the real shepard book by tudyksgagreel

FIREFLY EPISODE DISCUSSIONS

the real shepard book

POSTED BY: TUDYKSGAGREEL
UPDATED: Wednesday, October 27, 2004 06:11
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VIEWED: 20039
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Friday, October 3, 2003 10:09 AM

does anyone have any theorys on the true story of books past. Is he really a shepard? Jubal Early says hes not and he seems to have an alliance designation (as seen in SAFE), seeing as he was originally signed for 10 episodes maybe they had a twist planned with his character that they delayed due to his likeability. I believe he has a very dark secret, he couldnt know all the things he does bein a shepard.
Any Theorys?

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Friday, October 3, 2003 11:30 AM

LUNATIKAT

Yeah, I think a lot about Book. Since part of what I'd like to see in the series-long story arc would be Mal and Serenity/Crew orbiting ever more closely an active anti-Alliance underground, sucked back into political/military life against their will, my fantasy about Book is that his monastery was secretly active during the war (against the Alliance, of course)and that it still shelters some Very Important People and that Book has skills, connections and secrets we cannot begin to guess at.

It seems to me that the root conflict for this series is that old individual vs. society conflict and from other folks' posts I see I'm not the only one to focus on this. One of the eternal conflicts, since it can never be settled one way or the other, but must, by the very nature of human beings as social individuals, always be settled somewhere between the societies of bees and bears, and always only temporarily.

So, on Serenity this is played out in the small captain vs. crew ways, in the sky in Rebels vs. Alliance ways, and in the stories we have the glorious dramatic freedom to explore this conflict with our choice of background cultures, technologies, styles et cetera. Everyone on Serenity must grapple with this conflict not only in the ways personal to their individual character but also in ways that reflect the major forces in human lives. Zoe and Wash showcase concerns of those who are beginning new families, Simon and River on the simplest level demonstrate the horrors of recovering from abandonment and abuse, Kaylee and Simon experience the travels towards love, Jane the journey to loyalty over self-interest, Inara the career person trying to find a place for a personal life while maintaining a commitment to one's chosen work, and of course in Book we seek to live a religious/spiritual life of love and peace in a secular world of strife and violence.

Lunatikat- you can't win, you can't break even, you can't even get out of the game

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Friday, October 3, 2003 11:37 AM

LUNATIKAT

Sorry, forgot Mal, that guy (women too) who wants to be independent and free but always winds up with others to take care of (and be tied down by).

Lunatikat - somewhere over the madness horizon and accelerating

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Friday, October 3, 2003 12:18 PM

LINDYCAT

I have several theories on what kind of past Book might have had.

1. May be in witness protection. He could be a criminal in witness protection who had some training at the abby to establish the cover. Though it would seem like he should be watched a bit more.

2. May be an undercover agent. He may be a deep cover agent for some alliance agency who doesnt really care about River and Simon (he has a more improtant mission). Seems to cover all the bases and this is the theory I place most faith in.

3. May be a Blue Sun spy. He could be following River and Simon to observe how River does on exposure to the outside and her transition from the experiments to real life. Seems a bit flawed in the timing of taking passage on Serenity, but he may be a reader too, or knew where Simon would go. This also assumes Blue Sun was the company that experimented on River.

4. He could be retired alliance who got religion, he may honestly be trying to be a shepard.

5. He may be a combo of 2 & 3 watching River for the alliance or Blue Sun when the other was the initiator of the experinment.

Just what I have been thinking.

LC

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Friday, October 3, 2003 12:36 PM

CHANNAIN

i DO aim to misbehave

Safe to say he wasn't always a shephard. Looked to me like he boarded before Simon though, so I don't think he's after the Tam's in particular. I'm not even sure he's working for the Alliance either, although his name is known to them - whatever his name is on his ident card. Just because he's "called Book" doesn't mean that's his real name, now does it?

I'm going with the retired Alliance who found religion option. A man in conflict with his past, trying to find his way and letting his faith guide him. He's a seeker.

John Newton, author of the first four stanzas of "Amazing Grace" was the captain of a slave trade vessel once upon a time. It's said he had an epiphany in the midst of his chosen profession and found his faith during a violent storm aboard ship when it looked like he might be lost at sea. Could be something of the like happened to Book, turning him to that different path. Could be part of his walking the world awhile was to find out whether his own epiphany was the real deal or just a moment in time.

Can't say I have a solid theory on that moment in OiS when River heard Book's thoughts "I don't give a damn whether you're innocent or not. How does that make you feel?" I'm one of them that believes River's presence in the room with Book and Jayne at the time was her astral projection. In light of that, there's no telling who Book really had in mind. He may even know something about Jayne that nobody else does.

Book's true motivation is only one of many things I would have liked to learn with this series.

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Friday, October 3, 2003 4:49 PM

EMBASSY

Quote:
Originally posted by Channain:

Can't say I have a solid theory on that moment in OiS when River heard Book's thoughts "I don't give a damn whether you're innocent or not. How does that make you feel?" I'm one of them that believes River's presence in the room with Book and Jayne at the time was her astral projection. In light of that, there's no telling who Book really had in mind. He may even know something about Jayne that nobody else does.

Book's true motivation is only one of many things I would have liked to learn with this series.

This is the problematic line that I don't have a good answer for either. I'm in general firmly of the belief that Book was formerly a senior law enforcement guy, not alliance military, but a cop. But this line isn't consistent with that so I'm still puzzled. Which, of course, makes it interesting to think about.

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Friday, October 3, 2003 7:00 PM

JAHZARA

I have this uncanny ability to guess story arcs. Well, I guess its not that unusual, considering how simple TV usually is...

But anyway, one of the reasons I love Firefly is because I have absolutely no idea what his deal is. None.

Oh, this show rules!

I think everything focusing Book is pretty much archived in this one music video.

I don't how to link, but its Succatash's page.
strangefinger.com. Go to TV/Movies, click on firefly fans.

It rocks.

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Friday, October 3, 2003 7:06 PM

VETERAN

Don't squat with your spurs on.

Quote:
But this line isn't consistent with that so I'm still puzzled. Which, of course, makes it interesting to think about.

Why not? It sounds like "Good Cop/Bad Cop" interrogation.

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Friday, October 3, 2003 7:59 PM

11THHOUR

Quote:
Originally posted by Embassy:
This is the problematic line that I don't have a good answer for either. I'm in general firmly of the belief that Book was formerly a senior law enforcement guy, not alliance military, but a cop. ...

Of COURSE he was a cop.

Just checkout the TV Land network and see "Barney Miller"!

Mystery solved...

not.

11thHour

_________________________________________________________

~ "Every frame of this movie looks like someone's last known photograph." Joel Hodgson - MST3K

~ "Religion is for people who are afraid of Hell. Spirituality is for those who've been there." - American Indian proverb

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Friday, October 3, 2003 11:24 PM

DRAKON

First off, I think Book is now a good guy. Part of that is I would hate to think Zoe, let alone Mal, were that bad a judge of character. Besides, Book has shown himself to not be a weak man, and handy in a fight, and knowledgable about some things he probably shouldn't be.

Whether he always was a good guy, that is another question. Also, it probably should be pointed out that "good guy" is kind of a loose term here.

I get the sense that he is worried about having a "hot house" faith. One that makes him very comfortable in the abbey, but may not work well in the outside world. It does not comfort him when they are running out of air in "Out of Gas"

If he is presently Alliance, why did he get the snot beat out of him in "Serenity", by the guy whose life he saved. Granted, the idiot was unconscious at the time, and maybe he was pissed at getting decked by a preacher, but still, there was more than just a return punch.

He has had opportunity to turn River in, but don't. He fights side by side with Mal and Zoe. He "kneecaps" some folks in "War Stories" (although I think he needs to study anatomy a bit. Kneecaps are not located in the chest area)

My guess, given the data we have, is that he is former internal security, (like FBI counter terrorism, only more police statish) and has done some very bad things, and is trying to change. Trying to be a shepard. That this is a recent release into the world, after a few years of monastic living.

"Wash, where is my damn spaceship?"

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Saturday, October 4, 2003 2:47 AM

FREESOUP

Well, this is a fellow who knows his way with guns, tracking on the ground, insignia of Alliance, and a LOT about lethal illegal space salvage.

That means he's either a crime specialist, a former bounty hunter, a Black Ops boy either privately or for the Alliance military, a military inderdicter of pirates and other criminals, an anthropologist studying the Reaver problem, a shit disturber or a witness having been relocated after doing any of the above.

Any guesses which ones get him fast, fast relief on an Alliance vessel on patrol of the Rim?

He's clearly experienced at doing bad stuff well. The question he may be asking himself is can an old dog really learn new tricks?

Free Soup, from OB That Was.

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Saturday, October 4, 2003 11:58 AM

MOJAVERATTLER

Book's Actual quote was "I don't give half-a-hump whether you're innocent or not. So where does that put you?" while he was speaking with Jayne.

-mojave

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Saturday, October 4, 2003 11:59 AM

TRAGICSTORY

My two cents is that Book was Alliance. High up Alliance brass. Then he realized that the ideals he was fighting for were not the same as the status quo he was defending.

He got all of his previous skills (tracking, guns, etc.) because he became brass byworking up from a grunt.

I also believe that is an asian (custom,tradition, honorable choice) to quit the military to become a religious man in the later years of your life. So I think that Book, sick at what he was fighting for opted for the only non-eyebrow raising way out and joined the abby.

Of course to make this idea work we would have to assume that Niska was low level alliance (but with a reputation for being a bastard)

Of course we could always jump Joss and Tim and beat it out of them. DON'T THINK WE HAVE FORGOTTEN THAT YOU KNOW WHAT INARA IS RUNNING FROM!

-----------
"Societies are supported by human activity, therefore they are constantly threatened by the human facts of self-intrest and stupidity." --Peter Berger

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Sunday, October 5, 2003 12:58 AM

BARNEYT

Quote:
Originally posted by MojaveRattler:
Book's Actual quote was "I don't give half-a-hump whether you're innocent or not. So where does that put you?" while he was speaking with Jayne.

I'm agreeing with the 'Book was a cop before he became a Shepherd' theory - although I think it has to have been military police, for his ID card to have that much clout with the Alliance.

My read of this line is that it's his own thoughts about the different ways of thinking he has now compared to his days in the police. 'Cause presumably as a shepherd he's no longer concerned with the crimes Jayne may or may not have committed - which would be a real switch for his cop-trained mind.

---
"I think the right place to start is to say, fair is fair. This is who we are. These are our numbers." Mr Willis of Ohio - The West Wing

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Sunday, October 5, 2003 4:12 AM

GTHING

I actually am working on a fanfic series, where I’m planning to explore some of Book’s past. Of course, I have to figure out what some of those secrets are. This thread is definitely useful for hearing other fans’ speculations.

Excerpt from My Genre Geek Resume:
~huge Odyssey 5 fan (despite its cancellation)
~dangerously obsessed with BtVS and Angel
~former Andromeda fan
GO CUBS!!!

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Monday, October 6, 2003 6:10 AM

ANDRE

Quote:
Originally posted by Channain:
Safe to say he wasn't always a shephard.

Well, not quite. Remember how he said to Jayne he has never been with a woman...?

Sometime Jayne also said "someday we'll find out how can a preacher know so much about crime". Book gave some answer like "maybe someday you'll know" but I can't remember exactly the words...

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Monday, October 6, 2003 6:13 AM

SPACEANGLER

So maybe he was a gay cop.

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Monday, October 6, 2003 6:19 AM

BARNEYT

Quote:
Originally posted by andre:
Quote:
Originally posted by Channain:
Safe to say he wasn't always a shephard.

Well, not quite. Remember how he said to Jayne he has never been with a woman...?

He said to Jayne, he'd never been with a woman? What episode did that happen in?

---
"I think the right place to start is to say, fair is fair. This is who we are. These are our numbers." Mr Willis of Ohio - The West Wing

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Monday, October 6, 2003 6:22 AM

SPACEANGLER

It was Objects in Space, wasn't it?

------------------------------------
In desperate need of a Signature.

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Monday, October 6, 2003 7:01 AM

MANIACNUMBERONE

Lots of army-types don't ever marry either. So Book could have been in the military intelligence a long time without marrying, then moved into the shepherd role to try to pay for his past sins... most likely his role in planning the attack on Serenity valley.

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Monday, October 6, 2003 7:36 AM

SUCCATASH

As I recall, the whole conversation about Book not having sex and "channeling his energy elsewhere" takes place in the context of his being a shepherd.

We do know that Book has never married. We don't know anything about Book's sex life before he became a shepherd. And we don't know when he became a shepherd.

Book is definitely one of the coolest characters of all time.

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Monday, October 6, 2003 8:31 AM

ANDRE

In a attempt to find out WHO IS THIS GUY (who claims himself to be) NAMED BOOK, we need to gather some facts about him:

(I haven't watched all episodes and I don't have a HD inside my head, so correct me if I'm wrong)

1) He never claimed he has been a preacher all his life.
2) His actions show that he has been envolved with crime/war/etc in the past. He never denied that. ("How can a preacher know so much about crime?" "Maybe someday I'll tell you" - Jayne and Book)
3) He had some involvement with alliance. (he was attended by a alliance hospital - no questions asked)
4) He was never maried.
5) He boarded Serenity before Simon & River.
6) River readed his thoughts: "I don't give half-a-hump whether you're
innocent or not. So where does that put you?" He might not be speaking about her. But he had some evil look on his eyes... (personally, I think he is remembering something someone told him)
7) He is not a weak man.
8) He (seem to) dislike the idea of getting involved into crime.
9) He was truly upset when he found out Inara was a companion.
10) He spoke to Mal about a special hell. Bible says nothing about it, but maybe he was just mocking Mal.
11) He's one of the coolest characteres of all times, and maybe even one of the coolest in Firefly.

Personally, I believe that:

1) If he wanted to do anything bad against someone in Serenity, he would have done already.
2) He's too realistic as a preacher to be in witness program.
3) I have no doubt his motivations are honest. (unless he's fooling me too! :-)

So my two cents would be:

He was involved in the war (maybe in Serenity battle). Maybe he was in the Independents side and betrayed his friends. Maybe he was in the Alliance side and witnessed/took part in a mass assassination. At some point he might have claimed to be innocent and someone told him: "I don't give half-a-hump whether you're innocent or not. So where does that put you?" Well, with this one sentence everything became clear to him.

So he found God and abandoned his life of evil. He joined a monastery and rebuilt a life. Probably changed his name. I think that's pretty much it.

Maybe someone can point out any other facts (or almost-facts)...

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Monday, October 6, 2003 8:43 AM

KAYTHRYN

Quote:
Posted by Andre:
9) He was truly upset when he found out Inara was a companion.

Was he really upset by the fact that Inara is a companion or was he upset that Mal lead him to believe she was a state official, then laughed at his discomfort? I don't think he had a problem with Inara's job, I don’t think he supports it, but he still refers to her kindly and calls her a "respectable Companion".

-------------------------------------
It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
Aristotle

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Monday, October 6, 2003 3:37 PM

VETERAN

Don't squat with your spurs on.

Quote:

Andre:
6) River readed his thoughts: "I don't give half-a-hump whether you're
innocent or not. So where does that put you?" He might not be speaking about her. But he had some evil look on his eyes... (personally, I think he is remembering something someone told him)

10) He spoke to Mal about a special hell. Bible says nothing about it, but maybe he was just mocking Mal.
11) He's one of the coolest characteres of all times, and maybe even one of the coolest in Firefly.

6)I think that the memory River reads from Book in OIS could be a lot of things. It could be what you said. But because he has the angry look on his face, I think it's something he said to someone else, perhaps as part of an interrogation.

10)The special hell comment was terrific. It reminded me so much of his character Harris on Barney Miller. I don't think he was mocking here, just doing what he could to emphasize the point to Mal. Interesting point with this episode is that he didn't spot Saffron as a grifter.

11) What can I say they're all cool in their own way, but you're right he is the coolest.

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Monday, October 6, 2003 6:24 PM

GRANNYSTEEL

One thing that impressed me was the prompt medical care and the lack of questions afterward. Like that which would be accorded to Commander James Bond, or to Billy Graham.
He could have been the spritual advisor to someone high up in the Allience, and gone into seclusion because the reality did not match the retoric. As for his proficency with wheapons, and martial arts, a man goes through more than one phase in his life. I am betting soldier, scholar, scientist, priest.

The idea that someone said "I don't give half a hump" to Book is fasinating. If Book said it to someone, he is duplictious since I can not think of a senario where the character he presents would not treat the innocent different than the guilty. It had not occured to me that it might be the memory of something said to him.

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Monday, October 6, 2003 10:31 PM

DRAKON

Quote:
9) He was truly upset when he found out Inara was a companion.

Umm.. That is not what I saw, or how I saw it, one of the two.

Mal was being obviously mean to Inara, and Book both, by noting her profession in the manner he did. Plus you have the embarrassment of thinking Inara was some kind of politician and finding out you were decieved, that she was a prostitute instead. (Hmmm...mistaking a whore for a politician. There has got to be a good line there somewhere.)

Also, he did bring her food, and joke with her about sermons later on.

"Wash, where is my damn spaceship?"

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Monday, October 6, 2003 10:44 PM

DRAKON

Quote:
If Book said it to someone, he is duplictious since I can not think of a senario where the character he presents would not treat the innocent different than the guilty.

Was duplictious, I think (hope) you meant.

That line has always bugged me, and it is clear that Joss meant for it too. Was he reviewing a pass sin of his own, something visited on himself, what?

Damn Faux. I guess it would be too much to ask for Joss to let us in on Book's secret in the movie.

"Wash, where is my damn spaceship?"

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Tuesday, October 7, 2003 12:13 PM

VETERAN

Don't squat with your spurs on.

Quote:

Drakon Wrote:
Damn Faux. I guess it would be too much to ask for Joss to let us in on Book's secret in the movie.

No, no it wouldn't. Joss, if you read this, please let us in on Book's past. There see that wasn't too hard.

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Tuesday, October 7, 2003 12:13 PM

VETERAN

Don't squat with your spurs on.

Quote:

Drakon Wrote:
Damn Faux. I guess it would be too much to ask for Joss to let us in on Book's secret in the movie.

No, no it wouldn't. Joss, if you read this, please let us in on Book's past. There see that wasn't too hard.

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Tuesday, October 7, 2003 12:14 PM

VETERAN

Don't squat with your spurs on.

OOps double post. Pardon my impatience with the "Post my response" button.

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Tuesday, October 7, 2003 10:30 PM

DRAKON

Well it does double the chance Joss will notice it

"Wash, where is my damn spaceship?"

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Wednesday, October 8, 2003 4:44 AM

STILLSHINY

In the process of showing the epps to some friends of ours. Using the order Haken has under the episode guide. Anyway, it's fun to watch newcomers twist over the "mystery man" Shepherd Book. Yep, I'm

!

Mal: “See how I'm not punching him? I think I've grown!”

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Tuesday, October 14, 2003 4:50 AM

CHARLIEMOUSE

One of the reasons i was so gutted about firefly being cancelled (apart from the fact that it was just great) was that we never got to learn the twists. Unlike a lot of other shows, Joss Whedon things generally dont throw stuff in unless they mean to explain it and i want to know about Book dammit.

My main theories are that

1. Alliance type (high up) who converted
2. Independance type (equally high up) who went into hiding / converted
3. Spent his youth in smuggling / piracy before repenting his sins and finding God.

Personally i want it to be 3, although i think it may well be one (the alliance ID if nothing else - although ill gotten wealth could buy status). Either way, i think he may be someone big enough that if the crew ever found out his name theyd know who he was.

"as with other situations, the key seems to be giving Jayne a heavy stick and standing back"

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Friday, October 17, 2003 2:47 AM

BARNEYT

Quote:
Originally posted by charliemouse:
3. Spent his youth in smuggling / piracy before repenting his sins and finding God.

Personally i want it to be 3, although i think it may well be one (the alliance ID if nothing else - although ill gotten wealth could buy status). Either way, i think he may be someone big enough that if the crew ever found out his name theyd know who he was.

This is an interesting thought - rather than being actual Alliance military, he's a civilian that has a lot of clout with the Alliance - weapons manufacturer maybe...

---
"I think the right place to start is to say, fair is fair. This is who we are. These are our numbers." Mr Willis of Ohio - The West Wing

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Friday, October 17, 2003 6:58 AM

I dunno. If I had to guess, I'd say he was a program from the machine world...sorry, old Alliance geezer. There's just too much gunning for that theory. He's taken onto an Alliance cruiser for medical aid so quickly it's scary. He knows all about weapons and ships (two areas of knowledge that don't seem to logically overlap) and is competent in combat. Plus there's that bit in Serenity where Simon mentions the Alliance officer that was responsible for the defeat of the browncoats. Lot of speculation earlier ( http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=4&t=2072) that this officer was Book, and that'd make sense. You could see Joss doing that.

I do think he was a general who worked his way up, gathering all his strange little trivia on the way. He was in charge of the battle of Serenity Valley. Following the victory of the Alliance, he sees that the cause he fought for wasn't so great (that whole 'governments are ungoverned' bit?) and got all disillusioned. Found some faith. Joined Serenity because it was Serenity Valley that gave him his faith.

But then I could be wrong. Damn you Joss.

JK

"Where there monkeys? Some terrifying space monkeys maybe got loose?"

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Friday, October 24, 2003 7:02 PM

CALDEEN

If it is option 3 he could have been in the abby for something like the witness protection. An interesting thought.

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Monday, December 29, 2003 10:47 AM

SGTRAUKSAUFF

There are a lot of really really interesting possibilities for him. My own cool thought was that he's somehow involved with the Blue Sun group as well as the Alliance, perhaps because the Alliance is aware of (bankrolling?) the human experiments being performed at their 'school'. I think Book could be even more highly trained than we know, and is a consummate 'secret agent' infiltrator type. I think he's there to keep an eye on the Tams, or to Keep Blue Sun from getting their hands on them too soon, if at all. I see River as an exremely pivotal part of this show, so I think that Book's involvement would be more in her direction than in Mal's.

Or, with the half-a-hump line, perhaps he had a disagreement with someone, but that comment was definitely in some sort of conflict-based context. (To really overanalyze it, wasn't the emphasis on the last word, "you" rather than "that".. so instead of 'Where does THAT Put you?', it was "Where does that put YOU?', like someone was being asked or forced to choose sides on an issue ). Whether it was said by Book or by someone speaking to him, it was Very different from all the other 'brain quotes' that River heard from everyone else.... I think that someone of higher or equal rank disagreed with him or did something he found out about.. maybe he was in command of a facility that was actually doing the experiments, he found out, and left? I think that he didn't leave though, because that Alliance ship jumped when they saw his ID badge.

hmm.. anyway, just some musings from a bored mind at work...

Bitch! I cut off my Beard for you!!

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Tuesday, December 30, 2003 3:23 PM

INSANESPIKE

I never got a chance to watch "Firefly" until it was released on DVD, but after watching it once, I was in love.

However, the one thing that bugged me the most after watching the final episode was the fact that we never learned the truth about Book's past. So this is a topic I definitely want to weigh in on.

My theory tends to go along with many others that have already been mentioned here. Sometime in the past, during the war, Book was Alliance. That's the only way I can explain the prompt medical service he received as soon as the feds saw his ID card. But, the question is, what is he now? Is he really a shephard? Or is he still some sort of Alliance spy?

Now, knowing how Joss Whedon's mind operates, I could very easily see him going either way with this. But it's my opinion that Book is mostly what he appears to be. If he was some sort of Alliance spy, we most likely would have been given clues somewhere along the line. Also, I don't think he'd be so willing to put his life on the line for Mal like he did in "War Stories". I believe that it something along that same lines as several other have said. He realized the error of his ways after the war, and became a shephard to try and turn his life around. If I remember right, he said that he had been in the monastery for six years, and that would conincide with the end of war, right?

I just hope that when the move comes out, Joss lets us know what Book's secret is. Otherwise, I think I might go crazy!

"How drunk was I last night?"

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Tuesday, December 30, 2003 10:15 PM

GIANTROBO

I personally get the impression that Book was a high ranking Alliance military officer. Maybe a decorated war hero or a general or something. Only he got delusioned during the war and saw how human the enemy really was... other people. so he got out of service, and chose the life of a shepard as some kind of personal redemption. Now he knows a few things from his past, and he holds high status with the alliance, but no longer servs them and isn't entirely sure about their all-encompassing rule. After all, things get mighty gray out here on the rim.

It's not the most original idea in the forum, but it's still the one I believe most probable.

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Saturday, January 3, 2004 8:35 AM

MAL'SGAL

Who was Shepard Book and why did he find God (if is really is a Shepard)?

I like the idea that the Shepard's finding God may in some way be tied to Mal's loss of faith. Once again, it leads back to Serenity Valley.

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Sunday, January 4, 2004 3:58 PM

LADYJAYNE

Another of the great mysteries the undoubtedly would have been given to us half-way through season 2. Sigh.

Book is such a beautifully written character. He so much reminds me of the priest from the first chapter of Victor Hugo's LES MISERABLE or even possibly Prince Siddhartha/Guatama Buddha. That's how I like to imagine his background: Born to wealth, saw too much unethical behavior by his social class and then turned to a spiritual life. The details are irrelevant to me, but the archetype is a particular favorite of mine.

--Kala

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Tuesday, February 17, 2004 12:51 PM

PHOTINUSPYRALIS

Kala is dead-on. Shepherd Book has reminded me of someone for quite a while, and I now realize it's the kind Bishop from early on in Les Miserables: Valjean names him "Monsieur le Cure." Good call.

That being said, I do agree that the thought we see revealed when he's under River's scrutiny argues in favor of a more "complicated" background, and that the military command at Serenity does seem more likely than the other theories I've heard.

What a great character (the actor, Ron Glass, is fantastic, as well!).

Quote:
Originally posted by LadyJayne:
Another of the great mysteries the undoubtedly would have been given to us half-way through season 2. Sigh.

Book is such a beautifully written character. He so much reminds me of the priest from the first chapter of Victor Hugo's LES MISERABLE or even possibly Prince Siddhartha/Guatama Buddha. That's how I like to imagine his background: Born to wealth, saw too much unethical behavior by his social class and then turned to a spiritual life. The details are irrelevant to me, but the archetype is a particular favorite of mine.

--Kala

"Always have enjoyed guessing games." --Shepherd Book, Dead or Alive

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Tuesday, February 17, 2004 1:43 PM

PALEHORSE

Now, I know that there have been some wild and somewhat valid conjectures regarding the past and future of our beloved Sheppard.

I propose that he was in some way in command of Aliance troops during the battle of Serenity Valey, a dark day for all of us loyal to the independants.

As support for my hypothesis I offer a only incedental evidence.

1. Mal has owned Serenity for 5 years(commentary - "Out of Gas")a year or two after the war

2. Book is proficient in the use of weaponry and usually has the reflexes of a cat (just watch him in action in "War Stories")

3. It was common after a safe return from the Crusades, to join a monastic order once the horror of war, and the guilt associated with not only your own actions but also the guilt of surviving when others you knew had died, finally caught up with the well to do

4. Book has not yet been ordained(I believe that I remember him saying as much)

5. Even if he had been ordained, the seminary would take @ 6 years for most faiths.

6. Book is given top notch medical care on the Aliance cruiser in "Bushwacked". The kind of care that an enlisted man would not recieve, and not the fawning and bowing that a highly placed government official would recieve, more like a respected officer or hero might expect.

7. Durring a conversation with Inarra over a crisis of faith (said conversation rife with supporting lines for fans of Joss's thinking) book says that he thinks he got on the wrong ship, and is told that he is right where he needs to be(Serenity)

He is hiding, in my opinion, from his own guilt.

He is not "on the lam" or desperatly trying to stay under the radar as the use of his ident card would have popped up a red flag to detain him( a warant gets you arrested if the cops stop you for speeding in Va. and we don't have the cortex)

Yes he was looking for a ship as a passenger, but what made him choose Serenity for, 1st transit, then a home is his personal growth and atonement.

If he were an officer in the aliance military, his perspective durring the war as to what kind of person would fight for the independants would have to be skewed in order to allow him to order them slain. He now sees that they were human and is coping with his guilt issues.

Joss drops hints in BTVS season 3 that the bed in Buffy's dreams is for "Little Sister"

In BTVS season 4 "spirit guide" Tara tells Buffy to be home before "DAWN"

The clues have been there for us, but the aura of mystery has been focused on, and I too Hate this phrase, "the girl in the box".

It's like Moe(3 Stooges) moving his hand and twiddling his fingers to get your attention before hi hits you with the hammer you've known was in his other hand the whole time.

Then we have the deleted scenes.

In the original opening Zoe keeps asking Mal what colors(flag) the med ships are flying with the response "Does it matter?".
Once she proposes that there may be a god after all Mal's response is to the efect of "God? Wonder what color he flies."
Could be a back-handed clue or illustration with Book as a sheapherd, or at least posing as one.

Next we have the first of the two scene clip wherein Book asks Simon whether he caught the name of the ship he has boarded.
When Simon assumes the mundane definition of Serenety to be the case Book directs him to brush up on his history if he wants to bond with the crew.
Book, I take it, knew the meaning if not on sight then certainly by the time he set foot on the ship.

The second of the two scene clip, while cool with the name of the general, was most striking in Zoe's recounting of the true horror of the wounded being left for dead for a whole week.
I also dug the line regading making Serenity your home. Talk about classic double entandre(sp?).

There were prodigies and portents enough, One-Eye says. We must blame ourselves for misinterpreting them. One-Eye's handicap in no way impairs his marvelous hindsight.

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Tuesday, February 17, 2004 1:58 PM

WHOODAHN

I agree with your assesment of Shepherd Book.

I wonder why River doesn't 'read' him more often. If he has secrets to hide and is loaded with guilt, shouldn't River have picked up on it?

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Tuesday, February 17, 2004 2:33 PM

PUDOR

Quite clearly, Book is Zoe and Mal's lovechild, sent back through time to 'set things right' and avenge the awful death of the entire Serenity crew at the hands of River The World Destroyer.

His skill with arms and knowledge of torture techniques and criminal activities is obviously due to his childhood tutor, Nishka's head-in-a-jar.

With Joss's well-documented aim being to destroy any notion of causality and predicability amongst his public, this seems as likely a scenario as any to me :)

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Tuesday, February 17, 2004 3:08 PM

PHOTINUSPYRALIS

Why "Mal and Zoe's lovechild?" Why doesn't Wash get any respect?? After all, he and Zoe (1) are married; (2) discussed having children in "Heart of Gold"; and (3) were seen makin' sweet, sweet love (um, on the bridge) in "Objects in Space."

Then again, perhaps all of this is misdirection, and Book is actually Jubal Earley's father, riddled by guild for failing to protect Earley's mother (and the lovable golden retreiver) from his adolescent predations. That would explain Earley's comment that Book is "no shepherd."

Okay, enough of that. I'm sticking with Book as General Whatshisname, commander of alliance forces at the Battle of Serenity Valley on Hera. I think PaleHorse's points on that are pretty compelling.

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Tuesday, February 17, 2004 4:08 PM

PUDOR

Quote:
Originally posted by PhotinusPyralis:
Why "Mal and Zoe's lovechild?" Why doesn't Wash get any respect?? After all, he and Zoe (1) are married; (2) discussed having children in "Heart of Gold"; and (3) were seen makin' sweet, sweet love (um, on the bridge) in "Objects in Space."

Ah. You see, Wash is disembowled by one of his own dinosaur toys when our Valiant Crew visit the Planet Of The Growth Slime and all the toys on board becomes sentient. Alien headcrabs then trick Mal into thinking Zoe is Inara, and Zoe into thinking Mal is Wash, and we are treated to a slow motion, 12 minute long love-making scene, with the sad music from the end of 'The Message' overlaid.

(in my defense, it is 2:10am here, and I've been translating Virgil all bloody day)...

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Wednesday, March 31, 2004 5:14 PM

ROCKETJOCK

Quote:
Originally posted by MojaveRattler:
Book's Actual quote was "I don't give half-a-hump whether you're innocent or not. So where does that put you?" while he was speaking with Jayne.

-mojave

Rewatching this episode the other day, I realized something: Every verbal/mental pickup River gets from someone is a regret. Simon regrets the good life he gave up to save his sister; Jayne regrets his stupidity in betraying his shipmates (and definately regrets getting caught at it.) Inara regrets pressuring someone (A doctor? Her priestess? Her lover?) to tell her the truth about her condition/situation; and Mal regrets losing his faith.

{Keep in mind, these people might or might not make the same choices again. It's entirely possible to regret a necessity.}

The only ones who show no regrets are Kaylee, who is such a pure soul/creature of innocent impulse that she probably doesn't have any, and Zoe/Wash, who are too deeply into the pleasure of the moment to regret anything.

And in this context, Book's regret is that, at some point in his past, he did not care about justice, either in general, or against someone in particular. Not a bad thing to regret, actually.

No conclusions. Just an observation.

"You can't enslave a free man. The most you can do is kill him." -- Robert A. Heinlein

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Thursday, April 1, 2004 2:32 PM

MALICIOUS

Rocketjock,

The last time I watched OIS, I noticed that most (if not all) of the lines River "heard" were said elsewhere in the episode, in different contexts than what she heard them.

When she first saw and heard Simon and Kaylee talking, the line "I would be there right now..." was very cold and made River feel guilty for causing Simon's life to go off course. When Simon actually did say the line in the true context, it was said more with wonder and a touch of melancholy, not remorse, regret or anger.

But that's just my take...

Mal-licious

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Friday, April 2, 2004 2:00 PM

MALICIOUS

My bad. I just watched OIS again and the only line repeated in the episode appears to be the "I would be there right now..." one by Simon. However, knowing Joss (not really KNOWING, but you know), there may have been future episodes with them inserted in them, like easter eggs, to go back and find like treasure. When I watch the entire series again (next week?), I will look for the others in previous episodes.

1st: Simon "I would be there right now..."

2nd: Jayne: "I got stupid. The money was too good." (Does this sound familiar? Did Jayne say this to Mal when Mal put him in the airlock? Or maybe when Simon finally realizes it was Jayne who turned them in and threatens him?)

3rd: Book: "I don't give half a hump if you're innocent or not. Where does that put you?" (I don't recall Book saying anything near that rude, but maybe Joss would have clarified in a future ep?)

4th: Inara: "I'm a big girl. Just tell me." (Another one intended to be clarified in a future episode? Or perhaps Inara wants Mal to just tell her that he does not care for her? That he wants her to leave? That she can handle it?---Like she "handled" it in "Heart of Gold"?)

5th: Mal: "None of it means a damn thing." (Is this, or something like it, said in any of the war scenes? Maybe when Mal determines that God was not on his side? Or maybe he is trying to tell Inara that if she leaves, his lifestyle has no meaning??)

My point being that I (personally) don't believe any of the things River "heard" were addressed to her directly, just that she picked random thoughts from everyone, and heard them out of their true context. I think we the audience were intended to be let in on the true meanings slowly over the rest of the season-that-never-was.

Anyone?

Mal-licious

Simon to Jubal Early: "My sister's a ship...we had a complicated childhood."

Mal to River-as-Serenity: "How come there's a man on board and you're all of a sudden the ship?"

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