Hindsight Shepherd Book and Inara by Ty

FIREFLY EPISODE DISCUSSIONS

Hindsight Shepherd Book and Inara

POSTED BY: TY
UPDATED: Thursday, January 22, 2004 12:17
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 9639
PAGE 1 of 1

Monday, October 6, 2003 12:21 PM

I was re-watching Serenity last night and I noticed this: The scene with Shepherd and Inara; 'when he was questioning whether or not it was a good decision to be on Serenity and Inara comforted him by nursing the bruise on his head and a few kind words'
I think that we know certain things about Shepherd Book, now that we've seen or are aware of the first season...so as I re-watched that scene, I began to wonder, "what is Shepherd Book up to?"
Why did he pretend to be so at a loss and so innocent to Inara? How can Inara be used as a pawn by him? What did his little act spark in Inara's mind or in her heart? I need someone to help me with this thought.
Book knows a lot, we've found that out as the series progressed but what would his lying about his uncertainty of traveling with the crew of Serenity as a "simple preacher" serve to him or any of his colleagues?

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, October 6, 2003 1:04 PM

LIVINGIMPAIRED

I recently re-watched “Serenity” as well, and I had similar thoughts. My theory is that Book used to work for the Alliance, but eventually he couldn't live with the immoral things he had and was doing, so he became a Shepard. After a few years in the monastery, he decides to re-enter the world to help those that are like the man he used to be. What I get out of that Inara-Book scene is not innocence, but a fear that he crawled out of one moral sinkhole only to fall back into it again.

________________

Brought you some supper, but if you'd prefer a lecture, I've a few very catchy ones prepped. Sin and hellfire... one has lepers.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, October 6, 2003 1:46 PM

LINDYCAT

Hi,

I concur with LivingImpaired, I feel Book was honest in his words in that scene.

LC

Just as the War Against Drugs would make some kind of sense if they honestly called it a War Against Some Drugs, I regard Dubya's current Kampf as a War Against Some Terrorists. I may remain wed to that horrid heresy until he bombs CIA headquarters in Langrty. - RAW

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, October 6, 2003 10:37 PM

DRAKON

Quote:
Why did he pretend to be so at a loss and so innocent to Inara?

I don't think it whas pretense. I think he was lost. He'd been in the abbey for what, 6 years or so? And now, with his faith, he was out in the world just a couple days, got involved in a gun fight, nearly beaten to death by a guy whose life he swore to protect and defend, only to see that person shot dead. And was not all that sure it was a bad thing.

I gotta go back to my "hot house" faith idea from earlier. Its one thing to have all the answers in a nice safe environment like an abbey. But in the real world ain't like the abbey. So are the answers wrong, does the faith not work at fixing you? Did God lie to Book?

"Wash, where is my damn spaceship?"

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, October 7, 2003 3:19 AM

Thank you all for your responses, however, why is 'anyone' believing what came out of his mouth? To merely speculate, Book himself could be a reader and let's not forget, he has a vast amount of knowledge in that brain of his. What type of information it is, Joss will inform us of that gradually.
To my thinking, it is virtually impossible for him to be feeling exactly as his words suggest. The 'particular' ship he finds himself on just happens to be carrying 2 of the MOST WANTED Alliance fugitives in the galaxy AND per "Book's" unexpected and highly relevant "reception" by the Alliance cruiser after having his ident card scanned in 'Safe', I feel he is much the 'man about town' and should I really believe, knowing Joss' previous works that Shepherd really did just get out of a monastery? I mean-Huh? I think that the monastery thing is a cover and when this show flies again, we'll find out everything....by the way, it will begin again, it's too good not to.

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, October 7, 2003 5:21 AM

SUCCATASH

TY, I think it is quite possible that either Inara or Book (or both) is lying during that scene.

A while back I made a thread called "Inara knows about Book the whole time." You might enjoy reading it.

http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=4&t=2072

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, October 7, 2003 5:47 AM

CHANNAIN

i DO aim to misbehave

Quote:
Originally posted by Ty:
To my thinking, it is virtually impossible for him to be feeling exactly as his words suggest. The 'particular' ship he finds himself on just happens to be carrying 2 of the MOST WANTED Alliance fugitives in the galaxy AND per "Book's" unexpected and highly relevant "reception" by the Alliance cruiser after having his ident card scanned in 'Safe', I feel he is much the 'man about town' and should I really believe, knowing Joss' previous works that Shepherd really did just get out of a monastery?

Knowing Joss' previous works, I think it's safe to say that you really can't predict a gorram thing. Joss has never done anything the same way twice, and just when you think you've got him pegged, he pulls a green demon rabbit out of his hat and we get to be completely blown away all over again.

That said, I believe Book is exactly what he says he is - A Shepherd bringing the word to them as need it told, with a few extra elements in his background that give him a very unique perspective on the world he's walking around in. The bare fact is we don't know yet what his position was in the Alliance. Until we do, we won't know for sure what that scene in Inara's quarters was all about.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, October 7, 2003 6:46 AM

This show has got to come back to the air. The speculations on 1 character alone are like Lays potato chips...'you can't have just one.'

I LOVE FIREFLY!!!!

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, October 7, 2003 6:56 AM

CHANNAIN

i DO aim to misbehave

Quote:
Originally posted by Ty:
This show has got to come back to the air. The speculations on 1 character alone are like Lays potato chips...'you can't have just one.'

I LOVE FIREFLY!!!!

Now THAT I'm totally in agreement with.

You'd ask, "Which one? The show has to come back, the speculations or Loving Firefly?"

My answer would be, "YES!"

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, December 19, 2003 10:38 AM

PAUSTARK

I just watched Objects in Space for the first time. When Simon criticized the Bounty Hunter for knocking out Book the Bounty Hunter looked at Book and Said "He's no Shepherd", what did he mean by that? Ok, before you answer, I have not seen the rest of the EPs so Book could be exactly who he is. Did anynone else pick up on that?

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, December 19, 2003 10:38 AM

PAUSTARK

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, December 19, 2003 10:38 AM

PAUSTARK

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, December 19, 2003 10:38 AM

PAUSTARK

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, December 19, 2003 12:43 PM

GEORDIESTEVE2003

I think the bounty hunter Early either worked for the Alliance at one point, or he has done jobs for them, and hence knows some big wigs in the Alliance. I'm totally speculating. I think Book did indeed work for them, do some pretty nasty things, couldnt live with his conscience and went to the monastary to cleanse his soul. He regained or gained his faith, went back out into the world and fell in with some thieves, not what he had expecting. But he also seems to think that by being with some of the worst, he can do some good, because he knows there is some good in everyone onboard Serenity, even someone who doesnt approve his faith like Mal. I also dont think Book was pretending, I think he thought he had come out of the monastary too soon and was not ready for the big bad world, and Inara helped soothe his worries, an interesting turnaround for a preacher and a Companion.

Quote:
Originally posted by paustark:
I just watched Objects in Space for the first time. When Simon criticized the Bounty Hunter for knocking out Book the Bounty Hunter looked at Book and Said "He's no Shepherd", what did he mean by that? Ok, before you answer, I have not seen the rest of the EPs so Book could be exactly who he is. Did anynone else pick up on that?

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Saturday, December 20, 2003 12:47 AM

DRAKON

Yep, the problem is that we just don't know. They cancelled the show before Joss could let us in on the secret. Possibilities include;
1) Former Alliance secret police officer of high rank (note Book's treatment in "Safe")
2) Former high ranking Alliance military offical.
3) Present member of one of the two branches above, working undercover.
4) He might really be a preacher now, now dealing with the sins of his past out in the real world.

Sorry this is not more helpful. Blame Faux

"Wash, where is my damn spaceship?"

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Saturday, December 20, 2003 8:36 PM

ZACHSMIND

After watching all the episodes of Firefly a couple times on DVD, I've come to the ..belief, for lack of a better word, that Shepherd Book is actually an ex-Alliance officer who was prominent in the battle for Serenity that ended the war. He may have been the reason inadvertently why all the remaining soldiers were left for dead on both sides during the negotiation. Perhaps Book was the negotiator who demanded none of the soldiers be rescued until a settlement between the two sides could be found. After discovering the folly of his rash actions, even though his diplomacy led to a settlement and saved the Alliance and countless lives, he also inadvertently left countless soldiers die of starvation and treatable wounds on the battlefield. So this guilt led him to find solace in theology. He wanted to leave the Alliance, but was so high up an officer that he couldn't just disappear. So he put in for retirement and was going to live out the rest of his days in the Abbey.

Why he actually left the Abbey could have been an episode by itself, and woulda started a chain reaction that tells us his story. I think what Early meant when he said Book wasn't a shepherd was that his intuitive mind picked up on Shepherd's more military background. That he hasn't always been a man of the cloth, and has been a preacher man for so short a time as to not intuitively seem like it.

"You don't fix faith, River. It fixes you."

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, December 29, 2003 10:04 AM

SGTRAUKSAUFF

I think that at that point in Inara's chamber, he could have been testing. Testing Mal through the perceptions of other people, finding out if Inara, being a non-crewmember, would be a possible recruit to spy on them for him, or many other things.. Or, maybe he wanted to get some, but it would blow his cover, so he came up with that idea to at least spend some time with a companion. I got the impression that a companion's services are not _only_ sex, but could include companionship and comfort as well, or instead of....

I knew you let her kiss you!

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, January 6, 2004 4:37 PM

AHCLEM

Hello, all. I'm new to this list and new to Firefly having just discovered it.

I've been limiting myself to one episode a night to make my enjoyment stretch a little further. I'm not quite through watching all the episodes yet, but I came to the same conclusion as Zachsmind. In fact, I think Shepherd Book's real name is General Richard Wilkins. He's the alliance general who won the battle of Serenity Valley. He's mentioned in deleted scene 75 of "Serenity".

Best Regards,

Ah Clem

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, January 7, 2004 5:18 AM

ZACHSMIND

*INTENSE HIGH SPECULATION ALERT - YELLOW*

Actually I'd have to say Book was in that room when General Richard Wilkins sold the independent resistance up the proverbial river to the Alliance. Book was among a group of men who cut a deal with the Alliance for amnesty and other perks in return for ending the war in the Alliance's favor. This is why all the Alliance needed was his Ident Card and then they took him to their infirmary, no further questions asked.

However, Book couldn't be Wilkins cuz Mal and other people probably know what Wilkins looks like. Wilkins is for the Firefly universe what General Robert E Lee was for the Civil War. He was the most prominent and remembered general of the losing side of the war. Kinda hard to believe Wilkins/Book could just change his name, grow his hair and hide as a priest.

Book was a silent partner who avoided the spotlight and supported Wilkins during the war, but didn't much like selling out. I doubt he had much choice. To appease his guilt, Book went into the clergy. He spent the years after the war in the equivalent of a monastery, and just before the episode Serenity he mustered up the courage to face society again.

Book may even be in contact with an underground unit of Independent loyalists struggling to find a foothold that'd enable them to reprise the war. His placement on Serenity may not be accidental. We know he spurned another flyer before he approached Kaylee, and though he acted coy and noncommittal, Kaylee noticed Book was not looking for destinations but ships. He wanted to fly on Serenity before Kaylee 'sold' him on the idea. He also knew his way around Kaylee's engine room to "go to the head of the class" so to speak by the episode's end.

If you watch the shows again, assuming as a given that Book is perpetually 'playing' dumb and pretending the role of Shepherd, Ron Glass' performance suddenly takes on a whole new radiance. Brilliant actually, provided it was intentional. Glass' performance it multifaceted and purposefully vague in order to leave it open to the viewer's interpretation, but not in a way that feels trite or indecisive on the part of the actor. Book is revealed to us like that picture of a vase that upon closer inspection can also be the profile of two people kissing. Ron Glass plays with what his character says AND what he doesn't say, and we learn as much from the negative spaces as from the metaphorical objects in Shepherd Book's space.

Ron Glass once again demonstrates his versatility and remarkable stage presence as a veteran actor. Glass could sell you the brooklyn bridge if ya let'm. Great talent. Perfect casting.

------------------------------
"Hang on, travelers..."

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, January 7, 2004 8:51 AM

KURUKAMI

Quote:
Originally posted by geordiesteve2003:
I think the bounty hunter Early either worked for the Alliance at one point, or he has done jobs for them, and hence knows some big wigs in the Alliance. I'm totally speculating. I think Book did indeed work for them, do some pretty nasty things, couldnt live with his conscience and went to the monastary to cleanse his soul.
Quote:
Originally posted by paustark:
I just watched Objects in Space for the first time. When Simon criticized the Bounty Hunter for knocking out Book the Bounty Hunter looked at Book and Said "He's no Shepherd", what did he mean by that? Ok, before you answer, I have not seen the rest of the EPs so Book could be exactly who he is. Did anynone else pick up on that?

An interesting take might well be that Book was once, himself, an independent bounty hunter, one who signed up with the Alliance during the War for Unification, served well, but grew sickened by the unending violence and atrocities on both sides of the conflict. After leaving the Alliance military (at a fairly high rank), he retired to the Abbey to contemplate his life and try to fit his sense of morality into a newfound spiritual belief.

Thus, Early could know him because, once upon a time, they were in the same profession. This could also explain Book's surprising proficiency with hand-to-hand combat and firearms, as well as his familiarity with interstellar organized crime factions and methods.

History doesn't always repeat itself. Sometimes it merely shouts "Weren't you listening the first time?!?" and lets fly with a club.

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, January 7, 2004 9:53 AM

GEORDIESTEVE2003

I think as it turns out we are both on the wrong lines about Book and his past, although he may have served in the Alliance at some point.

If you watch the DVD and listen to the commentary by Joss Whedon on Objects you will hear him speak about River and Early, and how the two are similar and very different. River is psychic, and Early is just very very intuitive. He knows how to deal with each person to disable them, ie threatening Kaylee, taking out Mal, and also taking out Book immediately. Early knows just from looking at him Book is a man of action and is not a Shepherd really, despite the clothing. So he knocks him out. I dont actually think either man had actually met the other prior to that day, but when face to face, both would recognise what the other really was simply by looking at his face and eyes.

Quote:
Originally posted by Kurukami:
Quote:
Originally posted by geordiesteve2003:
I think the bounty hunter Early either worked for the Alliance at one point, or he has done jobs for them, and hence knows some big wigs in the Alliance. I'm totally speculating. I think Book did indeed work for them, do some pretty nasty things, couldnt live with his conscience and went to the monastary to cleanse his soul.
Quote:
Originally posted by paustark:
I just watched Objects in Space for the first time. When Simon criticized the Bounty Hunter for knocking out Book the Bounty Hunter looked at Book and Said "He's no Shepherd", what did he mean by that? Ok, before you answer, I have not seen the rest of the EPs so Book could be exactly who he is. Did anynone else pick up on that?

An interesting take might well be that Book was once, himself, an independent bounty hunter, one who signed up with the Alliance during the War for Unification, served well, but grew sickened by the unending violence and atrocities on both sides of the conflict. After leaving the Alliance military (at a fairly high rank), he retired to the Abbey to contemplate his life and try to fit his sense of morality into a newfound spiritual belief.

Thus, Early could know him because, once upon a time, they were in the same profession. This could also explain Book's surprising proficiency with hand-to-hand combat and firearms, as well as his familiarity with interstellar organized crime factions and methods.

History doesn't always repeat itself. Sometimes it merely shouts "Weren't you listening the first time?!?" and lets fly with a club.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, January 7, 2004 3:19 PM

SPIKESPIEGEL

I concur with GeordieSteve ... I took Early's "He's no shepherd" comment not to mean he recognized Book, but was intuitive enough to know from the way Book moves and acts that he's something more dangerous than a preacher. Just as you can sometimes spot a dancer's or martial artist's grace, a really skilled warrior ought to notice the same in someone else.

Note how Mal defers to Book, in terms of tactics, in "The Message" (and elsewhere?). I think Mal, too, recognizes that Book's skills go beyond what you pick up in an abbey.

"Bang."

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, January 8, 2004 2:58 AM

FURY

Hey all, been prowling these forums for awhile now and thought i may as well give my two cents.

To me i definatly think that Book is a sheperd, dont ask me why, i really have no proof, but i beleive he became a sheperd because of questionable deeds he did in his past.

Now what where these deeds? I think he was an alliance special forces equivilant or some seriously high ranking offical. Why? I the mesages when the alliance "freelancers" where after them it was book who noticed the fact that there was a alliance base and that the purusirs did not check in, No one else noticed this and lets face it, mal zoe ad wash aint are pretty bright.

In war stories he leaps to the fore with obvious skill and some of these leaks into objects in space. Early is a damm good bounty hunter we dont deny that, yet Book heard him, i think special ops could of done that.

Also because of safe and that id thing :)

I could ramble more, but we can all hope some of these questions get answered when there is a firefly movie.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, January 8, 2004 12:56 PM

TOM

I like the idea by Zachsmind that Book was with the Brown coats. It would be interesting if he was there to recruit Mal and Zoe to fight agian. After all if you watch the deleted scenes Mal was in charge of 2000 troops near the end. To actually survive all the fighting and with all that happened to get many out alive. Well, that is a man a general would want on his side.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, January 11, 2004 6:42 PM

HERO

Just watched "Out of Gas" again. First time I've watched it since I watched all the commentary. At one point Joss says that there are Inara clues scattered around so I've been paying extra attention to her close up scenes.

I'm officially abandoning my "Inara is the Alien" theory (note: I have an alien theory for every character except Mal and Wash, after all Joss swears there is no alien and there's no apparant alien, what better place to then put an alien then right up front). My new theory is:

"INARA IS DYING" Thats right. She'd not on the run. She was ambitous and on the fast track and she gave it all up because she has a terminal illness and thats the REAL reason she went to the hospital on Ariel and why she wants to leave Serenity and it will make a great plot twist for the film so HA! Its the future, people still get sick and die.

I figured it out, all with my own mind and nobody had to die...except Inara.

Ok, tell me why I'm wrong.

H

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, January 11, 2004 7:58 PM

SHINY

Hero, I believe that may be part of it (in the Out of Gas commentary, Tim Minear says there is a clue in the scene with Inara and Simon, where she says "I don't want to die at all") but I don't think that's the only thing going on with Inara. Partly because of how she reacts to Mal in Out of Gas ("You don't have to die alone"), I don't think she would be so afraid of being 'tied' to Mal as she says at the end of Heart of Gold. I think she has some important mystery mission of some kind that she needs to fulfill, which getting too tied down to the Mal's 'family' would interfere with. The mystery syringe that Joss mentions in the commentary for Serenity probably also has something to do with it...

RIVER
Purple elephants are flying.
MAL
Good. Thanks for the update.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, January 11, 2004 8:36 PM

NICKTESLA

I don't think there's anything out of character in this scene with Inara & Book. The Shepard is plainly a man who, much like Mal, has undergone a life-changing experience.

Much of that change was spent behind the cloistered walls of his abbey--it appears that his journey aboard Serenity is his first time away from that institution. We're talking years here.

His ident card (in Safe), his knowledge of firearms, crime and criminals are all huge, yet foggy clues to his past.

Law enforcement? You'd think he'd be more upset over the crew's "criminal" acts--though none oftheminclude cold-blooded murder or other crimes against persons.

Allience officer? I like this theory, though the clues are scanty.

Former governement offical? Perhaps a cabinet-level politician or diplomat...

Hopefully, Joss will be able to let this story unfold before our eyes--sooner would be better than later...

Nick Tesla
http://tesla-pc.com
Computing that makes sense...

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, January 11, 2004 8:37 PM

SHADESIREN

Here's something... What if Book is not anything special in and of himself, exactly, but ratherm connected to or related to someone who is. Our original speculation on Shepherd book was that perhaps he was the brother or other relation of a high-rnaking Alliance official or something along those lines. I can see him being the brother of someone special.

his knowledge of firearms is a puzzle. Knowing what kind of weapon and what kind of person shot the guys in the head in War Stories speaks of experience with weapon - perhaps he was in the military prior to his becoming a shepherd? Honestly, his scene with Inara, to me, was very honest. He seemed to really feel he was in a quandry, a true moral mire of did I do right or wrong - I belive he really felt that perhaps he'd made a mistake. I think that Inara's advice was a big help, too.

He knew he was in the place he needed to be. He comes from a highly placed background, one with some serious military training, as far as observing people, knowing what they will do (how far they will go) and recognizing some scary wounds and weaponry - but I think that it's not QUITE as conviluted as some might think.

just my 2 and a half cents worth :)

(the half is from my hubby, lol)

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, January 11, 2004 8:42 PM

MANIACNUMBERONE

Quote:
Originally posted by SpikeSpiegel:
I concur with GeordieSteve ... I took Early's "He's no shepherd" comment not to mean he recognized Book, but was intuitive enough to know from the way Book moves and acts that he's something more dangerous than a preacher. Just as you can sometimes spot a dancer's or martial artist's grace, a really skilled warrior ought to notice the same in someone else.

Note how Mal defers to Book, in terms of tactics, in "The Message" (and elsewhere?). I think Mal, too, recognizes that Book's skills go beyond what you pick up in an abbey.

"Bang."

I agree with you, but not completely. I think Early could have seen something in Book that led him to believe Book was more than he appeared, but what did he see? I mean Early saw Book walk around with a cup for about 5 or 10 seconds. I didn't see anything in there that made Book seem more than a shepherd. Of course, I'm not Early either.

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Saturday, January 17, 2004 8:32 PM

UNICORN

When Book first appears, it's in his meeting with Kaylee, and she notices that he's not looking at destinations, he's looking at ships.

I think Book meant to find Mal. I think he's looking for a disreputable Firefly class ship owned by Malcolm Reynolds. I do think the Alliance higher-up or ex-Alliance scenario is on target. I'm not sure whether I believe he is truly a retired agent-turned man-of-faith, or whether I think he's totally faking it.

But after the scene in "Our Mrs. Reynolds" where Inara tells Mal that "You can't play a player," I am more convinced than ever that Book is playing her most easily of all. She's had training, and he would know about that, given that he seems to know everything else; thus, she is the first person he must win over, since she's most likely to suspect him, based on that training. But I'm thinking they've had different kinds of training, and his is probably a lot more below-board, less obvious to her.

The thing that makes me suspect him more than anything else is River's perception of him thinking "I don't give half a hump if you're innocent or not!" which he absolutely snarls at Jayne in "Objects in Space"... But I have wondered if perhaps, since Jayne seems to address River in that scene, if the preacher too was addressing her, directly, rather than thinking about Jayne.

My husband thinks that whole sequence with River is an out-of-body experience, that she's not physically in the room with people, but rather is extending her consciousness throughout the ship, reading what people are thinking about. She does make interesting hand motions like somebody holding a weapon as she is traveling through the various scenes (later she suddenly "awakens" with a gun in hand). It makes sense that Jayne, who is portrayed as being very preoccupied and having a very guilty conscience after Ariel, along with being literal-minded enough to believe that River can deliver on her promise about her brain-- all of that means it makes sense that Jayne might be thinking about River. But Book?

Maybe Book is on the ship because of Simon and River. I've heard a theory that he's in some kind of underground resistance movement to keep River and others like her free. I'm not sure about that one... I think I still think Mal is his main purpose, but I'm mystified as to why.

There is no such thing as a weed.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, January 18, 2004 7:26 PM

ANKHAGOGO

Well, hello to yet another board! :)

I do agree with those who think that Early didn't actually know Book, but could simply tell that Book wasn't always a preacher. However, I don't know if I think he's any sort of (current) agent. I'm more in the "had a life-changing experience" camp. I like what someone said about Book having climbed out a moral sinkhole only to find himself being pulled back in again. I'm a bit of a "patterns of Westerns" freak, and Book seems to me to be a fairly traditional Western character -- a guy with a not-so-good past trying to redeem himself by becoming a good man. And redemption isn't at all a theme in Whedon shows, is it? Heh.

Actually -- and I'm about to go all seriously Western on you, so ya been warned --Book strikes me as a bit of a Shane character,if you know what I mean. Shane tried to fit in as a farmer, but it was obvious even to a little boy that no matter how hard he tried, he wasn't a farmer. He could walk the walk, and talk the talk, but in the end, Shane had to go back to being a gunman to help the people he cared about because he was the only one who could do it.
Book's doing a very good job trying to be a Shepherd (just got a Pulp Fiction flash), but I suspect that some day, he would have to choose between shooting more than kneecaps or letting everyone on the ship die. Shane rode off gutshot into the sunset, but I further suspect that Book would have to live with his decision.

Of course, it is the veriest folly to try and predict anything Sir Joss of Whedon might do,and it's even more ridiculous to expect the man to stick with anything "traditional". This is all just the impression I get of Shepherd Book, and I really, really want more pieces to the puzzle.

Ankhagogo

"She was naked---and all....articulate!"

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, January 19, 2004 12:23 PM

TALLGRRL

Quote:
Originally posted by paustark:
I just watched Objects in Space for the first time. When Simon criticized the Bounty Hunter for knocking out Book the Bounty Hunter looked at Book and Said "He's no Shepherd", what did he mean by that? Ok, before you answer, I have not seen the rest of the EPs so Book could be exactly who he is. Did anynone else pick up on that?

Listen to Joss's comment about Early and his mindset. When you think back on how he reacted when Simon asks if he's Alliance ("a lion"?)he may have been commenting on the literal meaning of the word "shepherd".
"That ain't no shepherd."
Could he have meant German Shepherd? Or Sheep herder?
And Book certainly wasn't dressed as a "shepherd", and there were no "sheep" about.
The tangled mind of Jubal Early.
("That's between me and my mind..." - J.Early)

By the way, I'm thinkin that Book was probably a mucky muck with the Alliance and just before the war ended left and joined a monestary. (Yes, he kept that IDent Card.)
Kaylee is the one who snagged him to come aboard Serenity. "You're coming with us!"
And he "paid" his way with a bit of money...and some foodstuffs. Especially a very valuable commodity: fresh fruit. Strawberries.
When he said he may have been on the wrong ship, I believe it. He seems to have found some sort of peace at the abbey, and then decided to do some wandering. Then he found himself pretty much on a pirate vessel and he was in situations he thought he'd left behind.
Yes, he does spring to action when called for. But that action is very likely 2nd nature.
Mal and Zoe were once soldiers, too.

And that's my take on some things.

"Take me, sir. Take me hard."

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, January 21, 2004 1:11 PM

MISGUIDED BY VOICES

Quote:
I agree with you, but not completely. I think Early could have seen something in Book that led him to believe Book was more than he appeared, but what did he see? I mean Early saw Book walk around with a cup for about 5 or 10 seconds. I didn't see anything in there that made Book seem more than a shepherd. Of course, I'm not Early either.

I think what Early saw wasn't about datafiles or outwarad appearance, but rather the presence of Book. Early's quotes about the purpose of things, and what River's room is when she isn't there suggests this.

If you asked Early to pick the Captain of Serenity out of the crew, not knowing who it was, he'd pick Mal every time - the two are obviously linked to each other (see Out of Gas) - Mal without Serenity has no purpose (thinking about it, this refers back to the battle as well), and Serenity without Mal is empty. Early could sense this.

As for Book, his presence is obvious - more and more in the episodes, he was edging into areas that shouldn't be his remit, and his suggestions were accepted. If the crew ever split into two groups, you can bet that one would centre around Book (Zoe, the other natural leader, would go with Mal). I guess to Early it was like observing a pride of lions, and he could tell by the way each carried themselves what their role was.

"I threw up on your bed"

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, January 22, 2004 12:17 PM

MISGUIDED BY VOICES

Whilst replying to your own post may be the first sign of madness, I took a fresh look at the kitchen scene in OiS last night (and much of the episode around it just because) -

In the scene, half the characters are sitting, half standing (excluding River). Mal stands, controlling the discussion. Kayley stands nervously as she hold the floor. Inara is standing, but obviously to stay away from the centre and distance herself. All the rest of the cast are sitting, except Book, who seems to deliberately have taken a standing position to command attention - he doesn't say much, while all the other characters are weighing in their own fashion. Apart from protecting River's corner, he affirms Mal's idea that River is a reader. We know he has Jayne onside, and if you buy the conspiracy theory (I'm not sure I do) you could say his actions are calculated to keep Simon and Kaylee apart.

That's what Early sees and hears, and that's what tells him Book is the second biggest threat to him.

"I threw up on your bed"

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

YOUR OPTIONS

SHARE THREAD

NEW POSTS TODAY

USER

POST DATE