the episode order list by tudyksgagreel

FIREFLY EPISODE DISCUSSIONS

the episode order list

POSTED BY: TUDYKSGAGREEL
UPDATED: Monday, December 29, 2003 10:16
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Thursday, October 2, 2003 11:36 PM

Is it just me or am i the only person to notice the right episode order for firefly, everyone thinks HEART OF GOLD was the fourth last episode in the running order but anyone who has seen this episode must surely realise it is in fact the last episode in the firefly roster.
Joss Whedon himself gave the correct episode running order to the sci fi channel in the uk and it ran it second last. this was because of the way the episode finishes and they wanted to finish it with an episode with a sense of finality thats why they finished with O.I.S.
Further proof of H.O.G. being the last episode is the fact that in the 'previously on' section they show parts of O.I.S Trash and the message so these obviously precede the episode, did no-one notice this?

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Friday, October 3, 2003 12:54 AM

LJC

whooops, double post...

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Friday, October 3, 2003 12:55 AM

LJC

Actually, it's neither. Here's the production order:

"Serenity"
1AGE00
Writer: Joss Whedon
Director: Joss Whedon
Airdate: 12/20/02

"The Train Job"
1AGE01
Writers: Joss Whedon & Tim Minear
Director: Joss Whedon
Airdate: 9/20/02

"Bushwhacked"
1AGE02
Writer: Tim Minear
Director: Tim Minear
Airdate: 9/27/02

"Shindig"
1AGE03
Writer: Jane Espenson
Director: Vern Gillum
Airdate: 11/1/02

"Safe"
1AGE04
Writer: Drew Z. Greenberg
Director: Michael Grossman
Airdate: 11/8/02

"Our Mrs. Reynolds"
1AGE05
Writer: Joss Whedon
Director: Vondie Curtis Hall
Airdate: 10/4/02

"Jaynestown"
1AGE06
Writer: Ben Edlund
Director: Marita Grabiak
Airdate: 10/18/02

"Out of Gas"
1AGE07
Writer: Tim Minear
Director: David Solomon
Airdate: 10/25/02

"Ariel"
1AGE08
Writer: Jose Molina
Director: Alan Kroaker
Airdate: 11/15/02

"War Stories"
1AGE09
Writer: Cheryl Cain
Director: Jim Contner
Airdate: 12/6/02

"Heart of Gold"
1AGE10
Writer: Brett Matthews
Director: Tom Wright
Airdate: ??

"Objects in Space"
1AGE11
Writer: Joss Whedon
Director: Joss Whedon
Airdate: 12/13/02

"Trash"
1AGE12
Writer: Ben Edlund & Jose Molina
Director: Vern Gillum
Airdate: ??

"The Message"
1AGE13
Writer: Joss Whedon & Tim Minear
Director: Tim Minear
Airdate: ??

And here is the as-yet unconfirmed DVD order, via TIm Minear:

"Serenity"
1AGE00
Writer: Joss Whedon
Director: Joss Whedon
Airdate: 12/20/02

"The Train Job"
1AGE01
Writers: Joss Whedon & Tim Minear
Director: Joss Whedon
Airdate: 9/20/02

"Bushwhacked"
1AGE02
Writer: Tim Minear
Director: Tim Minear
Airdate: 9/27/02

"Shindig"
1AGE03
Writer: Jane Espenson
Director: Vern Gillum
Airdate: 11/1/02

"Safe"
1AGE04
Writer: Drew Z. Greenberg
Director: Michael Grossman
Airdate: 11/8/02

"Our Mrs. Reynolds"
1AGE05
Writer: Joss Whedon
Director: Vondie Curtis Hall
Airdate: 10/4/02

"Jaynestown"
1AGE06
Writer: Ben Edlund
Director: Marita Grabiak
Airdate: 10/18/02

"Out of Gas"
1AGE07
Writer: Tim Minear
Director: David Solomon
Airdate: 10/25/02

"Ariel"
1AGE08
Writer: Jose Molina
Director: Alan Kroaker
Airdate: 11/15/02

"War Stories"
1AGE09
Writer: Cheryl Cain
Director: Jim Contner
Airdate: 12/6/02

"Trash"
1AGE12
Writer: Ben Edlund & Jose Molina
Director: Vern Gillum
Airdate: ??

"The Message"
1AGE13
Writer: Joss Whedon & Tim Minear
Director: Tim Minear
Airdate: ??

"Heart of Gold"
1AGE10
Writer: Brett Matthews
Director: Tom Wright
Airdate: ??

"Objects in Space"
1AGE11
Writer: Joss Whedon
Director: Joss Whedon
Airdate: 12/13/02

However, airing "Objects in Space" last doesn't actually make sense--not with Jayne's comment about River being a "mind-reading genius" in "The Message." Likewise, "Heart of Gold" needs to come before "The Message" as well--because it makes no sense at all for Kaylee to be complaining about SImon not making a move if he HAS made one...

So I actually tell everyone to watch in production order, because otherwise, the last 3rd of the show doesn't actually make any kind of sense.

--
Some take the high road. Some take the low road.
And some just go screaming down the highway, dropping flaming bits of wreckage.

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Friday, October 3, 2003 2:58 AM

STILLSHINY

I seem to recall hearing that there would be some modifications to some of the scenes, when they were released for the DVD. Beyond just the episode order. Just something I thought I heard, or read somewhere.

Mal: “See how I'm not punching him? I think I've grown!”

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Friday, October 3, 2003 5:10 AM

SERGEANTX

I still think the order Minear indicated makes perfect sense with only the minor editing promised to OIS.

So many of our perceptions of the 'meanings' of various lines and scenes are colored by the fact that we've already seen them out of order. For example, Jayne's comment about River in The Message could easily be taken as a general lighthearted ribbing about her genius status - like referring to someone as a 'rocket scientist' or a 'wizard'. Thus making it all the more surprising to him in Objects in Space when she turns out to be exactly what he was kidding her about.

It seems likely that explanatory dialog concerning the end of Heart of Gold was edited out of Objects in Space (probably the scene with Inara wondering "why I haven't left already") since HOG was never aired. Tim Minear has indicated this will be corrected on the DVD.

The 'previously seen on' section at the beginning of Heart of Gold does contain a short clip from Objects in Space, but I'm guessing this was included assuming it would air after Objects in Space (Fox initially said they would air the three remaining episodes).

As far as Kaylee complaining about Simon not hitting on her in Heart of Gold, I don't think she'd see any of Simon's feeble advances thus far as serious attempts to win her.

I really don't think any of these issues would be considered seriously if the order hadn't been called into question in the first place.

SergeantX

"..and here's to all the dreamers, may our open hearts find rest." -- Nanci Griffith

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Friday, October 3, 2003 6:26 AM

TUDYKSGAGREEL

i agree with you on the fact that kaylee never noticed simon comin on to her because when he does so in the message she takes offence thus negating any action taken by simon. However the idea of jayne calling river a mind reading genious by chance is utter nonsense, jayne barely has a brain, but thats why we love him so. Also in the message river joke that she could kill jayne with her brain, which he is a little scared by, so therefore he already knows the truth and therefore this episode comes after o.i.s. and h.o.g. definately comes after it so therefore heart of gold must be the last episode, i wouldnt be suprised if it meant to after 'dead or alive' aswell as inara shows her talent as nurse in h.o.g. a talent she must have gotten from d.o.a.

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Friday, October 3, 2003 6:26 AM

TUDYKSGAGREEL

sorry computer problem

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Friday, October 3, 2003 6:26 AM

TUDYKSGAGREEL

sorry computer problem

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Friday, October 3, 2003 6:27 AM

TUDYKSGAGREEL

sorry computer problem

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Friday, October 3, 2003 6:27 AM

TUDYKSGAGREEL

sorry computer problem

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Friday, October 3, 2003 6:28 AM

TUDYKSGAGREEL

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Friday, October 3, 2003 6:28 AM

TUDYKSGAGREEL

sorry computer problem

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Friday, October 3, 2003 6:31 AM

TUDYKSGAGREEL

sorry computer problem

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Friday, October 3, 2003 6:33 AM

TUDYKSGAGREEL

sorry computer problem

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Friday, October 3, 2003 7:08 AM

BARNEYT

Quote:
Originally posted by tudyksgagreel:
i agree with you on the fact that kaylee never noticed simon comin on to her because when he does so in the message she takes offence thus negating any action taken by simon. However the idea of jayne calling river a mind reading genious by chance is utter nonsense, jayne barely has a brain, but thats why we love him so. Also in the message river joke that she could kill jayne with her brain, which he is a little scared by, so therefore he already knows the truth and therefore this episode comes after o.i.s. and h.o.g. definately comes after it so therefore heart of gold must be the last episode, i wouldnt be suprised if it meant to after 'dead or alive' aswell as inara shows her talent as nurse in h.o.g. a talent she must have gotten from d.o.a.

For Jayne's reactions, bear in mind that he was with River and Simon in the hospital in Ariel where Simon was seeing all the strange things that had been done to River's brain. Also in the episode where River and Simon get kidnapped (can't remember the title) - the reason River is almost burned at the stake is because she reads minds, and it's not beyond the bounds of possibiliy that this would have been discussed aboard ship.

Plus as the good Sarge points out, there were edits done to make the episodes shown in the U.S. fit even though three were missing. The DVD will be the first time any of us see the series as they meant it to be, I guess. (and I'm looking forward to it!

)

---
"I think the right place to start is to say, fair is fair. This is who we are. These are our numbers." Mr Willis of Ohio - The West Wing

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Friday, October 3, 2003 9:06 AM

TUDYKSGAGREEL

jayne knowing what hes looking at when hes lookin at rivers brain is like a monkey reading latin, and just cos river was bein burned at the stake doesnt mean the crew no why it would seem like river and simon would prefer to hide that it was because of visions, and it probably wasnt discussed on board as the crew seem suprised when its brought up in o.i.s. And also i saw all the episodes from the sci fi channel in the uk and it did the full run so the cuts which you are referring to did not appear.

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Friday, October 17, 2003 7:07 AM

Well us Brits saw all the episodes on Sci-Fi in the DVD order, and that order was the one endorsed by Mr Whedon himself. I don't know if he fiddled the order so there'd be some finality to the last episode, a bit of resolution or what-have-you. I doubt it, though, it doesn't sound like something he'd do.

JK

"Were there monkeys? Some terrifying space monkeys maybe got loose?"

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Friday, October 17, 2003 10:58 AM

MANIACNUMBERONE

You must have forgotten about Ariel. Jayne has a spectacular opportunity to understand River's genius mind-reading abilities during that episode. Rewatch and enjoy!

By the way, the order with OIS being last is the only order that makes sense to me.

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Friday, October 24, 2003 7:50 PM

CALDEEN

The only way I can see OIS as last, with minor editing is if they make it a flashback. They come around a corner and see Jubal, or someting along those lines. Minor editing could have been meant sarcasticly though. They could just move the whole series of scenes where Kaylee comes forward, and the conversation about River to another eppisode. That would make even less sense though.

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Tuesday, November 18, 2003 11:30 AM

PRENTIP

So with all that said, is the DVD order wrong? I've never seen the last 3 episodes and I don't want to watch them out of order when I watch the DVDs? I might not even buy them if they didn't take the time to put them in a sensible order.
(It looks like they did it with the first two episodes also. Switching Serenity and with Trainrobbery).
Someone let me know the truth of the matter.

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Saturday, December 6, 2003 8:46 PM

SAMUS

I'm beginning to think we may never get a definitive answer on this. I have heard that the UK order was Joss-endorsed, but I have also heard that that was just a rumour.

I think the DVD airs in the UK order, yes?

At any rate, I can accept the DVD order just fine.

As for Jayne, I agree that Ariel might have been enough for him to conclude that there was something weird about River - enough for him to mention it in The Message anyway.

That whole exchange between River and Jayne in Ariel - her talking about Christmas and getting a lump of coal seemed to me to be a direct comment on his thinking he is getting a reward but getting arrested instead.

I can "buy" the DVD order. Because one thing we might want to consider is that the order may have been different if the season had a full 22 episode run. But, given that it was cut short, the producers may have decided to rearrange what they had into a slighty different order.

I just plan to shrug it off and enjoy the dvds.

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Saturday, December 6, 2003 10:45 PM

LORA

Quote:
I just plan to shrug it off and enjoy the DVDs.

"Is there any way I'm gonna get out of this with honor and dignity?"

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Sunday, December 7, 2003 8:54 AM

INVISIBLEGREEN

You guys, I'm pretty sure "Heart of Gold" takes place between "Serenity, Part 1" and "Serenity, Part 2." I mean, look at all the evidence.

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Sunday, December 7, 2003 11:13 AM

WHOODAHN

Quote:
Originally posted by InvisibleGreen:
You guys, I'm pretty sure "Heart of Gold" takes place between "Serenity, Part 1" and "Serenity, Part 2." I mean, look at all the evidence.

I'm pretty sure all the rest of the shows take place somewhere between the first show and the last show.

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Saturday, December 20, 2003 9:25 PM

ZACHSMIND

The Message is personally my last episode. This is from both a storytelling standpoint and a more literal performance standpoint.

From a story standpoint, all the characters are in one way or another at a stopping point. River still appears to be a bit off, but she's functional and even able to interact comfortably with the gang off ship. Finding her ice planet to be problematic and calling her brother a boob. She's at a comfy stopping place, should the show ever start again. The cryptic back history of Shepherd Book left indefinitely uncertain, he'll still pose as a shepherd and dispense his own brand of homespun wisdom with the crew. Zoe is still a stoic rock. Wash is still a Xander-esque little Zeppo. Mal's still a man haunted by the past but trying to learn to appreciate the present. Kaylee's still a glass is half full kinda gal. Jayne is still a pain in the backside. Simon's still... Simon. All the characters are in a sort of archetypal holding pattern. They're left as we will remember them.

Alan (Wash) admits in the audio commentary that it was the last one they filmed. That they absolutely knew the show had been irrevocably cancelled as they were filming that week. So when that music plays at the end and they bring their war buddy's body out to his family, and Nathon Fillion looks directly into the camera in that disturbing sidewize glance? You know they're saying goodbye. It's a defiant sadness, and yet a proud stance that is taken. They did the best they could to get where they were going, walking crawling or carrying one another, and it wasn't enough. Problem during shipping. The show got humped.

In The Message, it was like the cast and crew were saying goodbye to us fans. So for me, that will always be the last one in the series. Now, whether Objects In Space or Heart Of Gold happened just before The Message, I've no idea.

Dun rahghtly kerr ah reckon.

"You don't fix faith, River. It fixes you."

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Sunday, December 21, 2003 10:31 AM

CALHOUN

Agreed! Watchin the extras on the DVD,s and seeing that The Message was the last filmed and that they all knew it was over gives it much more emotional impact for me. I near had tears in my eyes watchin this Ep again.

But gettin to Heart of Gold, yes I agree with the first post. It never made sense to me to have Inara saying she was leaving and then still be there in the next Ep.

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Sunday, December 21, 2003 3:45 PM

ZACHSMIND

Okay. So. Well the order could possibly be Heart of Gold, then Objects In Space, and then The Message. Upon consideration I think this works out the best.

There is a scene in Objects In Space where it appears Mal & Inara are talking about her making preliminary steps to leave and Mal's kinda talking her out of it. Actually, there's a deleted version of that scene which is more in your face about Inara's leaving. Somewhere in the audio commentary, Joss was talking about how he didn't really want Inara to leave. It was perhaps one of the last ditch efforts to save the show, that some network suit may have indicated if they dropped the whore from the show it could last a little longer, but Whedon didn't really want to write Inara out of the series.

Soon after they discover the dead body in The Message, Mal makes a point to apologize to Inara, something he rarely does, about how this may distrupt her plans, and Inara immediately assures him it's okay, that she understands the circumstances and stands behind the decision to take the kid's dead body to his home.

So had there been an episode immediately AFTER The Message, the events would have to have dealt with Inara's decision to leave. That one way or another it would have to be addressed, but that these two episodes can be seen to make some level of sense despite it. Perhaps another argument with Inara and Mal, where she explains her patience has been cordial up until now but she can't wait any longer.

However, it is quite possible we'll be debating this issue over and over for years, kinda like how theologians can't all agree on religious doctrine.

"You don't fix faith, River. It fixes you."

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Monday, December 29, 2003 9:58 AM

SGTRAUKSAUFF

Well being bored, and hearing good things of the series, I bought the DVD set the other day, Saturday to be exact, and then went home and watched it. All of it. I couldn't stop myself. It was a great show. I think the order that I watched it in fit very well. I'm gonna have to go back and watch it again, in less of a frenzied pace to get more of the story... .

so, yeah, I think the DVD order is just fine. :)

See the man with the Big Gun hanging out of the Spaceship?

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Monday, December 29, 2003 10:16 AM

SHINY

Quote:
Originally posted by ZachsMind:
Okay. So. Well the order could possibly be Heart of Gold, then Objects In Space, and then The Message. Upon consideration I think this works out the best.

The only minor problem with that is The Message begins with all the talk about trying to fence the Lassiter (and later the crew originally thinking the cops were after them because of that theft) and it's a little late if there has been two episodes in between The Message and Trash, when they stole it. I personally think the DVD order is fine, except for the small inconsistency of Jayne's teasing River about being a mind-reading genius (which he delivers like he has really accepted it and has now progressed to making fun of her about it) while reacting in such a surprised manner to hearing she can read minds in Object in Space.

Quote:
Originally posted by ZachsMind:

There is a scene in Objects In Space where it appears Mal & Inara are talking about her making preliminary steps to leave and Mal's kinda talking her out of it. Actually, there's a deleted version of that scene which is more in your face about Inara's leaving.

Actually, it's the other way around. The DVD episode of Objects includes the explicit discussion of Inara's leaving and Mal asking her when she will tell the rest of the crew. They also have an awkward moment at the end outside the infirmary when he touches her lip (where Early hit her) and she turns away. The deleted scene was the version that actually aired: since Heart of Gold was not aired before it, they had to change that scene to the usual "you're not visiting civilized worlds where I can do my whoring" argument

RIVER
Purple elephants are flying.
MAL
Good. Thanks for the update.

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