Who are the Hands of Blue? * spoilers * by Gendou

FIREFLY EPISODE DISCUSSIONS

Who are the Hands of Blue? * spoilers *

POSTED BY: GENDOU
UPDATED: Friday, October 28, 2005 09:12
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Monday, August 29, 2005 6:09 PM

Spoiler warning for those who haven't finished the series, and specifically for those who haven't seen Ariel.

Who do you think the HoB Agents are?
I had assumed that they were telepaths, on the order of what they were trying to turn River into. I had similarly assumed that the blue rods they used were psionic amplifiers and that the hemmoraghic effects on their victims was not caused directly by the rods themselves, but by the HoB Agents.

However, after watching Ariel with my wife last night, I realized that while I had assumed the HoB's were telepaths and that the rods were amplifiers for their mental powers, that I have absolutely no evidence for my assumption. It's just based on hours upon hours of Babylon 5 and X-Com.

Similarly, I had assumed them to be government agents of one sort or another, but there appears to be some evidence that they actually work for the ubiquitous Blue Sun corporation (blue gloves aside, it appears that River really doesn't care for Blue Sun).

What do you guys think?

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Wednesday, August 31, 2005 7:37 PM

DESCENT

I think they're telepaths too, more than likely they are the ones that experimented on River. The experiments were an attempt to make her one of them but they never finished thanks to Simon taking her away (hence her mind being on the crazy side).

Again its just my theory but I think it makes very much sense.

Mal: She's a human being. She has a name.
Jayne: So does this. I call her Vera.
Mal: Well the days of me taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle...

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Wednesday, August 31, 2005 8:06 PM

STARRBABY

They always reminded me of Angent Smith from the Matrix. Not sure why.

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Thursday, September 1, 2005 1:41 PM

SHADOW37

Quote:
Originally posted by Starrbaby:
They always reminded me of Angent Smith from the Matrix. Not sure why.

I'll agree with that-they're both creepy (very creepy), wear suits, and generally mean harm to everyone.

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Thursday, September 1, 2005 3:30 PM

SPIKEANDJEZEBEL

They are featured in the Serenity comic - hopefully the final installment will shed some more light on them.

"I have never understood why it should be necessary to become irrational in order to prove that you care. Or indeed, why it should be necessary to prove it at all." -Kerr Avon

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Monday, September 5, 2005 4:25 PM

THIEFJEHAT

Buried deep in this site somewhere is my early theory of the HoB and Blue Sun. I believe I posted it more than a year ago initally.

The Blue Sun Corporation represents a corporate culture allowed to operate in an environemnt void of government regulation. This is not the first time such a theme has been forwarded in sci-fi. If you are familiar with the books behind the Alien and Aliens movies, Ripley worked for "The Corporation", which was the body that controlled all humanity.

Firefly, however, is different. In the 'verse of firefly we have three main entities that control humanity. The foremost is the Alliance government. But just behind the veil of this bureaucracy are 2 other bodies of influence. These are composed of an assortment of nobility, and the various corporations, one of which is Blue Sun. Blue Sun seems to be a rather large conglomerate controlling different factions of human life. I envision a company that is a combination of Procter&Gamble/Microsoft/Lockheed-Martin. If you look very, very carefully throughout the 14 episodes, you'll catch references to Blue Sun. The obvious scene that most folks are aware of are the Blue Sun identifiers attached to the shipping containers on cargo boxes in the eavestown docks on Persephone during the pilot episode. But there are more things to see.
1. River tears labels off Blue Sun canned goods
2. Jayne wears his blue sun t-shirt until River slashes it with a knife.
3. When the ship is docked at the outset of the episode "The message" you can see video ads in the background for a Blue Sun Cola brand.

Most people in the Alliance purchase and consume Blue Sun food. My theory is that what these people are unaware of is that the food they eat contains nanites. These serve as vehicles for which the common person can be either controlled or disposed of. So when the HoB realized that the alliance officer and his lackeys had spoken to the prisoners, they were left with no choice to use a device to activate the nanites in their bodies with a command "kill this host"

More evidence for this theory exists in the transcript of the "crazy rantings" that river is making as she sees the Blue Sun Canned goods in Shindig and starts tearing the labels off:
There it is. There it is.
It's always there when you look for it.
Everybody sees and nobody sees it...

These are the little ones that take you!
Little ones in the corner that you almost don't see.
But they're the ones that reach in and do it.
They're the ones with teeth and you have to smash them!

A million things.
And the little ends of the roots go everywhere.
And when you brush your teeth or all...
The little blue things are there.
But no one says it.
Because...Because sometimes they're afraid.
And then THEY come.... (Her ranting is cut off)

The "Little blue things" are Blue Sun nanites. River knew what was in the food the moment she laid eyes on the blue sun lables but because of her mental state she is unable to communicate her knowledge to Simon, Jayne, and Book who are playing Tallcard at the adjacent table. She just acts out. In a similar fashion she sees Jayne's Blue Sun shirt in the episode Ariel and slashes it with a butcher knife. Then denounces the BLUE of Blue Sun by saying that Jayne looks better in red...or rather his blood.

River was harmed at the academy. The acadamy is a front for the Alliance government to find the most talented people in the 'verse that they can recruit into their secret military. Blue Sun's military research division has the government contract to study and experiment on people like River...to bring out psychic ability. With her new abilities River was able to gleen information from her captors far beyond what they ever intended her to know. This explains her knowledge of the nanites in the food. There is also info in the movie *No spoilers...don't worry* that adds more value to my theory.

Finally...the point of this thread....who are the HoB? I firmly believe that they are leading researchers in Blue Sun's military R&D division. They head up the governmental contract to perform experiments on the best and brightest of Alliance civilians to produce a psychic super soldier. They clearly had direct contact with River on several occasions and River suffered greatly for it.

I'd be interested on hearing anybody elses opinions.

Do not fear me. Ours is a peaceful race, and we must live in harmony.

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Monday, September 19, 2005 2:55 PM

DIRTYBROWNCOAT

Quote:
Originally posted by spikeandjezebel:
They are featured in the Serenity comic - hopefully the final installment will shed some more light on them.

Select to view spoiler:

It's too bad that that wasn't the case...I loved the mini-series, but I thought the Hands of Blue went out in a fairly bogus fashion.

Simon: You...you came for us.
Mal: You're on my crew.
Simon: Right. I guess I just didn't...you don't even like me.
Mal: You're on my crew. Why we still talking about this?
-Safe

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Tuesday, September 20, 2005 7:32 AM

ELEANOR

Wow, that nanite theory is really good...I wish I'd thought of that!

Regarding the comics:

Select to view spoiler:

Yeah, it was dissappointing how easily defeatable they were, after all that buildup. Issue #2 promised a "shocking revelation" in #3, but we really didn't learn anything about the HoB's...except that they're not just wearing gloves....

"Be very, very careful what you put into that head, because you will never, ever get it out." –Cardinal Wolsey

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Saturday, September 24, 2005 10:25 AM

KIZYR

Re: thiefjehat

...wow. That's the first time I've heard anyone make that much sense out of River's rantings. I was thinking the nanite theory was way out of left field right until River started making sense.

I'm not sure if I should be disturbed by that fact at all {^^}.

Anyway, I'm not so sure about nanites in particular. It could be a number of things... drugs, microbes, chemical agents... anything "Big Brother"-like to exert some sort of control on the populace. Though it couldn't be anything too malicious or active, otherwise I'd see River acting a bit more crazy, like tossing all the food out the airlock.

I'm still trying to figure the significance of the blue gloves. Maybe they have some diseased agent they can spread by skin contact? Eh, that's just a wild theory with no supporting evidence, though. KF

~Kaiser Farooque

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Sunday, September 25, 2005 4:05 PM

THIEFJEHAT

Quote:
Originally posted by Kizyr:

Anyway, I'm not so sure about nanites in particular. It could be a number of things... drugs, microbes, chemical agents.

Yes I agree. A friend of mine who is a chemist suggested that blue sun food contains chemical free radicals that attach to nerve cells (brain and spinal column). Then when an outside stimulus is applied the poor host suffers an unwanted effect. A minor one could be that a person affected with these radicals would be susceptable to suggestion by someone able to trigger an effect. An extreme result would be a stimulus that causes death. And judging by the screams of the Alliance soldiers...an extremely painful death.

Do not fear me. Ours is a peaceful race, and we must live in harmony.

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Monday, September 26, 2005 2:33 AM

KIZYR

Quote:
Originally posted by thiefjehat:
Yes I agree. A friend of mine who is a chemist suggested that blue sun food contains chemical free radicals that attach to nerve cells (brain and spinal column).

Oh wow, so there's a realistic possibility of this and everything... I was getting the idea from the Thought Control government type in Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri; wasn't sure how much it applied here. KF

~Kaiser Farooque

ZOE: Preacher, don’t the Bible have some pretty specific things to say about killing?
BOOK: Quite specific. It is, however, somewhat fuzzier on the subject of kneecaps...

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Monday, September 26, 2005 5:38 AM

CITIZEN

Based on the high-pitched wail the Blue hands device emmits I had always assumed that it killed using sound. Setup a harmonic vibration in a persons body then they're going to liquify, blood shooting from the orifices and I imagine that it would be quite painfull. Add to that any one in range of the sound would be effected.
This of course would harm the operatives as well, but I imagine that there is ways around that.

I don't see the Blue Hands as telepaths though. In Ariel they don't know that the feds had spoken to the prisoners until they were told... couldn't they of read them if they were telepaths?

Blue Sun IMHO is definatly linked with what was done with River, but so is the goverment. That still fits in with the paradigm of Aliens tho. The corporation in Aliens is Wailand-Yutani (you don't really see it refrenced, if at all, except in the special edition). They have deep ties with the goverment. Getting colonial marines dispatched, for instance, plus theres a lot of canon and non-canon evidence to support that. Think the east india company and the British goverment last century, but even greater integration.

As for nanite, personally I don't see it. The only evidence to support it seems to be Rivers rant, and there are other explinations for that...
It is an eligant theory though, and I could be wrong...
It has been known to happen

.

Zen Buddhist to the Hotdog Vendor:
"Make me one with everything."

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Monday, September 26, 2005 10:28 AM

THIEFJEHAT

Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:
Think the east india company and the British goverment last century, but even greater integration.

It's interesting you wrote that because I have built an image of the political atmosphere of the Alliance as a reflection of the british government circa 1700.

In that time period you had the government(parlimnent) as the psudo-democratic ruling body. Then you had the King and the nobility and finally you had the strong influence of big business...the biggest of which was the East India Company.

In the Firefly 'verse I have found that the Alliance government fills the role of parliment. You also have all kinds of nobility including an actual king on the planet Londinum. Finally you have the influence of big business, the largest of which is Blue Sun.

In both models you find that the bodies of noble and corporate culture work hard to influence the controling government body. This is done to establish and maintain positions of control. Corruption is surely rife between the 3 controling bodies as bureaucrats, nobles, and business execs all play a game of power.

Do not fear me. Ours is a peaceful race, and we must live in harmony.

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Monday, September 26, 2005 11:10 AM

CITIZEN

It could also be a the current American system/culture taken to its logical extreme, with nobillity added to the mix. Most capatalist nations experience this to some degree or another...

I see the Alliance as a governing body that has become so interwind with big buissness that its almost indistinguishable. In fact I'd go as far to say that Blue Sun is so intergrated that goverment bodies may also be Blue Sun divisions.

Zen Buddhist to the Hotdog Vendor:
"Make me one with everything."

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Monday, September 26, 2005 12:24 PM

DIRTYBROWNCOAT

Quote:
Originally posted by Eleanor:
Wow, that nanite theory is really good...I wish I'd thought of that!

Regarding the comics:

Select to view spoiler:
Yeah, it was dissappointing how easily defeatable they were, after all that buildup. Issue #2 promised a "shocking revelation" in #3, but we really didn't learn anything about the HoB's...except that they're not just wearing gloves....

"Be very, very careful what you put into that head, because you will never, ever get it out." –Cardinal Wolsey

Actually, when I read that I assumed it was regarding one of the crew members, like maybe something about Book or Inara.

Select to view spoiler:

Maybe it was just the fact that Book left Serenity, and if that's the case that was a bogus blurb. A BB if you will.

Simon: You...you came for us.
Mal: You're on my crew.
Simon: Right. I guess I just didn't...you don't even like me.
Mal: You're on my crew. Why we still talking about this?
-Safe

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Monday, September 26, 2005 12:37 PM

KIZYR

Gotta remember that the Alliance is a mesh between American and Chinese government systems. So I can see a pretty fair amount of corporatism and authoritarianism, each sort of playing off against the other for a constant struggle of business versus government. Though, it's likely more complex than that, with business controlling or influencing aspects of government, while occasionally the control flows in the opposite direction.

Now, I'm still trying to figure where a revived nobility fits it. But, it seems to me that nobility arises most easily where there's a void in power that can be easily filled by moneyed folk--the Magistrate in Canton, or Atherton Wing or Warrick Harrow in Persephone (well, Persephone's kind of mid-way). But I'd wager that the more influential nobility also have a heavy hand in big business.

While we're on the subject of the British Empire, when I think of them and China, first thing that comes to mind is the Opium Wars. And all this talk on Blue Sun engineering agents to have some control on the populace is taking on an eerie similarity to what the Brits did. KF

~Kaiser Farooque

ZOE: Preacher, don’t the Bible have some pretty specific things to say about killing?
BOOK: Quite specific. It is, however, somewhat fuzzier on the subject of kneecaps...

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Monday, September 26, 2005 12:53 PM

THIEFJEHAT

Quote:
Originally posted by Kizyr:
it seems to me that nobility arises most easily where there's a void in power that can be easily filled by moneyed folk--the Magistrate in Canton, or Atherton Wing or Warrick Harrow in Persephone

I always figured the same thing. Mal reinforces it when he asks Simon if the girl in the box was destined for a "Border World Baron" The only thing that breaks the mold is the King of Londinum. Londinum and Sihnon are the 2 largest core worlds. Londinum is the anglo world and it apparently has a king based on Mals quip to Kaylee in the pilot.

Quote:
(well, Persephone's kind of mid-way).

My understanding of Persephone is that it's a Border-Core world. It's kind of a nexus of commerce to and from the core going to the rim. This is why you see developed buildings in the scene when Inara is taking off in her shuttle in the pilot. It's also why Simon was told by the folks who helped get River out of the Acadamy that they'd get her to Persephone and from there he could go wherever. Persephone is a jumping off point to any destination. It's also the perfect place for a slimeball like Badger to operate.

Do not fear me. Ours is a peaceful race, and we must live in harmony.

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Monday, September 26, 2005 1:28 PM

CITIZEN

The only actual evidence of nobility is on border worlds. There being a king of Londinium based on a single one liner is a bit of a stretch. I see Mal's quip as more of a flippant remark, along to lines of "and I'd like to be the king of the world", and there isn't a king of the world

.

The Brits in China is interesting, though. Theres a lot of parallels you can draw, Joss seems to see the Alliance as an America gone wrong, which is a big reason why I draw that comparision more than any other.

Zen Buddhist to the Hotdog Vendor:
"Make me one with everything."

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Wednesday, September 28, 2005 1:40 AM

KIZYR

Quote:
Originally posted by thiefjehat:
Mal reinforces it when he asks Simon if the girl in the box was destined for a "Border World Baron" The only thing that breaks the mold is the King of Londinum. Londinum and Sihnon are the 2 largest core worlds. Londinum is the anglo world and it apparently has a king based on Mals quip to Kaylee in the pilot.

I really got to go along Citizen's line of thought. When I heard that, it sounded like a joking line, sort of how when I say I'd like to be Emperor of the World or Lord of the Rings, or some such. Since the core worlds are all Alliance, I figure they have the same government / bureaucratic hierarchical structure all the way on down to the local levels. The semiperiphery and periphery is mostly where things get shaken up.

Quote:
Originally posted by thiefjehat:
My understanding of Persephone is that it's a Border-Core world. It's kind of a nexus of commerce to and from the core going to the rim. This is why you see developed buildings in the scene when Inara is taking off in her shuttle in the pilot.

I think that's why it's my favourite world so far. It has everything and, in a lot of ways, it's the closest to Earth-that-was. Well, except I don't think it's split up into rival nations and whatnot. KF

~Kaiser Farooque

ZOE: Preacher, don’t the Bible have some pretty specific things to say about killing?
BOOK: Quite specific. It is, however, somewhat fuzzier on the subject of kneecaps...

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Tuesday, October 18, 2005 1:45 AM

BLAENORWELL

I've also been of the opinion that Blue Sun is a Governement front, or a law-unto-itself, exactly like Weyland-Utani in Aliens.

If you look real close at the "CryBaby" in the pilot ep of the show, it is made from a Blue Sun coffee drum.

Add that to the other list of times Blue Sun products/adverts/tshirts we see and I cannot see how they could possibly NOT be plot related. Only person i'll accept an answer to the contrary from is the mighty Whedon himself...

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Tuesday, October 18, 2005 4:35 AM

GWEK

Still don't know who the HoB are exactly, but I think "Serenity" (the movie, not the pilot) sheds some light on Blue Sun.

I'm assuming that Blue Sun is responsible, in part, for what happened on Miranda. They're the folks who brought in the drugs.

My guess is that, had the show continued, we'd've continued to see River striking out at Blue Sun objects, which contain subliminal messages NOT nanites.

As an interesting sideline, note how similar some of River's rants are to the way Book ultimately describes the Operative.

Is it safe to assume that the Fruity Oaty Bar is manufactured by Blue Sun?

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Wednesday, October 26, 2005 1:27 PM

SEREYNA

Here's a thought:

Not nanites, but rather another attempt at getting the Pax (or some new variant on it) into the bodies of the masses. We all seem to generally agree that Blue Sun is the giant corporation that makes pretty much everything from food to medicine to technology. Perhaps they were considering another run at what was tried on Miranda.

But that's just my opinion.

/me shrugs

To hell with this! I'm gonna live!

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Wednesday, October 26, 2005 3:23 PM

GIANTEVILHEAD

Do they even have nanites in the Firefly 'verse? They probably have nanotechnology, we have nanotechnology, but nanites seem a bit too advanced. As for the HoB, I don't think they're telepaths, they've never displayed any telepathic or psychic abilities although it is possible that they are shielded from telepathic or psychic abilities.

"I swallowed a bug." -River Tam

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Friday, October 28, 2005 9:12 AM

JOYFULGIRL

I was really expecting to get more information about Blue Sun and the HoB in the movie, but that just leaves more to the sequels, right?!?! *praying so hard that the franchise option gets picked up!*

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