The Last Jedi Discussion by SHINYGOODGUY

There is much to love in this movie, but, at the same time, much to hate and still more to say WTF?

I did not like the Luke storyline. It felt awkward and completely wrong. Luke looking to kill his nephew? Where's that get fun? It seemed out of character for him. Now I know why Hamill disagreed with Johnson. I could see Luke not wanting to train any other Jedis, but looking to kill....it's just not in his nature. That could have been handled differently. The self doubt was good, but he did not behave like a Jedi.

General Hux - the actor was way over the top and acted like a buffoon. I was not impressed. Rose acted too much like a fan girl, and the love interest part was forced somewhat. She was just okay. Boyega as Finn, perfect yet again, but he was somewhat wasted, as was Gwendoline Christie as Captain Phasma. An actress of her talents needs to have more to do than pose in a costume. Oscar Isaac as Poe was excellent as well.

More to come later............

SGG

Quote:
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
This discussion thread is for those who have seen The Last Jedi and want to comment on the movie.

SPOILERS .................

Please only proceed if you have seen it.

Spoilers!!!!!!!!

SGG

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Sunday, December 24, 2017 5:08 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
There is much to love in this movie, but, at the same time, much to hate and still more to say WTF?

I did not like the Luke storyline. It felt awkward and completely wrong. Luke looking to kill his nephew? Where's that get fun? It seemed out of character for him. Now I know why Hamill disagreed with Johnson. I could see Luke not wanting to train any other Jedis, but looking to kill....it's just not in his nature. That could have been handled differently. The self doubt was good, but he did not behave like a Jedi.

General Hux - the actor was way over the top and acted like a buffoon. I was not impressed. Rose acted too much like a fan girl, and the love interest part was forced somewhat. She was just okay. Boyega as Finn, perfect yet again, but he was somewhat wasted, as was Gwendoline Christie as Captain Phasma. An actress of her talents needs to have more to do than pose in a costume. Oscar Isaac as Poe was excellent as well.

More to come later............
It
SGG

I agree with Hamill's disagreement with every aspect of Luke in TLJ. His reluctance to train other Jedi was as already known, right? But it could have had a reasonable basis, instead of this petulant script.
Poe. I can't tell if the portrayal was a caricature, or if the role was written that way. Seemed they tried to copy the impertinence of Han Solo, but Solo was not military, not involved in The Rebellion, but was clever. I acknowledge I was not enamored of Poe in TFA, but he was OK - this time he was mostly annoying. I cannot think of one Poe sequence which was written well here.
Finn? Walking around in a sloshy squirting contraption? Show me one thing in Episodes I - VI which compares. That belongs in a lame version of Spaceballs, or a poor imitation of Ghostbusters. Where does this derivative crap come from, and how does it get into a Star Wars film, surviving the Cutting Room? And they had an extra 40 minutes of this dreck that was trimmed from the Director's Cut? I'd have nightmares imagining what that could have been.

I can hope that Rose's hot sister Paige gets more roles.
Benicio's role? Ugh.
Why does a Porg scream "product placement" to me? I don't recall Coke cans in A New Hope.

Aside, I just noticed Daisy has many pics online where she looks like Keira Knightley, yet she's not allowed to look that regal in the film.

I found Rose to be charming. By the time she saves Finn, I had about forgot the The Force of Good growing on what we Love, rather than our anger feeding the Darkside. But she reminded us.
I didn't really think that a fangirl would so readily throw her idol into prison.

The jaunt to the casino? Gimme a break.

Bombers? Moving in a group to make an easy target? There are reasons ordinance-heavy craft move slower and are less agile in atmo - none of which applies in space. Same with maneuvering/attacking in space. This was incredibly insipid. How did they achieve interstellar space flight and remain morons? Only in the minds of insipid scriptwriters. No Heinleins in that crowd.

What else have you seen Gwendolyn Christie in?

Although Smoke seems an excursion of CGI experimentation, I'm not sold on the character. Fortunately I won't be bothered further.

We eventually learned of the reasoning behind Luke's great connection to The Force. Although less so for Anakin in Episode I. But is there a story for Rey? No indication she was immaculately conceived like Anakin.

In retroflection I recall that character development of Beebee droid seemed drawn out in TFA, but that seems utterly extravagant compared to the motion-stop coherence of TLJ.

I'm beginning to wonder if the entirety was a spoof of Star Wars.
I must believe the Box Office is merely based upon the entirety of the franchise, and the hope coming from TFA, the potential that TLJ could have been. How did this get decent reviews from the critic sites? What children reside there?

Perhaps the biggest mistake? The Majesty of the original score, theme music being used so sparingly. Such that I actually missed it, logged off at a for it while viewing.

Episodes I - VI were about "The Redemption of Anakin Skywalker" - so far this story arc is Kill Off Han, Kill Off Luke, Kill Off Leia...

I am really glad Rogue One restored my Faith in The Force before I saw TLJ. I haven't bought R1 yet, I think I will now.

I'm beginning to dread what Disney might do to Firefly.

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Sunday, December 24, 2017 6:26 AM

I have an idea.
Let's recount the scenes from The Last Jedi which were worthwhile.

It should be a short list, compared to the others.

These would be scenes which, without regard to the story arc, would fit in, mesh with what we saw in Episodes IV - VI. If your assertion is challenged, be prepared to offer examples.

Off the top of my head:
General/Admiral Holdo saves the day.
Rose saves Finn.
Luke at the Cave Showdown, vs. Kylo.
Rey opening the backdoor of the Cave.
Paige Tico releasing the ordinance.
Beebee droid spewing coins as an offensive weapon.
Gen Hux thinking the loss of Supreme Ruler means he is in charge, then being reminded where the Power resides - perhaps the best scene for this character.
Rose zapping Finn, trying to use an escape pod.
Replaying the R2D2 Hologram message from Princess Leia to Obi-wan.
Luke on Millennium Falcon, and with Chewbacca.
Rose figuring out how the active crack ng works, when nobody else bothers.
Millennium Falcon flying shots.

Who else can think of others?

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Wednesday, December 27, 2017 5:09 AM

Some liked the humor, while others thought it fell flat. I agree on both counts; some of the humor was funny, and yet other scenes fell flat.

The opening sequence, the battle at the very begining it was funny and fitting for the character Poe. Did it belong in a Star Wars movie. There were those that didn't like it. I liked it.

But the "milking" scene I could have done without.

Loved the "Kamikaze" mission by Holdo.

The Paige Tico scene was well done.

Luke in the Falcon with Chewie

R2 D2 showing Luke the Leia "Obi Wan" hologram (I almost cried)

Luke kissing Leia on the forehead, awesome scene

Luke facing the First Order/Kylo Ren Cave Showdown

Luke and Chewie "where's Han" scene

Luke and Yoda

Rey and Kylo facing the Pretorian Guards on Snoke's ship

Some of the editing was great, and some not so much. Somewhat uneven, as I stated before.

SGG

Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
I have an idea.
Let's recount the scenes from The Last Jedi which were worthwhile.

It should be a short list, compared to the others.

These would be scenes which, without regard to the story arc, would fit in, mesh with what we saw in Episodes IV - VI. If your assertion is challenged, be prepared to offer examples.

Off the top of my head:
General/Admiral Holdo saves the day.
Rose saves Finn.
Luke at the Cave Showdown, vs. Kylo.
Rey opening the backdoor of the Cave.
Paige Tico releasing the ordinance.
Beebee droid spewing coins as an offensive weapon.
Gen Hux thinking the loss of Supreme Ruler means he is in charge, then being reminded where the Power resides - perhaps the best scene for this character.
Rose zapping Finn, trying to use an escape pod.
Replaying the R2D2 Hologram message from Princess Leia to Obi-wan.
Luke on Millennium Falcon, and with Chewbacca.
Rose figuring out how the active crack ng works, when nobody else bothers.
Millennium Falcon flying shots.

Who else can think of others?

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Wednesday, December 27, 2017 12:33 PM

I just saw a 30 second clip of TLJ with droid Beebee and Imperial black droid, and some storm troopers. Oh, wait, it's actually a commercial for Verizon.
Why am I not so surprised the commercial had more action than the film?

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Wednesday, December 27, 2017 2:04 PM

ANONYMOUSE

The best WTF?! moment has to be Rey handing Luke his lightsabre - only to see him toss it away!

I loved BB-8 in TFA and even more in TLJ - such personality! He's every bit as clever and handy as Artoo ever was, a worthy successor.

But I am not convinced Ren told Rey the truth about her parents; I think at least one had to be a Force-sensitive. Would the idea that she's Luke's daughter be too obvious?

How the hell did Ren conceal his intent of betraying his master from Snoke? That was straight out of the book of the Sith - hard to believe Snoke could be taken down so easily. Didn't see that coming...nor did Snoke, apparently...!

And I still want to know who Snoke was, and why Darth Sidious never sensed him - and how did Maz acquire Luke's lightsabre?!

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Thursday, December 28, 2017 3:35 AM

Quote:
The best WTF?! moment has to be Rey handing Luke his lightsabre - only to see him toss it away!

I agree, it was bizarre; unless Disney plans to do away with the Jedi and lightsabres, that was one of the more ridiculous moments in the film - bar none! Luke Skywalker and lightsabres go together like ham and eggs. That could have been handled differently: 1) To show Luke's reluctance to wield a lightsabre ever again, he could have went quietly to his chambers and locked it away.

or

2) Hand it back to her and swear off of lightsabres. Well, you get my meaning. That lightsabre is too important to just toss aside. Too much rich history and power in that lightsabre. I thought, for a moment, that Luke was testing her, you know like a Jedi mind trick.

I'll tell you one good reason why it didn't work; it was 2 years in between takes. First, it was out of character for Luke. And two, for that "gag" to work it would have made more sense to do it in one take.

"She climbs the mountain, hands him the lightsabre; he tosses it over his shoulders" ...and scene. I wouldn't write it that way, but I can't understand why Johnson would write such a scene. Perhaps answers will come in Episode 9. I know, I'm stretching it; but I don't understand it.

Quote:
I loved BB-8 in TFA and even more in TLJ - such personality! He's every bit as clever and handy as Artoo ever was, a worthy successor.

Agreed. Lots of personality.

Quote:
But I am not convinced Ren told Rey the truth about her parents; I think at least one had to be a Force-sensitive. Would the idea that she's Luke's daughter be too obvious?

I had the same feeling as I was watching it unfold. Kylo was using the Sith mind trick trying to seduce Rey to come over to the dark side. But she was having none of it. That's why I get the feeling she may have some Skywalker blood in her, because she's a "powerful Jedi" and was dead sure of herself that she would not turn. Just like Luke in 4,5 & 6.

But here's a theory I heard on the internet: that Rey and, quite possibly, others are born being force sensitive and only of need of training. Remember the scene in the cave when Rey saw a reflection of herself. Much like Luke in the tree in TESB, Episode 5. Well, it seems that Disney wants to move away from our old heroes and present new ones; to continue the franchise.

SGG

Quote:
Originally posted by Anonymouse:
The best WTF?! moment has to be Rey handing Luke his lightsabre - only to see him toss it away!

I loved BB-8 in TFA and even more in TLJ - such personality! He's every bit as clever and handy as Artoo ever was, a worthy successor.

But I am not convinced Ren told Rey the truth about her parents; I think at least one had to be a Force-sensitive. Would the idea that she's Luke's daughter be too obvious?

How the hell did Ren conceal his intent of betraying his master from Snoke? That was straight out of the book of the Sith - hard to believe Snoke could be taken down so easily. Didn't see that coming...nor did Snoke, apparently...!

And I still want to know who Snoke was, and why Darth Sidious never sensed him - and how did Maz acquire Luke's lightsabre?!

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Thursday, December 28, 2017 9:57 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
I have an idea.
Let's recount the scenes from The Last Jedi which were worthwhile.

It should be a short list, compared to the others.

These would be scenes which, without regard to the story arc, would fit in, mesh with what we saw in Episodes IV - VI. If your assertion is challenged, be prepared to offer examples.

Off the top of my head:
General/Admiral Holdo saves the day.
Rose saves Finn.
Luke at the Cave Showdown, vs. Kylo.
Rey opening the backdoor of the Cave.
Paige Tico releasing the ordinance.
Beebee droid spewing coins as an offensive weapon.
Gen Hux thinking the loss of Supreme Ruler means he is in charge, then being reminded where the Power resides - perhaps the best scene for this character.
Rose zapping Finn, trying to use an escape pod.
Replaying the R2D2 Hologram message from Princess Leia to Obi-wan.
Luke on Millennium Falcon, and with Chewbacca.
Rose figuring out how the active crack ng works, when nobody else bothers.
Millennium Falcon flying shots.

Who else can think of others?

Yes, another worthwhile scene is Rey climbing up and down an Island mountain to put a light saber in her hand. For comedy! Imagine that! A Jedi refusing to use The Force to draw a light saber to them! IIRC, she had as already drawn this one during her duel with Kylo, from some distance, in TFA. Perhaps Luke was using his Mastery of The Force to hold the lightsaber down to that spot, just to force Rey to climb all about to get to it.
These Jedi kids are a gag-a-minute, I tell ya.

The toss itself seems flippant, petulant, disrespectful of The Force. Not qualities I had associated with Jedi.

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Friday, December 29, 2017 4:37 AM

Quote:
The toss itself seems flippant, petulant, disrespectful of The Force. Not qualities I had associated with Jedi.

Totally out of character for a Jedi, and for Luke. Many have said that it was a "fuck you" to JJ Abrams, but, more importantly, a "fuck you" to the fan base. This is a part of the Jedi lore, and those millions of fans who cosplay and the kids who ask mommy and daddy "Can I please have a lightsaber like Luke Skywalker."

To me it was a total slap in the face as a fan, so I could imagine those who truly delve into the movie magic of becoming a Jedi in real life. People take their Star Wars seriously.

Like it or not, Mark Hamill and the original Star Wars cast, are like gods to these people. Disney shouldn't fuck with the fan base, billions are at stake. Skywalker is not just an iconic hero in cinema history. To the millions of fans he is REAL!

SGG

Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
I have an idea.
Let's recount the scenes from The Last Jedi which were worthwhile.

It should be a short list, compared to the others.

These would be scenes which, without regard to the story arc, would fit in, mesh with what we saw in Episodes IV - VI. If your assertion is challenged, be prepared to offer examples.

Off the top of my head:
General/Admiral Holdo saves the day.
Rose saves Finn.
Luke at the Cave Showdown, vs. Kylo.
Rey opening the backdoor of the Cave.
Paige Tico releasing the ordinance.
Beebee droid spewing coins as an offensive weapon.
Gen Hux thinking the loss of Supreme Ruler means he is in charge, then being reminded where the Power resides - perhaps the best scene for this character.
Rose zapping Finn, trying to use an escape pod.
Replaying the R2D2 Hologram message from Princess Leia to Obi-wan.
Luke on Millennium Falcon, and with Chewbacca.
Rose figuring out how the active crack ng works, when nobody else bothers.
Millennium Falcon flying shots.

Who else can think of others?
Yes, another worthwhile scene is Rey climbing up and down an Island mountain to put a light saber in her hand. For comedy! Imagine that! A Jedi refusing to use The Force to draw a light saber to them! IIRC, she had as already drawn this one during her duel with Kylo, from some distance. Perhaps Luke was using his Mastery of The Force to hold the lightsaber down to that spot, just to force Rey to climb all about to get to it.
These Jedi kids are a gag-a-minute, I tell ya.

The toss itself seems flippant, petulant, disrespectful of The Force. Not qualities I had associated with Jedi.

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Friday, December 29, 2017 9:44 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
I have an idea.
Let's recount the scenes from The Last Jedi which were worthwhile.

It should be a short list, compared to the others.

These would be scenes which, without regard to the story arc, would fit in, mesh with what we saw in Episodes IV - VI. If your assertion is challenged, be prepared to offer examples.

Off the top of my head:
General/Admiral Holdo saves the day.
Rose saves Finn.
Luke at the Cave Showdown, vs. Kylo.
Rey opening the backdoor of the Cave.
Paige Tico releasing the ordinance.
Beebee droid spewing coins as an offensive weapon.
Gen Hux thinking the loss of Supreme Ruler means he is in charge, then being reminded where the Power resides - perhaps the best scene for this character.
Rose zapping Finn, trying to use an escape pod.
Replaying the R2D2 Hologram message from Princess Leia to Obi-wan.
Luke on Millennium Falcon, and with Chewbacca.
Rose figuring out how the active crack ng works, when nobody else bothers.
Millennium Falcon flying shots.

Who else can think of others?
Yes, another worthwhile scene is Rey climbing up and down an Island mountain to put a light saber in her hand. For comedy! Imagine that! A Jedi refusing to use The Force to draw a light saber to them! IIRC, she had as already drawn this one during her duel with Kylo, from some distance. Perhaps Luke was using his Mastery of The Force to hold the lightsaber down to that spot, just to force Rey to climb all about to get to it.
These Jedi kids are a gag-a-minute, I tell ya.

The toss itself seems flippant, petulant, disrespectful of The Force. Not qualities I had associated with Jedi.
Quote:
The toss itself seems flippant, petulant, disrespectful of The Force. Not qualities I had associated with Jedi.
Totally out of character for a Jedi, and for Luke. Many have said that it was a "fuck you" to JJ Abrams, but, more importantly, a "fuck you" to the fan base. This is a part of the Jedi lore, and those millions of fans who cosplay and the kids who ask mommy and daddy "Can I please have a lightsaber like Luke Skywalker."

To me it was a total slap in the face as a fan, so I could imagine those who truly delve into the movie magic of becoming a Jedi in real life. People take their Star Wars seriously.

Like it or not, Mark Hamill and the original Star Wars cast, are like gods to these people. Disney shouldn't fuck with the fan base, billions are at stake. Skywalker is not just an iconic hero in cinema history. To the millions of fans he is REAL!

SGG

The newest book release by Lee Child in the Jack Reacher series is Midnight Line. Reacher finds a Class Ring from West Point, which was the First University in America, and started the Class Ring tradition. Reacher considers it unlikely that after doing all to accomplish what that Ring signifies, a fellow Point Alumni would readily part with it, and pursuit g the owner starts a new book.

For all that Luke had to do to Master The Force, Master the lightsaber, focus and stay on the side of Light, resist the Dark Side, the lightsaber must have represented a significant portion of his life. For him to truly discard it, he must be disassociated with Mastery, The Force, and Jedi mindset.

I have no idea if I will ever view TLJ again, or bother watching Episode IX (or Disney Episode 3). But I do want to watch Rogue One a few more times.

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Friday, December 29, 2017 11:30 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
I have an idea.
Let's recount the scenes from The Last Jedi which were worthwhile.

It should be a short list, compared to the others.

These would be scenes which, without regard to the story arc, would fit in, mesh with what we saw in Episodes IV - VI. GIf your assertion is challenged, be prepared to offer examples.

Off the top of my head:
General/Admiral Holdo saves the day.
Rose saves Finn.
Luke at the Cave Showdown, vs. Kylo.
Rey opening the backdoor of the Cave.
Paige Tico releasing the ordinance.
Beebee droid spewing coins as an offensive weapon.
Gen Hux thinking the loss of Supreme Ruler means he is in charge, then being reminded where the Power resides - perhaps the best scene for this character.
Rose zapping Finn, trying to use an escape pod.
Replaying the R2D2 Hologram message from Princess Leia to Obi-wan.
Luke on Millennium Falcon, and with Chewbacca.
Rose figuring out how the active crack ng works, when nobody else bothers.
Millennium Falcon flying shots.

Who else can think of others?
Yes, another worthwhile scene is Rey climbing up and down an Island mountain to put a light saber in her hand. For comedy! Imagine that! A Jedi refusing to use The Force to draw a light saber to them! IIRC, she had as already drawn this one during her duel with Kylo, from some distance, in TFA. Perhaps Luke was using his Mastery of The Force to hold the lightsaber down to that spot, just to force Rey to climb all about to get to it.
These Jedi kids are a gag-a-minute, I tell ya.

The toss itself seems flippant, petulant, disrespectful of The Force. Not qualities I had associated with Jedi.

Quote:
The toss itself seems flippant, petulant, disrespectful of The Force. Not qualities I had associated with Jedi.
Totally out of character for a Jedi, and for Luke. Many have said that it was a "fuck you" to JJ Abrams, but, more importantly, a "fuck you" to the fan base. This is a part of the Jedi lore, and those millions of fans who cosplay and the kids who ask mommy and daddy "Can I please have a lightsaber like Luke Skywalker."

To me it was a total slap in the face as a fan, so I could imagine those who truly delve into the movie magic of becoming a Jedi in real life. People take their Star Wars seriously.

Like it or not, Mark Hamill and the original Star Wars cast, are like gods to these people. Disney shouldn't fuck with the fan base, billions are at stake. Skywalker is not just an iconic hero in cinema history. To the millions of fans he is REAL!

SGG

OK. I got it now. I figured it out. Here is why they are saying throw away everything you know, love, hold dear about Star Wars, because this is the new Surreality of Disney Star Wars.
The old Bob Newhart Show was ending a successful run years ago. The final episode in essence declared that the entire series was just a dream, and he woke up next to Suzanne Pleshette as his character from his first show.
TLJ, being a completely derivative work without any original ideas, concepts, or story arc, is paying homage to Bob Newhart. That's it!

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Tuesday, January 2, 2018 11:10 AM

It took me a while to decide why I had such a problem with The Last Jedi. I think it's mostly because it seemed like they were playing with someone else's toys and they were breaking them with disregard.

I don't think the prequels did any favors to continuity in Star Wars, but I had hoped that Disney would not make a similar mistake. Instead they threw world building out the window with this movie. Just a handful of things that don't fit and will be problematic in the future: what was Poe stalling for in his x-wing? Something was charging up (his engines?) but this is unlike anything we've ever seen in any ship (including x-wings) in the Star Wars universe. What was with the shields in this movie? That is not how shields have ever been portrayed before in Star Wars. Did technology change in the days between The Force Awakens and this movie? Speaking of which what was with the trajectory of laser fire from the star destoryers? Do lasers have weight? Is there gravity in space now? Again that is a "cool special effect" but it doesn't make sense in world. Another cool moment was the hyper space suicide attack. However, if that is such a destructive maneuver why wouldn't the rebels use this technique almost constantly? Heck they could have destroyed both Deathstars with the loss of only a few capital ships. Ugh I need to stop there.

It just seems like they didn't care about the Star Wars universe and they were trying to just do whatever they thought would look cool. Which is also the issue with Luke. They wanted to do something unexpected and I guess therefore "cool" with his character. However, they didn't do that in a way that was true to his character. Luke was full of hope and an eternal optimist. There's no way he'd instinctively think to kill his nephew or any child for that matter. That's just not who he is. Sure it's been 30+ years and people change, but if Luke changed that extensively then we're going to need some backstory to explain it. Not just "I sensed darkness". Please. Darth Vader was complicit in the destruction of an entire planet and Luke held out hope that he could be redeemed.

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Tuesday, January 2, 2018 12:18 PM

MOOSE

Quote:
It took me a while to decide why I had such a problem with The Last Jedi. I think it's mostly because it seemed like they were playing with someone else's toys and they were breaking them with disregard.

That is the perfect way of saying it.

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Wednesday, January 3, 2018 9:18 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Moose:
Quote:
It took me a while to decide why I had such a problem with The Last Jedi. I think it's mostly because it seemed like they were playing with someone else's toys and they were breaking them with disregard.

That is the perfect way of saying it.

Agreed.

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Thursday, January 11, 2018 11:29 AM

Brutal and hilarious comedic take on The Last Jedi pitch.

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Friday, January 12, 2018 12:37 PM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

The Last Jedi is a tragedy
www.vox.com/culture/2018/1/12/16834684/the-last-jedi-lost-its-nerve

Director Rian Johnson didn’t go far enough. He feints and flirts with deeper, darker themes, but loses his nerve before the tone and trajectory of the saga are seriously threatened.

Johnson has a great sense of style and visual flair, so it’s easy to get caught up in the adventure. But a dispassionate examination of events as they unfold in the film reveals that, at its heart, The Last Jedi is a bleak and unremitting tragedy. Johnson just never quite musters the courage to let the audience feel it.

Here are just a few of the depressing developments that befall General Leia’s Resistance:

1) Poe defies a direct order and gets the entire Resistance bombing fleet, half its fighter pilots, and the bulk of its military leadership wiped out. (We’ll talk more about Poe later. That f’ing guy.)

2) Finn and Rose rush off to disable the First Order tracker but fail because they are jailed for a parking violation, though they did free those horse things.

3) The last-ditch plan to save the Resistance by launching transports to an abandoned base is leaked by Poe, the leak is heard by Finn and Rose’s criminal companion, who saves himself from execution alongside Finn and Rose by leaking to the First Order about the “cloaking” of the rebel transports, leading to hundreds of deaths among the remaining Rebels.

4) The Resistance’s desperate call for help is ignored across the galaxy and a handful of Rebels barely escape through Luke sacrificing his life. The End.

I mean, that is some awful, awful stuff. Like I said: a tragedy.

But ... does it feel like that?

Take the Finn-and-Rose casino storyline. Many people have criticized it for being a waste of time that had no effect on the larger plot. Technically, though, it had an enormous plot consequence: It tipped off the First Order to the existence of the transports and led to their wholesale destruction. It triggered the final blow that wiped out the Resistance. It was, in retrospect, a horrific and fateful miscalculation on every level.

It feels inessential, though, because it’s not played as a mistake or a tragedy. It’s played as a madcap romp. Even afterward, Finn and Rose do not seem particularly troubled that they played a direct role in the death of thousands of their fellow Rebels. The Director Johnson never slows down and lets it sink in.

Literally nothing the Rebels try, right up to the doomed ground attack on Crait, works. It all fails. Almost everyone is killed.

But there is little sense of consequence, no tears, no crippling grief for the failure. The events of the story only make sense as tragedy.

Admittedly, if Johnson had the audience feeling the tragedy then the movie’s box office haul would have suffered. Disney would have been unhappy. He probably would have joined Colin Trevorrow on the list of fired Star Wars directors.

Speaking of decisions and consequences, let’s talk about Poe. The guy is a 360-degree disaster — and more than that, a repudiation of one of the central archetypes of the Star Wars universe — precisely because he is impulsive, short-sighted, hot-headed, and possessed of a confidence that wildly outstrips his knowledge or judgment.

Again and again, women try to set him straight, but he ignores or defies them. And he is not alone. Luke, Kylo, Finn — at one point or another, every major male character disregards the pleas of his far more sensible female counterpart, to disastrous effect.

For a while, it seems that Johnson is determined to teach fanboys the scariest lesson of all: That they should listen to women. But again, he stops short.

Carl von Clausewitz argued in his famous On War that, in war, political objectives must always guide and transcend tactical or strategic objectives — and that field commanders are prone to neglecting this truth, driving for tactical advantage at any cost. That’s essentially what Poe does, by shooting at anything he doesn’t like. He can’t see past his next move. And so, between defying orders, mutinying, and leaking highly sensitive information, he almost single-handedly gets the entire Resistance wiped out.

He’s the devil-may-care Han Solo type, but more like the real-world version, i.e., a volatile f*ckup rather than a natural leader. (The women, Leia and Holdo, are the natural leaders, calm and focused.) But Johnson can’t quite bear to let Poe face the consequences. After he repeatedly threatens the entire Resistance effort, only to finally be knocked out and restrained, we see Holdo and Leia ... regarding Poe fondly? Discussing how much they like him?

Please.

The film even toys with letting go of the neat division of good and evil, light and dark, by threatening to complicate and blur the moral binary that typically governs not only Star Wars but mass-market action-adventure movies everywhere. But then . . . more at www.vox.com/culture/2018/1/12/16834684/the-last-jedi-lost-its-nerve

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Friday, January 12, 2018 12:51 PM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

Ousted 'Star Wars' director made Daisy Ridley cry when he told her what would happen to Rey

Bobby Moynihan said he witnessed a fascinating interaction between former "Episode IX" director Colin Trevorrow and Daisy Ridley, who plays Rey in the saga.

Ridley wanted to know from Trevorrow what happens to Rey in the final movie of the trilogy.

More at www.slashfilm.com/colin-trevorrow-star-wars-episode-9-pitch-daisy-ridl
ey/

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Friday, January 12, 2018 5:55 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by second:
The Last Jedi is a tragedy
www.vox.com/culture/2018/1/12/16834684/the-last-jedi-lost-its-nerve

Director Rian Johnson didn’t go far enough. He feints and flirts with deeper, darker themes, but loses his nerve before the tone and trajectory of the saga are seriously threatened.

Johnson has a great sense of style and visual flair, so it’s easy to get caught up in the adventure. But a dispassionate examination of events as they unfold in the film reveals that, at its heart, The Last Jedi is a bleak and unremitting tragedy. Johnson just never quite musters the courage to let the audience feel it.

Here are just a few of the depressing developments that befall General Leia’s Resistance:

1) Poe defies a direct order and gets the entire Resistance bombing fleet, half its fighter pilots, and the bulk of its military leadership wiped out. (We’ll talk more about Poe later. That f’ing guy.)

2) Finn and Rose rush off to disable the First Order tracker but fail because they are jailed for a parking violation, though they did free those horse things.

3) The last-ditch plan to save the Resistance by launching transports to an abandoned base is leaked by Poe, the leak is heard by Finn and Rose’s criminal companion, who saves himself from execution alongside Finn and Rose by leaking to the First Order about the “cloaking” of the rebel transports, leading to hundreds of deaths among the remaining Rebels.

4) The Resistance’s desperate call for help is ignored across the galaxy and a handful of Rebels barely escape through Luke sacrificing his life. The End.

I mean, that is some awful, awful stuff. Like I said: a tragedy.

But ... does it feel like that?

Take the Finn-and-Rose casino storyline. Many people have criticized it for being a waste of time that had no effect on the larger plot. Technically, though, it had an enormous plot consequence: It tipped off the First Order to the existence of the transports and led to their wholesale destruction. It triggered the final blow that wiped out the Resistance. It was, in retrospect, a horrific and fateful miscalculation on every level.

It feels inessential, though, because it’s not played as a mistake or a tragedy. It’s played as a madcap romp. Even afterward, Finn and Rose do not seem particularly troubled that they played a direct role in the death of thousands of their fellow Rebels. The Director Johnson never slows down and lets it sink in.

Literally nothing the Rebels try, right up to the doomed ground attack on Crait, works. It all fails. Almost everyone is killed.

But there is little sense of consequence, no tears, no crippling grief for the failure. The events of the story only make sense as tragedy.

Admittedly, if Johnson had the audience feeling the tragedy then the movie’s box office haul would have suffered. Disney would have been unhappy. He probably would have joined Colin Trevorrow on the list of fired Star Wars directors.

Speaking of decisions and consequences, let’s talk about Poe. The guy is a 360-degree disaster — and more than that, a repudiation of one of the central archetypes of the Star Wars universe — precisely because he is impulsive, short-sighted, hot-headed, and possessed of a confidence that wildly outstrips his knowledge or judgment.

Again and again, women try to set him straight, but he ignores or defies them. And he is not alone. Luke, Kylo, Finn — at one point or another, every major male character disregards the pleas of his far more sensible female counterpart, to disastrous effect.

For a while, it seems that Johnson is determined to teach fanboys the scariest lesson of all: That they should listen to women. But again, he stops short.

Carl von Clausewitz argued in his famous On War that, in war, political objectives must always guide and transcend tactical or strategic objectives — and that field commanders are prone to neglecting this truth, driving for tactical advantage at any cost. That’s essentially what Poe does, by shooting at anything he doesn’t like. He can’t see past his next move. And so, between defying orders, mutinying, and leaking highly sensitive information, he almost single-handedly gets the entire Resistance wiped out.

He’s the devil-may-care Han Solo type, but more like the real-world version, i.e., a volatile f*ckup rather than a natural leader. (The women, Leia and Holdo, are the natural leaders, calm and focused.) But Johnson can’t quite bear to let Poe face the consequences. After he repeatedly threatens the entire Resistance effort, only to finally be knocked out and restrained, we see Holdo and Leia ... regarding Poe fondly? Discussing how much they like him?

Please.

The film even toys with letting go of the neat division of good and evil, light and dark, by threatening to complicate and blur the moral binary that typically governs not only Star Wars but mass-market action-adventure movies everywhere. But then . . . more at www.vox.com/culture/2018/1/12/16834684/the-last-jedi-lost-its-nerve

spot on. Looks like vox found a subject upon which they are not clueless.

I still feel like I was Bait-and-Switched. Went to see a Star Wars epic, forced to suffer a Disney TragicComedy.

I continue to plea: for those who have not seen Rogue One, be sure to watch it before forsaking the entire franchise.

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Friday, January 12, 2018 6:34 PM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Went to see a Star Wars epic, forced to suffer a Disney TragicComedy.

I continue to plea: for those who have not seen Rogue One, be sure to watch it before forsaking the entire franchise.

But the ending for Rogue One was rewritten to make it more tragic, less comic. In the first script version, too many people survived and it ended too happy. Then Disney brings in another writer (for $5,000,000) and he begins slaughtering characters for the hell of it. Spoiler, spoiler: Wash dies in this movie, too.
www.theverge.com/2017/1/15/14268850/star-wars-rogue-one-reshoots-disne
y-gareth-edwards-tony-gilroy

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Friday, January 12, 2018 9:00 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by second:
Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Went to see a Star Wars epic, forced to suffer a Disney TragicComedy.

I continue to plea: for those who have not seen Rogue One, be sure to watch it before forsaking the entire franchise.
But the ending for Rogue One was rewritten to make it more tragic, less comic. In the first script version, too many people survived and it ended too happy. Then Disney brings in another writer (for $5,000,000) and he begins slaughtering characters for the hell of it. Spoiler, spoiler: Wash dies in this movie, too.
www.theverge.com/2017/1/15/14268850/star-wars-rogue-one-reshoots-disne
y-gareth-edwards-tony-gilroy

I had thought Episode 4 had already specified that many rebel lives had been lost, so the first script was a mistake. The version of R1 which was released was what I recommend. Why couldn't they make the same Salvage of TLJ instead of releasing this dreck?

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Saturday, January 20, 2018 9:55 AM

Does anybody have a viable explanation for how/why vessels in a Space Fleet are commanded by either Admirals or Generals?

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Sunday, January 21, 2018 10:55 AM

I won't pretend to know the hirarchy of command in the military, so I have to ask if you're nit-picking details about how that was done in TLJ, JSF.

My brother who served in Military Intelligence told me quite a few times that the most accurate movie he's ever seen when it comes to the details was Pauly Shore's "In the Army Now". I figured before I said that here that I should at least Google it.

Check this out:

"Why ‘In The Army Now’ Is The Most Realistic Military Movie Ever Made"

https://taskandpurpose.com/army-now-realistic-military-movie-ever-made/

Most of what's in that article isn't even stuff my brother would talk about either. He was mostly impressed about how accurate the gear and rank insignias were and said that most serious military movies that are considered classics today had a lot of mistakes in them when it came to that.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Tuesday, January 23, 2018 3:44 AM

We're talking about a galaxy far, far away..............

SGG

Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Does anybody have a viable explanation for how/why vessels in a Space Fleet are commanded by either Admirals or Generals?

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Tuesday, January 23, 2018 8:43 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
We're talking about a galaxy far, far away..............

SGG

Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Does anybody have a viable explanation for how/why vessels in a Space Fleet are commanded by either Admirals or Generals?

Sure, but the ranks mentioned were not Goomitch, Doojobber, Third Kludge, or Vice Preezy.

Generals command land forces and land-based forces, including amphibious forces (like Marines).
Admirals command non-land-based vessels and forces. Like the Navy. And in copies of Star Trek, space fleets.

In TLJ, one scene shows a General commanding, the next is an Admiral.

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Tuesday, January 23, 2018 10:19 AM

lol... when you put it that way, that does seem pretty silly.

The movie was written and directed by douche turds who have been quoted as saying that the Empire is an allegory for the white male patriarchy in America. It's not surprising that nobody on staff was actually in the military.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Tuesday, January 23, 2018 11:58 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
lol... when you put it that way, that does seem pretty silly.

The movie was written and directed by douche turds who have been quoted as saying that the Empire is an allegory for the white male patriarchy in America. It's not surprising that nobody on staff was actually in the military.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

Walt Disney must be rolling in his grave.

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Wednesday, January 24, 2018 5:51 AM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

Walt Disney must be rolling in his grave.

No, he is not. Walt made a career plundering centuries old fairy-tales for his cartoon stories. He'd extensively rewrite the tales for the 20th century. It was Hans Christian Andersen who was spinning in his grave after seeing Walt's cartoons. In this century, the Walt Disney Corporation is plundering Star-Wars books for their fairy-tales:

Get ready for a load of new Jedi skills as the space saga expands its universe into a galaxy far, far away from the one created by George Lucas
www.theguardian.com/film/filmblog/2018/jan/24/new-jedi-mind-tricks-is-
star-wars-slowly-morphing-into-harry-potter-in-space

If you, like me (and apparently Kylo Ren), were a little flabbergasted when Luke Skywalker pulled off his big moment at the close of Star Wars: The Last Jedi, writer-director Rian Johnson has set the record straight. Johnson did not just pluck a new Force power from his box of Jedi mind tricks. As the Looper film-maker revealed on Twitter, he borrowed the new skill from a somewhat obscure 2010 tome titled The Jedi Path: A Manual for Students of the Force, and specifically the chapter on advanced Force techniques.

The book reveals that a technique known as “doppelgänger” allows its user to “create a short-lived duplicate of himself or herself or an external object that is visually indistinguishable from the real item”. It adds: “Those who have perfected this ability can create phantoms of any person of their choosing or trick an enemy into seeing more objects, such as droids, than are actually present.”

So there it is: there are apparently a load of new Jedi skills we’ve never witnessed on the big screen. Naysayers might suggest that a film-maker basing key elements of their plot on a companion book is a cop-out. Yet Johnson, who is making a new trilogy of Star Wars movies that will reportedly have nothing whatsoever to do with the Skywalker or Solo dynasties, is clearly scouring the known Galaxy for anything interesting he can find.

What other gems might be lurking in the Jedi manual? If Disney tires of recycling the well-worn Death Star motif, it could consider adding Force-sensitive baddies with the power to use the “Force storm”. This allows users to open a hyperspace wormhole, which can send “tremendous shocks” that “ripple the fabric of space”. According to an annotation in the manual by Skywalker himself, it can be used “to destroy entire worlds”.

On a more whimsical note, there’s also the “art of the small” technique, otherwise known as Ant-Man-plus, whereby users can “shrink to the size of a single atom” and thereby fix ailments in themselves and others, as well as perceive the universe on a molecular level. Or how about the forbidden “Force insanity” technique, which allows users to drive an opponent mad with “sinister energies”?

There is a danger that if Star Wars is suddenly flooded with dozens of new Force abilities, the space saga could morph into a sort of Harry Potter in space, as new dark arts emerge with each installment. But with the saga now aiming to expand into new corners of the galaxy, such a development seems inevitable.

We can hardly blame Johnson for thinking outside the box. One of the biggest complaints fans had about JJ Abrams’ The Force Awakens was that it borrowed too many tired tropes from the original trilogy. Now, one of the biggest complaints fans have about that movie’s sequel is that it used ideas they had never heard of. Disney and Lucasfilm cannot win: Star Wars is such a beloved franchise that any film-maker is likely eventually to upset fans.

After so many years of being figuratively locked in a box, with the creative key thrown away, this venerable saga its now at the mercy of the Hollywood machine. The truth is that we will have to get used to having our visions of what Star Wars ought to be torpedoed as Lucasfilm expands the universe created by George Lucas into a Marvel-style mega-franchise, with gazillions of potential jumping-off points.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Wednesday, January 24, 2018 7:02 AM

Ok, we're talking about a make-believe galaxy, in a make-believe world where people called "Jedi Knights" are involved in a rebellion and fight the opressors with a contraption made of light.

These guys literally fly through the air and confound and confuse their enemies with something called a mind trick. Who gives a kerpoopie what the bastards are called or what rank?

Tell you what.....write to Disney and tell them to cease and desist using the wrong ranks and nomenclature. That should straighten out those ne'er-do-wells.

SGG

Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
We're talking about a galaxy far, far away..............

SGG

Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Does anybody have a viable explanation for how/why vessels in a Space Fleet are commanded by either Admirals or Generals?
Sure, but the ranks mentioned were not Goomitch, Doojobber, Third Kludge, or Vice Preezy.

Generals command land forces and land-based forces, including amphibious forces (like Marines).
Admirals command non-land-based vessels and forces. Like the Navy. And in copies of Star Trek, space fleets.

In TLJ, one scene shows a General commanding, the next is an Admiral.

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Wednesday, January 24, 2018 12:37 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by second:
We can hardly blame Johnson for thinking outside the box. One of the biggest complaints fans had about JJ Abrams’ The Force Awakens was that it borrowed too many tired tropes from the original trilogy. Now, one of the biggest complaints fans have about that movie’s sequel is that it used ideas they had never heard of. Disney and Lucasfilm cannot win: Star Wars is such a beloved franchise that any film-maker is likely eventually to upset fans.

I think that's just a bit too much of a paraphrase of the criticism. I've never heard anyone complain that the ideas in the film were new. It was that the ideas didn't fit. Luke Skywalker's change didn't seem plausible given his character, and they just told us it happened rather than show us reasons and earn the change. A lot of the Star Wars world was changed in ways that didn't make sense. For instance: Ship shield technology apparently changed over night, Ships now have fuel reserves which has never come up before and begs the question why the Empire came up with a complicated plan to disable the Falcon's hyperdrive on cloud city rather than just drain their fuel, The opening crawl of the movie claims the new order "reigns" when the force awakens claims they were a rising power on the fringe of the galaxy...exactly how do they reign when no time passed between films?

There's a lot of stuff in the movie that just doesn't stand up to the slightest bit of questioning. For a lot of people that killed the suspension of disbelief and instead of being an immersive movie it was jarring and disappointing.

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Wednesday, January 24, 2018 8:00 PM

I don't know how many of you have ever played a game by Ron Gilbert called Maniac Mansion before, but I loved what he had said in an interview a few years back around the 25th anniversary of it's release when he was asked if he would ever make another sequel to it. He said that he would love the idea of it, but he didn't think he'd actually ever do it because it had built up 25 years of nostalgia in people and he didn't believe that there was any way possible that he could ever live up to that.

Good for you Ron.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Wednesday, January 24, 2018 9:09 PM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
I don't know how many of you have ever played a game by Ron Gilbert called Maniac Mansion before, but . . .

Ron Gilbert talks about making Maniac Mansion during Game Forum Germany 2011. Click the link.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Wednesday, January 24, 2018 11:01 PM

Cool. Thanks for the link. I will watch that sometime tonight. I've never actually seen him speak before. Just read a few articles about him and the guys who worked on MM and the sequel.

lol... love the image that's behind him in the youtube thumbnail.

Uh Oh... Razor's standing by the microwave. I don't think that's Hot Pockets I smell. Poor Ed. :(

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Thursday, January 25, 2018 11:39 AM

So, I thought of another example of an issue with The Last Jedi that might clarify why you have to earn changes in characters. In The Force Awakens Han and Chewie were pretty much the exact same characters they were when we last saw them in Return of the Jedi. I didn't hear any complaints about their characters. Plot maybe but not the characters. Now if they wanted to be edgy they could have made Han and Chewie hate each other and literally try to kill each other in The Force Awakens. Wow shocking, right? Sure, but if the only explanation for why they're acting that way is "time passed. people change." I really doubt it would go over well. When established characters change it needs to be earned with reasonable explanation. Not just a shrug.

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Thursday, January 25, 2018 12:25 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Zeek:
So, I thought of another example of an issue with The Last Jedi that might clarify why you have to earn changes in characters. In The Force Awakens Han and Chewie were pretty much the exact same characters they were when we last saw them in Return of the Jedi. I didn't hear any complaints about their characters. Plot maybe but not the characters. Now if they wanted to be edgy they could have made Han and Chewie hate each other and literally try to kill each other in The Force Awakens. Wow shocking, right? Sure, but if the only explanation for why they're acting that way is "time passed. people change." I really doubt it would go over well. When established characters change it needs to be earned with reasonable explanation. Not just a shrug.

I wonder if anybody would disagree with your 2 posts.

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Friday, January 26, 2018 2:13 AM

Yes, what he (Zeek) said.

SGG

Quote:
Originally posted by Zeek:
Quote:
Originally posted by second:
We can hardly blame Johnson for thinking outside the box. One of the biggest complaints fans had about JJ Abrams’ The Force Awakens was that it borrowed too many tired tropes from the original trilogy. Now, one of the biggest complaints fans have about that movie’s sequel is that it used ideas they had never heard of. Disney and Lucasfilm cannot win: Star Wars is such a beloved franchise that any film-maker is likely eventually to upset fans.

I think that's just a bit too much of a paraphrase of the criticism. I've never heard anyone complain that the ideas in the film were new. It was that the ideas didn't fit. Luke Skywalker's change didn't seem plausible given his character, and they just told us it happened rather than show us reasons and earn the change. A lot of the Star Wars world was changed in ways that didn't make sense. For instance: Ship shield technology apparently changed over night, Ships now have fuel reserves which has never come up before and begs the question why the Empire came up with a complicated plan to disable the Falcon's hyperdrive on cloud city rather than just drain their fuel, The opening crawl of the movie claims the new order "reigns" when the force awakens claims they were a rising power on the fringe of the galaxy...exactly how do they reign when no time passed between films?

There's a lot of stuff in the movie that just doesn't stand up to the slightest bit of questioning. For a lot of people that killed the suspension of disbelief and instead of being an immersive movie it was jarring and disappointing.

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Friday, January 26, 2018 2:31 AM

Storytelling 101.....well put.

SGG

Quote:
Originally posted by Zeek:
So, I thought of another example of an issue with The Last Jedi that might clarify why you have to earn changes in characters. In The Force Awakens Han and Chewie were pretty much the exact same characters they were when we last saw them in Return of the Jedi. I didn't hear any complaints about their characters. Plot maybe but not the characters. Now if they wanted to be edgy they could have made Han and Chewie hate each other and literally try to kill each other in The Force Awakens. Wow shocking, right? Sure, but if the only explanation for why they're acting that way is "time passed. people change." I really doubt it would go over well. When established characters change it needs to be earned with reasonable explanation. Not just a shrug.

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Friday, January 26, 2018 8:42 PM

I'd never even heard the points that Zeek had brought up about TLJ, and of course I still haven't seen it for myself. Everything he's saying sounds very reasonable though.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Friday, January 26, 2018 11:10 PM

It goes to continuity Six. For example, Clarence the angel argues that George Bailey's life is worth saving. He presents his case to George because he's the one that needs convincing. So, after all of this, George decides that life IS worth living and finds Zuzu's petals (a symbol for his renewed faith in hope).

Now, imagine, if you will, George deciding that his life is such a wreck that he falls into despair and decides to continue not to exist. This is the dilemma in "It's A Wonderful Life," a life and death struggle with George's conscience and his perception of the worth of his life. So he decides it ain't worth living.

Throughout the film Capra presents, built up by Clarence's (Capra's alter ego) case prep, that there's hope, but George is NOT convinced. So he decides that he's doomed and nothing can save him. But his behavior throughout his life in the film shows that George is the ultimate optimist. He's the everyday man who is literally Good Neighbor Sam. The Good Samaritan. Always finding a way to make lemonade out of lemons. The proverbial beacon of light of positivity. Capra presents the average Joe as hero, and proceeds to tell the story of his journey - the Everyday Man. So, his decision to give in to despair would be, in a word, wrongheaded.

This is what Zeek is presenting in his analysis. It is what I call...well put.

I say, whether you are a fan of Star Wars or not, see the movie and judge for yourself. When I left the theater after seeing TLJ, I left scratching my head as to what I just witnessed. Parts were brilliant, followed by parts that were "not so much." Trouble that I had was determining if this was purposeful on the part of Rian Johnson, or was it just total ignorance of what came before. Was he strictly limiting his screenplay to what he had witnessed in The Force Awakens? If not, then was it just bad writing? I'm not sure because I really did like his sci-fi film "Looper." That was well written. So, do we, the Star Wars fans, give him a mulligan?

SGG

Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
I'd never even heard the points that Zeek had brought up about TLJ, and of course I still haven't seen it for myself. Everything he's saying sounds very reasonable though.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Monday, April 16, 2018 6:10 PM

I didn't see episode 8 yet, and I don't think I'm going to. I was told it sucked and to wait for it to come to TV, so I went to YOUTUBE the other day and the fans are still pissed. They killed off characters they should have saved for episode 9, and they're ALL pissed off with the writer/director and the social justice warriers. Mark Hammil is making clear he won't return in 9, if what the nerds on YOUTUBE are saying is correct Disney has killed STAR WARS. The only way they can save this is if 9 is as good as 5...which won't happen, Jar Jar Abrams doesn't have the talent.

P.S. The nerds are talking about boycotting SOLO.

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Tuesday, April 17, 2018 7:57 AM

Yeah... I don't think that putting a multi-billion dollar franchise in the hands of SJW's was a good gamble in the long run.

Marvel might be trying that and failing miserable in its comic books today, but it can afford to because it's making bank with the movies that aren't run entirely by SJWs. Although, I don't think that they should take for granted these movies will always be as popular as they are today and just completely burn their entire comic book line until the comic book fans just completely turn their back on the company.

It's an interesting experiment that Disney is pulling here, and only a company as large as Disney could afford to do it.

I wonder if the "nerds" boycotting would do any real damage though. It's certainly got to be hitting Disney in the wallet that nobody is buying the Star Wars toys this time around, but even with the decline in ticket sales since The Force Awakens they're still making decent money in the theaters. Maybe TJD was the straw...

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Tuesday, April 17, 2018 4:31 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Yeah... I don't think that putting a multi-billion dollar franchise in the hands of SJW's was a good gamble in the long run.

Marvel might be trying that and failing miserable in its comic books today, but it can afford to because it's making bank with the movies that aren't run entirely by SJWs. Although, I don't think that they should take for granted these movies will always be as popular as they are today and just completely burn their entire comic book line until the comic book fans just completely turn their back on the company.

It's an interesting experiment that Disney is pulling here, and only a company as large as Disney could afford to do it.

I wonder if the "nerds" boycotting would do any real damage though. It's certainly got to be hitting Disney in the wallet that nobody is buying the Star Wars toys this time around, but even with the decline in ticket sales since The Force Awakens they're still making decent money in the theaters. Maybe TJD was the straw...

Do Right, Be Right. :)

Hey there Mr. Acronymbot, what is TJD?

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Tuesday, April 17, 2018 5:56 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Yeah... I don't think that putting a multi-billion dollar franchise in the hands of SJW's was a good gamble in the long run.

Marvel might be trying that and failing miserable in its comic books today, but it can afford to because it's making bank with the movies that aren't run entirely by SJWs. Although, I don't think that they should take for granted these movies will always be as popular as they are today and just completely burn their entire comic book line until the comic book fans just completely turn their back on the company.

It's an interesting experiment that Disney is pulling here, and only a company as large as Disney could afford to do it.

I wonder if the "nerds" boycotting would do any real damage though. It's certainly got to be hitting Disney in the wallet that nobody is buying the Star Wars toys this time around, but even with the decline in ticket sales since The Force Awakens they're still making decent money in the theaters. Maybe TJD was the straw...

Do Right, Be Right. :)

There are vids of people paying $1 for action figures

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Wednesday, April 18, 2018 12:14 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Hey there Mr. Acronymbot, what is TJD?

My bad. TLJ...

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Wednesday, April 18, 2018 12:23 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by whozit:

There are vids of people paying $1 for action figures

I know. It's crazy.

Go to a dollar store and look at the abysmal quality of the action figures you can buy there, in comparison.

I don't know if it can be blamed entirely on Star Wars and Disney. The economy really sucks right now and I'm sure a lot of parents just don't have the money to be paying full price for a bunch of licensed toys these days.

I don't have any kids of my own, and my niece is still too young to be into Star Wars or any action figure type stuff yet. But I wonder if the kids really want the Star Wars toys at all anyhow.

I can remember me and my brothers pleading with our Dad to take us to Toys R Us to get some Star Wars figures, and by that time Return of the Jedi was already 3 or 4 years old. We only knew about the movies because we recorded them on VHS when they were running them on HBO several years later and we watched them so often we wore the tapes out.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Saturday, April 21, 2018 10:51 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:
Originally posted by whozit:

There are vids of people paying $1 for action figures

I know. It's crazy.

Go to a dollar store and look at the abysmal quality of the action figures you can buy there, in comparison.

I don't know if it can be blamed entirely on Star Wars and Disney. The economy really sucks right now and I'm sure a lot of parents just don't have the money to be paying full price for a bunch of licensed toys these days.

I don't have any kids of my own, and my niece is still too young to be into Star Wars or any action figure type stuff yet. But I wonder if the kids really want the Star Wars toys at all anyhow.

I can remember me and my brothers pleading with our Dad to take us to Toys R Us to get some Star Wars figures, and by that time Return of the Jedi was already 3 or 4 years old. We only knew about the movies because we recorded them on VHS when they were running them on HBO several years later and we watched them so often we wore the tapes out.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

UPDATE: (if anyone cares) I went to my local Walmart and found no STAR WARS action figures, NONE! But there were plenty of AVENGERS action figures going for around $12. I was a little surprised how little STAR WARS stuff they had in the toy department.

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Sunday, April 22, 2018 7:35 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by whozit:

UPDATE: (if anyone cares) I went to my local Walmart and found no STAR WARS action figures, NONE! But there were plenty of AVENGERS action figures going for around $12. I was a little surprised how little STAR WARS stuff they had in the toy department.

Interesting.

Were the signs on the empty spots marked down? I did just see a video recently where a guy was at WalMart buying toys that were released only 4 days prior and were already clearanced 75% down to 5 bucks a piece. He even bought a bunch of them at that price.

I wonder how much of this is because of the movies not being that great, and how much of it is that "collectors" just aren't interested anymore because they know that these things won't be worth any money in the long run.

Check this out:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/90s-STAR-WARS-Figure-lot-of-4-SEALED-Hasbro-K
enner-Power-of-the-Force/292516590289?hash=item441b58f2d1:g:KXgAAOSwPHZaysDN

Han Solo, Luke Skywalker, Chewbacca and whatever that 4th one is. 90's Kenner line. Sealed in boxes that look like they're in great shape.

$15.00 buy it now. Free shipping.

Almost 20 years after they originally came out, in what looks to be near mint condition, and somebody is willing to package and ship them to your door for free and end up getting about $2.50 a piece after they pay for shipping. I never bought any of them at the time, but I'd imagine that has to be a loss of at least $5.00 a piece from the original price if they paid full price for them back in the day.

I think maybe people are just not stupid anymore, at least about "collectables". It's all mass produced junk that's never going to be worth anything.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Sunday, April 22, 2018 9:20 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:
Originally posted by whozit:

UPDATE: (if anyone cares) I went to my local Walmart and found no STAR WARS action figures, NONE! But there were plenty of AVENGERS action figures going for around $12. I was a little surprised how little STAR WARS stuff they had in the toy department.

Interesting.

Were the signs on the empty spots marked down? I did just see a video recently where a guy was at WalMart buying toys that were released only 4 days prior and were already clearanced 75% down to 5 bucks a piece. He even bought a bunch of them at that price.

I wonder how much of this is because of the movies not being that great, and how much of it is that "collectors" just aren't interested anymore because they know that these things won't be worth any money in the long run.

Check this out:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/90s-STAR-WARS-Figure-lot-of-4-SEALED-Hasbro-K
enner-Power-of-the-Force/292516590289?hash=item441b58f2d1:g:KXgAAOSwPHZaysDN

Han Solo, Luke Skywalker, Chewbacca and whatever that 4th one is. 90's Kenner line. Sealed in boxes that look like they're in great shape.

$15.00 buy it now. Free shipping.

Almost 20 years after they originally came out, in what looks to be near mint condition, and somebody is willing to package and ship them to your door for free and end up getting about $2.50 a piece after they pay for shipping. I never bought any of them at the time, but I'd imagine that has to be a loss of at least $5.00 a piece from the original price if they paid full price for them back in the day.

I think maybe people are just not stupid anymore, at least about "collectables". It's all mass produced junk that's never going to be worth anything.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

There was a STAR WARS sign in the action figures isle, but that section was now filled with dinosaur figures. I don't know if they sold out our got rid of them because they weren't selling. Also, the new SOLO toys were released April 13, they didn't have any.

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Sunday, April 22, 2018 2:27 PM