FIREFLY EPISODE DISCUSSIONS

Mal's Sin *Movie spoilers*

POSTED BY: SERENITYINSCOTLAND
UPDATED: Monday, June 5, 2006 09:41
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Saturday, June 3, 2006 11:52 AM

SERENITYINSCOTLAND


Yo!
I think I am posting this in the right place, I trawled through all the back threads of this forum to see if this had been discussed before and I don't see it so...
Know when the Operative is about to kill Mal (or so he thinks) he asks Mal if he knows what his sin is?
What do you think he was going to say?
I guess he's talking about the seven deadly sins so it must be one of
1. Lust
2. Gluttony
3. Sloth
4. Greed
5. Pride
6. Envy
7. Wrath
I think the first four are out, but a case could be made for the last three.


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Saturday, June 3, 2006 12:04 PM

DAVESHAYNE


Yeah it's come up before. No reason not to discuss it again though.

My guess is The Op tells everybody their sin is pride. I doubt he gets called in to deal with infestations of gluttons much.

David

"Not completely as well as the series of Firefly..." - From a review of Serenity at amazon.de

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Saturday, June 3, 2006 12:43 PM

PENGUIN


Pride is the only thing that fits...nothing else applies.


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Saturday, June 3, 2006 12:58 PM

SERENITYINSCOTLAND


Wrath could fit - I think it technically means violence without proper justification. Mal has a few wrathful acts in his past that we can see - smacking Simon in the pilot episode for example. Even shooting the Operative earlier in the BDM just after he states that he is unarmed and looking to do things peacefully could be seen as wrathful.
As for envy, up until Miranda and the point where Mal finds he has a cause worth dying for again, I think he could almost have been envious of the single minded determination of the Operative to his cause.

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Saturday, June 3, 2006 8:05 PM

PHOENIXROSE

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.


My first thought was wrath, but I can see him saying pride, too. The whole thing of fighting a war he's already lost, etc, could almost be seen as wrathful pride. But the first time I saw it, i was sure he was going to say wrath.

**********************************

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Sunday, June 4, 2006 4:58 AM

DONCOAT


Well, since Mal actually answers him, and the answer he gives is "wrath"...


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I don't disagree on any particular point.

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Sunday, June 4, 2006 11:27 AM

SERENITYINSCOTLAND


That might not have been what the Operative was about to say though. It might just have been a good one-liner from Mal!

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Sunday, June 4, 2006 12:28 PM

VINTERDRAKEN


Pride or Wrath is my guess.
And I do actually believe that the Operative can be called in to deal with an infestation of Gluttons. Its all about what they glutton about. A Magistrate rapeing the moon the alliance have given him control over just so that he can live in excess while his people starve is one instance when the alliance might consider sending a Operative to "remove" the magistrate.

You can’t stop the Signal.
Keep spreading the word about Firefly!

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Sunday, June 4, 2006 12:28 PM

VINTERDRAKEN


Pride or Wrath is my guess.
And I do actually believe that the Operative can be called in to deal with an infestation of Gluttons. Its all about what they glutton about. A Magistrate rapeing the moon the alliance have given him control over just so that he can live in excess while his people starve is one instance when the alliance might consider sending a Operative to "remove" the magistrate.

You can’t stop the Signal.
Keep spreading the word about Firefly!

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Sunday, June 4, 2006 12:28 PM

VINTERDRAKEN


Pride or Wrath is my guess.
And I do actually believe that the Operative can be called in to deal with an infestation of Gluttons. Its all about what they glutton about. A Magistrate rapeing the moon the alliance have given him control over just so that he can live in excess while his people starve is one instance when the alliance might consider sending a Operative to "remove" the magistrate.

You can’t stop the Signal.
Keep spreading the word about Firefly!

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Sunday, June 4, 2006 12:28 PM

VINTERDRAKEN


Pride or Wrath is my guess.
And I do actually believe that the Operative can be called in to deal with an infestation of Gluttons. Its all about what they glutton about. A Magistrate rapeing the moon the alliance have given him control over just so that he can live in excess while his people starve is one instance when the alliance might consider sending a Operative to "remove" the magistrate.

You can’t stop the Signal.
Keep spreading the word about Firefly!

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Sunday, June 4, 2006 12:28 PM

VINTERDRAKEN


Pride or Wrath is my guess.
And I do actually believe that the Operative can be called in to deal with an infestation of Gluttons. Its all about what they glutton about. A Magistrate rapeing the moon the alliance have given him control over just so that he can live in excess while his people starve is one instance when the alliance might consider sending a Operative to "remove" the magistrate.

You can’t stop the Signal.
Keep spreading the word about Firefly!

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Sunday, June 4, 2006 12:28 PM

VINTERDRAKEN


Pride or Wrath is my guess.
And I do actually believe that the Operative can be called in to deal with an infestation of Gluttons. Its all about what they glutton about. A Magistrate rapeing the moon the alliance have given him control over just so that he can live in excess while his people starve is one instance when the alliance might consider sending a Operative to "remove" the magistrate.

You can’t stop the Signal.
Keep spreading the word about Firefly!

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Sunday, June 4, 2006 1:40 PM

DAVESHAYNE


Quote:
Originally posted by Vinterdraken:
A Magistrate rapeing the moon the alliance have given him control over just so that he can live in excess while his people starve is one instance when the alliance might consider sending a Operative to "remove" the magistrate.


Even if they felt it necesary (which they might not) there is no need to do that secret like. Probably be better in the long run for the Alliance to do that very unsecret even to show the rim worlders that they really do care about them.



David

"Not completely as well as the series of Firefly..." - From a review of Serenity at amazon.de

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Sunday, June 4, 2006 1:48 PM

VINTERDRAKEN


Ive always gotten the impression that many magistrates and other important officials are from the core. Also, sometimes it just is in everyones interest to do things quitlike. Look at reallife politics (modern and historic). When someone representing you, someone who you have put alot of word behind, starts following their own path you often cant just officially kill him or fire him.

You can’t stop the Signal.
Keep spreading the word about Firefly!

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Sunday, June 4, 2006 1:48 PM

VINTERDRAKEN


Ive always gotten the impression that many magistrates and other important officials are from the core. Also, sometimes it just is in everyones interest to do things quitlike. Look at reallife politics (modern and historic). When someone representing you, someone who you have put alot of word behind, starts following their own path you often cant just officially kill him or fire him.

You can’t stop the Signal.
Keep spreading the word about Firefly!

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Sunday, June 4, 2006 1:48 PM

VINTERDRAKEN


Ive always gotten the impression that many magistrates and other important officials are from the core. Also, sometimes it just is in everyones interest to do things quitlike. Look at reallife politics (modern and historic). When someone representing you, someone who you have put alot of word behind, starts following their own path you often cant just officially kill him or fire him.

You can’t stop the Signal.
Keep spreading the word about Firefly!

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Sunday, June 4, 2006 1:48 PM

VINTERDRAKEN


Ive always gotten the impression that many magistrates and other important officials are from the core. Also, sometimes it just is in everyones interest to do things quitlike. Look at reallife politics (modern and historic). When someone representing you, someone who you have put alot of word behind, starts following their own path you often cant just officially kill him or fire him.

You can’t stop the Signal.
Keep spreading the word about Firefly!

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Sunday, June 4, 2006 1:48 PM

VINTERDRAKEN


Ive always gotten the impression that many magistrates and other important officials are from the core. Also, sometimes it just is in everyones interest to do things quitlike. Look at reallife politics (modern and historic). When someone representing you, someone who you have put alot of word behind, starts following their own path you often cant just officially kill him or fire him.

You can’t stop the Signal.
Keep spreading the word about Firefly!

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Sunday, June 4, 2006 1:48 PM

VINTERDRAKEN


Ive always gotten the impression that many magistrates and other important officials are from the core. Also, sometimes it just is in everyones interest to do things quitlike. Look at reallife politics (modern and historic). When someone representing you, someone who you have put alot of word behind, starts following their own path you often cant just officially kill him or fire him.

You can’t stop the Signal.
Keep spreading the word about Firefly!

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Sunday, June 4, 2006 2:08 PM

CHRISTHECYNIC


I'm actually quite interested in what the Operative was going to say because he seems a good judge of character and I have no idea what Mal's sin would be.

I mean Mal just wants to go his way, he's not out to accomplish anything. The problem is that when the Operative was talking about sin Mal had been pushed out of his character and was trying to make a difference. That saves me the trouble of trying to assign a sin to wanting to go your own way, but it does bring up a problem, he’s not envying anyone, he's not doing it out of pride, he's not doing it out of the first four, and that only leaves one, which is the only one we can't rule out.

Wrath, he's getting revenge for those who can not avenge themselves. But it doesn't really feel like wrath to me.

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Sunday, June 4, 2006 11:30 PM

ONTHEDRIFT


Quote:
Originally posted by christhecynic:
I'm actually quite interested in what the Operative was going to say because he seems a good judge of character and I have no idea what Mal's sin would be.

I mean Mal just wants to go his way, he's not out to accomplish anything. The problem is that when the Operative was talking about sin Mal had been pushed out of his character and was trying to make a difference. That saves me the trouble of trying to assign a sin to wanting to go your own way, but it does bring up a problem, he’s not envying anyone, he's not doing it out of pride, he's not doing it out of the first four, and that only leaves one, which is the only one we can't rule out.

Wrath, he's getting revenge for those who can not avenge themselves. But it doesn't really feel like wrath to me.


I agree, it doesn't fell like wrath to me either. After all it seems like Mal is concerned more with finding some sort of JUSTICE for the victims, not necessarily seeking REVENGE against the perpetrators. To me that's a mighty big difference, and doesn't really fall into the "sin" category.
However, assuming that the Operative was thinking of one of the seven deadly sins, I think the only one it could be is wrath( :intense, vindictive anger or belligerence aroused by a real or supposed wrong). The Operative would be upset by anyone questioning the status quo or government line. He would be really pissed if someone got angry enough to then try to do something to change the situation or be seditious in any way; this would be a "sin" in his book.

I've always rather liked Mal's comment to the Operative as he plays the recording, "I'm going to show you a world without sin". Showing the Operative the brutal consequences of the Alliance's authority/actions, how could it not destroy his belief system. What a perfect device to illustrate what happens when a group of HUMANS try to play "Omniscient, Morally-Superior, Ego-Maniacs who somehow have a divine right to dictate to everyone else how they should live". Humans trying to exert complete control over a population or take away freedoms so the population can be less sinful - that always works well.

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Monday, June 5, 2006 9:31 AM

BROWNCOAT1

May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.


Definitely pride. I could see wrath, but I am thinking that the Operative was going to go w/ pride seeing as how Mal is taking on the Alliance and the Operative all but worships them.

__________________________________________

"May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one."

Richmond, VA & surrounding area Firefly Fans:

http://tv.groups.yahoo.com/group/richmondbrowncoats/

http://www.richmondbrowncoats.org


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Monday, June 5, 2006 9:41 AM

JOSSISAGOD


Well, The Operative usually says the sin of the people he kills is Pride, but with mal's history Wrath fits.

JOSSIS(Most Definitely)AGOD

Self appointed Forsaken! Been on the list for a while now!

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