FIREFLY EPISODE DISCUSSIONS

Just WHAT is the Callahan Full-Bore Auto-Lock?

POSTED BY: FANGUN
UPDATED: Thursday, August 18, 2005 03:24
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VIEWED: 13171
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Wednesday, August 10, 2005 7:32 PM

FANGUN


Not sure if this is the right place to post this, but I think I finally came up with a plausible explanation of just what the hell Vera is, in terms of guns that is. Maybe someone's done it before, but I've never read a satisfactory explanation.

Ever since Jayne tried to trade Vera for Saffron in Our Mrs. Reynolds, I've been wondering what exactly it means to be a Callahan Full-Bore Auto-Lock with a double cartridge thorough gauge. What I really think happened is that Joss hocked a loogie on the NRA website from across the room and picked the first five words with spit on them.

But seriously, let's think about this: Vera is a top-of-the line firearm a few hundred years in the future. Now the basic principle of the firearms has been the same for the past 500 years in our world, but just think of the advances that material and chemical technology have brought to guns. Vera is bound to be a quantum leap on the same old projectile weapon concept.

Let's look at the language: Double cartridge thorough gauge. Double cartridge means two cartridges. Gauge is a reference to bore diameter, used for smoothbore weapons (shotguns) and thorough means just that: consistent throughout. My guess is that Vera can be reconfigured to accomodate more than one cartridge. Furthermore, she does this not in the way our firearms do (by replacing barrels and components) but by physically reconfiguring the barrel. There's a couple methods that could theoretically do this even though the materials to do this don't exist today. Through the use of magnetic rifling spin is imparted to the bullet with magnets instead of grooves, or memory metals which alter the actual grooves in the barrel, the Callahan FBAL could accomodate different cartridges, bullet weights, and bore diameters with the touch of a button. She could switch, say, between smoothbore shotgun and precision rifle instantly, or perhaps from using a slow heavy wide bullet, to a tiny, light fast one. Hard to imagine? Maybe, but not more so than a polymer gun and smokeless powder would be to a person raised on a Brown Bess musket. Given the binary nature of magnetics and memory metals, it makes sense that these rifling methods would accomodate only two cartridges. Hence, "double -cartridge thorough gauge".

But what of the "full bore"? Well surely manufacturing a barrel with the technology above would be incredibly expensive. Callahan probably makes an economy model where only a portion of the barrel has this ability (much like screw-on chokes for modern shotguns...giving primarily smoothbore weapons the temporary ability to stabilize a slug for long-range shooting). Now, Vera, being top-of-the-line, is certainly not an economy model, and is therefore a FULL BORE, Callahan Auto-Lock.

And as for the Auto-Lock? That could be a fancy marketing schtick used to describe any number of technologies. Maybe its a laser designator that can paint a target and allow the weapon's optical sight and/or barrel to electronically adjust. Or maybe it's a continuously computed reticle always putting an visible electronic dot on the point of impact. Both these technologies are in use on modern aircraft for missiles and guns and its only a matter of time before they become minaturized enough to work on a man-portable arm. Whatever the Auto-Lock feature is, if Vera's processor knows the type of cartridge, bullet weight, and can adjust the configuration of the barrel's rifling, she can predict pretty darn well where the bullet will strike. Especially when you consider that a modern sniper rifle with a glorified telescope on top can make hits on a human at 1200 yards.

So there you have it. The Callahan Full-Bore Auto-Lock, with double-cartridge thorough gauge.




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Thursday, August 11, 2005 5:46 PM

THIEFJEHAT


You forgot about the customized trigger.



Do not fear me. Ours is a peaceful race, and we must live in harmony.

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Thursday, August 11, 2005 9:26 PM

DIEGO


I know very little about guns, but your explanation sounds pretty reasonable and well-thought out. And of course it sounds tons better than the kind of technobabble in certain other sci-fi. I like the fact that your explanation extrapolates plausible future technologies into Vera's design.

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Friday, August 12, 2005 10:56 AM

FANGUN


Thanks. I think I got some Beef when a friend of mine declared he didn't like Firefly owing to the fact that "they were still using guns 500 years from now." I tried to explain that it was for the same reason we still use knives: Because they work well!

I like the glimpses of luxury and technology you occasionally see in the series, of which Vera is an example. The juxtaposition with the primitive technologies the crew employs really kind of demonstrate how poor and outcast they really are. Kind of like going to an Africn villiage where no one has a TV, even though the poorest of Americans generally do.

On another note: Vera appears to be based of a Saiga-12. Or more specifically, a VERY hacked up Saiga-12 that Hollywood gunsmith James Borland created for Robert DeNiro's character in "Showtime"

http://www.securityarms.com/20010315/galleryfiles/2100/2173.htm

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Friday, August 12, 2005 10:57 AM

FANGUN


er...yeah I did....but c'mon, you don't need that explained, do ya?

Quote:
Originally posted by thiefjehat:
You forgot about the customized trigger.



Do not fear me. Ours is a peaceful race, and we must live in harmony.

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Sunday, August 14, 2005 8:25 PM

TJACK


I just loved that it was named after "Dirty" Harry Callahan, owner of the most powerful handgun in the world.

...cause Justice is the one thing you should always find.

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Monday, August 15, 2005 2:53 AM

EST120


Quote:
Originally posted by Tjack:
the most powerful handgun in the world.


and would blow your head clean off.....

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Monday, August 15, 2005 3:52 AM

HARDWARE


Well, as a recreational shooter I always thought that Joss just plucked handy firearms sounding words out of thin air or a firearm manufacturer's website.

And FYI, there are a couple of handgun calibers out there now packing more punch than Mr. Callahan's .44 magnum. Look up .454 Casul if you want some info.

The more I get to know people the more I like my dogs.

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Monday, August 15, 2005 7:49 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:
Originally posted by est120:
and would blow your head clean off.....
You'v got to ask yourself one question...

Dirty Chrisisall

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Monday, August 15, 2005 7:51 AM

CHRISISALL


FanGun, you MUST email that to Adam!!!Or Joss!!!

That was cool Chrisisall

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Monday, August 15, 2005 9:52 AM

EST120


Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:
Originally posted by est120:
and would blow your head clean off.....
You'v got to ask yourself one question...

Dirty Chrisisall


do I feel lucky?

Haha. Someone should start a thread with a "fill in the scripted reply" or "what is the next line?" for movie quotes.

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Monday, August 15, 2005 10:29 AM

REAVERMADNESS


I kinda thought along the same lines. I thought that it (she) could be a future version of something along the lines of the Medusa revolver produced by Phillips & Rodger (can use 25 different cartridges). Or maybe something along the lines of the New England Survivor SB1-41 (fire a 45 colt cartridge or a 410 shotgun shell).

As far as the "Full bore auto lock" part I had thought that maybe they meant the term "Full bore" to mean much as it does now: "All out" As in a complete auto-lock. Perhaps as opposed to one with limited features/abilities.

When I die I want to go peacefully in my sleep like my grandpa. Not screaming and yelling like everyone else in the car he was driving.

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Monday, August 15, 2005 11:44 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

and would blow your head clean off.....You've got to ask yourself one question...
do I feel lucky?
Well do ya, PUNK?

Harry Chrisisall

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Monday, August 15, 2005 1:07 PM

FANGUN


email Adam and Joss? Are they really gonna care what some gun nut with too much time on his hand thought up?


Multi-cal firearms would be pretty handy in space where you never know where your next supply is coming from. That's one of the reasons think they still use revolvers now and again. Save brass.

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Monday, August 15, 2005 1:31 PM

DROCCULARI


Auto-lock would certainly explain Jayne's mighty fine shooting in Our Mrs. Reynolds, since he couldn't sight down the barrel. While you're thinking on the subject, do you have any idea why Vera needed air around her to fire?

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Monday, August 15, 2005 1:46 PM

CHRISISALL


Quote:
Originally posted by FanGun:
email Adam and Joss? Are they really gonna care what some gun nut with too much time on his hand thought up?
They strike me as those w/a sense of humour, and I thought it was great how you made sense of a few mashed together gun-like words into something meaningful!
I'm SURE they'd get a kick out of it.
Overanalyzing is hilarious, like the dentist on Saturday Night Live that reviewed movies based on the reality of the dental hygine of the era.

Made me smile...Chrisisall

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Monday, August 15, 2005 2:08 PM

R1Z


Question for FANGUN:

I recently inherited (from my late father) a very peculiar hand gun, with a folding shoulder stock. It's engraved, "MARBLE'S GAME GETTER GUN, MARBLE ARMS & MFG. CO.,GLADSTONE, MICH., U.S.A."

It's got two stacked barrels, 13" long. The other side is engraved, "UPPER BARREL .22S.L.L.R.& N.R.A.

LOWER BARREL .44 G (something I can't make out)& 410 2""

The hammer hits a device that appears to drive the firing pins in both chambers.

It looks like it's at least 100 years old.

Do you suppose it's the distant ancestor of the Callahan Full-Bore Auto-Lock?

Sadly, I never saw it while dad was alive, so I couldn't ask about it.

To enjoy the flavor of life, take big bites. Moderation is for monks. --Robt. Heinlein

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Monday, August 15, 2005 2:26 PM

DRROB


Hey all... new here but funny thing is I first heard about Firefly/Serenity on a gun board I moderate at www.thehighroad.org.

The guns of Firefly have been well discussed over there for a variety of reasons... but you know even as an enthusiast... we tend to 'overlook' some of the obvious ??? about the technology (or lack thereof) in the show.

Mal's pistol looks reminiscent of a Steyr design from the late 1800's and everyone know's Han Solo's pistol was a Mauser C-96. The idea of mixing 'working' technology with old and new isn't really new... look at Duncan's lever action blaster in the forgettable "Masters of The Universe" count the number of AK's among the Rebels in Star Wars episode 6.

Full bore auto lock could mean something as simple as it can be transformed from .410 to 10 ga. with the twist of a collar... it's supposed to be powerful enough 'to almost cut through the hull" of Serenity but not quite.

So what if Marlin lever guns ride through space beside "The Lassiter" laser pistol.

It's just good entertainment. We don't let it get in the way of a good story.



"Guess you broke into the wrong rec room!"

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Monday, August 15, 2005 3:29 PM

FANGUN


Wow...those Marble's Game Getter guns are a real piece of history. Hang on to that. Not only is it valuable, but, of course, it's a pain to transfer NFA arms legally (but lucky you, you inherited it!)
Yeah...I'll bet there's a little of it in the Callahan FBAL :)

I love the placement of arms in Firefly. Lassiter s and all.



Quote:
Originally posted by R1Z:
Question for FANGUN:

I recently inherited (from my late father) a very peculiar hand gun, with a folding shoulder stock. It's engraved, "MARBLE'S GAME GETTER GUN, MARBLE ARMS & MFG. CO.,GLADSTONE, MICH., U.S.A."

It's got two stacked barrels, 13" long. The other side is engraved, "UPPER BARREL .22S.L.L.R.& N.R.A.

LOWER BARREL .44 G (something I can't make out)& 410 2""

The hammer hits a device that appears to drive the firing pins in both chambers.

It looks like it's at least 100 years old.

Do you suppose it's the distant ancestor of the Callahan Full-Bore Auto-Lock?

Sadly, I never saw it while dad was alive, so I couldn't ask about it.

To enjoy the flavor of life, take big bites. Moderation is for monks. --Robt. Heinlein

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Monday, August 15, 2005 4:43 PM

ISROUSRO


Boy do you have a keeper. A Game Getter will go for around $2000 plus or minus depending on condition and if it is NFA/AOW (gun stuff you can look up the meaning) reportable.

passionately indifferent

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Monday, August 15, 2005 4:54 PM

ISROUSRO


Another thing Marbles is still in business. Here is the website: http://www.marblesoutdoors.com/

passionately indifferent

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Monday, August 15, 2005 6:00 PM

FANGUN


Wow...those Marble's Game Getter guns are a real piece of history. Hang on to that. Not only is it valuable, but, of course, it's a pain to transfer NFA arms legally (but lucky you, you inherited it!)
Yeah...I'll bet there's a little of it in the Callahan FBAL :)

I love the placement of arms in Firefly. Lassiter s and all.



Quote:
Originally posted by R1Z:
Question for FANGUN:

I recently inherited (from my late father) a very peculiar hand gun, with a folding shoulder stock. It's engraved, "MARBLE'S GAME GETTER GUN, MARBLE ARMS & MFG. CO.,GLADSTONE, MICH., U.S.A."

It's got two stacked barrels, 13" long. The other side is engraved, "UPPER BARREL .22S.L.L.R.& N.R.A.

LOWER BARREL .44 G (something I can't make out)& 410 2""

The hammer hits a device that appears to drive the firing pins in both chambers.

It looks like it's at least 100 years old.

Do you suppose it's the distant ancestor of the Callahan Full-Bore Auto-Lock?

Sadly, I never saw it while dad was alive, so I couldn't ask about it.

To enjoy the flavor of life, take big bites. Moderation is for monks. --Robt. Heinlein

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Monday, August 15, 2005 7:28 PM

FREMDFIRMA


Quote:
Originally posted by DrRob:
Hey all... new here but funny thing is I first heard about Firefly/Serenity on a gun board I moderate at www.thehighroad.org.

The guns of Firefly have been well discussed over there for a variety of reasons... but you know even as an enthusiast... we tend to 'overlook' some of the obvious ??? about the technology (or lack thereof) in the show.


Fair warning:

I reccommend you stay away from that place... that is, unless you're the right color, belief, and politics...
They gotta way of makin folks feel realllllly unwelcome, unless those folk are the same ones with a hankerin for Klan membership, that is.
The concept of the place is cool, but the execution leaves a lot to be desired, sadly.
A couple folk i know personally got run out of there on a rail for not fitting the desired mold, so be careful if ya visit.

The information is there is A+ in quality, but the atmosphere leaves a lot to be desired.

-F


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Monday, August 15, 2005 7:34 PM

DRROB


That's kind of ironic since our 'boss' is a Russian Jew... I'm not here to recruit for and or promote our site... I'm just a fan like anyone else.

You'll find a lot of Browncoats in a lot of suprising places.



"Guess you broke into the wrong rec room."

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Tuesday, August 16, 2005 1:47 AM

EST120


Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Well do ya, PUNK?


Hey man, I gots to know....

That is such a great scene. I love it.

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Tuesday, August 16, 2005 1:47 AM

EST120


double post

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Tuesday, August 16, 2005 3:26 PM

YT

the movie is not the Series. Only the facts have been changed, to irritate the innocent; the names of the actors and characters remain the same


It's gobbledygook, written by someone with zero knowledge of the subject.

Keep the Shiny Side Up . . .

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Wednesday, August 17, 2005 5:17 AM

MOOSE


Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:


Fair warning:

I reccommend you stay away from that place... that is, unless you're the right color, belief, and politics...
They gotta way of makin folks feel realllllly unwelcome, unless those folk are the same ones with a hankerin for Klan membership, that is.



Sorry that you and your friends had a bad time at The High Road, but I've been a member there for a few years without any problems.

I'm a moderate Democrat with Atheistic tendencies...

And I most definitely would not be welcome in the Klan, as their wardrobe wouldn't match my skin color.

And as DrRob pointed out, the site is run by a Russian Jew. So I think the veiled racist accusation is unfounded.

There are quite a few Firefly fans over there, just goes to show how universally appealling it is.

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Wednesday, August 17, 2005 6:00 AM

FREMDFIRMA


Apparently you did not read (nor did you quote) the entire post.

Let me correct that for ya.
Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
A couple folk i know personally got run out of there on a rail for not fitting the desired mold, so be careful if ya visit.


As in knew them, as in watched them get run off, one in particular for daring to say that maybe folks there shouldn't be so eager to kill every single living being professing a certain belief or ethnicity.

It was made abundantly clear to them by the management, that while hate speech directed at certain groups is acceptable, calling people on it was not.

I would not call that an unfounded accusation, as he showed me the message itself.

The useful information part of the site, again, is of undeniable quality, but the society, not so much.

-F

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Wednesday, August 17, 2005 1:11 PM

MOOSE


Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
Apparently you did not read (nor did you quote) the entire post.

Let me correct that for ya.
Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
A couple folk i know personally got run out of there on a rail for not fitting the desired mold, so be careful if ya visit.


As in knew them, as in watched them get run off, one in particular for daring to say that maybe folks there shouldn't be so eager to kill every single living being professing a certain belief or ethnicity.

It was made abundantly clear to them by the management, that while hate speech directed at certain groups is acceptable, calling people on it was not.

I would not call that an unfounded accusation, as he showed me the message itself.

The useful information part of the site, again, is of undeniable quality, but the society, not so much.

-F


I usually don't quote entire posts because it seems to take up so much room.

Actually, can you use the email function here to send me some details about your friends experiance at The High Road? I am very interested in looking into this, as it is very different from what I've experianced there. And actually seeing it there might change my mind about it.

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Thursday, August 18, 2005 2:08 AM

MOOSE


Thanks for the info, Fremdfirma.

Sucks to hear something like that happening at a forum that I usually hold in high regard.

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Thursday, August 18, 2005 3:24 AM

REAVERMADNESS


Quote:
Originally posted by DrOcculari:
Auto-lock would certainly explain Jayne's mighty fine shooting in Our Mrs. Reynolds, since he couldn't sight down the barrel. While you're thinking on the subject, do you have any idea why Vera needed air around her to fire?


Since nobody else wanted to jump on this I think I will.

Two possibilities:
1) Is it's a technology that we don't use/have and it requires air - presumably for combustion.
2) It may be do to the common, but erroneous belief that combustion "fire" arms require air (oxygen) to shoot. Makes since on the serface. I mean fire minus air equals no fire. Doesn't work out that way though. A rifle/pistol/shotgun cartridge has everthing it needs inside it. You could have a fine war on the moon with M16s & AKs. You don't need lasers to be effective weapons in space. They just look "cooler".

I always thought it would be interesting to work out single man space ships that would use WW2 armament. While there are more effective modern arms, I think the juxtaposition would be interesting... And think of the range you could get out of those things!

When I die I want to go peacefully in my sleep like my grandpa. Not screaming and yelling like everyone else in the car he was driving.

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