TRAIN JOB vs SERENITY by reginaroadie

FIREFLY EPISODE DISCUSSIONS

TRAIN JOB vs SERENITY

POSTED BY: REGINAROADIE
UPDATED: Thursday, June 9, 2005 09:09
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 6226
PAGE 1 of 1

Thursday, April 21, 2005 2:53 PM

I had re-watched the first two eps of the series again, and I think it's an interesting example of economy of storytelling.

The first time I saw FIREFLY was on tv when it first broadcast. Therefore, the first ep I saw was THE TRAIN JOB. I immediately liked it and was eager to see what happens next. And I also saw the original pilot at the end of it's run. And while the pilot took it's time in setting everything up, I still liked THE TRAIN JOB as a first episode meant to get viewers interested.

Maybe it's because I'm a fan of economic storytelling. I like tv because they have to tell stories and get people emotionally invested in their characters in a very short amount of time. There's no time in dawdling around and meandering. I think that you can easily say something in one sentence what another has to say with four or five. That being said, THE TRAIN JOB establishes the characters and the main conflict in 13 minutes and 40 seconds whereas SERENITY takes 80 minutes to do so.

I know I'm sounding like an exec at FOX. But I'm guessing that most of you here saw THE TRAIN JOB first. And if that was enough for you to be sold on FIREFLY, then this is an example of economic storytelling at it's finest.

So which pilot ep do you prefer? SERENITY or THE TRAIN JOB.

"NO HAI ES BANDAI. THERE IS....NO.....BAND. AND YET....WE HEAR A BAND."

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, April 21, 2005 3:32 PM

EMBERS

Quote:
Originally posted by reginaroadie:
So which pilot ep do you prefer? SERENITY or THE TRAIN JOB.

I much prefer 'Serenity'
I also watched 'The Train Job' first, on TV when it was first aired,
and I felt confused about who all these people were. I was determined to hang in there and watch the series, but I know a lot of people who gave up right then.

The short-hand introductions weren't enough for me to feel who the characters were and what their relationships were...

I've shown 'Serenity' to a lot of people as their first episode and I've always felt that it was the ideal way to get the feel for the 'verse and all the different characters
(plus the shock of wondering if Kaylee will die, if Simon is evil, and other things which are totally meaningless if you see 'Train Job' first)

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, April 21, 2005 3:37 PM

KRAD

I'd go into great depth as to why I think "The Train Job" was an abysmally bad episode that was the primary culprit in Firefly's cancellation, but since I wrote a whole essay on that very subject in Finding Serenity, the new essay collection, I'll just recommend you buy that and read it.

Keith R.A. DeCandido
keith@decandido.net
www.DeCandido.net | www.AlbeShiloh.com
www.livejournal.com/~kradical

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, April 21, 2005 4:11 PM

CALLMEATH

Embers pretty much said everything I wanted to. I also like the introduction of Reavers. Also, Train Job didn't show Mal's loss of faith, which explained alot about Mal's personality. Serenity is definately superior.

"Invader's blood marches through my veins like giant radioactive rubber pants. The pants command me! Do not ignore my veins!"

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, April 21, 2005 5:29 PM

REGINAROADIE

Look, I agree that SERENITY is superior to THE TRAIN JOB. It's more in depth, it DOES take it's time in explaining everything and is more lyrical, if you will. If I were in charge of programming at FOX, I would've promoted the Hell out of that pilot ep so that it would've gotten LOST/DESPERATE HOUSEWIVES ratings and become a cultural phenomenon.

I'm just saying is that I understand where the FuX's exec's were coming from, and that THE TRAIN JOB does what it was intended to do.

I just finished up two film classes. They were weekly classes where we had to watch a bunch of boring-ass flicks that would only seem to satisfy the intellectual film staff and not the regular film student. You'd be a fan of economic storytelling if you had to sit through long, boring, pretentious as hell, erudite foreign flicks every week in film class. You crave TRAIN JOBS, because they get to the point very quickly.

"NO HAI ES BANDAI. THERE IS....NO.....BAND. AND YET....WE HEAR A BAND."

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, April 22, 2005 1:07 AM

KRAD

Quote:
I'm just saying is that I understand where the FuX's exec's were coming from, and that THE TRAIN JOB does what it was intended to do.

I disagree 100%. What "The Train Job" was supposed to do was introduce the milieu of the series, and it did it badly and/or wrong in every possible way. On top of that, it also made out the protagonists of the show to be unsympathetic scuzzbuckets without truly showing the economic desperation that leads them to do things like do a job for an over-the-top villain with an Eastern European accent who tortures people and go out of their way not to ask what the cargo is, and then have the temerity to be self-righteous (and surprised) when it turns out to be something they shouldn't steal.

People who come to internet bulletin boards and are die-hard Joss Whedon fans would stick around beyond that, because they know that there'll be more to it. But a wider audience? A wider audience that Fox needed for the show to be successful? They're going to see this, wonder why they should give a good goddamn about any of these people, and watch something else next week.

Keith R.A. DeCandido
keith@decandido.net
www.DeCandido.net | www.AlbeShiloh.com
www.livejournal.com/~kradical

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, April 22, 2005 2:00 AM

RABIT

Quote:
Originally posted by KRAD:
I'd go into great depth as to why I think "The Train Job" was an abysmally bad episode that was the primary culprit in Firefly's cancellation, but since I wrote a whole essay on that very subject in Finding Serenity, the new essay collection, I'll just recommend you buy that and read it.

Comically, I just finished reading your essay - about five minutes ago!

In general, I agree with a lot of your points, KRAD. (And I agree that everyone should go buy the book. I'm not far into it, but it's a very interesting and diverse set of essays.) However, when I first watched Train Job, I (luckily) caught many of the things that were a little harder to get - such as the backstory of the war - in the expressions and emotions of various situations.

Unfortunately, I don't have the time to write a complete post on this topic, but I really do think that - for the audience that Fox was aiming for - you were right: the Train Job was not a good episode to lead with.

But doesn't it come down to the fact that the Fox Execs have a practice of expecting a program to do too well, right from the start?

Dang - gotta get to work... *sigh*

Rabit

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, April 22, 2005 4:12 AM

FORRESTWOLF

KRAD, I've really been wanting to provide you feedback on your essay - I sure enjoyed it (buy the book, everyone! Finding Serenity - can find it on Amazon, and Barnes and Noble is stocking it in stores sometimes).

But I completely disagree about Train Job's quality (NOT its choice as first episode, which was poor) - my wife and I watched Train Job first, of course (broadcast). Immediately after Book's voiceover, I turned to her and said this was a show we were going to love. When we saw the Asian influence in the bar - when Mal said, "I think we'll rise again," and the ship came up, the theme song - just made me fall in love with the show from the start.

Three things that just WORKED for us:

1) The characters CLICKED - from the start - seemed like they'd been together for months (which they had, in the storyline), more than any show I've ever seen.

2) Niska - quite the opposite of your reaction, I LOVED him. I guess I'm a sap - his 'reputation' schpiel had me in chills.

3) Believe it or not, completely contrary to your opinion, when Mal changed his mind and gave the goods back, THAT was when I saw his true colors, and it didn't seem fake at all (in contrast to what you thought). It was perfect - man of honor in a den of thieves, as Badger says (in the BETTER episode Serenity, by the way).

Bottom line? You are dead-on, KRAD, about Serenity being a BETTER episode (maybe the best, maybe not), and even being a better pilot.

But in almost every place where you found Train Job lacking, I saw the flip-side - an incredible piece of work in a very short space.

Buy the book, everyone - first chance we get for an 'official' piece of Firefly before the comics come out! Really great essays by KRAD and many more.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, April 27, 2005 4:38 AM

DIRTYBROWNCOAT

Perhaps this is me still feeling burned by FOX for airing the episodes out of order, but I feel that Serenity is the BEST episode to be viewed first, if only because it was MEANT to be viewed first.

Serenity does everything it needs to. It introduces you to the 'verse, the characters, and the situation. It may not spoon-feed you exactly what's going on, which is why some people may be confused because they don't go in-depth on explanation for the big war scene at the beginning (I thought it was plainly obvious, myself).

I think that The Train Job is a good episode, but it SUCKS as a pilot. It spends a lot of time explaining what should have been seen the previous week in Serenity - granted, it probably would have done that had Serenity been aired first, because a lot of times the early episodes of a series tend to have a lot of exposition in case people miss...

...anyway. Serenity is a very character-driven piece, focused on getting you into the minds of the characters and establishing the relationships between them. And there was action as well, which makes it all the better.

I stand by my decision, as I have since I started watching. Serenity is the definitive pilot for Firefly, and so it shall always be. Throw any episode you want before it, Serenity is always going to do a better job at getting the show off the ground.

The Operative: Every minute you keep River Tam from me, more people will die. This was your fault.
Mal: I don't murder children.
The Operative: I do.
-Serenity trailer

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, April 27, 2005 5:01 AM

FORRESTWOLF

Well, I'd say we'll all agree that the BEST pilot for Firefly will be the MOVIE Serenity, right?

Let's hope it can really bring the 'Verse to the common folk!

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, April 27, 2005 5:11 AM

MENECE

SERENITY.........HAND"S DOWN!!!!..........NOW!,..... Go Run Your Little World!!.....

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, April 27, 2005 7:34 PM

DIRTYBROWNCOAT

Quote:
Originally posted by Forrestwolf:
Well, I'd say we'll all agree that the BEST pilot for Firefly will be the MOVIE Serenity, right?

Let's hope it can really bring the 'Verse to the common folk!

That's one way to look at it...but is it really a pilot if it takes place after everything else?

Simon: You...you came for us.
Mal: You're on my crew.
Simon: Right. I guess I just didn't...you don't even like me.
Mal: You're on my crew. Why we still talking about this?
-Safe

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, April 28, 2005 2:37 AM

FORRESTWOLF

Ah...but it will be BEFORE two more movies!

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, May 25, 2005 10:08 AM

KRYSTLE

SERENITY IS THE BETTER EPISODE HANDS DOWN, DON'T KNOW WHY THE STUID PEOPLE AT FOX DIDN'T LIKE IT!!!!

NO POWER IN THE 'VERS CAN STOP ME!

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, May 25, 2005 10:26 AM

CHRISISALL

To be quite selfish for a moment;
If they had broadcast Serenity first, I would have been a die-hard fan from that moment, and would have had to suffer it's cancellation. By showing Train Job first, I was not completely hooked and missed out becoming a fan until late February of this year, bypassing a Gorram bunch of grief. So for me , it was good.
Sorry, didn't mean to make this all about me.
It's really all about Malicious. But she knows that.

Late bloomer Chrisisall

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, May 25, 2005 11:20 AM

ZEEK

Serenity hands down.

Now that could be partly Fox's fault. I saw their advertisements of a girl in a box and such and the whole episode of the Train Job I was waiting for that girl in a box and was so confused. At the end I assumed I missed an episode and was fairly put off by the whole thing. Later I found out I did miss an episode but it wasn't my fault. If Fox had just done everything right maybe I could have paid more attention to the train job.

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, June 9, 2005 9:09 AM

KIZZIECSTARS

well, i would have to say...

actually, i saw shindig first because my disks were all mixed up and i was (stupit me) trying to find the right one in the dark and, well, got the wrong one. HOWEVER my wonderful story of sheer laziness at not bothering to get up and turn a light on shows that heck, ANY of the eps is enough to get you hooked on it! so all this petty squabling is for nowt. well, sort of, maybe not.

... i prefer serenity, if only for the part where mal is really mean to simon!

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

YOUR OPTIONS

SHARE THREAD

NEW POSTS TODAY

USER	POST DATE

USER

POST DATE