What became of what was left of Earth-that-was? by Caitlyn

FIREFLY EPISODE DISCUSSIONS

What became of what was left of Earth-that-was?

POSTED BY: CAITLYN
UPDATED: Wednesday, May 19, 2004 18:13
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 11827
PAGE 1 of 1

Monday, January 19, 2004 11:25 AM

What became of Earth-that-was? Humanity used it up. That much we're told. OK, what happens to a used up planet? Is it an abandoned rock in space? Is it still there? Might at least a few people still live on it?

Seems to me like this is a thing Jos could have explored. Does Mal or anyone in the crew even know where Earth-that-was is or was? What's there in the present time in the 'verse? Could something sinister be there, like whoever is really behind Blue Sun?

Just thinking... which could be dangerous.

"Oh. Yeah. Just step around it. I think something
must've been living in here. "

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, January 20, 2004 5:44 AM

CAITLYN

C'mon! Some of you must have done more than take "Earth-that-was" at face value. A creative lot like you must surely have all sorts of ideas.

"So, are you enjoying your own nubile little
slave girl? "

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, January 20, 2004 5:58 AM

SHADOWKATE

Its a cliche (and we all know what Joss thinks about those) but I think something would have happend that would have required them to head that way.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, January 20, 2004 6:02 AM

CAITLYN

Perhaps, but would it force the whole population to leave or die? Let's say it did. OK, would it still be that way today? Could something be at the dead Earth-that-was now? See what I mean about possibilities?

"Yeah, we're pretty much just giving each other
significant glances and laughing incessantly.
Is that cider? "

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, January 20, 2004 6:12 AM

BARNEYT

I could believe that there are still people living on 'Earth-that-was' - there are different levels of Earth being used up, and even if the governments of the day decided that there had to be an exodus for the survival of mankind, I figure there's bound to be a few who insisted on staying behind, and it's possible that they've been able to replenish the world.

Of course, the whole planet could have blown to smithereens in an asteroid crash...

---
"I think the right place to start is to say, fair is fair. This is who we are. These are our numbers." Mr Willis of Ohio - The West Wing

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, January 20, 2004 6:13 AM

STEVE580

Quote:
Originally posted by Shadowkate:
Its a cliche (and we all know what Joss thinks about those) but I think something would have happend that would have required them to head that way.

Something *will* happen you mean. Don't lose faith in the show...

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, January 20, 2004 6:40 AM

SHINY

It's a Blue Sun amusement park.

RIVER
Purple elephants are flying.
MAL
Good. Thanks for the update.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, January 20, 2004 7:00 AM

MANIACNUMBERONE

If using up the earth means the same thing in the future as it does now, then 500 years from now, in Joss' 'verse, earth-that-was (etw) most prolly ran out of natural resources.
Like fossil fuels that can't be easily renewed in a quick time period, air (possibly due to deforestation) and viable soil due to overuse. We could easily have turned etw into a barren semi-lifeless rock, and we still could.

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, January 20, 2004 7:47 AM

BARNEYT

Quote:
Originally posted by ManiacNumberOne:
If using up the earth means the same thing in the future as it does now, then 500 years from now, in Joss' 'verse, earth-that-was (etw) most prolly ran out of natural resources.
Like fossil fuels that can't be easily renewed in a quick time period, air (possibly due to deforestation) and viable soil due to overuse. We could easily have turned etw into a barren semi-lifeless rock, and we still could.

This is what I was thinking of, and I reckon that in this situation you'd probably get a few die-hard 'Save Earth' folks who'd want to stay behind, in bio-domes maybe...

---
"I think the right place to start is to say, fair is fair. This is who we are. These are our numbers." Mr Willis of Ohio - The West Wing

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, January 20, 2004 8:05 AM

CAITLYN

No matter how bad off Earth was when most of humanity left (will leave?) there would be something left behind and that something could still have folk on it one way or another. I like the idea of something sinister being on Earth-that-remains and Blue Sun being behind it or an extension of it. Lots of plot ideas there...

FWIW, I think if we have another generation or two of goverments with as much concern for the environment as the current ones in the U.S. and China (the roots of the Alliance) the dead rock theory could well become the living (or dead) truth.

Don't want to turn this into politicin'. I surely don't.

"Okay, we're not killing folk today,
on account of our very tight
schedule."

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, January 20, 2004 8:11 AM

VERITAS

I don't know about people still living on Earth-that-was, but I think everyone did have to leave or die. In Heart of Gold, the shadow puppets in the background when Mal meets Rance tells the story of what happened to Earth-that-was. At one point, it looks like the planet was on fire, so I'm taking that as a bad sign.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, January 20, 2004 8:41 AM

HERO

Quote:
Originally posted by Veritas:
I don't know about people still living on Earth-that-was, but I think everyone did have to leave or die. In Heart of Gold, the shadow puppets in the background when Mal meets Rance tells the story of what happened to Earth-that-was. At one point, it looks like the planet was on fire, so I'm taking that as a bad sign.

Maybe it was a metaphor for people's burning desire to colonize the galaxy.

H

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, January 20, 2004 8:49 AM

MANIACNUMBERONE

More likely it was the fallout of nuclear destruction combined with the effects of solar radiation. delightful

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, January 20, 2004 9:06 AM

ZAPHODB

Maybe the Reavers have reclaimed part or all of it as their own.

Industrial Looniee & Madness - http://www3.telus.net/vchrusch

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, January 20, 2004 9:57 AM

AMNON

Quote:
Originally posted by Veritas:
In Heart of Gold, the shadow puppets in the background when Mal meets Rance tells the story of what happened to Earth-that-was.

I saw a site somewhere claimed to have the text and translation. Oh, found it here: http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=14&t=2732 . Don't know where the script this references can be found, or whether the aired show accurately reflects this, but...

--
Too much of you is less of a balm.

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, January 20, 2004 10:28 AM

HUMBLE

A natural catastrophe occured. Probably due to man's intervention in the natural order of things. Mass extinctions disrupting the food chain. Pollution of environment. War that devestated the planet. Could also be caused by an ELE. But my money is on mankind destroying man. That's what we're proficient at.(War.)

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, January 20, 2004 10:52 AM

INVISIBLEGREEN

Book: "After Earth was used up, new planets were terraformed and settlers spread out across the galaxy...."

/ \
|
Approximate quote from Book's Prologue ("The Train Job," "Bushwahcked," "Our Mrs. Reynolds," "Jaynestown").

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, January 20, 2004 8:04 PM

NOOCYTE

Couple of thoughts (twice as dangerous):

I wonder if the problem with ETW might have been a catastrophic destabilization of the biosphere's ability to regulate its own temperature, due to widespread pollution. Muck with Gaia enough, and the global homeostatic balance could reach a 'tipping point' (or bifurcation point, if you're more into Prigogine). The result could be catastrophic fluctuations in temeperature.

A highly simplified scenario: Imagine greenhouse heating from CO2 emissions (sorry, Adam...), bringing about tremendous algea blooms in the swollen seas, their unchecked photosynthetic activity raising the partial pressure of oxygen on a global scale. This, in turn, facilitates massive wildfires, releasing huge quantities of smoke and ash into the air (this would jibe with the puppet show, BTW). This smoke blocks out solar radiation, raises albedo (reflectivity), and ultimately leads to catastrophic cooling and a fatally stable 'white earth.'

And now, for a fun little conspiracy sub-plot: Blue Sun Corp., flush from its extensive experience in terraforming the systems of our 'verse (note, I said systemS...I'm in that camp. Another thread...) sends a planetary engineering expedition back to ETW, to terraform Terra, and there engage in all manner of unsupervised shenanigans... (shades of Magrathea or Za H'Dum [sp?])!

Intriguing, eh?

Hmmm?

Department of Redundancy Department

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, January 21, 2004 1:18 AM

BARNEYT

Quote:
Originally posted by ZaphodB:
Maybe the Reavers have reclaimed part or all of it as their own.

Very interesting thought... 'specially if Earth's been left as a wasteland from nuclear fallout - the Reavers run without core containment remember...

Maybe this is where the Reavers came from?

---
"I think the right place to start is to say, fair is fair. This is who we are. These are our numbers." Mr Willis of Ohio - The West Wing

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, January 21, 2004 1:32 AM

DRAKON

Quote:
Originally posted by Caitlyn:
C'mon! Some of you must have done more than take "Earth-that-was" at face value. A creative lot like you must surely have all sorts of ideas.

In the script for Heart of Gold, at the end, there is the script for the shadow play going on when Mal meets Burgess. Not a lot to go on, the Earth got used up or something. So everyone left. That is really all we got to go on.

"Wash, where is my damn spaceship?"

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, January 21, 2004 1:43 AM

DRAKON

Quote:
Originally posted by BarneyT:

I could believe that there are still people living on 'Earth-that-was' - there are different levels of Earth being used up, and even if the governments of the day decided that there had to be an exodus for the survival of mankind, I figure there's bound to be a few who insisted on staying behind, and it's possible that they've been able to replenish the world.

This has bugged me every since I have heard it. How do you "use up" a PLANET??? Planets are huge, very big things. And besides a few hundred tons of space vehicles, everything this planet started with is still here. Changed around, in form, mixed with different stuff and all. But the same stuff that was here when humanity started is still here now.

As a matter of fact, every year a few tons of space debris enters the Earth's atmosphere and becomes part of this planet. We actually have been gaining material, not losing it.

Now, pollution can be a problem. But what pollution really is, is stuff we just don't know what to make out of. The stuff is not the problem in and of itself, its the way that particular stuff is arraigned and organized.

Quote:

Of course, the whole planet could have blown to smithereens in an asteroid crash...

The puppet show in "Heart of Gold" indicates that the exodus took place over the period of a century.

"Wash, where is my damn spaceship?"

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, January 21, 2004 1:59 AM

DRAKON

Quote:
Originally posted by ManiacNumberOne:
If using up the earth means the same thing in the future as it does now, then 500 years from now, in Joss' 'verse, earth-that-was (etw) most prolly ran out of natural resources.
Like fossil fuels that can't be easily renewed in a quick time period, air (possibly due to deforestation) and viable soil due to overuse. We could easily have turned etw into a barren semi-lifeless rock, and we still could.

I don't buy it. Unless you export that stuff offworld, its still here, just changed in form. You got Diesel exhaust instead of crude oil. But a major component of fossil fuel combustion is CO2. Which plants need to breath.

Except for people that never take a dump, things pass through the body, rather than stop there. Excrement is fertilizer. (Yes, it needs to be sterilized before use, but that is a trivial technical problem.)

What I am trying to say is that all these technical processes don't really use the stuff. Energy is extracted, but even that goes nowhere for the most part. And as long as the sun shines, you still got more energy coming into the planet all the time.

Another hypothesis is that it was all a marketing ploy. "Quick, the Earth is gonna die on us, everyone abandon planet. And come to beautiful Ariel/Shinon/etc. for a new life. Either that or stay here and die!"

"Wash, where is my damn spaceship?"

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, January 21, 2004 2:20 AM

BADGERSGIRL

Quote:
Originally posted by Drakon:

This has bugged me every since I have heard it. How do you "use up" a PLANET??? Planets are huge, very big things. And besides a few hundred tons of space vehicles, everything this planet started with is still here. Changed around, in form, mixed with different stuff and all. But the same stuff that was here when humanity started is still here now.

I disagree, I think you can use up a natural resource. I know in farming, you can use land until it has no usefulness anymore. That's why they rotate crops - to keep the land viable longer.

Quote:
As a matter of fact, every year a few tons of space debris enters the Earth's atmosphere and becomes part of this planet. We actually have been gaining material, not losing it.

What does that matter, if the material isn't usable?

Quote:
Now, pollution can be a problem. But what pollution really is, is stuff we just don't know what to make out of. The stuff is not the problem in and of itself, its the way that particular stuff is arraigned and organized.

I'm sorry if I sound like an idiot, but isn't that a little like saying, "Cancer isn't incurable, we just haven't found a cure."? Fine, but that doesn't help the people who are dying. It may be possible to find new ways to access these "used up" resources, but if no one has figured out how, then what's the point? It could be a thousand times easier to find ways to access untouched resources on other planets than to bring back what we've used up.

JMO!

And, of course, there's the problem of population, which is the genesis of the resource problem. Even if you could find a way to re-use everything, it doesn't help if there just plain old isn't enough to go around.

"I like her" - Badger

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, January 21, 2004 3:49 AM

DRAKON

Quote:
Originally posted by BadgersGirl:

I disagree, I think you can use up a natural resource. I know in farming, you can use land until it has no usefulness anymore. That's why they rotate crops - to keep the land viable longer.

Umm.. think about this a second. Yes rotating crops return nutrients back to the land. Which means you can't "use up" the land, unless you don't rotate crops.

And even then, fertilizer goes a long way.

Quote:

I'm sorry if I sound like an idiot, but isn't that a little like saying, "Cancer isn't incurable, we just haven't found a cure."? Fine, but that doesn't help the people who are dying. It may be possible to find new ways to access these "used up" resources, but if no one has figured out how, then what's the point? It could be a thousand times easier to find ways to access untouched resources on other planets than to bring back what we've used up.

Good point. What I was trying to explain is that the stuff we "use up" ain't going anywhere. So we can do things like mine raw minerals, or dig through our own trash. And in a lot of cases, it may very well be easier, and cheaper to recycle, rather than mine new stuff, or go to another planet to get it.

The key word missing is "Yet" We may not know how to utilize a lot of this stuff yet, but that does not mean we never will. In fact there are plenty of research projects working on this very subject, some of which has been very effective at reducing pollution in many forms and recovering the material.

JMO!

Quote:

And, of course, there's the problem of population, which is the genesis of the resource problem. Even if you could find a way to re-use everything, it doesn't help if there just plain old isn't enough to go around.

Another good point, but I don't think it is realistic. It appears that the more advanced technically a culture becomes, the less population it creates. More people find other things to do with their spare time, and can do them, rather than stay home and make babies.

Europeans are already reproducing at below replacement rates, and if it were not for immigration, would be showing a decline in population overall. A lot of the third world countries still have yet to adjust to advances in medical technology, with its accompanying decrease in infant mortality rates. Which is why you see exploding populations in the third world.

Besides which, have you ever been to Fremont? Not long ago, someone figured out that if you took the entire 6 billion plus population of this here planet, and packed them in at the same density as Fremont California, you could fill all of Europe, leave most of what is now Russia west of the Urals, along with Africa, Asia, and the Americas completely uninhabited.

Fremont is a bedroom community in the southern end of the San Fransisco bay area. We are talking single family, suburbia style living, with a few light industries. There is a automotive plant and some of the Silicon Valley tech industry headquarters there as well.

So we got a LOOOONNNNGGG way to go before overpopulation becomes a problem. And if we can elevate the technology level for everyone, we might even have that problem.

"Wash, where is my damn spaceship?"

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, January 21, 2004 6:11 PM

CAITLYN

Lots of theories, but none unconvince me that something's still in orbit of Sol where the third planet should be. Earth-that-was still is in some way or another.

Bet we'd have found out what if the show would have gone on a bit longer.

"Hamsters is nice"

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, January 21, 2004 8:50 PM

NOOCYTE

Quote:

Lots of theories, but none unconvince me that something's still in orbit of Sol where the third planet should be. Earth-that-was still is in some way or another.

Bet we'd have found out what if the show would have gone on a bit longer.

Not so sure this is the case. I could see Joss keeping the "we are all equally rootless, cut off from our point of origin, and making meaning on the fly as best we can" motiff going on for good (rather like Frank Herbert did in the Dune series), to good effect.

Much as I'm a sucker for the "adoptive kids quest for biological parents and find something they didn't expect" theme, there's something eerily, existentially resonant about ETW being lost forever (in the sense of "can't go home;" of course they know where it is).

Slight thread hijack, via Dune : Did anyone notice in "The Mesage" that the Buddha during the battle flashback was pointing his hand upward? The Buddha is traditionally depicted with his hand touching the earth, whose spirit he invoked to ward off the distracting demons, prior to Enlightenment. Could this be an extraordinarily subtle reference to the mythological dimensions of SPACE TRAVEL to a culture of planetary emigration? Am I thinking too much?

[/thread hijack]

Keep (mindfully) flyin'!

Department of Redundancy Department

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, January 21, 2004 9:06 PM

RONALDRAYGUN

If they use another old, lame, overused cliche like "We polluted the earth and ruined the Ozone layer", or "We cut down all the trees and the ice caps melted and the seas rose". I swear I will burn my box set and never utter the word Firefly again. I never watched Highlander again after they used that idiotic plot device.

Whew! I feel better now!

Yep. That went well.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, January 21, 2004 9:09 PM

HAPLO721

Quote:
Originally posted by Noocyte:
(shades of Magrathea or Za H'Dum [sp?])!

Z'ha'dum. A friend got me hooked on B5 recently. Great show, but no substitute for my gorram Firefly!

Early: You ever been raped, Kaylee?
Kaylee: You know, it's funny you should mention that... ever heard of the Fox network?

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, January 21, 2004 10:02 PM

GUNRUNNER

I saw a show on PBS about how the Earth's magnetic field is slowly deterating due to the changes of polarity in the core. When in a few hundered (thousand?) years Earth will have less protection from radation from the Sun.

One thing that I found partculy intresting is that there is evdince of the Earth's polls reversing so quickly that some lava flows wernt even hard when the polls reversed several times.

I can see the many factions of Earth fighting over the smaller zones of habaitly that would come with a magnetic field that is in flux. Just imagian that one half to three quarters of the world was exposed to higher levels of radation, and that save zones constantly moved.

Oh well just and idea I thoght I'd float.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Saturday, January 24, 2004 9:11 AM

BADGERSGIRL

Quote:
Originally posted by Drakon:

Umm.. think about this a second.

Ooowww, don't ask me to do that.

I'm going to have to bow to your superior knowledge here. I'm not saying I agree with you, mind you, only that I lack the mental resources to effectively argue the point.

"I like her" - Badger

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Saturday, January 24, 2004 11:30 AM

EBONEZER

here's a thought. Time Frame. Is it possible that in the relitivly short time of 500 years people pollouted and over populated the earth to the point that it was unlivable, then moved away from earth and had the time to imagrate too I'm going to say at least a hundred planets, plus set up a large system of government, AND have a major war?

Im no expert and I'm not even going to pretend to be one, but, it seems to me like it would take at least a couple of hundred years to make the earth unlivable, and that leaves virtually no time for all this other stuff (set up of the allainace, etc) to happen and develop to the point that it had developed at the time of the show.

So, what i am ever so gradually getting around to saying is that it almost had to be a nuclear war or somehing that screwed up the earth, and screwed it up fast. From what little i know about nuclear bombs, I know that the dropout (ie, the dangerous radiation) can get into the jet streams and travel around the world a couple times, causing radioactive poisoning to those far, far away from where the bomb was dropped. So, lets say some terrorist groups get a hold of some of these bombs and go about blowing each other (or a governmet or someting, take you pick) up. The drop out from it kills people and animals (a potential food sorce for all the living people) and messes up crops. Not to mention destroyed cities from the bombs themselves

The earth get's messed up and virtually unliveable, somebody gets the bright idea to leave and away they go.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, February 1, 2004 10:11 AM

ANKHAGOGO

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, February 1, 2004 2:28 PM

STATIC

Hey guys. . .

I REALLY think we MIGHT be over-thinking all of this stuff.

To paraphrase "Austin Powers: The Spy Who Shagged Me". . .'I suggest you not worry so much about all of that and just enjoy yourself!'

I mean. . .come on. We're dangerously close to dissecting the possibilities beyond our ability to truly enjoy it.

==================================================
"Wash. . .we got some local color happening. A grand entrance would not go amiss."

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, February 1, 2004 6:18 PM

STARHAND

Static, I'm in complete agreement with you. When enjoying my favorite books, media or tv I'm always mindful of the saying, "There are those who would gut the cat to see what makes it purr.".

Starhand

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, February 1, 2004 6:33 PM

LINDLEY

I'll combine several of the above theories.

A proto-Blue Sun group accidentally unleashed a Resident Evil-like virus on Earth. However, rather than admit to that, they called it a natural disaster or something else that would render Earth unlivable.

As a result, the slow process of colonization abruptly sped up, as everyone left as fast as they could and headed to the stars.

A few stayed behind, unwilling to abandon Earth. The virus infected them, and they mutated to become the origin of the Reavers.

No one knows where Earth is anymore, because its in the center of Reaver territory.....it could also explain why anyone who comes into contact with the Reavers becomes like them, if there's a biological agent at work. It'd have an incubation period, so that those around them are safe if the infected person dies within a certain timeframe.

You know, I really like my theory. I just might use it in my Firefly total-conversion plug for EVN.....

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, February 1, 2004 6:41 PM

NOOCYTE

Oh, I don't know, guy. Actually, I find this kind of speculation a fun way to keep the old brain wheels nice and lubed while we wait for word from On High.

Where these kinds of conversations become really tiresome is when people start to get heated (you know what I'm talking about: the "No you idiot it's OBVIOUS that it was a nuclear war because in epsiode number 9....!!" go-se that gives fannish types such a bad name). Proud to note that us Browncoats show virtually none of that kind of foolishness.

So far, this seems a nice sort of rocking on the porch shooting the breeze kind of recreational rumination. Thinking from inside the 'verse is a poor substitute for New Stuff...but I think it's shiny...for now...

[edited for typing impairment]

Department of Redundancy Department

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, February 2, 2004 6:55 AM

STATIC

You know. . .I've written several posts that I re-read and deleted because I wasn't sure how to approach this. . .

But I guess I'll come out and say it. . .

I've noticed that as ENTHUSIASTIC and DEDICATED as we "Browncoats" are. . .we manage to artfully avoid falling into the stereotype of scifi fans that end up wearing prosthetic foreheads, spouting klingon and elvish and just generally creeping the regular public out.

"RAY. . .you're scaring the straights!"

Why is that. . .do you suppose? My theory is. . .

Firefly. . .compared to Star Wars, Trek and everything else. . .is actually FAIRLY EASY for someone to 'wrap their head around' . . .no uber-technology. . .no stupid holodecks, transporter beams, no friggin' 'aft thermocouple' that ALWAYS seemed to screw up, but Geordi never had the sense to have an EXTRA one. . .No alien races and wierd cultures where chewing with your mouth open might woefully offend them into war. . .

It's US. . .our SAME stuggles. . .our SAME conflicts. . .just spread out a bit more. Ya know? It's too close to reality for even the MOST die-hard fans to get unrealistic.

Am I making sense? I think I'll post this into a separate thread and throw it out there for everyone to chew on.

==================================================
"Wash. . .we got some local color happening. A grand entrance would not go amiss."

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, February 2, 2004 9:02 AM

ARAWAEN

Some people have wisely remembered the conversation of matter and energy principle in the environmental discussions here. But we must also remember that 'the waste' products have lower usefulness to us and that given the inefficiency in returning them to a useful state it is not practical (or going to happen).

Take the simple fuel cell, you combine water and hydrogen to get water and energy. You could add energy to the water to turn it back into hydrogren and oxygen but the overall process would leave you with negative energy due to inefficiency. For a fuel cell to be viable you must get your hydrogen and oxygen elsewhere, by means that requires less energy to get than results from the fuel cell.

Fossil fuels are very convenient because we didn't have to make it (give it energy), oil starts with lots of potential energy to extract.
Even the sun, source of solar energy will eventually be extinguished having burnt up all its hydrogen. While it is quite possible to create hydrogen with enough energy, it will never be technologically feasible to do so. If 100% efficiency was achieved then the whole point is moot, but doesn't seem likely.

What I am getting at is that you always lose some energy to entropy (it still exists but is no longer accessible to us). We do have a lot longer than 500 years, but resources do have limits.

Arawaen

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, February 3, 2004 4:52 PM

LTNOWIS

Quote:
I just might use it in my Firefly total-conversion plug for EVN.....

You're making a Firefly plugin for Escape Velocity Nova? Why was I not informed? Unless you posted about it and I just missed it. When you finish, please tell us. I visit this site a lot more than the EV Nova plugin site. Though I gotta say that sound in space is one of the hallmarks of that game.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, February 3, 2004 5:42 PM

LINDLEY

[qupte]You're making a Firefly plugin for Escape Velocity Nova? Why was I not informed? Unless you posted about it and I just missed it. When you finish, please tell us. I visit this site a lot more than the EV Nova plugin site. Though I gotta say that sound in space is one of the hallmarks of that game.

I posted about it several months ago, back when I was first starting.

It won't be done any time soon; I've very nearly got the galaxy ready (75+ stellar objects, so far), but I still have to do outfits, weapons, dudes, persons, ships, other graphicy-type-stuff, junks......not to mention missions.

This is the third major plugin I've started, and I've gotten farther on this than either of the other two, so I feel there's a good chance it will eventually see some kind of completion.

And yes, the sound in space will be a bit of a complication. I haven't decided how I'm going to handle that yet.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, February 4, 2004 5:18 AM

ROCKETJOCK

Quote:
Originally posted by Caitlyn:

FWIW, I think if we have another generation or two of goverments with as much concern for the environment as the current ones in the U.S. and China (the roots of the Alliance) the dead rock theory could well become the living (or dead) truth.

Don't want to turn this into politicin'. I surely don't.

"Okay, we're not killing folk today,
on account of our very tight
schedule."

RE: The Dead Rock theory.* If Alliance technology is capable of terraforming 70 - 100 worlds into approximate earthlike environments in less than 500 years, then why can't they terraform terra? Surely the same technology could be used to repair whatever damage H. Sapiens has done to Old Home Earth.

Unless the problem is something that can't be cleaned up, like the fallout from a major thermonuclear exchange. Terraformation Tech might not be useful for reducing ambient strontium-90 levels.

*Footquote: "Rock is dead. Long live paper and scissors!" -- Homer J. Simpson

RocketJock

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, February 4, 2004 7:03 AM

MILORADELL

Well, I recently read an article about how long it takes for an Ice Age to happen, and it's 1-3 years.
http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=17711
And when the North goes into an Ice Age, the South goes into a dust bowl. So there's that for how long it could take.

I saw the same PBS show about the magnetic poles swapping - isn't it interesting that we're learning just how fragile this rock is? Processes that have always been considered to take forever, are now proving to be more-or-less instant. Go science!

Here's my question - who paid for everyone to leave etw? I know we've seen indentured servitude shown - Jaynestown for instance - but 500 years later? If it took that long to pay back the trip, wouldn't most everyone still be paying? And yet there was no evidence of widespread indenturement in any of the shows.

And maybe I'm just a sceptic, but I don't see our current govm'ts being able to get together and save the human race.

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, February 4, 2004 10:19 AM

LINDLEY

^Not all of them would need to. Only the Americans and Chinese......

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, May 19, 2004 1:28 AM

MANTICHORUS

Well, the Cockneys got in to the Black, it's safe to say.
I've gotta say, the idea that the Reavers control ETW sounds gorram good to me!
But the Blue Sun theory sounds good too...
Mebbe the Blue Sun created and control the Reavers...

"BADGER: You think you're better than other people.
MAL: Just the ones I'm better than."

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, May 19, 2004 5:07 PM

ANNIK

My theory, completely unsubstantiated, of course, is that the ETW was somehow destroyed/ rendered inert/ etc. and everyone left ... THEN a bunch of folks came in, broke it all up into little bits, and sold them as souveniers.

(Just like they did when the Berlin Wall came down).

Cheers,
Annik
... my sister's a ship. We had a complicated childhood.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, May 19, 2004 6:13 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Personally, I think that the ETW got TORN APART from monkeying around with artificial gravity, which is why there are so many planetoids and asteroids at earth-distance from the sun.

Or, maybe not!

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

YOUR OPTIONS

SHARE THREAD

NEW POSTS TODAY

USER

POST DATE