FIREFLY EPISODE DISCUSSIONS

The best villains in firefly- who gets your vote?

POSTED BY: STUBBS
UPDATED: Thursday, May 3, 2007 04:45
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VIEWED: 28786
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Sunday, April 16, 2006 4:56 AM

SCORPIONREGENT


This was not a easy choice. I had to reach this deciscion buy imposing criteria on all the villians. Depth and room for backstory, if they don't have this then they become boring, if not now then soon. Personality, if they don't have this then they are boring. Dangerous, if you aren't dangerous you aren't a villian. Complexity of motive, if the motive is obvious then the villian can be predictable. Crazy, crazy is interesting. Sustainability, this one comes from the writer in me, if the character has now story stamina he/ she won't last. This is sort of controlled and affected by all the rest.

My vote goes for Saffron or what ever her name is today. She has depth with a lot of room for developement and background. She has a personality. She's dangerous, but not too dangerous. Her motives aren't entirely clear. Sociopaths are crazy. She is extremely sustainable. My lady pointed out the are a lot of dumb guys in the 'verse and because of that she has a lot of job security.

Jubal Early was interesting, he had a lot of depth and room for developement. He had personality. He was dangerous, possibly too dangerous, if you bring him back he will have to kill one of the crew, it's not plausible that he wouldn't. I'm convinced that though he didn't rape Kaylle and kill anybody it was only because he wanted to have Simon and River captured and secure before he did start doing unspeakable things. His motives are simple and he wants money and a way to hurt people. He is crazy, no doubt. Sustainable, not likely. You either have to kill him or he will kill you. He won't survive another a episode if he comes back.

Niska had personality. He was dangerous. His motives were realtively simple, power and wealth. Torture for Niska was merely a way to incorporate his hobby into his work. He's a sadist that's crazy. Sustainable, sure he can stay, if he has enough wealth he can always hire enough goons to keep himself safe from our BDH's.

Reavers, crazy, dangerous, sustainable, but not deep or complex. If you kill one then there will be more. Just like targets in a shooting gallery. They are more a force to be reckoned with than a villian.

The Operative, he's sane, dangerous, there's personality, he's not very deep or complex though. If he comes back he will have to have gone through some sort of radical change. He said it himself:

"There is nothing more to see."

The Bluehands, well I got the impression that for as dangerous as they are that like the reavers if you kill one there will be another one stamped out at the factory.

I love Badger, but he's not a villian, any more than the tax collector. He is just a unpleasant side of doing business.



Scorpion Regent

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Monday, April 17, 2006 10:01 AM

BUK


Niska with his obsession with torturing people for atleast 2 days. Disturbs me.

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Wednesday, April 19, 2006 4:22 AM

NYTEGAUNT


Niska .. without a doubt .. it is the look of almost childlike glee he adopts while torturing people. Niska much reminds me of some of the great "Bond Villains" but with a much sicker twist somewhere deep inside.

~Nyte~

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Friday, April 21, 2006 6:06 PM

J6NGO1977


Saff. I would go to that special hell for her twice over. I would kiss her and be knocked out and then only to do it all over :) 'Ok you tryed to kill me. However you are so hot would you kiss me again. If you accidently have some sort of knockout drug on your lips, i dont mind. I will forgive you and let you try to kill me later' :)

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Friday, April 21, 2006 6:40 PM

N0SKILLZ


Gotta throw my vote in the hat for Niska, hes one BAMF (bad a$$ mofo)

-------------------------------
RAF Lakenheath
Security Deputy of the Sereni-Tree
"I can't feel my Danger Zone" Jayne Muppet!
http://walkerboh.deviantart.com/

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Saturday, April 22, 2006 11:04 AM

KASTOR


oh definately Jubal Early!

I like him so much I hope he didn't die and make another appearance in Season 2.



One day.
One plan.
One army of Browncoats.

On June 23rd, we aim to misbehave.

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Sunday, April 23, 2006 3:34 PM

VINTERDRAKEN


Its a close one between Jubal Early and the Reavers.
Earlys seen with Kaylee really creeped me out, But I think the reavers win in the end. When I think back to the first time the reavers appeard and the fear that they inspired in the crew, and in me aswell. Just Brillliant.

You can’t stop the Signal.
Keep spreading the word about Firefly!

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Sunday, April 23, 2006 3:34 PM

VINTERDRAKEN


Its a close one between Jubal Early and the Reavers.
Earlys seen with Kaylee really creeped me out, But I think the reavers win in the end. When I think back to the first time the reavers appeard and the fear that they inspired in the crew, and in me aswell. Just Brillliant.

You can’t stop the Signal.
Keep spreading the word about Firefly!

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Sunday, April 23, 2006 3:34 PM

VINTERDRAKEN


Its a close one between Jubal Early and the Reavers.
Earlys seen with Kaylee really creeped me out, But I think the reavers win in the end. When I think back to the first time the reavers appeard and the fear that they inspired in the crew, and in me aswell. Just Brillliant.

You can’t stop the Signal.
Keep spreading the word about Firefly!

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Sunday, April 23, 2006 3:34 PM

VINTERDRAKEN


Its a close one between Jubal Early and the Reavers.
Earlys seen with Kaylee really creeped me out, But I think the reavers win in the end. When I think back to the first time the reavers appeard and the fear that they inspired in the crew, and in me aswell. Just Brillliant.

You can’t stop the Signal.
Keep spreading the word about Firefly!

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Sunday, April 23, 2006 3:34 PM

VINTERDRAKEN


Its a close one between Jubal Early and the Reavers.
Earlys seen with Kaylee really creeped me out, But I think the reavers win in the end. When I think back to the first time the reavers appeard and the fear that they inspired in the crew, and in me aswell. Just Brillliant.

You can’t stop the Signal.
Keep spreading the word about Firefly!

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Sunday, April 23, 2006 3:34 PM

VINTERDRAKEN


Its a close one between Jubal Early and the Reavers.
Earlys seen with Kaylee really creeped me out, But I think the reavers win in the end. When I think back to the first time the reavers appeard and the fear that they inspired in the crew, and in me aswell. Just Brillliant.

You can’t stop the Signal.
Keep spreading the word about Firefly!

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Wednesday, April 26, 2006 9:28 PM

VOLK564


Hey all! I'm new here (first post). So if I say something dumb, please don't get any chains. :)

Jubal Early's very intimidating and frightening...but only in the first 35 mins or so of the episode, after that it's just River toying with him...and that makes him a lot less scary than he could have been. VERY well written villan though, hats off to Joss.

I'd have to say Niska, because as someone (I think Fillian) said on the episode commentary for War Stories, he's just such an adorable old guy who you'd expect to build birdhouses as a hobby or something, with his little tie and glasses, but then he goes and tortures people.

Also, Saffron's pretty bitchy. Def. on of those love-to-hate villans.

My two cents.

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Thursday, April 27, 2006 1:43 AM

BOOKSWORD


1-Operative

He is dangerous, intelligent and focused. Not only can he go one on one and pretty much play 'slap the prison bitch' with Mal. But he will stop at nothing to acomplish his goal. Its easy for a cold hearted psycho killer to go around killing to show how evil it is. Its more terrifying for a reasonable seeming man willing to kill woman and children just to cover all bases.

Plus a brother with a sword, so loving it.

2- 'I am a Lion.'

A monster who is a man who thinks he is a Lion. Sneaks on board and takes out Mal. Spreads fear and confusion and has interesting insights. The fiend threatens our favourite gal and uses logic on Simon.

Even bested he shrugs his shoulders.

'Here I am.'

Jubal Early, the man in red.

3- Saffron

Smart, cunning and ruthless. Plus she makes the good book a whole lot more interesting. You cant keep a bad girl down.

4- FOX Excutives

Not evil, worse then evil. Dumber then s**t with the common sense of a Lemming and the ablity to rip a beloved show taken to the heart out of your chest.

Leaving a yearning that makes herion withdrawal seem like a head ache.

Maybe should be number one.

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Thursday, April 27, 2006 2:24 AM

SPOOTY


Niska without a doubt.

Don't get me wrong, it ain't like the others ain't evil an' all.

Just something about the Gepetto (sp?) appearence and manner yet so dark and morbid.

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Sunday, May 7, 2006 7:37 AM

HURRICANEEZ1


Saffron....and its not even close IMO.

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Monday, May 8, 2006 10:14 AM

KEYOKE


Its got to be Jubal. Saffron is good, but all she's really got going for her is that she's sexy. Jubal is scary. From the minute he found Kaylee, right till the end, he had me scared for the crew. Somehow I always knew they'd beat Saffron.

----------------
"We feel the pain of a lifetime lost in a thousand days,
Through the fire and the flames we carry on"

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Tuesday, May 9, 2006 10:02 PM

LYSCAT


There are so many possibilities to the question, but I think that Badger would be the best answer. He isn't so much a threat by himself, but he would gladly sell out the Serenity crew members to anyone (included in the list or not).



----------------------
May the feas of a thousand camels infest the crotch of the person who has ruined your day, and may their arms be too short to scratch~Anonymous

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Tuesday, May 9, 2006 10:17 PM

VERASAMUELS


Nastiest - Niska
One not to trust as far as you could throw them - YoSaffBridge and probably Badger
Smoothest - Jubal Early





Vera


Devout Keeper of Jayne's Lunchbox

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Wednesday, May 10, 2006 9:00 AM

DMON


First of all... hi all! :) I discovered Firefly after watching Serenity, so I guess that makes me... a "Palecoat"? :D

Anyways, love the series, and my fav is of course Niska. He is ABSOLUTELY brilliant, gotta luv his accent! :D

Regards,
David

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Thursday, May 11, 2006 12:59 PM

YARMUTH925


Mrs. Reynolds of course. She was pure evil!

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Thursday, May 11, 2006 10:19 PM

DMON


Quote:
Originally posted by yarmuth925:
Mrs. Reynolds of course. She was pure evil!


Well she was but she had this "I know she is evil but she MIGHT also have some feelings inside..." ;)

However, Niska was just plain evil!!!!

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Friday, May 12, 2006 12:45 AM

AZTECHROME


Niska is my clear vote.
That is a _very_ bad man. Convincing.

#2 - Id have to say the Operative.
I don't think he's truly evil, but he's by far the most deadly. Much deadlier than Niska


"Where is the difference between work and love? Show me..." (JLG Passion)

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Wednesday, May 31, 2006 2:00 PM

YT

the movie is not the Series. Only the facts have been changed, to irritate the innocent; the names of the actors and characters remain the same


Quote:
Originally posted by Stubbs:
(even Jayne if youre feeling fruity)

OK, I'll go for it.

Jayne is the best villain because he's the most realized, the most complex. He's the only one we get to see when he isn't being villainous, as well as when he is, and he has an arc (the Operative has only two stages, without an arc betwixt 'em).

Besides, you didn't ask for the worst villain, you asked for the best. That's Jayne.

Keep the Shiny Side Up . . .

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Saturday, March 10, 2007 4:25 PM

ASORTAFAIRYTALE


One of my favorites would probably have to be Badger because he just thinks he's so great when really he's nothing but an insult to the psychotic lowlife community. But then I have always liked the hands of blue guys because they scare the crap outta me, and they are all shrouded in mystery and stuff.

-------------------
What's so amazing about really deep thoughts?

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Saturday, March 10, 2007 9:19 PM

NONSTOP


Jubal is a great villain. Entertaining to listen to as well.

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Sunday, March 11, 2007 11:55 PM

SHERURCIJ


Can't believe nobody's said it yet, but Tracey gets my vote for most "villainous", the guy turns out to be a budder****er in every sense of the word.

In the war, we get a glimpse of this when he thinks of himself first, voting to surrender, screaming about his own shellshock from the seeker, his attitude toward Zoe's "preaching"...and it just gets worse, he gets into smuggling organs, *then* screws over his underworld contacts for more money, *then* involves the only people who ever cared for him, in aiding his escape (cash on delivery, mind you, didn't even pay to ship his own death-crate), then shoots Wash, threatens to shoot Mal and Zoe, emotionally blackmails Kaylee and uses her as a hostage...

Sorry, this is the one character who had every gorram chance given to him, and kept throwing it away in the hopes of bettering himself. This is one guy I feel no pity for.

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Monday, March 12, 2007 6:28 PM

MOBSTER


Quote:
Originally posted by Sherurcij:
Can't believe nobody's said it yet, but Tracey gets my vote for most "villainous", the guy turns out to be a budder****er in every sense of the word.


Yeah, Tracey is very villainous and would get my vote if Jubal never came about.

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Wednesday, March 14, 2007 9:05 AM

FOLLOWMAL


Quote:
Originally posted by DesktopHippie:

Kaylee: The c-captrain is right down the hall, the can h-hear you...
Jubel: The captain is locked in his quaters. Same as the rest of the crew. There's no one can help you. Say it.
Kaylee: (crying) There's no one can help me...



Whoa.. DTH.. made me get goosebumps of fear and a tear in my eye just reading it!!

Jubal Early gets my vote...


*still shuddering*

www.goodworkspresents.org

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Thursday, March 15, 2007 1:31 PM

FASTMOVER


Jubal Early, no question about it for me. I've basically memorized all of his lines. It's interesting how he's written to be this ruthless, purely evil character, but there's something really humorous in the way he messes with Simon. Those, "Does that seem right to you, "lines are the greatest ever!

A close second would be Niska, and unfortunately the Hands of Blue weren't fully introduced because they look really interesting, like something straight out of the X-files.

[IMG][/IMG]

I am evil, I am sly, and if you get eaten no one will cry.

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Thursday, March 15, 2007 4:11 PM

LAWMAN


Niska is the best villain. he tortures his own nephew and then talks to his wife about it. he kills mal and then brings him back to torture him some more. when he sends his henchmen to capture mal and wash, he doesn't even recover the medicine container. he's single mindedly evil, and he finds amusement in his depravity. you know that if there was a continuation of the series, we'd see niska again and again. he's just too good of an evil monster to let go.

i'll be in my bunk

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Thursday, March 15, 2007 5:13 PM

TRAVELER


Badger popped into my head before I even read the list. He insults Mal and still expects Mal to do a job for him. When he said, "I got my hands on a pair", it was pure gold. Niska could not pull that line off. Badger is one of a kind.

I also love how his reaction to River. He was so taken by her that he didn't even realise he was being insulted.

I'm sure if the show had continued Badger would have appeared in several more episodes.


Traveler

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Thursday, March 15, 2007 5:55 PM

WHIMSICALNBRAINPAN


Jubal Early

"Well, my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle." http://whimsicalnbrainpan.blogspot.com/

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Friday, March 16, 2007 1:29 PM

TRAVELER


Hey Whimsicalnbrainpan:

How's everything in your part of the verse. No Jubol Earlys' lurking about.

Sorry. I just love typing your name.

You may carry on now.




Traveler

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Friday, March 16, 2007 2:17 PM

WHIMSICALNBRAINPAN


Hey Traveler everything is pretty shiny. I hope you can say the same.

BTW, I loved Ponette! The little girl was amazing! Thanks for the recommendation.

I think it's great that you love my name so much.

"Well, my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle." http://whimsicalnbrainpan.blogspot.com/

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Friday, March 16, 2007 2:26 PM

TRAVELER


Hey Whimsicalnbrainpan:

I'm glad you liked the movie. It certainly surprized me when I saw it the first time.

Just came from a thread that asked who was the scariest villain. I said "My sister". I'm bad.




Traveler

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Tuesday, March 20, 2007 9:28 PM

BAGHEERA


Yeah, Badger definately goes up here as a villain.

And while I LOVE Early, especially in his role as an anti-River, I'm not sure I'd call him the best villain.

I think Saffron's the best. Not just cuz she's the sexayest. Not just cuz she's shown herself willing and capable of beating Mal, the crew, and anyone else who stands in her way...

but because of all the villains shown in the series, she seemed like the one most capable of actually becoming PART OF THE CREW at a later point in the storyline.

Mal doesnt think she is past redemption, or if he does he believes he can handle her, as shown by his actions in Trash. In my mind, that puts her somewhere between Jayne and the Alliance... and this being Joss's work... well... ya know how he loves to make antiheroes out of villains and all...

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Wednesday, March 21, 2007 2:01 PM

HEF


Gotta go with Niska. Anyone who cuts your ear off sucks big time

So later with the talking then

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Friday, April 20, 2007 5:11 AM

SHINYDS


I've always liked Badger. His mouth is bigger than his brain. He also kind of lives up to his name, causing trouble and just being overall weasley. I like how he seems like such a small built guy, but talks big and confidently, like nothing scares him and the world is his banquet.

"Wherever we want to go, we'll go. That's what a ship is, you know. It's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails. That's what a ship needs but what a ship is... what the Black Pearl really is... is freedom."
--Capt. Jack Sparrow

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Saturday, April 21, 2007 1:44 PM

HIGGINS


In the category of Villain You Love to Hate: YoSaffBridg, hands down. You know she's trouble, you KNOW she's going to double cross the crew, you KNOW that no matter what Mal thinks, he's not going to be able to handle her and yet you can't help watching and wondering what she's going to do next. Out of all the villains introduced in Firefly's too short season, YouSaffBridg strikes me as the one that could easily generate (or fit into) a number of storylines, especially since her character can slip easily between comedy and drama. In fact *drumroll here*, I wouldn't mind seeing her as the main villain of the next Serenity movie (some day it will happen). The first movie was a lot of sturm and drang and so (by my reckoning anyhow) the next one needs to be lighter and more fun.

In the category of Fun Reoccurring Character: Badger, definitely. He's comic, but he's also potentially dangerous and I can easily see him returning as a thorn in the side of Mal and Co. in any number of storylines.

***************************************************

"Crime and politics, little girl. The situation is always fluid."

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Saturday, April 21, 2007 2:00 PM

SHINYDS


You know, if I wasn't so sure Badger was afraid of Niska, I could almost see him ratting the crew out to him. Of course, the stakes would have to be pretty high to do that. Badger tried to hand them over once before, and then ended up needing them later in the series. On a completely unrelated note, nice use of the phrase "sturm and drang." I never thought I'd hear it outside of that class I took last year.

"Wherever we want to go, we'll go. That's what a ship is, you know. It's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails. That's what a ship needs but what a ship is... what the Black Pearl really is... is freedom."
--Capt. Jack Sparrow

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Saturday, April 21, 2007 2:51 PM

GROTZ


Two by two, hands of blue.
And their shiny ship.

Vote for BDM/FF at http://stargate-news.com/
Never kiss'em on the mouth.

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Saturday, April 21, 2007 3:13 PM

RIVERGIRL


Niska but then Jubal Early is scary

Also, I can kill you with my brain.

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Saturday, April 21, 2007 8:35 PM

FASTMOVER


Jubal Early followed by Niska. They both crack me up. :)

[IMG][/IMG]

I am evil, I am sly, and if you get eaten no one will cry.

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Sunday, April 22, 2007 5:11 AM

RIVER6213


I would have to go with Niska. This guy was a complete sadist, and I hate him for what he did too Wash and our Captain.

-River

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Sunday, April 22, 2007 5:50 AM

DONCOAT


Quote:
Originally posted by RiveR6213:
I would have to go with Niska. This guy was a complete sadist, and I hate him for what he did too Wash and our Captain.

Agreed: it's Niska for me too.

But technically, Niska may not be a sadist. It's not certain that he derives sexual gratification from inflicting pain. He seems to use torture more practically and intellectually -- to get revenge, exert control, intimidate his "relationships", and to see how different people react to pain.

Of course, "sadist" has drifted from its original meaning, so using the broader definition I agree he's one.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I'm pointin' right at it!

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Thursday, May 3, 2007 4:45 AM

MRSHINYVERSE


I'd have to go with the Operative (if he's included) or Jubal if he's not. The operative is the anti villian in a way (as Joss intended) and that scares me more than than the obvious bad guy characters. He believes he is doing the right thing and nothing will change his mind (until he finds out what is beliefs lead to).
Jubal is just Jubal - The bad guy I Love and Hate. Can't really explain it but I would liked to have seen more of him if the series continued.

"I'm here for a good time, not a long time" - that's my motto, or it might be if I start having a motto

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