how did river get the gun? by est120

FIREFLY EPISODE DISCUSSIONS

how did river get the gun?

POSTED BY: EST120
UPDATED: Thursday, November 24, 2005 23:09
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Friday, November 18, 2005 12:41 AM

For River it is. If you have a ranged weapon and the fastest reactions (and maybe a good perception) distance is your friend. Also when it comes to an hand-to-hand fight someone counting on speed needs room to dodge.

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Friday, November 18, 2005 3:34 AM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by schooner:
Her statement, "it's just an object" may be her acknowledging to herself that this is not real, that she needs to bring herslef back.

That's what I was going for, but didn't have the time to get too deep into it. Thanks for expanding upon my idea-great minds think alike

Note: I SO love the music in that episode!!!

Chrisisall

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Friday, November 18, 2005 8:50 AM

REDREAVER

Quote:
Originally posted by schooner:

Part three, location, is why River ends up in the middle of the cargo bay. For river with a pistol, it is the most defensible location. She has an open space around her, and line of sight to all entrances. No low ceilings or vents for an enemy to drop from. Anyone wanting to get close would have to cross her line of fire to get to her.

you had me up 'til here

as you say, line of sight to all entrances...
problem - entrance=cover for any discerning enemy. whereas there's not so much cover in the hold.

next - assuming mutliple enemies, most defensable position is anywhere you can bottleneck them before they get to you, force them to come single file.
not an open cargo bay.

if her enemies happen to be armed as well as she is, the open space is her enemy. She's freely visable, making an excellent target. and any enemy will likely have more/better cover than she, plus an excellent vantage from which to fire on her.

finally...
her awareness is whacked. the crew had her surrounded before she snapped back to reality. If they'd been out to kill her, it likely would have gone down.

-----------------------------------

now all i need is a big gun and a "very fine hat"...

Reavers ate my homework

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Friday, November 18, 2005 1:27 PM

SCHOONER

RedReaver: I agree it seems counter-intuitive, but given River's abilities and programming (training, brainwashing, whatever...) and what she most likely knows about the situation, I think the cargo bay has advantages over other areas on the ship.

First, she is not assuming multiple opponents. She has heard one voice: Early's. She knows his presense and likely his objective (though not his methods). It is reasonable to assume that if she heard Early, she would pick up on anyone else with him. She has gone and checked out the rest of the crew to see if any of them are hiding something or are otherwise a part of it. She knows all the pieces on the board and where they are. She (more accurately, her subconscious tactical programming) is preparing for a threat from a single opponent.

Regarding cover: ask Mr. Niska how the interviews are going for new harger guards

. River has been shown to be an inhumanly precise marksman, cover doesn't seem to mean a lot to her. In addition, her senses appear to be extremely acute, to the point that she appears presentient. Given this, she would be aware of any movement, sound, or even smell (cordite?) around her. This sort of early detection means the enemy does not get the chance to get to cover or establish a good vantage. River knows where they are and is fast and accurate enough to react before he can.

The best way to 'take down' River is through surprise and deception, and having a lot of space around means alot of options and ways to react to the unexpected. Bottlenecks are good tactics in a straight fight, but if the opponent circumvents the bottleneck (pulling down a wall, coming up through a vent) or uses an area attack like gas or grenades, the bottleneck can become a trap. Also, less space to move in means the enemy can get closer, means less reaction time and in a surprise attack reaction is everything. Being in the cargo bay minimizes the change of being caught without time to react or a direction to move. If Early did have some unforseen tactic, like gas or robot drones, River would have plenty of escape routes available. One reason Early would actually be a danger to River is that his mind does not work the same way. He uses surprising tactics instinctively.

Also, remember the they are on a spaceship. A lot of places where gunplay could cause damage to vital systems and kill everyone. River would want to avoid this as introducing wild cards ito the mix. The cargo bay is one of the few areas that wold have no exposed systems, precisely because accidents would tend to happen there. It is the safest place for mayhem.

Finally, yes River's awareness is whacked. But we aren't talking about River planning any of this. This would be her tactical programming assessing the situation and coming up with a plan of action. This probably assumes a fully functioning River, functioning the way her creator's intended. This sort of emergency defense would be geared around self-preservation. If, for example, Early had taken Simon hostage and used him as a shield, River's program would have told her to shoot through him. The great thing is that River beats Early anyway, rising above what the Academy tried to turn her into. She comes up with a plan on her own that protects everyone, and even asks for help.

Thanks for listening to me ramble. Hope it helps a bit, or at least sparks more discussion.

Chrisisall: Thank you for thinking of it in the first place

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Friday, November 18, 2005 2:49 PM

GIANTEVILHEAD

I wonder if River's psychic abilities are enhanced when she's asleep. There's a lot of brain activity during REM sleep and all five senses are shut off during sleep, it could be a time when the mind is able to reach out. They were doing experiments on her while she was asleep.

"I swallowed a bug." -River Tam

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Saturday, November 19, 2005 7:49 AM

REDREAVER

i'm sure we could argue tactics 'til doomsday....

let's just say, i wouldn't choose the hold for my last stand.
and i still think River's running on the shady half of a bad program there... and lucky for the crew she is.

the other probable explanation is the cargo bay was empty, so Joss put here there. while the rest of the crew were otherwise occupiesd.
events leading up to the gun made it seem like she was looking for some "alone" space, and just kept getting tangled in other people's thoughts.

now all i need is a big gun and a "very fine hat"...

Reavers ate my homework

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Thursday, November 24, 2005 11:09 PM

GALENFLY

We can even see this as River's form of sleep walking. I'm sure there is little difference from River's dreams and her realities, both would be very broken and can even blend from one t'other. I don’t see the gun being left there as it is in the middle of the hold. Nothing around it (i.e I'll come back for it) and we know Mel and Inara are on the catwalk right above it (defiantly something Mal would notice).

I do think the gun went off though; either that or she actually cocked the gun, which would also create a noise loud enough for them to hear. We see all 4 of the crew (Inara and Mel from the catwalk and Simon and Kaylee from the infirmary) all come in at the same time. The reactions from the crew would be the same as if a 5 year old got a hold of a gun that everyone knew was loaded.

I like the idea of river wondering the ship (physically or metaphysically) and her stepping on the stick is her way of coming back to reality. From there on she is trying to understand her reality. Her way of comprehending what she is doing.

The cargo hold would be the ideal place for her to be if she already was detecting Erlie in some subconscious level. It is where the suits are located, later on we actually see the crate the suits in open and one if the helmets missing. Grabbing a gun walking to the crate with the suits to attack an outside aggressor would be logical, even if she "doesn’t comprehend". She could still sense Erlie, but now all the guns are locked up and so her plan has to change slightly. No available guns on Serenity but there is a nice bounty hunter that might have brought some. From there her plan can change as she gains access to Jubil’s ship.

Questions…questions…questions…the genius of Joss

"Curse you sudden but inevitable betrayal FOX"

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