Jayne's first betrayal by Dantien

FIREFLY EPISODE DISCUSSIONS

Jayne's first betrayal

POSTED BY: DANTIEN
UPDATED: Saturday, June 16, 2007 17:46
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Monday, April 24, 2006 3:56 AM

DANTIEN

Hi,
Just want to check, did Jayne give the knife to the Alliance mole in the pilot episode?

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Monday, April 24, 2006 4:14 AM

THUNDER

No at the end Mal asked if the mole tried to buy him off & Jayne said the money was'nt enough. If it had been Jayne would have shoot Mal when he was dealing with patience in the desert.

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Monday, April 24, 2006 5:50 PM

MILFORD

I'm not convinced. I don't think he did, but with Jayne you never can tell for sure. That one defines shifty.

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Wednesday, April 26, 2006 1:54 PM

CAUSAL

Quote:
Originally posted by milford:
I'm not convinced. I don't think he did, but with Jayne you never can tell for sure. That one defines shifty.

I've said it before, I'll say it again, and I'll get flamed once more: Jayne was never meant to be the mercenary-with-the-heart-of-gold that people seem to think he is. Milford's right--Jayne defines shifty. Had the series gone on, I bet dollars to donuts the money would have been good enough just in time for season finale cliff hanger. Face it--Jayne's a bad guy. Heck, he wears a hat!

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Friday, April 28, 2006 12:24 PM

BUK

Jayne wants to be incharge but his life runs on how much hes getting paid.

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Saturday, April 29, 2006 1:51 PM

ZISKER

I think it was left ambiguous intentionally. But my money is on "He gave it to the Fed"

And Casual - you're dead on. But which season? My money would be on two or three . . .

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Tuesday, May 2, 2006 7:16 AM

MILFORD

Dead on, Causal. You know Jayne won't change his stripes. He's loveable, he's funny, and he seems dumb. And that's why Joss would have him drop the others like a bad habit. Remember the scene in Serenity with Jayne after his blow-up with Mal. He clearly comes to a choice and goes after River. Now, does the Miranda situation change things? I think so. But in the Firefly world that wasn't, the seasons that we missed (

you FOX!), you know he would have turned on each one of them. Joss loves to do that. Remember Wesley on Angel and Willow on Buffy?

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Customizeable handmade baby gifts personalized by my wife! Check them out at www.baby-bobo.com. All proceeds go towards international adoption.

JUNE 23RD: Take part in our assault on Universal. Commit to buy a copy of Serenity or Firefly, or both, and write a letter to Universal, Joss, and the rest of the BDH's and let them know what we want!

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Tuesday, May 2, 2006 7:22 AM

CAUSAL

Quote:
Originally posted by Zisker:
And Casual - you're dead on. But which season? My money would be on two or three . . .

I think season two finale. He'd have been the first of things to come. First Jayne betrays. A season or two later Wash dies. A little after that (in my Firefly-that-wasn't fantasy) we'd've had a two-parter in which Book died and his background was finally revealed. But the folks that think Joss would have kept the 'verse static are nuts.

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Tuesday, May 2, 2006 7:29 AM

CAUSAL

Quote:
Originally posted by milford:
Dead on, Causal. You know Jayne won't change his stripes. He's loveable, he's funny, and he seems dumb. And that's why Joss would have him drop the others like a bad habit. Remember the scene in Serenity with Jayne after his blow-up with Mal. He clearly comes to a choice and goes after River.

Exactly! And don't forget, in the final episode of the series, OiS, River does not trust Jayne. She uses everyone else (but Book, interestingly) in her plot against Early, but even though Jayne could be easily wakened, she lets him snooze right through the fight. I think Joss would have continued to use little things like that to build up Jayne's bad-ness, while lulling us all into a false sense of security until BANG! All of the sudden, Jayne turns. Hell, he was about to turn right there in Serenity. And you know it wasn't out of concern for the well-being of the crew.

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Tuesday, May 2, 2006 8:34 AM

ZISKER

See, I lean more toward three simply because I recall somewhere Joss saying that Serenity was Season one and two - unless "we're goin' for a nice shuttle ride" became a three episode arc ending with Jayne not dying, but getting booted of the ship.

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Tuesday, May 30, 2006 2:33 PM

the movie is not the Series. Only the facts have been changed, to irritate the innocent; the names of the actors and characters remain the same

Quote:
Originally posted by Zisker:
I think it was left ambiguous intentionally.

I concur. Nonetheless, Jayne is loyal to Mal. Dobson offered him enough money to buy his own ship, one better than a Firefly, but it wasn't good enough to turn on the captain. Jayne could have been in charge at the end of the pilot but, to a large extent, "in charge" means "responsible" and, I don't think he wants to be. Jayne (like Inara, Mal, Book, probably Wash &, with one exception, Zoe) doesn't like complications.

And Jayne's first betrayal, that we see, is of Marko. Mal knew exactly what he was getting, and presumably could have left Jayne behind at any subsequent port. Instead, in the deal with Patience, Mal puts himself and Zoe under Jayne's gun, even though he's pretty sure Dobson tried to make a deal with Jayne. Not only is Jayne loyal to Mal, but Mal is willing to bet his & Zoe's life on that loyalty.

Slipping Dobson a knife was plausibly deniable.

Keep the Shiny Side Up . . .

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Friday, June 2, 2006 3:20 PM

J6NGO1977

Jaynes first big Betrayal is in 'Arial'. He was turned in Serenity. He blew away patience henchmen in serenity coz he was still loyal and mal still payed him. In 'Arial' he sells out Simon and River, to the alliance, and Mal sees this. That's why he wants to blow Jayne out the airlock. However that's the turning point for Jayne. He realises the crew of Serenity are worth more than a Pay Check.

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Tuesday, June 6, 2006 1:17 PM

TRAVELER

In Jaynetown we see Jayne actually being honest after he kills his expartner. He could have kept the pretence of helping the people with no one to dispute him. Mal would never have finked on him. But what did Jayne do? He pushed his own stayue down. I'll admit Jayne is no angel, but I think the rest of the crew are slowly turning him around. As for Jayne being afraid of responsibility the first thing he does when Mal is away from the ship is try to take command. Causing Simon to drug him in one episode. Also being told you can be killed by a thought tends to keep you honest around River. Or maybe I'm just a romantic.

And what do we do with the chain of command?

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Tuesday, June 6, 2006 1:17 PM

TRAVELER

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Tuesday, June 6, 2006 1:32 PM

CAVSCOUT

Quote:
Originally posted by YT:
Quote:
Originally posted by Zisker:
I think it was left ambiguous intentionally.

I concur. Nonetheless, Jayne is loyal to Mal. Dobson offered him enough money to buy his own ship, one better than a Firefly, but it wasn't good enough to turn on the captain. Jayne could have been in charge at the end of the pilot but, to a large extent, "in charge" means "responsible" and, I don't think he wants to be. Jayne (like Inara, Mal, Book, probably Wash &, with one exception, Zoe) doesn't like complications.

Is Jayne "loyal" to Mal or is he just afraid of what would happen if he screws him over?

-CavScout
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Tuesday, June 6, 2006 5:46 PM

RAVENHAIR

Nonetheless, Jayne is loyal to Mal. Dobson offered him enough money to buy his own ship, one better than a Firefly, but it wasn't good enough to turn on the captain. Jayne could have been in charge at the end of the pilot but, to a large extent, "in charge" means "responsible" and, I don't think he wants to be. Jayne (like Inara, Mal, Book, probably Wash &, with one exception, Zoe) doesn't like complications.

Slipping Dobson a knife was plausibly deniable.

Keep the Shiny Side Up . . .

I've always wondered about the money Dobson offers Jayne. It seemed to me to be a great deal of money for Jayne to turn down. I think I read a fanfic somewhere that Jayne does take the offer but Mal shoots the fed so no one is the wiser(except for Mal) about Jayne's betrayal. And Jayne expresses relief b/c he was starting to have second thoughts.

My first impression of the pilot was that Jayne, despite all the mercenary attitude, did respect Mal. In Ariel I get the impression that he really didn't think turning in the Tams was about Mal and loyalty. He was just getting rid of trouble.

Anyway, my .02.

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Tuesday, June 6, 2006 5:59 PM

the movie is not the Series. Only the facts have been changed, to irritate the innocent; the names of the actors and characters remain the same

Quote:
Originally posted by Ravenhair:
In Ariel I get the impression that he really didn't think turning in the Tams was about Mal and loyalty. He was just getting rid of trouble.

Yah, that's my take on it, too. And that's why Mal felt he had to make his point unmistakable.

Keep the Shiny Side Up . . .

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Wednesday, June 7, 2006 12:19 AM

SPACEANJL

Definitely concur on the above. Jayne was trying to protect 'his' crew by getting rid of the trouble element, (and the guy moving in on the girl he fancies.) Ariel, he thinks that the knife attack by River is personal, and that sways him, though she is just going for the logo. Also, he doesn't kill her in the Maidenhead, and she doesn't kill him, either. If he is the Cordelia character, then he's going to be a good guy, even if it makes him grouchy.

SpaceAnJL

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Thursday, June 8, 2006 8:42 PM

FLAME

OK, I'd just like to say that I don't think we can judge FIREFLY by whatever Joss did in BUFFY or ANGEL. I see a lot of people doing that, making character comparisons between the shows, and I don't think it's fair to Joss or FIREFLY to think he can only make a certain set type of characters, who will always behave in the same predetermined ways. I think he would have taken FIREFLY and the BDH in new directions.

With that said, Jayne, like all of the crew (except maybe Kaylee) is a mixture of good and bad. I don't think he has a "heart of gold" but he's not a big badass, either. C'mon, his mama knits him hats (and he wears them), she calls him her "dear boy," he feels bad about using his fame to hoodwink the mudders, he sends money home to his family, he brushes Helen's hair in HEART OF GOLD, and he whines and cowers like a baby when they fly through Reaver space.

~ Flame ~

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Friday, June 9, 2006 10:12 AM

J6NGO1977

Quote:
Originally posted by Flame:
OK, I'd just like to say that I don't think we can judge FIREFLY by whatever Joss did in BUFFY or ANGEL. I see a lot of people doing that, making character comparisons between the shows, and I don't think it's fair to Joss or FIREFLY to think he can only make a certain set type of characters, who will always behave in the same predetermined ways. I think he would have taken FIREFLY and the BDH in new directions.

With that said, Jayne, like all of the crew (except maybe Kaylee) is a mixture of good and bad. I don't think he has a "heart of gold" but he's not a big badass, either. C'mon, his mama knits him hats (and he wears them), she calls him her "dear boy," he feels bad about using his fame to hoodwink the mudders, he sends money home to his family, he brushes Helen's hair in HEART OF GOLD, and he whines and cowers like a baby when they fly through Reaver space.

~ Flame ~

SERENITY on the big screen in Raleigh, NC, June 22, 2006!!
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Yeh but wouldn't you whine and cower like a baby if you flew through Reaver space??? :) Jayne is a hard man but he knows Reavers have numbers and the only way to put a reaver down is to make sure they are dead. I think after Arial, Jayne was a changed man.

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Friday, June 9, 2006 12:25 PM

FLAME

Quote:
Originally posted by j6ngo1977:

Yeh but wouldn't you whine and cower like a baby if you flew through Reaver space??? :) Jayne is a hard man but he knows Reavers have numbers and the only way to put a reaver down is to make sure they are dead. I think after Arial, Jayne was a changed man.

I agree that Ariel was a serious point in Jayne's character development.

But, no one else on the bridge was whining and cowering in the corner... He's always been wussy about Reavers. Even in Bushwhacked, he didn't want to unload the cargo from the derelict because the Reavers had been there. ZOE: "Jayne, you'll scare the women."

~ Flame ~

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Saturday, June 10, 2006 5:24 AM

22CLAWS

Entirely pointy.

Quote:
Originally posted by milford:
Dead on, Causal. You know Jayne won't change his stripes. He's loveable, he's funny, and he seems dumb. And that's why Joss would have him drop the others like a bad habit. Remember the scene in Serenity with Jayne after his blow-up with Mal. He clearly comes to a choice and goes after River. Now, does the Miranda situation change things? I think so. But in the Firefly world that wasn't, the seasons that we missed ( you FOX!), you know he would have turned on each one of them. Joss loves to do that. Remember Wesley on Angel and Willow on Buffy?

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Customizeable handmade baby gifts personalized by my wife! Check them out at www.baby-bobo.com. All proceeds go towards international adoption.I think River made Jayne come after her. She had just suffered another Miranda vision. She makes Jayne attack her. Easily dispatches him. Then, convinces the crew to investigate Miranda.

JUNE 23RD: Take part in our assault on Universal. Commit to buy a copy of Serenity or Firefly, or both, and write a letter to Universal, Joss, and the rest of the BDH's and let them know what we want!

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Saturday, March 10, 2007 4:44 PM

ASORTAFAIRYTALE

Quote:
Originally posted by Dantien:
did Jayne give the knife to the Alliance mole in the pilot episode?

I don't think that he did, just because he asks "Would helping you out mean turning on the captain?" and I think that he does have some respect for Mal, even if it doesn't seem like it. Even in Ariel he didn't think he was betraying Mal, only the Tams, whom he doesn't really like. And then there's also the fact that Jayne doesn't shoot Mal when he could've in the pilot.

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Saturday, March 24, 2007 6:13 AM

LADYKNIGHT

I'd always assumed that Jayne decided to play it safe in the pilot eposode. Tells the fed he won't help...much, drops a knife about two feet away. That way he'd helped, so he'd get his coin if the fed one, but it'd been untracable, so he wouldn't get shot if Mal won. I think Jayne had a best-case scenerio set up in his head, and was hoping on that. Namely, Fed gets out, takes the doc and moonbrain, and gets away before Mal, Jayne, and Zoe got back. Then, the fed wires him a lot of money for his help. Leave him a knife, leave the ship, and play his part. He's clean no matter who wins.

Yes, I do think Jayne's that smart.

As far as him turning on his previous crew...did those look like three men who got along? Seriously, he shared a bunk with one of them! They probablly had some dinky little rig that was giving them all cabin fever. More money, better working conditions, and getting away from people he'd been cramped up with goodness-knows-how-long? Yeah, that's worth taking.

If the series had continued, I think Jayne would have had many, many oppurtunities to turn on Mal...and wouldn't take them. Then, sometime, I'd say near the end of season 3, he freaks out 'cause he can't figure out why, gets in over his head on an outside deal and...well, who knows?

One day.
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One army of Browncoats.
On June 23rd, we aim to misbehave.
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Saturday, March 24, 2007 7:53 AM

MANWITHPEZ

Important people don't do field work.

I, for one, do not think Jayne left the knife for Dobson.

Just to point this out, however, Jayne was very prepared to leave Mal and Zoe on Paradiso in The Train Job. Whether or not he intended to come back for them, or his idea was to run and regroup, we never got to find out.

Of course, the rest of the crew wouldn't have stood for just leaving them, but, you never can tell what Jayne was thinking of.

At least, I can't!

In an edit: Hey? Is Serenity really going to be playing in Raleigh in June?

Kaylee: "What's so damn important about being proper? It don't mean nothing out here in the black."
Simon: "It means more out here. It's all I have..."

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Sunday, March 25, 2007 12:59 PM

KAIO

I think Jayne is a merc-with-a-HoG.

I mean, Jayne was travelling with Marco before, but Marco was just a crook. Serenity is much more of a family, and we can tell that Jayne has always been part of a family, and can be part of one. (Mattie is still sick with the damplung

)

In The Train Job, he wants to leave Mal because A) He wants to get the money and B) He knows everyone else on the ship is dead meat if they don't get the cargo to Niska.

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Sunday, March 25, 2007 1:28 PM

NBZ

Quote:
Originally posted by Kaio:
I think Jayne is a merc-with-a-HoG.

I mean, Jayne was travelling with Marco before, but Marco was just a crook. Serenity is much more of a family, and we can tell that Jayne has always been part of a family, and can be part of one. (Mattie is still sick with the damplung )

I do not see how that is relevant. Yes, he has family, but that does not mean anything. it does not make him softer or harder.

Quote:
In The Train Job, he wants to leave Mal because A) He wants to get the money and B) He knows everyone else on the ship is dead meat if they don't get the cargo to Niska.

B is conjecture.

having disagreed with you, I have to slightly agree and say he does have his own principles and priorirites.

1. Him.
2. The crew.
3. The Tams. (he does not consider them crew. Just a liability that has got attached to them and will likely get them all killed.)

As an example, the money in the pilot definitely was good enough, but he did not take it.

In Ariel the money was also good and he went for it. 2 major differences. One was that he had been stabbed. Second, the rest of the crew would not go down with the Tams and would be rid of a liability.

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Sunday, March 25, 2007 5:22 PM

KAIO

Quote:
Originally posted by nbz:
Quote:
Originally posted by Kaio:
I think Jayne is a merc-with-a-HoG.

I mean, Jayne was travelling with Marco before, but Marco was just a crook. Serenity is much more of a family, and we can tell that Jayne has always been part of a family, and can be part of one. (Mattie is still sick with the damplung )

I do not see how that is relevant. Yes, he has family, but that does not mean anything. it does not make him softer or harder.

It makes a difference. Think about how different adults who grew up with close-knit stable families differ from adults who come from broken homes? It's not an exact 100%, but it is a goodly percentage.

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Monday, March 26, 2007 9:44 AM

LAWMAN

great discussion, as always. i'm with ladyknight. good logic. as is in the verse, nothing ever matches up exactly with the series and bdm. but i definitely see jayne dropping the razor on the floor. i see the interesting day coming up in season 3 (if wishes were horses...), where jayne does make his move overtly against mal.

i'll be in my bunk

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Friday, June 15, 2007 11:54 AM

BROWNCOATSANDINISTA

I think in the BDM, Jayne has warmed up slightly to the Tams, because when River goes all crazy and violent, he doesn't just punch her in the face to deal with her. He comes behind her and tries to reason with her while keeping her from doing any more damage to the rest of the people. Since at that point the Tams are not part of the crew, he wouldn't be doing it to protect the crew's reputatoin, and I seriously doubt he was doing it to turn her in for the money. Granted, afterwards he seems to do an about face and goes back to asking "Didn't we have this whole plan about how they were gonna not be here anymore?" So why then did he try to calm her down instead of just coldcocking her? Is he chivalrous? He certainly wasn't trying to hurt her, and even when she grabbed him ((Though this may be due to shock and confusion [To me his face just screams "I should not have told her about those".])) he didn't try to throw her around.

In Ariel, it certainly seems plausible that he was just trying to remove a foreign source of trouble for his family//crew on the ship. In Bushwhacked when they're playing the game in the hold he seems to be having genuine fun with the others, co-operating with them to the point where Kaylee was on his shoulders to give them the advantage, which I think would show at least his familiarity and comfort with them. He shows remorse about what he did to the captain, and concern for what the crew will think of him after he is gone.

I like the idea of Jayne assisting the fed obliquely enough to avoid incrimination if Mal won, because that seems to be a very Jayne thing to do.

In the Firefly-that-would-have-been-except-for-Fux I think Jayne would have become a much more Machiavellian, Manipulative character. He could possibly turn on Mal & Co, but I don't think he would as it gives him a certain level of anonymity and makes him less likely to be the focus of an investigation.

"I'm not going to say Serenity is the greatest SciFi movie ever; oh wait yes I am." - Orson Scott Card

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Friday, June 15, 2007 12:28 PM

MSG

I think Jayne is very untrustworthy, but he has a deep respect ( in a sense) for women. Think about it. He might make a pile of crude comments, but have you ever seen him strike a woman with extreme violence? He was raised by his mom and I think he's reasonably gentle with women. Not that he for one minute is sensitive or some such, but he's kind, and genuinely sweet with them. He'd definitely sell out someone if he thought he could get away with it, but you see Jayne grow more in each episode to the point where, in the BDM, he's willing to risk his life for River and the crew with absolutely no possibility of a reward. I'd say Jayne's a pragmatist. He knows how the world works, takes care of number one, but isn't in any way evil. He's just trying to get along in the world.

"I'm not all that interested in the mental health of people who want to kill me. "- Leroy Jethro Gibbs

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Friday, June 15, 2007 12:45 PM

TERRI

I agree, Jayne's a bit of a lowlife. That goes without saying. But here's the thing that makes me not quite agree with you. Watching 'The Message' got me thinking about the way Jayne reads his mom's letter, and then proceeds to wear the hat with pride. Jayne's got a thing for family. So, maybe he starts getting comfortable with Mal & Co. This leaves Jayne's stupidity. He's a dumb guy, and I think that if something caused him to betray the occupants of Serenity, I don't think it'll be because of lack of fidelity. I think it'll be lack of smarts.

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Friday, June 15, 2007 1:20 PM

CAUSAL

Quote:
Originally posted by msg:
He was raised by his mom...

Just curious, but what makes you say this? The only reference I can think of to Jayne's mother is in TM, and all she did was send him a hat and a letter. You seem to be suggesting that it was just Jayne's mom who raised him, and as far as I can see, there isn't enough data to warrant that conclusion...

Of course, you might be better read than me--I haven't got all the books, so I might be missing something!

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Friday, June 15, 2007 1:31 PM

NBZ

Jayne's father is still present and alive. From "The Message":

Quote:
"Thank you for the credits you forwarded, they have helped as Matty is still sick with the Damplung. He waves hello, and so does your father.

He is in good spirits and there was layoffs but the foreman said no one can weld like a Cobb so he has
employment still. I made you the enclosed"

If (or rather when) Jayne betrays the crew IMO it will be about Mal. He may be a merc, but he has some sort of respect for Mal. Until he loses that respect - or has an offer that makes him overlook it, he will me grumbling and loyal.

People take him to be too much of a romantic. You don't restrain someone on your side by lugging them one - no matter if you like them or not. He probably did not think River would take him down. After all she is a lot smaller than he is. And crazy to boot.

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Friday, June 15, 2007 3:41 PM

TERRI

Quote:
Originally posted by nbz:
You don't restrain someone on your side by lugging them one - no matter if you like them or not.

Who does he lug, again? Not River...

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Friday, June 15, 2007 3:54 PM

NBZ

Quote:
Originally posted by Terri:
Quote:
Originally posted by nbz:
You don't restrain someone on your side by lugging them one - no matter if you like them or not.

Who does he lug, again? Not River...

Not suggesting he lugged anyone. Just that he would not have hit her even if he absolutely hated her guts. They are (were) on the same side.

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Friday, June 15, 2007 4:01 PM

ZZETTA13

Don’t think that it’s been mentioned here but I do believe that Jayne’s first betrayal was in the OoG eps where he turned against his then band of marauders and links sides with Mal and Zoey. Didn’t look as if it were that hard to win him over either. If Joss’ plans were to have Jayne viewed as a loyal/trusted crew member then it must be in future eps of FF or another BDM because even in Serenity he still carried that “all for Jayne and Jayne for all” posture.

Zoey “Think any one of us is going to get outta here alive!!?”

Jayne “ Well I might!!”

Z

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Friday, June 15, 2007 4:14 PM

NBZ

You are forgetting Stitch Hessian from Jaynestown.

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Saturday, June 16, 2007 2:05 PM

ZZETTA13

Quote:
Originally posted by nbz:
You are forgetting Stitch Hessian from Jaynestown.

You're right NBZ he did chunk 'ol Stitch outta that shuttlecraft years earlier. My wife can't stand him (Jayne) but I tell her, "Don't hate poor Jayne for being transparent." besides, he's my icon

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Saturday, June 16, 2007 2:47 PM

NBZ

Poor old Jayne. He's too set in his ways to change. More importantly he enjoys his life too much to want to change.

There must be comfort to being the untrustworthy one. Unlike the rest of the crew, he does not have to sleep with one eye open. Could get a mite comfortable with status quo.

However all three situations are different:

With Stitch it was about survival. Was he willing to go down for the sake of helping out his partner? No.

With Marco, he simply did not respect the guy. It is sort of apparent in the scene we have in OoG.

With Mal, he does respect the guy. Both do think in a similar wavelength. His issue with River is not about dislike, but more about her being a liability. He was on a cushy job and the Tam's showed up changing everything. They have to be more careful with everything.

In Trash Inara suggests that Mal has not been looking for "serious work" before Mal cuts her off. Question is since when? the two options (IMO) are since Niska, or since the Tam's arrived.

If it is since the Tam's arrived, it could grate on Jayne that they are taking riskier jobs that potentially pay less just to protect their passengers. Must also irritate his greedy side.
It's a shame Firefly did not continue to show more sides of their characters.

They certainly have to be more careful going to more respectable places as that would involve more security.

(Offtopic, but I for one am certain Mal has a manipulative side to him. Probably essential to be a good leader. It is hinted at in the pilot and in Bushwacked, but nothing concrete.)

PS I would not call Jayne dim. he does have some street smarts. Just not as scholarly as the rest...

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Saturday, June 16, 2007 3:35 PM

ZZETTA13

Some very good points made NBZ. Yepper life was simpler in Jaynes eyes before the arrival of the Tams and Shepherd Book. Still I feel the preacher is welcome by Jayne with all the interaction they have. The problem is the Tams. First, they’re trouble. They get in the way and Jayne and the crew could gain financially if they were removed the right way. Then there’s Simon Tam all by himself. Jayne’s competition for Kaylee. Before Simon, and let me alter a line from Mr. Tam in the Message eps. “Jayne was the only guy in town.” Mal is like Kaylee’s big brother. Wash is taken. That left Jayne as the only prospective male onboard Serenity and he knew it. Jayne feels threatened by Simon’s “brains over brawn” avenue to Kaylee’s heart. He’s still a mama’s boy. Having respect only for his mother when it comes to women, or one that can kick his ass like Zoe. Still I find that “the man-ape gone wrong thing” could find love in the bosom of a nurturing woman. Maybe on that women’s prison planet next to Miranda……

Now, Jayne is no dummy. He’s smart enough to know when he’s got a good thing going and you’re right it woulda been a fun ride to see where Joss was taking us.We browncoats are hoping the ride isn’t over.

Z

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Saturday, June 16, 2007 5:46 PM

OPTIM

Quote:
Originally posted by milford:
I'm not convinced. I don't think he did, but with Jayne you never can tell for sure. That one defines shifty.

very true, his untrustworthy character makes the show so much more damn interesting

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