Objects In Space (spoilers) by RonaldRaygun

FIREFLY EPISODE DISCUSSIONS

Objects In Space (spoilers)

POSTED BY: RONALDRAYGUN
UPDATED: Thursday, September 8, 2005 06:57
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Sunday, January 11, 2004 11:36 PM

I Finally watched the last two episodes. Since my Chiefs lost yesterday I figured I'd finish the series to cheer me up, but I think it has depressed me further as there are no more episodes to come.

Anyway, as I was watching OIS I noticed that as the doc finds Book knocked unconscious he asks Early how it felt beating up a shepherd and Early says in a matter of fact tone "Thats not a shepherd." Did anyone else get the feeling that Early knows who Book is or who he used to be?

I suppose I should listen to the commentary for clues but I thought it was a great moment in the episode. If Early and Book new each other perhaps he wasn't associated with the Alliance after all. Could Book have been a bounty Hunter at one time. We'll probably never know but speculation sure is fun. Ain't it.

Yep. That went well.

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Monday, January 12, 2004 2:35 AM

WERZBOWSKI

Funny thing.....I was watching OIS last night as well. I also noticed that little comment from Early and it made me rethink some of my theories about Book too.

Maybe he was some kind of bigwig bounty hunter....although I can't help but remember the Alliance's treatment of him in SAFE. I don't think that the Purple Bellies would have jumped through hoops for a current or former bounty hunter no matter how good he was.

"We will rise again!"

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Monday, January 12, 2004 9:35 AM

BROWNCOAT1

May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.

RonaldRayGun wrote:

Quote:
Anyway, as I was watching OIS I noticed that as the doc finds Book knocked unconscious he asks Early how it felt beating up a shepherd and Early says in a matter of fact tone "Thats not a shepherd." Did anyone else get the feeling that Early knows who Book is or who he used to be?

That is another clue that Book is more than he appears. How exactly Early came to the conclusion is a matter of debate.

I would have to say that it did not appear that Book recognized Early, and for his part, Early did not show any outward signs of recognizing Book. That is not to say he didn't, but if he had and wondered why he was on Serenity, he gave no indication.

I am wondering if Early may have noticed something about Book, the way he moved or spoke that told him he was more than he appears. I have taken martial arts for years, and am former special forces, so I can generally size up someone by the way they hold themselves and react to certain things. I am wondering if it could have been something along those lines that tipped Early off.

"May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one."

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Monday, January 12, 2004 12:16 PM

WERESPAZ

Quote:

I am wondering if Early may have noticed something about Book, the way he moved or spoke that told him he was more than he appears. I have taken martial arts for years, and am former special forces, so I can generally size up someone by the way they hold themselves and react to certain things. I am wondering if it could have been something along those lines that tipped Early off.

I'm thinking that Early had dossiers on everybody on the ship, and probably had access to the same information that's on Book's Ident Card. If the Alliance knew who he was, there's no reason that Early didn't know he was on that ship and have access to his records.

-The SpAz

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Monday, January 12, 2004 4:36 PM

LADYJAYNE

Quote:
I am wondering if Early may have noticed something about Book, the way he moved or spoke that told him he was more than he appears. I have taken martial arts for years, and am former special forces, so I can generally size up someone by the way they hold themselves and react to certain things. I am wondering if it could have been something along those lines that tipped Early off.

That argument would work if Early wasn't a classic textbook sociopath. There is no way someone that anti-social would have any skill in recognizing body language.

In my own theory, someone of the high social class and wealth that Book probably belonged to, could very likely have had dealings with a bounty hunter.

It's another piece of the puzzle that will only be solved if we get a MOVIE!! sigh.

--Kala

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Monday, January 12, 2004 6:30 PM

GMAN777

Quote:
Originally posted by ladyjayne:

That argument would work if Early wasn't a classic textbook sociopath. There is no way someone that anti-social would have any skill in recognizing body language.

--Kala

sociopaths make some of the best con men and salesmen out there. This doesn't mean I think your theory is wrong, but I wouldn't hang my hat on this argument.

Gman

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Tuesday, January 13, 2004 4:08 AM

STALBANS

It must have been somewhere on here I read a transcript of a commentary by Joss about this episode in which he says Early is a foil for River, a kind of the same but opposite thing, and he possesses something like her unnatural intuition. This suggests to me that Early was able to tell, by watching and listening to the crew when hanging outside, that Book was a threat and more than just a shepherd.

I'm inclinded to believe this as this is the way I saw the situation when I first watched the episode.

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Tuesday, January 13, 2004 7:20 AM

WYDRAZ

I think Stalbans has it. If you listen to the commentary, Joss says Early just recognizes Book as more of a threat than many others of the crew, not because he knows him, but because he can judge such things by appearances.

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Tuesday, January 13, 2004 10:01 AM

IANING

Time to stop lurking. :) Hi first time posting but I have been reading this page since about have way through the show airing on fox. I just finshed up watching the DVD's (Cry).

At the begining of the episode as river walks around is she seeing what she thinks people are thinking, Or what they really are thinking?

Everyone I have talked to says she is seeing what she thinks the other person is thinking.
But I think it is she is seeing what they really are thinking, or will be thinking. Here is why.

Mal and Inara were talking about Inara leaving, something River or the rest of the crew did not know about.

Simon said "I could be there right now". Now River does think she ruined her brothers career and that would fit with the "Shat she thinks" idea. But later on in the episode Simon says something almost the exact same thing as river heared (Though only because Simon's brain starts to juggle geese when talking to Kaylee"

Jayne sounded afraid and upset when he said the money was to good or whatever back on Ariel. I would think River would see him as a stupid strong guy or something. But Jayne seems to be a little afraid of River ever since she sliced him (The whole "kill you with my brain" did not help)

Now for the point of this post Book.

When she looks at Book we hear "I dont give a flying hump if you burn in hell! Your all sinners in my eyes" Or something like that. Now that sounds nothing like book at all. And there is no reason for River to beleive that was what he was thinking.

So we know Book is not who he wants us to think he is, but I think he is much worse then he seems. What he said and the way he said it was worse then anything Jubal said (Poor Kaylee). But this goes against Book being taken in by the Feds.

Anybody have any ideas on all this?

Slow day at work gives me a lot of time to think about this stuff.

I was thinking someone rich like Bill Gates has to be a fan of the show. Why dont they just give Joss Whedon 15 million dollars and say "MAKE SIMON KISS KAYLEE! Oh and uh all that other important stuff."

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Monday, January 19, 2004 1:32 PM

MISGUIDED BY VOICES

Quote:
Originally posted by Ianing:

When she looks at Book we hear "I dont give a flying hump if you burn in hell! Your all sinners in my eyes" Or something like that. Now that sounds nothing like book at all. And there is no reason for River to beleive that was what he was thinking. B]

I think its something on the lines of - I don't give a flying hump if you're innocent or not, so what does that make you? - whereas with many of the characters, the line is directed at River, in this case (and it Inara's from memory) it isn't - suggesting that it wasn't directed at her, but an event from Book's past.

(I would check on the subtitles, but since they are hilariously bad, there is little point - witness in The Message where "Gorram it, Mal" becomes something like "got a rabbit, Mal" - now I'm thinking about Kaylee as a bunny girl, which undermines the serious nature of my response!)

Clearly something Book did in the past is what he is running from, and I'm guessing something for the Alliance - perhaps he performed an Inquisitor type role?

"I threw up on your bed"

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Monday, January 19, 2004 5:03 PM

VETERAN

Don't squat with your spurs on.

Quote:
something Book did in the past is what he is running from, and I'm guessing something for the Alliance - perhaps he performed an Inquisitor type role?

I'd say you're on target.

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Monday, January 19, 2004 5:32 PM

SAINT JAYNE

Listening to the voices in River's head is one of the best parts in Objects in Space! So much hidden meaning - it would be a gold mine if we could figure it out.

Simon - "I would be there right now", while looking at his sister, and Kaylee is just staring at her coldly. He does say this exact phrase later on in the show.

Jayne - "I got stupid. The money was too good", looking remorseful at River. This is a paraphrase from Ariel.

Book - "I don't give half a hump if you're innocent or not. So where does that put you?" condescendingly, but not looking at River.

Wash and Zoe - no words, just touching. River seems very empathetic here.

Inara - "I'm a big girl. Just tell me", looking at River. We would understand the 'Verse a lot better if we knew what this meant.

Mal - "None of it means a damn thing", in a choked-up voice, not looking anywhere in particular. This of course captures his hopelessness at the Battle of Serenity.

Hmm. It looks like these are memories. Simon's might have been foresight, but he also might have spoken these words before. The facing is not important, but the emotion in the voice is (comparing Simon and Jayne's twin comments). Book freaks me out.

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Monday, January 19, 2004 6:49 PM

OKKAY

Hmm, it's kind of interesting that all of River's "readings" seem to be past memories, because in general, what we see from River are things happening in the future. The only instance I can think of right now of River looking into someone's past is with Badger.

Hopefully the movie will shed some light on the Book and Inara mysteries.

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Monday, January 19, 2004 7:09 PM

SAINT JAYNE

Quote:
Originally posted by Okkay:
Hmm, it's kind of interesting that all of River's "readings" seem to be past memories, because in general, what we see from River are things happening in the future.

I'm not thinking of any good examples of her seeing the future. There are tonnes of events where she sees the present ("hands of blue" - Serenity, "ghosts" - Bushwhacked, "fire" - Out of Gas, etc).

Ariel gives the greatest impression of foresight, but if she's just reading Jayne's mind (amongst other things) she knows what's about to happen. Safe is another good example of her knowing the past.

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Monday, January 19, 2004 7:13 PM

IANING

Hopefully it is 999,999 hours long and devided into hour long shots shown on a major tv network... Cry.

Anyone know where Joss lives? Got to go get the answers out of him.

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Wednesday, September 7, 2005 12:07 PM

ENGINEANGEL

Quote:

written by Okkay
Hmm, it's kind of interesting that all of River's "readings" seem to be past memories,

why do sooo many people think that these are past memories?

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Thursday, September 8, 2005 6:57 AM

ODDNESS2HER

I wonder what Early would have replied if Simon had asked "What is he then?" I like to think he would have said "A Shepherd." Like in the "I'm not a bounty hunter." "What are you?" "I'm a bounty hunter." exchange.

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