Relationship development we would like to see by usagivindaloo

FIREFLY EPISODE DISCUSSIONS

Relationship development we would like to see

POSTED BY: USAGIVINDALOO
UPDATED: Saturday, October 21, 2006 05:15
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Friday, April 7, 2006 3:18 PM

Part of what I love about Firefly is the interactions between the characters. I love the silent subtext of Mal/Inara, want to slap Jayne as he pesters Simon, and love the deep affection of Wash/Zoe. I even like a lot of the "minor" interactions... like Simon's discussions with Inara, or Wash and Kaylee chatting cheerfully about what Saffron did to their console, or the River and Book conversations.

Unfortunately, due to the criminally short run that our beloved show had, there were a lot of interactions and relationships that we never really got to see. Some characters had very little in the way of conversations, something I hope would have been addressed later in the series. As a result, in some cases we really don't know what Person A felt about Person B.

Which characters did you want to see interact more? What relationships, friendly or non, would you have enjoyed seeing develop over the course of the series?

Me, I really REALLY wanted to see more interaction between Wash and Simon, or just Wash and the Tams in general. We never REALLY get a sense of what they think of each other, though we do see that Wash continually defends Simon and River when the big discussions come up. Would his good nature have led to him actually forging a bond with them, or not? I personally would have LOVED to see some of the conversations Simon and Wash could have had; Simon probably wouldn't know what to make of Wash's bizarre humor, but I can see him being less upset by it than by Mal or Jayne's rather sadistic streak.

On a similar note, I would have liked more Zoe/Tam interaction. I STILL don't know what she thought of them (and after the movie, I can only imagine another layer being added). More conversations with her and Simon would have been awesome (River too, but she's a bit whimsical in the brainpan and as such a conversation might not get anyone anywhere

)

How about you guys? Anyone on the Simon/Wash Friendship bandwagon? Or are there any other relationships you would like to see more of?

"This must be what going mad feels like."

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Sunday, April 9, 2006 3:36 PM

USAGIVINDALOO

Hmm, no one has friendships they wanted to see developed further?

"This must be what going mad feels like."

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Sunday, April 9, 2006 3:49 PM

LAUGHINGMUSE

I'm trying to think of one of the friendships that I wouldn't have like to see further developed. Drawing a complete blank on that one...

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Monday, April 10, 2006 1:46 PM

LADYKNIGHT

I agree on the Wash/Simon friendship thing. I also wanna see Wash interacting with River. Personally, I would love it if Wash had a conversation with her and was frightened by how much of what she said not only made perfect sence...but actully happened.

As for Zoe...well...there's ONE priceless River/Zoe interaction that I'm certian we all remember... "River Honey, he's putting the hair away now." But other then that...It would be nice to see how that plays out. Especially now with, as mentioned, the extra layer.

Zoe and Simon I just plain and simple have issues immagening interacting. I always see their relationship as pure doctor/patiant. Maybe this is because the one instance I always think of in the case of Tams interacting with Washburnes has Zoe unconcious. (Out of Gas)

Meantime, I would ADORE some more Jayne and Zoe interaction.

Zoe and Inara would be interesting too...the two of them talking about Mal. Now there's a conversation I would not only pay to see...but steal money so I could afford to pay to see.

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Monday, April 10, 2006 2:34 PM

USAGIVINDALOO

Quote:
Originally posted by LadyKnight:
I agree on the Wash/Simon friendship thing. I also wanna see Wash interacting with River. Personally, I would love it if Wash had a conversation with her and was frightened by how much of what she said not only made perfect sence...but actully happened.

As for Zoe...well...there's ONE priceless River/Zoe interaction that I'm certian we all remember... "River Honey, he's putting the hair away now." But other then that...It would be nice to see how that plays out. Especially now with, as mentioned, the extra layer.

Zoe and Simon I just plain and simple have issues immagening interacting. I always see their relationship as pure doctor/patiant. Maybe this is because the one instance I always think of in the case of Tams interacting with Washburnes has Zoe unconcious. (Out of Gas)

Meantime, I would ADORE some more Jayne and Zoe interaction.

Zoe and Inara would be interesting too...the two of them talking about Mal. Now there's a conversation I would not only pay to see...but steal money so I could afford to pay to see.

Oh yes, the discussion about Book's hair was lovely. And it showed a somewhat maternal side of Zoe... I wonder if more interaction would develop that feeling? I just watched Objects in Space again for the second time and was struck by how much Zoe defended River, despite them not having much interaction besides... the hair.

I see your point on the Zoe and Simon thing. OiS had another moment between them when she's extracting the bullet from him; again, as you said, a doctor/patient relationship but there was a bit of good potential and banter in there ("Right, aaaand I'm going to pass out now, but you're doing great...") I think they could have at least a friendly professional relationship.

Zoe/Jayne... oh god, those two are funny. Yes, more of them, please, and more Zoe/Inara. I also wouldn't mind a bit more Simon/Inara as well. And now that I think about it... I'd like more actual conversations between Jayne and River, usually their interactions are Jayne complaining about her to other people while she's standing there.

Hell, just more interaction with the entire crew with the rest of the crew, please. XD And how about more interactions with guest cast? Jayne and YoSaffBridg, anyone?

"This must be what going mad feels like."

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Monday, April 10, 2006 2:41 PM

STARRBABY

Obviously with Book passing, I'll never get my wish, but I was really interested in his and Jayne's relationship. They seemed to really be buddies, and it seemed to hit Jayne pretty hard when Book died. I say this, becasue Jayne quoted book right before they "went into battle".

I'd also noticed a nice bond between Inara and Simon. It seems they reminded each other of their past lives. They got along so well. thios was shown in the "it was my b-day " talk in OOG.

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Monday, April 10, 2006 2:51 PM

NUCLEARDAY

Quote:
Originally posted by Starrbaby:
Obviously with Book passing, I'll never get my wish, but I was really interested in his and Jayne's relationship. They seemed to really be buddies, and it seemed to hit Jayne pretty hard when Book died. I say this, becasue Jayne quoted book right before they "went into battle".

Definately agree there. I think it added an interesting layer to both characters, seeing how they interacted. I always liked how Jayne might be more complicated than he lets on. Also liked how it was never really focused on, you just sort of saw them together in passing. They really are a rather unlikely pair at first glance.

And River and Jayne, or Simon and Jayne could be interesting, too. An episode where he's stuck somewhere with one or the other and they're forced to actual "deal" with each other could be fun.

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Monday, April 10, 2006 2:53 PM

REGINAROADIE

All the past recommendations I agree with, but here's my two cents.

I would have liked to have seen some more flashback interactions with Simon and River with their parents. To me, those two characters (and if you actually watch the ep, they don't even mention their names) are an untapped gold mine of material.

I dunno. I always thought YCGHA was my vain attempt at legitmizing them and making them more complex than the parents=bad equation you see all the time in fanfics, which I think is just lazy.

Hey starrbaby. How are your two little ones doing?

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Monday, April 10, 2006 3:10 PM

STARRBABY

Quote:
Originally posted by reginaroadie:

Hey starrbaby. How are your two little ones doing?

*.

hey there RR! Doing great. Don't get on here very often . . .really busy, as you might guess.

How are things on your side of the fence?

I must agree w/ you wanting to see more interaction with the Tams. I still haven't decided if Mom and Dad Tam were evil or just ignorant.

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Monday, April 10, 2006 3:29 PM

USAGIVINDALOO

I would say ignorant. I actually really liked the interaction of Daddy Tam with the two kids, he seemed like a really nice and supportive father. I remember being somewhat surprised that he and Mama Tam didn't pay attention to Simon's warnings, but I believe that it was more due to ignorance and misplaced faith in the government (ie they'd never do THAT) than actual evil.

Makes you wonder... what WOULD have happened had Simon and River returned to see their parents, and they had seen first hand how broken poor River was? I couldn't imagine they could deny what happened to her anymore... what would they do?

"This must be what going mad feels like."

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Monday, April 10, 2006 6:31 PM

BROWNCOATSANDINISTA

I would like to see some more of the Jayne/River relations. I think that theirs could be a Big Brother/Little Sister sort of relationship a bit more literally than with Kaylee. Just think - They could go out for a drink, play some cards, kick the crap out of a bunch of people, and then come back...With the stories. It'd thoroughly piss of Simon, something that I loathe to do, but it would be incredibly funny.

If anyone gets nosy...Shoot em.
Shoot em sir?
Politely.

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Tuesday, April 11, 2006 1:45 AM

J6NGO1977

I just like to see the whole 9 crew as a family develop together and no 2 characters to be focused on. AS for 'More than friend' relationshsips, they should definately not develop past flirting. Inara and Mal should never get together, Simon and Kaylee should never get together (although technically they did 'do it' in Serenity). this is not 'Friends in space' you know .LOL

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Sunday, April 16, 2006 9:35 PM

ELBURRITO

I personally adore all Kaylee/Wash hanging-outage. The dump trawling in Ariel, their ship-walking in HoG ("Everyone knows I'm the funny one."). I would have held out for some more. But I guess I'll never get that.

Also Mal/River ("She understands. She doesn't comprehend.") which I basically got in the BDM. And Inara/River, which seems big sisterly to me ("River, you want something to eat?")

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Monday, April 17, 2006 6:44 PM

LEESHAJOY

Quote:
Originally posted by elBurrito:
I personally adore all Kaylee/Wash hanging-outage. The dump trawling in Ariel, their ship-walking in HoG ("Everyone knows I'm the funny one."). I would have held out for some more. But I guess I'll never get that.

I second that. I think Wash and Kaylee must have been very close friends, just because they would be the ones left behind to babysit Serenity while everyone else was out whoring and/or thieving. I could see this playing into the next installment of the storyline--Kaylee being left on the ship, commenting how much she misses chatting with Wash, trying to strike up a conversation with River but being put off a bit by her general River-ness...

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Wednesday, June 7, 2006 7:57 AM

MRSU

Great thread.

What I would have liked to see is more Simon/Book/Inara interaction. They are from the same world, they've all run from it in one way or another - they have a lot in common and would have a lot to talk about.

Book would be (and is in the show) drawn to Simon for several reasons. Mal is his biggest challenge, yes, as Mal has lost faith and himself, in a way.
But Simon is a deep case as well. He certainly has a huge cross to bear and displays, I daresay, some saintly qualities while bearing it. Book acknowleges it in Train Job and tries to help him out (like offering to take care of River in Jamestown, and in other cases). Yes, he admires Simon's selfless sacrifice, but is it really that selfless? Simon does what he does not just for River, but for himself: he can't live without her. His father hits the spot whe he says " I thought River would be lost without her big brother, but I see the opposite is true". So it is selfish as well, in a way, and a bit close to, say, idol worshipping. Simon surely could use some spiritual guidance, as well as help and understanding in general.

Another reason: I rewatched the series 2nd time and realized how much Book would understand about what happened with River and Simon. He probably witnessed similar things during his career. There's a knowing look in his eyes, a recognition, during Simon's monologue in the pilot. And we also have their talk in War Stories, about Shan You and the government and them trying to understand what was done to River. Book might know so much about Alliance inner workings that he might be able to help with advice and practical guidance as well - given a chance.

Book and Jayne I also love: I noticed that Jayne started to hang out with Book after Ariel, and he started to change then. I would love to see more of that process.
And Book/Inara: I don't remember if we have more than their talk in the pilot. Inara helps him to come to terms with what happened then - I think they have more to teach each other.

UPD: Also I agree with those who say that Simon and River's parents are untapped goldmine of drama and mystery.
It is easy to dismiss them as cruel and cold conformists who would sacrifice their children for their social status. But their father shows a deep understanding of Simon, he sums up his son, what defines him as a person, in just two phrases: "I know that your work means much more to you than just a position", and the 2nd one I quoted above, that he is lost without River. He understands his son, but then just pushes him away - maybe it's not that simple?

They can know about what was done with River, and they might want her to become a super-elite top military brass, they just do not realize the cost of it. So they might be in on what is going on in Academy and think that Simon would jeopardize her future and not just his, if he tries to get her out. And they can't tell it to Simon because they are bound by secret or whatever.

Or it could be another thing. I was suprised in the show that feds used all means to get to Simon and River, but not the obvious one: blackmailing them with the lives of their parents. It would be so easy to take parents as hostages and let Simon know that something would happen to them if he doesn't come back. Maybe his father knowingly and publicly severed all ties with Simon so that Simon won't be blackmailed like this? To make his getaway easer? Sadly we will never know..

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Wednesday, June 7, 2006 8:18 AM

JOHNTHETHEATREFREAK

Quote:
Originally posted by j6ngo1977:
this is not 'Friends in space' you know .LOL

I on' think that comment is fair. Even though these people are living on the brink they still have feelings(we're talking here of people).

I would really love more interractions between Inara and River as well. I think there could've been some understanding between them and a good friendship. Think since Simon and Kaylee are of together we're stuck alone.

johnttf

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Wednesday, June 7, 2006 8:32 AM

MAL4PREZ

Quote:
Originally posted by LadyKnight:
Zoe and Inara would be interesting too...the two of them talking about Mal. Now there's a conversation I would not only pay to see...but steal money so I could afford to pay to see.

Did these really interact at all? I can't remember. Anyone got examples?

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Wednesday, June 7, 2006 8:47 AM

SPACEANJL

Just a passing conversation when they set up YoSaffBrig in Trash. I'm not sure those two 'get' each other. And I don't think Zoe is too thrilled at the way her commander gets his heart trampled so often.

Props on the Wash/Kaylee idea - someone wrote lovely little fic like that, but I can't recall it.

And I got my own ideas as to why River and Inara might not get on.
It's about six foot tall, brown hair and has a roguish grin.

SpaceAnJL

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Wednesday, June 7, 2006 8:59 AM

MAL4PREZ

Really, that's the only time they talk?

Thanks for the info, this is something I'm actually very curious about, as it'll play into my fic!

Yay! Research done!

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I'm the president. I don't need to listen.

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Wednesday, June 7, 2006 9:20 AM

ZISKER

I can see Simon and Wash having gotten on pretty well - and I do think that River brings out the mile-wide maternal streak in Zoe. I also would've liked to see what happens with River and Badger because he left quite the impression on her.

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Wednesday, June 7, 2006 9:31 AM

SPACEANJL

You read my mind. I have a plot bunny which I am feeding crack-coated carrots. And then I will unleash it.

SpaceAnJL

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Wednesday, June 7, 2006 9:57 AM

IMALEAF

More River and Jayne, don't much care if it is good, bad, little sister/big brother, sexual, or like the characters in the movie The Professional.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0110413/
Just more River and Jayne.

~~River: Bible's broken. Contradictions, false logics. Doesn't make sense.~~

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Wednesday, June 14, 2006 6:58 PM

WTE

Jayne and Book were my favorite duo, I think. They get awfully introspective around each other, especially considering one of them is Jayne. They complement each other nicely. One of my favorite scenes in the series is in The Message, when they're talking about reactions to death.

Wash and Kaylee, too. A lot of this is influenced by the Jewel/Alan commentary, which I loved.

This one isn't really a relationship issue, but I would have liked to see some more "normal River" moments as the series progressed... not the ones where she gives her, "wtf you crazy" looks, but like at the end of Objects in Space, when she says, "That's the popular theory" and sounds like a teenage girl. Good end.

HONKS

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Friday, June 16, 2006 10:28 PM

TRAVELER

Book and Jayne seemed relate. Jayne would open up to Book. Like the discussion on how dead people have different effects on people in "The Message". But Book seems to share himself with just about everyone on Serenity. That's why I didn't him being killed off in the movie. If the story were to continue I feel River would fill in for Book. By being in touch with peoples feeling she could give them guidance. And if River replaces Wash as pilot she would be working closely with Kaylee as Wash did when Serenity was sabotaged by Mrs. Reynolds. As for the others, Mal is still wound to tight to let Inara in his life. Well the movie finally got Simon and Kaylee on the same page. And I don't anything happening for Zoe now that Wash is gone. She wanted children and now that won't happen. And Jayne will probably continue to whore his way though life. Of course this is all up to Joss isn't it.

And what do we do with the chain of command?

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Friday, June 16, 2006 10:28 PM

TRAVELER

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Friday, June 16, 2006 10:32 PM

TRAVELER

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Friday, June 23, 2006 1:22 PM

TRAVELER

What a mess. I thought I wasn't getting through so I kept hitting the reply. Now I find I have three of the same replies on this thread. Didn't mean to take up so much space. you can delete two of them if you want. Seems silly to have all those duplicate messages. But the system seems to be working again so I hope this will cause less confusion.

And what do we dowith the chain of command?

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Wednesday, August 9, 2006 7:20 PM

TERRI

Hmmm, as far as that goes, I really would like to see the whole Inara/Tams thing develop. At least, Inara and Simon. I feel like they all have such a familial relationship with one another. Like in Heart of Gold, where they're delivering the baby, and both Inara and Simon admit that this will be their first delivery. And then Inara kisses him on the cheek and says something to the effect of 'you're a great doctor', or some such. It was just so innocent with no pretense, and Simon just grimaces (at the prospect) and goes on with what he's doing. I'd say Kaylee interacting with everybody was awesome. I think that her relationship with Zoe was headed for some looking into. It seems to me they've known each other as long as Mal and Kaylee have known each other. Wash and Kaylee's relationship was so adorable. Just because they were both mechanically inclined and could feed off of the others enthusiasm.

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Wednesday, August 9, 2006 10:10 PM

PLATONIST

Always love that moment between I/S and the cheek kiss, very sweet and not in a shippy way. The Tams and Inara do seem at ease with each other, refined. Of course Mal is hell bent on keeping them apart(as we see in the pilot) because most conversations between him and Inara end in frustration and confusion. I like Wash, Kaylee and Zoe together, also. Zoe and Simon would be fun, like what we see in the opening of The Message. Wash and Inara had little screen time together, but I always thought that he appreciated her sense of humor, especially when she outwits Jayne.

One of the running criticisms of the movie is that these relationships were shelved for a Mal/River (with a dash of Inara "the girl left behind") centric story. Nine characters would have been a challenge, I understand, but they made a much more complete family on the smaller screen. Love this topic.

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Wednesday, August 9, 2006 11:08 PM

ROMANCEGURU

I adore Kaylee/Wash

Inara/River - Motherly bonding, with Zoe as well

Wash/River - Teaching her how to fly

I love the Jayne/Book dynamic becausethey are from different ends of the spectrum, yet get along very well. I also think books guidance played would of played a major role in helping Jayne grow a moral conscious.

Jayne/River - Every time their on screen together, I’m completely engrossed. I love the snidely comments and weird looks he is always giving her. Also when Jayne say’s “She starts on that ‘girl's name’ thing…” You get the idea she tease’s him often. I don’t think seeing Jayne teased and knocked out by a 90lb girl will ever get old.”

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"Will you not do that while we...ever!"

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Saturday, October 21, 2006 5:15 AM

DAGS

More Mal / Jayne. I think that relationship was really not used enough in the series. Despite Jayne's roughness and his greed, his sense of right and wrong is close to Mal's and Mal obviously bonded with people he'd been in battle with.

River / Jayne. Would have loved to see them together after she killed all those reavers. She would have immediately become respected and treasured by him (in a big brother way) and he would have loved doing dangerous stuff with her to make Simon angry.

Mal / Kaylee. One of my favourite scenes is where one of them passes the other (cant remember which one was sitting on the steps and which one was walking past) and they hold eachother's hand for a second. I would have liked to have seen Mal call Simon on his intentions toward Kaylee.

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