to enjoy it as simple entertainment.

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Monday, August 22, 2011 2:03 AM

DJD

Rather late to the party..... to sumarise, watching it because Summer's in it. I'm finding it a struggle to be honest. Nothing grabs me about the show and I wouldn't waste my time on it if not for Summer's presence. Her weakest show to date by some distance for me.

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Saturday, August 27, 2011 10:53 PM