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"Mal's politics are very reactionary and 'Big government is bad' and 'Don't interfere with my life,'" Whedon told the New York Times. "And sometimes he's wrong–because sometimes the Alliance is America, this beautiful shining light of democracy. But sometimes the Alliance is America in Vietnam: we have a lot of petty politics, we are way out of our league and we have no right to control these people. And yet! Sometimes the Alliance is America in Nazi Germany. And Mal can't see that, because he was a Vietnamese."

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Originally posted by PurpleBelly:
Whedon has suggested that sometimes the Alliance is like the US in Nazi Germany, sometimes like the US in Vietnam. I haven't heard a comparison made between the Alliance and the US in Iraqi, though one has been made between the fictional Browncoats and the people of Iraq - oh, that would be me

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"Mal's politics are very reactionary and 'Big government is bad' and 'Don't interfere with my life,'" Whedon told the New York Times. "And sometimes he's wrong–because sometimes the Alliance is America, this beautiful shining light of democracy. But sometimes the Alliance is America in Vietnam: we have a lot of petty politics, we are way out of our league and we have no right to control these people. And yet! Sometimes the Alliance is America in Nazi Germany. And Mal can't see that, because he was a Vietnamese."

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‘Economically the Alliance can be thought of as primarily mercantilist in nature, that is to say it is capitalist but without the notion of free trade or much in the way of state restrictions on monopolies’ Steven began. ‘In many ways it can be seen as a parallel to the situation within the gradually emerging economic situation during the 18th Century in that large companies formed to take advantage of the new colonial enterprises and whilst society was gradually industrialising in some areas agriculture still dominated the lives of many.’

The academic started pacing up and down as was his habit when teaching. ‘You can take the comparison further’ he said. ‘To give an example, during this time period on Earth-That-Was there was a private colonial concern known as the “East India Company” which was set up on the Indian Sub-Continent. Originally it was just a business but over the years it expanded its interests and eventually operated its own army both to protect these interests and expand them still further.’

‘In the end the British government and the East India Company became so entwined that it was hard to distinguish where one began and the other ended. Business turned to informal Empire and eventually outright annexation of territory.’ Steven said. ‘In a similar way the big terraforming companies and conglomerates of today were originally just private concerns but as they expanded outwards to develop new worlds the line was blurred between their perceived interests and those of the state.’

‘The Alliance bankrolled a number of these ventures through loans. It also lent troops to protect its investments. As the state became more and more involved in these private ventures the conglomerates similarly became more and more wrapped up in the state especially given the number of formally state-run sectors that were either privatised outright or contracted out such as communications.’

‘Money of course is another factor. Many politicians were either bought outright or else persuaded into voting one way or the other by well funded lobbyists with corporate backing.’

‘As the dividing line between the conglomerates and the government faded it was inevitable that it the end the needs of business would far outweigh the needs of the people, or indeed capitalism itself’. Steven paused to take a drink. ‘As they developed some of the outer planets had begun to industrialise and although such competition is actually beneficial to the economy as a whole it was bad news to the established firms in the core which fought back by persuading the government to introduce the diabolical tariff system we have to put up with now.’

‘Ironically this suppression of competition is one reason why the vastly outmatched Independent industrial base kept us going so long. Many of the core factories insulated from competition were highly inefficient and bureaucratic by comparison to the newer more dynamic enterprises on the rim. They had many times the industrial potential but nowhere near the individual productivity per worker which is one reason why all those gleaming core metropolises didn’t crush the Browncoats instantly under a tidal wave of logistics like they really should have.’

‘The other reasons were of course down to frequently poor tactical doctrine and a thorough lack of intestinal fortitude.’ Steven continued.

‘A lack of what did you say?’ Claire-Marie asked.

‘Intestinal fortitude’ Steven repeated. ‘Otherwise known as guts’ he continued smiling and slapping his stomach. ‘The bellies may have been purple on the outside but they were often yellow underneath’ he joked. ‘You can’t take some poor core draftee who’s lived a nice comfortable life for eighteen years drop him off in the middle of nowhere with a rifle and expect him to fight as hard as someone who is on their home-turf, who’s been hunting for food for much of their life and who has a much better grasp on why they’re actually fighting in the first place.’

The academic smiled again. ‘This reminds me of the old joke. An Ally and a Browncoat are lying together in a ditch wounded after a battle. The Browncoat asks the Ally why he’s fighting and the Ally says to unify the worlds under one government for the greater good. The Ally asks the same question to which the Browncoat replies…’

‘Because you’re down here’ Mal interrupted finishing the story. ‘Abstract ideals don’t mean squat next to knowing you’re fighting for your own land and your own kind.’

‘Too true, but in any case I digress’. ‘Another historical parallel with the 18th Century is the use of indentured servitude, and often outright slavery, across the inhabited worlds with little effort or motivation by the government to eradicate it.’

‘For the most part such things were abolished on Earth-That-Was six centuries ago but like a foul reminder of a bygone age it returned along with the subsistence farming communities of the rim and the forced-labour camps we often find employed during terraforming operations.’

Steven shook his head sadly. ‘Another product of the illiberal corporate Oligarchy of our times is the resurrection in many places of an actual aristocracy which again demonstrates a regression in our political situation and is a visual demonstration of how wide the gap is between the obscenely wealthy and the rest of us.’

‘A whattyarchy?’ Wash asked loudly. It looked like everyone had decided to turn up to listen in on today’s class.

‘Oligarchy’ Cally answered before her father could. ‘A government in which the power is within the hands of a small group not the many. In the case of the Alliance it’s the higher echelons of the military, the secret service, big business and certain politicians.’ She paused. ‘It’s not really a tyranny because power doesn’t wholly reside with one man or group not can it be called a Democracy by any stretch of the imagination.’

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The Alliance is more concerned about unification of humanity and less concerned about human rights. Concepts like slavery, aristocracy, and unregulated capitalism flurish in the Alliance. In such political systems there are always going to be more unfortunates than fortunates. In general, it's a recipe for a revolution by those abused and oppressed (rim worlders).

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Originally posted by hobomagic:
I hate to be picky, but large monopolistic corporations are almost always creations of government regulations, not the results of unrestrained capitalism.

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Together we will stop the signal.

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Originally posted by hobomagic:


I hate to be picky, but large monopolistic corporations are almost always creations of government regulations, not the results of unrestrained capitalism.

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Originally posted by FarscapePKWars:
But what are the Alliance really about, sometimes it looks as if they are not too bad, they are a bit mean but other people within seem to live comfortable lives like Simon/River's family did.

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Other times the Alliance look like a regime of conquest maybe a little like those giant Spanish/European ships that went to S.America for exploration and colonisation. However the Alliance sometimes look very bad, like a scary Totalitarian Nazi leadership, Alliance have little forgiveness and understanding.But are things better in other worlds, more democratic... at the same time in other episodes they don't look so brutal, are they Soviets or Imperial-Capitalists, is hierarchy important ?

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Originally posted by FarscapePKWars:
But what are the Alliance really about, sometimes it looks as if they are not too bad, they are a bit mean but other people within seem to live comfortable lives like Simon/River's family did.

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Originally posted by FarscapePKWars:
However the Alliance sometimes look very bad, like a scary Totalitarian Nazi leadership...

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Originally posted by Astragynia:
It always seemed clear to me that the Rim planets are like third-world countries in our world today, and the Core planets are the wealthy, Western countries.

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Originally posted by gtman8503:

And as for the Alliance, to me, it's a socialist-fascist police state, the big government of today taken further into the future (with China's socialism splashed in). Full of regulations and social programs that are supposed to "help" people, but actually wind up getting in the way (i.e., social security, welfare, medicare, etc.). It's a classic example of the government attempting to socially engineer the "ideal" society instead of serving the society which created it in the first place.

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Originally posted by gtman8503:

I assume that the Alliance is a Socialist-Fascist Police State, and the "Independent" movement was made up primarily of conservative-liberterians. This also seems to make sense based on what we've seen of the rural culture of the Rim planets as opposed to the metropolitan Central planets

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Originally posted by gtman8503:

"Blue Sun" also fits into this idea because large monopolies tend to be the result of government overregulation instead of rampant capitalism, as someone argued above.

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Originally posted by gtman8503:

As for that FOX News reference above, as a conservative, I'd just like to say that FOX is the news source of the Independents. CNN, MSNBC, PBS, ABC, NBC, CBS, NYTIMES, LATIMES, REUTERS, BBC, etc. ,etc. all voice the opinions of Blue Sun and the Great and Mighty Alliance (aka, UN).

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Originally posted by Hotpoint:
... Fox News is clearly the voice of the Alliance. The Independents would much rather trust the BBC ...

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Originally posted by PurpleBelly:
Perhaps the funding for the BBC is different over the border. (Seagulls weren't relegated!)
IMHO:
Fox News is the voice of Blue Sun. The BBC is funded by the Government, directly in the case of the World Service, by way of a Governmant determined licence-fee for TV reception in the case of internal services.

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In addition there is no evidence that the Alliance provides universal free medical care to its citizens, and indeed the fact that medicine is so expensive and Jayne has to help out his family because "Matty has the Damp-Lung" would indicate that in reality the Alliance is certainly not providing socialised healthcare to its people. At least to that extent the Alliance is small-government.

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Originally posted by gtman8503:
It doesn't have to be socialized medicine. It could be some sort of social program like medicare or medicaid (Which I find equally distateful).

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Originally posted by gtman8503:

Also, I assumed that Jayne's family lives out on the rim, where the Alliance hasn't spread yet and they don't have all the conveniences (inconveniences) that the Alliance provieds.

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Originally posted by gtman8503:

We just seem to have different opinions of "Big Government". IMO, Social Security, Medicare, Welfare, etc., etc., are "Big Government" programs that border on socialism that we should get rid of. Any government program that takes independence away from it's citizens and puts it into the hands of bureaucrats is, imo, socialist. And, as socialism always does, it leads to a slave state where the people are dependent on the government.

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Originally posted by Hotpoint:
... in the traditions of state-controlled media...

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Originally posted by Hotpoint:


In short Alliance = Bad

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Originally posted by gtman8503:
I've always viewed the Alliance in terms of American history, particularly the Civil War and Western expansion…

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Originally posted by gtman8503:
The nature of the Alliance doesn't matter to the overall story. To quote Jeff Tweedy, "Your Heaven looks just like my Hell." The Alliance's vague definition keeps people from forcing their political beliefs onto anyone else, and allows the show to transcend politics.

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"Blue Sun" also fits into this idea because large monopolies tend to be the result of government overregulation instead of rampant capitalism, as someone argued above.

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Originally posted by gtman8503:

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Originally posted by Hotpoint:


In short Alliance = Bad

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Yep, we agree!




Your Heaven looks just like my Hell
--Uncle Tupelo, Still Feel Gone, Cold Shoulder

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The true face of the Alliance...



Sorry, could not resist.

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Originally posted by Astragynia:
It's been made very clear that the Alliance has no practice of equal human rights - they treat people completely differently depending on whether they're Core or Rim, have an ident card like Book's or not, and probably whether they're rich or poor (Simon's father getting him out of jail so relatively easily). (We don't even know that Mal and crew are even considered citizens; citizenship could be an elite privilege, like in the Roman Empire). Equality and freedom are primary values of both liberals and conservatives in the world today.

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By the way, do we even know that Blue Sun is actually a monopoly?

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Originally posted by Fletch2:
I think they settled the same solar system because that was the only one they could get to. Unless the 'Verse has some whiz bang warp drive style tech we're just not seeing just getting to stars in our neighbourhood would take them generations. It could be that there was only one practical system in range.

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I'm thinking that the Alliance is a relatively new event that happened after they got here. We see that some worlds are primarily chinese and some primarily western. If they were together when they left why not settle together when they got there?

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