O.I.S.--the gun River "finds." by Malicious

FIREFLY EPISODE DISCUSSIONS

O.I.S.--the gun River "finds."

POSTED BY: MALICIOUS
UPDATED: Thursday, February 10, 2005 10:15
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Sunday, January 30, 2005 12:35 PM

River leans over and picks up the twig gun, right? I seem to recall Mal saying after he gets it away from her that it's Jayne's gun and the only way River could have gotten ahold of it is if she picked the lock on the safe or Jayne left it out. Hello! She's a genius with numbers! She picked the safe. Therefore, it IS in a not-Jayne's-fault direction. I should have been a lawyer.

Capisce?

Mal-licious

Co-Holder of the Red Bell from Hell

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Sunday, January 30, 2005 12:47 PM

MISGUIDED BY VOICES

Quote:
Originally posted by Malicious:
River leans over and picks up the twig gun, right? I seem to recall Mal saying after he gets it away from her that it's Jayne's gun and the only way River could have gotten ahold of it is if she picked the lock on the safe or Jayne left it out. Hello! She's a genius with numbers! She picked the safe. Therefore, it IS in a not-Jayne's-fault direction. I should have been a lawyer.

Who's the jury going to believe? Little, sweet (if with a touch of oddness about her) River or big bad, scary Jayne? Who, if I might remind the members of the jury, keeps his guns secure by covering them with a blanket in his room.

The prosecution rests.

"I threw up on your bed"

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Sunday, January 30, 2005 3:01 PM

THEREALME

I think that River read Jayne's mind to get the combination to the gun locker.

Guns are serious business for Jayne. I don't think that he would let them lie around, especially after the butcher knife incident.

The Real Me

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Sunday, January 30, 2005 3:07 PM

MONTANAGIRL

Quote:
Originally posted by Malicious:
She picked the safe. Therefore, it IS in a not-Jayne's-fault direction.

Given that Jayne's guns are hidden behind a blanket, as was pointed out, does he mean he keeps his room locked when he says that his guns are locked up? 'Cause they're definitely not in a safe. That's never quite made sense to me. Although River could just as easily unlock his door as unlock a safe.

Packer fans welcome.
All others tolerated.

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Sunday, January 30, 2005 6:59 PM

DIRTYBROWNCOAT

Well, to me, the doors never seemed to be that hard to get into...unless they were locked.

Jubal locked them in Objects in Space, but it wasn't like when you lock your front door...there wasn't a "lock" that could be picked. It was magnetic, or electronic, or something.

Anyway, what about Veera? In Our Mrs. Reynolds, we saw him holding it while standing inside this hidden little hallway in the cargo bay. Could've been there that she found it.

Simon: You...you came for us.
Mal: You're on my crew.
Simon: Right. I guess I just didn't...you don't even like me.
Mal: You're on my crew. Why we still talking about this?
-Safe

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Sunday, January 30, 2005 8:39 PM

NEEDLESEYE

OK this is "out there", probably been thought of though.
Maybe River picked Jayne's holster then erased the thought from his mind that he had the gun on him in the first place.
Shoot, maybe she used telekenisis transporting the gun there on the floor, but her mind is so distorted she made it a stick in her mental universe, forgetting in the real 'verse, its still a gun.

OK maybe thats silly???

Keeper of Jayne's goggles. 8)

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Sunday, January 30, 2005 8:42 PM

MONTANAGIRL

Quote:
Originally posted by needleseye:
OK this is "out there", probably been thought of though.
Maybe River picked Jayne's holster then erased the thought from his mind that he had the gun on him in the first place.
Shoot, maybe she used telekenisis transporting the gun there on the floor, but her mind is so distorted she made it a stick in her mental universe, forgetting in the real 'verse, its still a gun.

OK maybe thats silly???

Keeper of Jayne's goggles. 8)

I really like that theory. It fits in with what else was going on in OiS. (Damn, why can't I think of stuff like that?

)

Packer fans welcome.
All others tolerated.

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Monday, January 31, 2005 10:20 AM

MALICIOUS

Quote:
Originally posted by Misguided By Voices:
... if I might remind the members of the jury, keeps his guns secure by covering them with a blanket in his room.
The prosecution rests.

What, that's not secure?? Oops!

Mal-licious

Co-Holder of the Red Bell from Hell

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Monday, January 31, 2005 11:58 AM

FREMDFIRMA

OK, the reason for securing stuff inside a spaceship, is of course it's tendancy to move around if you do not.

I highly suspect that gun is not Jaynes, Mal simply assumes it is, cause it's not his or Zoe's and Jayne seems to collect em... I'd almost wager Mal has no idea how many or what kind of guns Jayne has in his room.

That bein said, where did it come from ?

My thoughts run to 2 places - firstoff, that weapon looks very similar to the one River takes from Kaylee and kills three of Niska's goons with in War Stories.
Could be that she simply hung onto it, and in the confusion of the rescue, no one accounted for it or put it back

Second, it could have been dropped during the scuffle on the ship in Heart of Gold, and simply slid out from under something where it was lodged, onto the floor during manuvering.

Also as an outside possibility, River may have set it down and/or discarded it after use in War Stories ("it's just an object") and then it fell, got lodged somewhere, and slid out during manuvers of the ship later.

You see, if you don't secure stuff on a ship, it does tend to move around, especially during tight/violent manuvers - you don't secure something well enough and then go into a hard braking, it could brain you on it's way back...

Just some thoughts,
-F

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Monday, January 31, 2005 12:58 PM

ZEEK

Very good point. I like the theory that it's the same gun River used in War Stories. There could be any number of ways that it got back out into the middle of the floor if River wandered off with it after the fight. Which makes sense too, because if River had returned the gun wouldn't someone have found out earlier about her being a part of the fight? I like it.

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Monday, January 31, 2005 1:04 PM

MISGUIDED BY VOICES

Quote:
Originally posted by Zeek:
Very good point. I like the theory that it's the same gun River used in War Stories. There could be any number of ways that it got back out into the middle of the floor if River wandered off with it after the fight. Which makes sense too, because if River had returned the gun wouldn't someone have found out earlier about her being a part of the fight? I like it.

Not to shoot down debate, but isn't it rather clear from the writing that it is Jayne's gun, he keeps them either hidden and/or locked away, and River knew how and where to find it because of the oddness to her?

"I threw up on your bed"

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Monday, January 31, 2005 4:08 PM

CLAUDIUS

OK this is Crazy but it entered my mind recently when I saw Objects in Space. River made it be there with her head. Keep in mind that it isn't Jayne's Mal's or Zoe's and something loose like that would be put away if it was just lying around on the floor of the hold like that, that just makes plain sense. Ok I know she is obviously psychic, but remember in Trash how she told Jayne that she could kill him with her brain, she may have been joking. But I like to think that she has more powers in her brain than we are just told. I don't know what does anyone out there think?

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Monday, January 31, 2005 6:50 PM

GUNRUNNER

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
My thoughts run to 2 places - firstoff, that weapon looks very similar to the one River takes from Kaylee and kills three of Niska's goons with in War Stories.
Could be that she simply hung onto it, and in the confusion of the rescue, no one accounted for it or put it back

It’s not the gun from WS. The gun in WS was a Browning; the one in OIS was a Desert Eagle.

I think she swiped it from the weapon's locker in the cargo bay. Jayne might have kept a few of his guns there just in case.

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Monday, January 31, 2005 7:27 PM

THEREALME

Jayne did not deny that it was his gun. And there was talk that River had to know a combination to get it out of a locker.

She read the combination out of Jayne's mind, I think, because she sensed that Early was coming and she was getting ready to fight.

The Real Me

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Tuesday, February 1, 2005 2:00 AM

RABIT

Quote:
Originally posted by TheRealMe:
Jayne did not deny that it was his gun. And there was talk that River had to know a combination to get it out of a locker.

She read the combination out of Jayne's mind, I think, because she sensed that Early was coming and she was getting ready to fight.

That's my feelings, also.

Rabit

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Tuesday, February 8, 2005 9:40 AM

BYTETHEBULLET

Quote:
Originally posted by GunRunner:
Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
My thoughts run to 2 places - firstoff, that weapon looks very similar to the one River takes from Kaylee and kills three of Niska's goons with in War Stories.
Could be that she simply hung onto it, and in the confusion of the rescue, no one accounted for it or put it back

It’s not the gun from WS. The gun in WS was a Browning; the one in OIS was a Desert Eagle.

I think she swiped it from the weapon's locker in the cargo bay. Jayne might have kept a few of his guns there just in case.

EV Nova Firefly mod Message Board:
http://s4.invisionfree.com/GunRunner/index.php?act=idx
My Other Site:
http://www.geocities.com/billds9/

Thank you! You saved me from having to post the answer. Well, I did have to post this though.
Unregardless, you nailed it on the head.

ByteTheBullet (-:

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Wednesday, February 9, 2005 11:10 AM

MAGICALTREVOR

I was watching the pilot episode again today and it looks like the gun that Lawman Lawrence has at the end of the episode. (He has two, and when simon jumps him, he loses the small black one to simon but still has a large silver one)

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Wednesday, February 9, 2005 9:53 PM

BLUEBOMBER

The gun River uses in 'War Stories' is taken away by Kaylee, so it's doubtful that it's the same weapon. Since it's not practical to leave guns lying about the ship, I do think River would have had to go to Jayne's locker. However, assuming Jayne keeps his weapons in his room, and given that Jayne's room is in a different part of the ship, I don't see how she could have gotten it from him. The only explanation would be that there is are weapons stored in the cargo bay somewhere, and that River read Mal's or Jayne's minds to get to it.

Her line, "It's just an object; it doesn't mean anything," indicates that she ascribes a different meaning to what she's holding (remember, to her the gun appeared to be a broken twig, "just an object). So I doubt, even though she may have sensed Early's coming, she wouldn't be getting ready for a fight.

Which leads me to a question: Has anyone else heard about Summer Glau learning Chinese martial arts for "Serenity?" I heard a rumor. I wonder if that means River will have fight scenes? I bet she kicks some serious Alliance ass.

DJ

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Thursday, February 10, 2005 3:19 AM

RABIT

Quote:
Originally posted by BlueBomber:
Her line, "It's just an object; it doesn't mean anything," indicates that she ascribes a different meaning to what she's holding (remember, to her the gun appeared to be a broken twig, "just an object). So I doubt, even though she may have sensed Early's coming, she wouldn't be getting ready for a fight.

I mentioned this in another thread, but it's pertinent here, also: I personally think that there were two things going on in this scene, up until the group found her with the gun.

When River woke up, sensing Early, a part of her psychically/astrally/whatever wandered about the ship. This is the part that we saw, the reason that no one actually acknowledge's River's presence in any of the scenes.

However, her body was off preparing to defend itself, Taking one of Jayne's guns from the "locker" (which is probably in the cargo area, as that's where she ends up with it - isn't that where they go in War Stories to load everyone up?), unlocking it with the information she'd read from Jayne (cuz he's weak minded

), and preparing for Early's arrival. Fortunately, her mind and her body got back together before her body started doing something that she would have regretted.

I personally think that this is a part of the programming that the school was doing to her, part of what's been discussed in some of the spoilers for the movie (that I'm not going to mention as this is currently a spoiler-free thread - if you want to know, please go to one of the spoiler threads!).

But hey, that's just me...

Rabit

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Thursday, February 10, 2005 5:56 AM

THEREALME

Right. I was not assuming that River was consciously preparing for Early. Just her subconscious and/or programming. I think that is what took over in War Stories, too. River takes a peek, but does not look at the men she guns down. She doesn't do it consciously.

The Real Me

(The Real Me cannot currently receive messages from this site; he is not ignoring you. But he CAN receive e-mail at realme@pcibroadband.net.)

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Thursday, February 10, 2005 9:35 AM

RAIFTEL

Hey guys, brand new brown coat here....

While we are on the subject of River's gun can anybody help me with a theory as to why she sees the gun as a branch. On the Whedon commentary he passes it off as a a piece of extistentialist trickery but I have always thought it had more meaning.

I always thought that River so a branch because she was supposed to see a branch. As in she has programmed by the academy to view weapons as normal objects and fights and battles as games.

Everyone I say this too just laughs though...

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Thursday, February 10, 2005 10:15 AM

SAKRYSTA

Thoughts:

There IS a weapons' locker in the cargo bay. It's where Book, Simon, and Kaylee get the guns in "War Stories." They're standing in front of it loading the guns as Zoe and Wash come down the stairs. There's no dialog to tell us whether the guns in that cabinet belong to anyone specifically; I imagine some of them are general purpose. :)

Whether the gun River uses in "War Stories" and the one she ends up with in "Objects in Space" look like/are the same gun or not, I think they were intended to be. Blame the propmaster if they're not. I think River is trying to come to terms with herself - both the training she received at the Academy and the acts it has made her capable of. "It's just an object; it doesn't mean what you think" could be her consoling herself. "Just because you've done this doesn't mean you're a ruthless killer." Jubal's proximity could have been what prompted her ruminations - a comparison between herself and him. (Frankly, I've wondered if Jubal wasn't a graduate of the Academy - River's "Don't belong. Dangerous, like you" line makes me think... not to mention, "I'm very close to him; he doesn't even see it," though that one can be explained by her being on his ship). But also, I can hear one of her teachers in her training giving her that line, "It's just an object; it doesn't mean what you think" as part of her training in detachment of herself from her actions.

I also don't think she physically raided the weapons' locker. Not that I don't think she could, but "It was in my hand." I think she was as surprised as they were to find herself weilding that gun. I think it was telekinesis, and I think it was completely unintentional, spurred by her imagination and her trying to come to grips with the fact that she's killed three people without batting an eye - and the fact that Kaylee is now afraid of her.

Large thoughts. Profound episode.

...still a little whimsical in the brain pan...

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