What is THE ALLIANCE? by zeke023

FIREFLY EPISODE DISCUSSIONS

What is THE ALLIANCE?

POSTED BY: ZEKE023
UPDATED: Monday, January 26, 2004 04:22
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Wednesday, January 21, 2004 3:58 AM

The Union of Allied Worlds.
Is it a representative democracy, a republic? Are there elected officials? Ambassadors exist (they keep teasing Inara that she is one and Book thinks they are serious). Ambassadors to what? Are there different governments to be Ambassadors to?

How is order maintained? How does the police force work? How do they communicate? Does the Cortex on one world connect to the Cortex on another? (this has to be the case as the warrent on simon came out over the Cortex - but then why couldn't Serenity use the Cortex to get help in 'Out of Gas'?)

What is Interpol?
How is government different on Core planets versus fronteir planets?
Was Patience an elected official or do rim planets just operate under the rule of whoever owns the land?

Help?

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Wednesday, January 21, 2004 6:12 AM

BOBSUNCORP

Obviously without going Foxhunting we can not be sure of the answer to a lot of those questions, but I think the key to understanding the alliance is when one of the commentaries (and isn't the Fox disclaimer about how all comments etc are only personal opinions of the people involved - not Fox statements - funny!) mentioned that the Alliance is more of a corporation than a government. Imagine that the only people with the money and motivation to invest in interplanetary expansion would be businesses hoping to set up mining contracts etc. Fast forward a few hundred years, and the space corporations have grown to such a massive size with whole planets as "employees" that there are only 2 left. Joss tells us that one is an American business and one is Chinese, they then merge to form the Alliance. This is a monopoly gone mad, and without a powerfully armed Monopolies and Mergers Commision, not much could be done.

The point of all this I think is that the planetary governments that had been set up would still resemble a business hierarchy, with promotion opportunities, probably a board of managers/directors (depending on how high you go) and probably some CEO with the power of God (I wonder if his name is Book?). I'm sure there is a large amount of corruption aswell, and so it is entirely possible for people to "buy" their promotions into the position of planetary governor, or if they are not under heavy Alliance supervision then ruthlessness will win out. Elections do not seem likely in this kind of scenario, unless the candidates are elected by their bosses, rather than the public.

From what I understand of the Cortex, it is like the internet. A wireless connection can be made in some places (on a planet, in a heavily populated system) but when out in the black the signal has too far to go before it can be picked up by a relay station or similar.

Most of all, the primary motivation of the Alliance is not what is best for its citizens, but profit. In many cases this is the same thing, because the better the economy of the Alliance the better its subjects will live, but at the cost of the individuals freedom when weighed against possible profit increases. Nice eh!

Course, this is just my opinion. Anyone want to prove me wrong?

-Bob

"Live with a man for 40 years. Eat the same meals, speak with him on every subject, then tie him up and hold him over the mouth of a volcano. On that day, you will meet the man".

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Wednesday, January 21, 2004 8:24 AM

ZEKE023

I wast thinking more of the "Civil War" model that Joss puts forth.

The Alliance is like the Union. It is very business like - the reason for the civil war was all about the South and its raw materials and production (not slavery - that came later). That is a government which is very business like by nature of being a corrupt and capatalistic. However, there are still elected officials and politics - they're just not so straight and narrow.

Are there any references to politicians and such? Any references to elected officials or otherwise? hmm....

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Wednesday, January 21, 2004 8:53 AM

MOMAW

>> Are there any references to politicians and such? Any references to elected officials or otherwise? hmm.... <<

Inara's client in "War Stories" is a 'councilor'. Council of what, who knows. The only information we can assemble is that:

1) She has her own private bodyguard hence is probably mid-level or better in some heirarchy.

2) She has enough power or influence that Inara thought there was a possibility she could help in resucing Mal and Wash.

3) She has authority to access medical equipment, apparently specialized equipment.

Very vague.

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Thursday, January 22, 2004 11:05 AM

ZEKE023

Quote:
Originally posted by Momaw:

Inara's client in "War Stories" is a 'councilor'. Council of what, who knows.

Perhaps 'Councellor' means something in the criminal justice field? Don't they sometimes refer to lawyers as councellors?

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Friday, January 23, 2004 12:04 AM

DRAKON

Quote:
Originally posted by zeke023:
Quote:
Originally posted by Momaw:

Inara's client in "War Stories" is a 'councilor'. Council of what, who knows.

Perhaps 'Councellor' means something in the criminal justice field? Don't they sometimes refer to lawyers as councellors?

I think it was like as in member of a council, one of the rulers of that planet. She certainly had some pull.

There is a cut scene where Inara visits the Councilor at her home. Her husband opens the door and is somewhat grouchy about visitors late at night. The Councilor is freaking because apparently, hubby does not know about his wife's other side. She figures Inara is going to blackmail her into going against Niska, who is too powerful, too well connected, and too dangerous, to go against. Either way, the councilor loses.

But Inara covers for the councilor by thanking her for the donation she made to a children's charity. Leaving hubby none the wiser.

"Wash, where is my damn spaceship?"

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Friday, January 23, 2004 3:34 AM

SERGEANTX

I think that, more than anything, the Alliance is a just a government. Its a large Federation of former nation states (worlds?) that have united for the purpose of putting an end to war. It has all the negative qualities one would expect from a government with the kind of power to approach such a lofty goal.

So far, all we've seen is Mal's particular perspective of that government and it's been mostly negative. That's pretty natural considering his experience, but there've been plenty of indications that the Alliance has more in common with the modern U.S. than with something like Nazi Germany.

A government that size leaves plenty of elbow room for evil people to do their will so we get bad people doing bad things aka the blue hands people. Just from the way Mal has dealt with some of the individual Alliance officers he's run into I think he's aware they're not all bad. I'd bet his question would be: "Is the peace and stability brought about by a large powerful government like the Alliance worth submitting to an impersonal bureaucracy that is largely indifferent to the suffering of individuals and small communities 'on the rim'?"

Regardless of its inspiration, someone has pointed out (I think it was on here somewhere) that the political situation in Firefly is not so much like the South after the U.S. civil war but really more like the American colonies might have been in the early 1800's if they'd lost the war with Britain.

SergeantX

"..and here's to all the dreamers, may our open hearts find rest." -- Nanci Griffith

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Friday, January 23, 2004 5:27 AM

SAINT JAYNE

Quote:
Originally posted by Drakon:
There is a cut scene where Inara visits the Councilor at her home.

You know much, Drakon. Where is this little pearl of knowledge from? Have you seen this clip? Maybe you swept the cutting room floor?

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Friday, January 23, 2004 5:45 AM

SHINY

Quote:
Originally posted by Saint Jayne:
Quote:
Originally posted by Drakon:
There is a cut scene where Inara visits the Councilor at her home.

You know much, Drakon. Where is this little pearl of knowledge from? Have you seen this clip? Maybe you swept the cutting room floor?

I had the same question. Please share, Drakon!

RIVER
Purple elephants are flying.
MAL
Good. Thanks for the update.

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Friday, January 23, 2004 6:01 AM

MOMAW

It's in the script. Buffyscripts.com or some such. I haven't read this one yet. When you find it, do a search for:

INT. COUNCILOR'S HOUSE - NIGHT

And you'll find the cut scene.

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Friday, January 23, 2004 6:36 AM

FORTUNATUS

Quote:
So far, all we've seen is Mal's particular perspective of that government and it's been mostly negative. That's pretty natural considering his experience, but there've been plenty of indications that the Alliance has more in common with the modern U.S. than with something like Nazi Germany.

Well, we've seen plenty of Alliance personnel. They sure dress and act like bargain basement Nazis. The corrupt cop from The Message could easily be a member of the Gestapo, and the Alliance soldier Zoe kills in the flashback is flat-out wearing a WWII Nazi helmet. My first thought when seeing an Alliance officer for the first time was that he looked like a Nazi doorman.

_______________
"Yep. That's a cow fetus."

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Friday, January 23, 2004 10:23 AM

OKKAY

Quote:
Originally posted by Momaw:
It's in the script. Buffyscripts.com or some such. I haven't read this one yet. When you find it, do a search for:

INT. COUNCILOR'S HOUSE - NIGHT

And you'll find the cut scene.

It's buffyscripts.net

I don't remember if this has been said, but on one of the commentaries I believe Joss or Tim mention that the Alliance is basically what would happen if corporations took over the government or something like that. Now I don't know what that means exactly, I don't know anything about business or politics, but that's what I got.

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Friday, January 23, 2004 10:36 AM

HOTPOINT

Quote:
Originally posted by Okkay:
I don't remember if this has been said, but on one of the commentaries I believe Joss or Tim mention that the Alliance is basically what would happen if corporations took over the government or something like that. Now I don't know what that means exactly, I don't know anything about business or politics, but that's what I got.

This is a bit of a crossover from something I posted on another thread. If we stick by the idea that the Alliance is a state run for and by corporations then you can strike up an interesting political parallel with some sections of British Imperial history

The British in India were initially there in a business orientated fashion as the East India Company. Later the Empire was formalised as the Government and the East India Company became so entwined that British Government Troops were involved in upholding British Corporate interests

How about this idea. Initially the Alliance (or its component companies) were in the terraforming business but eventually they coopted the government and the division between State and Corporations ceased to exist. Why not directly rule your investments by force of arms if necessary?

Informal Business becomes Formal Empire as it did in British India

Any thoughts?

...................................
Hurrah, hurrah, when things are at their worst
With cries of “Death or Glory” comes the mighty Twenty-First

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Saturday, January 24, 2004 1:47 AM

DRAKON

Quote:
Originally posted by Saint Jayne:
Quote:
Originally posted by Drakon:
There is a cut scene where Inara visits the Councilor at her home.

You know much, Drakon. Where is this little pearl of knowledge from? Have you seen this clip? Maybe you swept the cutting room floor?

I've been going through the shooting scripts over at buffyscripts.net and have found them fasinating, full of little nuggets of information and humor.

For this one, goto:
http://www.buffyscripts.net
select shows, then Firefly, and pick War Stories.
The scene in question is between Niska putting his pet on Mal, and the scene where Zoe and Wash are getting ready to go back in.

What can I say. We need more episodes. Maybe it ain't kosher for scrounging around the scripts like this, but dammit, I need more Firefly.

[In this case, and I have no inside knowledge, I don't think the scene was ever shot. It required additional set, an extra actor, and only marginally moves the story along. But I still like it.]

"Wash, where is my damn spaceship?"

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Saturday, January 24, 2004 1:52 AM

DRAKON

Quote:
Originally posted by Fortunatus:

Well, we've seen plenty of Alliance personnel. They sure dress and act like bargain basement Nazis. The corrupt cop from The Message could easily be a member of the Gestapo, and the Alliance soldier Zoe kills in the flashback is flat-out wearing a WWII Nazi helmet. My first thought when seeing an Alliance officer for the first time was that he looked like a Nazi doorman.

Fashion sense aside, the corrupt cop did not remind me so much of the Gestapo, but some of the stories about the Pinkerton Agency just after the Civil war. Those guys operated pretty much independently, and were pretty nast at times.

"Wash, where is my damn spaceship?"

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Saturday, January 24, 2004 2:30 AM

AMBIDANGEROUS

I do not see the Alliance as Nazis. The Nazis were far, far more frightening; the Alliance just seems to be a big, uncaring, bureaucratic machine.

(Watching the DVD, and learning a bit more of the history of the show, my wife and I thought the Joss with Firefly vs. Big TV Network ran sort of parallel to Mal with Serenity vs. the Alliance.)

I partially agree with the above posts implying the Alliance is some out of control megacorporation; actually, my take on it is, there exist out of control megacorporations, and the Alliance is more or less a puppet government designed to keep the riff raff (Simon, for instance) from interfering with their plans (scrambling someone's brains, for instance).

Oh, and greetings, everyone, I'm new here ;-)

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Saturday, January 24, 2004 7:03 AM

SAINT JAYNE

Quote:
Originally posted by Drakon:
I've been going through the shooting scripts over at buffyscripts.net and have found them fasinating, full of little nuggets of information and humor.

For this one, goto:
http://www.buffyscripts.net

Excellent Drakon, thanks. I'll have something to read on my way to work.

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Saturday, January 24, 2004 9:50 AM

HKCAVALIER

It's great to see all this renewed interest in all things Firefly since the DVD came out!

I've always liked to contrast the governmental structure in the Firefly universe with the one in good ol' Star Trek. In Star Trek we have what I would call "endgame socialism." There's no money, everybody does what they want and no one worries about healthcare or tax cuts or much of anything really--very utopian. Whereas, Firefly shows us "endgame capitalism." The Earth is depleted of all its resources ("used up") and the gulf between rich and poor becomes literally astronomical as corporations in need of new markets and new "third worlds" to exploit terraform whole planets to that end. Why else would you go to all the expense of terraforming a whole damn planet only to drop a few people on it and watch them struggle just to survive? Not at all cost effective unless your system depends on desperate people who will allow themselves to be exploited just to feel like they have a future. Look what's happening in the U.S. today with relatively afluent americans moving as quickly as they can away from the lowest paying jobs while desperate people from much poorer countries come here and gladly take whatever menial work we have to offer. And with the WTO and Bush's plans for legalizing illegal aliens our nation's dependancy on cheap foreign labor will only grow, until there's no where left.

I think this is the gravest argument against free market capitalism, actually, because it is a fundamentally short-sighted system dependant upon constant expansion (profit) just to function. It looks wonderful and shiny now but what are we gonna do down the line as our world gets smaller and smaller? What happens when there are no more markets into which to expand? Sadly it looks like the current answer is to declare war and create new markets by destroying existing infrastructures.

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

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Monday, January 26, 2004 4:22 AM

ZEKE023

It's the "Anglo-Sino Alliance" (or something like that) - American and Chinese governments. There were two gvoernments that merged - we know that much. The alliance was born out of the American and Chinese governments - at its root.

But what did it become?

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