how long has Mal owned Serenity? by gohm

FIREFLY EPISODE DISCUSSIONS

how long has Mal owned Serenity?

POSTED BY: GOHM
UPDATED: Monday, March 5, 2007 13:51
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Monday, November 27, 2006 8:10 PM

GOHM

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Monday, November 27, 2006 8:13 PM

GOHM

Oops - sorry. I forgot to include text besides the subject line.

Mal clearly is not a moneyed individual, so more than likely he had to gather some funds to buy his Firefly. So, at the start of Firefly, has he owned the ship for two years? Three? One?

Perhaps it took him five years after the war to buy Serenity, and at that point he contacted Zoe. It's never stated that they were together after the war.

Your thoughts will be most appreciated.

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Monday, November 27, 2006 8:41 PM

PHOENIXROSE

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.

In the commentary for Out of Gas, they were saying that the 'four plus years ago' flashbacks were shot in such and such a way, and the '24 hours ago' flashbacks another way and so forth. My best guess is that Mal has owned Serenity for about five years when the series starts. That gives a year after the war ended for him to save up for a ship. And remember, Serenity wasnt running when he bought her, which would have lowered the price.
It's also been said that Zoe and Wash were married a year after they met, so he HAS to have had it for more than a year.

[]

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Tuesday, November 28, 2006 4:29 AM

AGENTROUKA

5 years seems about right.

He couldn't have built his client base or "reputation" (said in Niska voice) in a short time.

And if there was a vast 4-year gap between the end of the war and the purchase of Serenity, it would have been alluded to, I think.

He could have gotten the money in many ways. Some kind of Alliance compensation for bombing Shadow to hell and destroying all his worldly possessions. Or maybe his first big crime! :D

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Tuesday, November 28, 2006 5:15 PM

TRAVELER

Mal's mother owned a ranch. If he inherited it, that might have given him his start. I'm taking a guess here. But Zoe might have invested in the ship. In "Out of Gas" I suspect Mal is showing the ship to Zoe to sell her into buying in. From the scene it was a hard sell.

Traveler

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Tuesday, November 28, 2006 5:38 PM

SCARECROW866

I always thought that Mal owned the ship outright because the first thing that Zoe asked Mal when she saw the ship was "You paid money for this, sir? On purpose?" She wasn't much impressed with Serenity in the beginning, was she?

Annie
You can't the sky from me.

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Wednesday, November 29, 2006 3:54 PM

TRAVELER

Yea Scarecrow866. Zoe did not show much enthusiasm. I like when she asks "What's that?" That is why I was surprized she joined Mal. They must have had a long time together during the war. As shown in "The Message" they differed in their methods, but there was respect for each other.

I still get the impression Mal is trying hard to get Zoe to like the ship so he can get her to invest. Didn't Mal sound like salesman showing a prospective buyer a new car. Or in this case a used one. A very used one.

Traveler

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Wednesday, November 29, 2006 7:32 PM

THIEFJEHAT

Quote:
Originally posted by traveler:
Mal's mother owned a ranch. If he inherited it, that might have given him his start.

The subject of Mal's ranch goes back to the start of the Unifaction War. The line in the Ballad of Serenity "Take My Land" refers to Mal's family losing their ranch to the alliance as a part of an anexation and occupation policy to quell rebellion. It was one of the reasons Mal joined up before the conflict.

This isn't Canon, but many ppl I know believe that's the backstory about the family ranch on Shadow.

Mal's money for Serenity might have come from the a land sale, but I tend to doubt it. I think he just pulled together all that he had, that not being much, and bought what he could afford. And judging Zoe's comment "You paid money for this?" he didn't have all that much when he was talking with that scrap ship dealer.

Do not fear me. Ours is a peaceful race, and we must live in harmony.

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Wednesday, November 29, 2006 7:35 PM

RIKMJWSL777

MALS OWNED SERENITY FOR 7 YEARS

RIKMJWSL777

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Wednesday, November 29, 2006 8:47 PM

PHOENIXROSE

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.

I think Mal was trying to sell Zoe on Serenity because he loved it so much. She was going to go with him regardless, but he wanted her to be enthused about it because he was.

And no, he cannot have owned Serenity for seven years, because the series takes place SIX years after the war. And I would appreciate it if you would stop yelling (using all caps)

As for the ranch, well, the Serenity Visual Companion says that when Mal tried to go home, it was destroyed. Don't think it would be worth much. (It also said that it just never occured to Zoe not to follow Mal, which is what I'm talking about in my first paragraph there)

[]

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Thursday, November 30, 2006 8:58 PM

BOUNTYBOY56

On Kaylee's section of the Serenity website it says that "Serenity was registered to Malcolm Reynolds in 2512" and in the intro to Firefly when it's aired on TV, it says "2517 A.D." in big ol' letters. So, usin' the art of mathematics, that's 4 to 5 years dependin' on what time of year Mal purchased his fine vessel and what time our window into their little world opened.

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Thursday, December 7, 2006 4:45 PM

SIXGUN

If they "layed down arms" at the Battle of Serenity as indicated in the pilot, Mal and Zoe probably spent some time as POW's. Maybe that year. Considering they may have gotten back pay and that during the war itself, Mal didn't spend much money, he could have just saved it up for duration of the war. Someone suggested he may have inherited the family ranch but if he had then why leave it? Nothing is said but I got the impression maybe the Alliance took it somehow.

5 years is probably right. You figure the war had to end and things had to settle down and Mal had to actually figure out what he wanted to do with his life after that.

Well, as a rule I say girl folk ain't to be trusted.

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Thursday, December 7, 2006 6:18 PM

MARTIANWAY

My theory of how Mal got Serenity goes something like this: after Battle of Serenity Valley, Mal and Zoe get put in a POW camp. Peace negotiations start, and one of the first things the Alliance and the Independants agree on is some sort of compensation, whereby soldiers will be compensated depending on their rank. News of this gets to the POW camp, and some Browncoat general, knowing Mal was the guy who commanded 500 troops in SV, figures the guy deserves to be more than a Sargent. He ends up promoting Mal at the very end of the war (explaining why, when the Operative looks up Mal, his rank is given as "Captian") and Mal gets a big ol' compensation package, enough to buy a ship.

I know one thing we did right
was the day we started to fight.
Keep your eyes on the prize
hold on, hold on...

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Thursday, December 28, 2006 9:56 AM

FASTMOVER

I've always been amazed at how Mal could have afforded even an old ship like Serenity. Even with a generous compensation a ship would still probably be very expensive and not just like buying a car. It would almost be like someone today going out and buying a used Boeing 747 to fly around. Although it's been done only very few could afford to. I've also wondered if Zoe ever bought in and maybe helped Mal out.

Josh Gray

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Thursday, December 28, 2006 11:05 AM

DAVESHAYNE

Quote:
Originally posted by Fastmover:
I've always been amazed at how Mal could have afforded even an old ship like Serenity.

Not just old. Obsolete, "They still make those?" and not functioning at the time of purchase. Plus there were already, "forty thousand of these wrecks in the air" when Mal bought Serenity so most people looking for a firefly could probably get a good enough deal on one that was already running. Serenity's value was probably solely that of scrap. Consider the chop shop operator in OMR, "It's a bunch of worthless parts we'll never unload." Twasn't untill it was put back into running order that it actually became worth anything.

David

"Not completely as well as the series of Firefly..." - From a review of Serenity at amazon.de

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Thursday, December 28, 2006 11:17 AM

DONCOAT

There's a possibility I've been thinking about, but I don't remember seeing it mentioned before.

We've had numerous hints about Mal's family's ranch on Shadow. It seems likely that it was destroyed by Alliance actions during the war. That's the background of the "Take my love, take my land" and "Burn the land and boil the sea" lines in the theme song.

So I believe that at some point we would have learned about a war crime involving Shadow, Mal's family, and his inheritance. I think it's possible that Mal received some form of compensation after the war for the loss of his family ranch. Even if it was "pennies on the dollar" it could have provided enough to finance the purchase of Serenity.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I'm pointin' right at it!

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Thursday, December 28, 2006 11:20 AM

NBZ

I would say the main cost for Serenity is the running costs, not it's upfront value.

Like an old gas guzzler.

and going 5 years back from OoG, it would be just over a year after Serenity Valley.

Then the POW camps where there was a possibility of him being tried for war crimes.

I would say he was released under some sort of agreement probably around the first U day or something. A sign showing that the 'lliance is peaceful anf forgiving. A good will gesture.

6 months to a year later Mal buys Serenity. How? Well that is an interesting story that somebody needs to tell...

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Thursday, December 28, 2006 11:23 AM

NCBROWNCOAT

Quote:
Originally posted by MartianWay:
My theory of how Mal got Serenity goes something like this: after Battle of Serenity Valley, Mal and Zoe get put in a POW camp. Peace negotiations start, and one of the first things the Alliance and the Independants agree on is some sort of compensation, whereby soldiers will be compensated depending on their rank. News of this gets to the POW camp, and some Browncoat general, knowing Mal was the guy who commanded 500 troops in SV, figures the guy deserves to be more than a Sargent. He ends up promoting Mal at the very end of the war (explaining why, when the Operative looks up Mal, his rank is given as "Captian") and Mal gets a big ol' compensation package, enough to buy a ship.

I know one thing we did right
was the day we started to fight.
Keep your eyes on the prize
hold on, hold on...

How did you steal my theory on Mal's rank? Just kidding. My idea is that some clerk at HQ, just being a clerk, needed a live person to put in the organizational chart for the unit-Mal was commanding the unit anyway so he got a battlefield promotion to Captain. I think Monty was maybe the sergeant major of the battalion and had something to do with his promotion.

I worked as a unit clerk in a Reserve unit once. You gotta have all the slots filled.

My theory on how he got his money is different though. His Ma had a lively trade in beef with the Core planets. She must have had a bank account on one of the Core planets that was frozen when hostilities broke out and it was unfrozen after the war.

Lots of paperwork but the most likely explanation for a sudden windfall of cashy money in a short time.

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Thursday, December 28, 2006 6:07 PM

BAGHEERA

i always assumed that after the war was resolved, Mal had his pay (combat and regular) largely stockpiled, as he was too busy to go on vacations and splurge at the time... and not the Jayne sort of person to live it up while he could, in any event.

no effort is spared to portray serenity as a piece of junk, and even the salesman didnt waste a breath trying to sell it to Mal...

blahblahblah... Mal took all the money he'd had stashed away in the bank... bought the first junk car he saw.. and drove away from all the bad memories into the sunset.

Oh, and I strongly doubt that he was given a field promotion to captain. It always felt to me that he left the war as sergeant, and Captain was a role and not a rank... hence certain character's insistence that he is captain now and "all just folk now".

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Friday, December 29, 2006 4:13 AM

ASARIAN

Quote:
Originally posted by Bagheera:

Oh, and I strongly doubt that he was given a field promotion to captain. It always felt to me that he left the war as sergeant, and Captain was a role and not a rank... hence certain character's insistence that he is captain now and "all just folk now".

If you're hinting to Bushwhacked, several times Harken refers to Mal as "Captain Reynolds" when he's indicating the title of the lead rank on a ship, but properly calls him "Sergeant" when referring to his military rank:

Harken: That's a very loyal crew you have there. But then I see by your record you tend to inspire that quality in people -- Sergeant.
Mal: It's not "sergeant." Not no more. War's over.

Exit field-promotion theory.

--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

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Friday, December 29, 2006 4:18 AM

NCBROWNCOAT

He may not have known that he had been promoted considering the state of communications shown in the pilot. But the Alliance, being the efficient beaucracy that they are, captured the HQ records and so he was listed as a Captain on their records.

Also, the money his Ma left in the bank account wasn't that much because the ranch was in desperate times.

It's part of a fic that I'm working on. I haven't gotten past the first page yet, another fic having taken over my brain, and the holidays and all.

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Friday, December 29, 2006 8:01 AM

BAGHEERA

Quote:

Exit field-promotion theory.

even if i dont have any faith in that theory...

the fact that one of his war buddies still calls him sergeant doesnt mean he wasnt promoted afterwards...

obviously since Harken lived, he wasnt at the battle of Serenity... so their units split at some point or other... and the last rank he may have known Mal at was Sergeant.

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Friday, December 29, 2006 2:04 PM

ASARIAN

Quote:
Originally posted by ncbrowncoat:

He may not have known that he had been promoted considering the state of communications shown in the pilot. But the Alliance, being the efficient beaucracy that they are, captured the HQ records and so he was listed as a Captain on their records.

Not in Harken's records, he weren't. :) Harken, commanding a city-wide Alliance cruiser, squarely has him listed as Sergeant.

--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

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Friday, December 29, 2006 2:10 PM

ASARIAN

Quote:
Originally posted by Bagheera:

obviously since Harken lived, he wasnt at the battle of Serenity...

Huh? As in: obviously, since Mal lived he wasn't at the battle of Serenity? That don't make no sense.

Quote:

so their units split at some point or other... and the last rank he may have known Mal at was Sergeant.

Ah; but don't ya think Mal would have corrected him? Something like: It weren't "sergeant," but "Captain". Unless Mal forgot himself, but then things just get a mite too weird for me. :)

--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

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Friday, December 29, 2006 2:53 PM

ZZETTA13

Just adding my $.40 cents

Seems to me that after the loss by the independent army in Serenity Valley the war was pretty much over (as has been stated) but it wasn't quite finished yet. The pilot eps clearly notes that the fencing of the exhausted Alliace vessel is 6 years after that battle. This means that the OoG eps where Mal meets up and links with most of Serenity's crew could have taken almost a year to happen. 4 to 5 years would be my guess as to how long Mal has had the ship.

On another note I feel Mal did have some family money after the war but he was not rich by any means. I think it took all of his savings to get Serenity and that he got the craft at a bargain price. Remember the sales guy trying to sell him another craft altogether. But with Mal it was love at first sight. Why? because that little craft ment FREEDOM.

Z

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Friday, December 29, 2006 3:13 PM

PIRATECAT

When I see Mal and Zoe together I grab my wallet. Times are hard after the war. I think they robbed alliance payrolls arriving at border planets. I am sure Zoe had no home since she was born on a spaceship. She's come along way with Mal they are 2 peas in a pod. They are just family. Mal always has a plan. That's why Zoe doesn't count him out. Now in the role playing book Mal's home planet Shadow was bombed out of exsistance from the get go of the war. The Union after the War of Northern Aggression only paid for farms they destroyed not what Confederates did. So I believe Shadow an Independence stronghold was not given any money to settlers for their farms and ranches destroyed by the Alliance. So I believe they robbed banks and trains just like Ole Jesse James Gang. Then they got enough to buy a firefly transport. I think Zoe gave Mal her share and is just a silent partner. It makes sense she trust him with everything. Serenity is their home and the crew is family.

"Battle of Serenity, Mal. Besides Zoe here, how many-" "I'm talkin at you! How many men in your platoon came out of their alive".

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Friday, December 29, 2006 4:52 PM

BAGHEERA

Quote:

Huh? As in: obviously, since Mal lived he wasn't at the battle of Serenity? That don't make no sense.

not, mal... mal's warbuddy that kept calling him sarge... someone named him as harken... but that appears to be an alliance character.

you don't call an officer sarge... but if he WAS promoted post-serenity valley, his warbuddy wouldnt have been there for it.

also, the records the alliance members show are generally from Serenity Valley, which may indicate the rank at the time of the battle, and not subsequent promotions... but then again... Badger made reference to him being a sergeant in the war, and if Mal had been promoted to officer, that would have created a whole different dynamic to that. (although, I think Badger treated the sergeant rank as though it were comparable to officer, which kinda confused me)

Quote:

Ah; but don't ya think Mal would have corrected him?

Zoe corrected him if I recall correctly ?

All in all, I find no reason to believe Mal ever got promoted past sergeant except for the babylon 5-ish rigmarole that all the main characters are destined to be big muckitimucks.

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Friday, December 29, 2006 10:26 PM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT

Mal's rank.
In the BDP ( Big Damn Pilot) deleted scenes, Zoe talks about Mal being a sergeant at the Battle of Serenity Valley, and commanding a platoon. But she said that by the end of the first week, so many offecers had been killed that he was commanding a regiment, I think, leading over 4000 men. He maybe never got a formal promotion, the battle bein' so costly and all, and the browncoats losing the war there.

Then he want to POW camp , after the surrender. I've heard the Shadow being turned to a black rock by the Alliance story before, I guess from the RPG. Makes sense.

SO Mal had nowhere to go, but got a little money as reparations and back pay or settlement or whatever, after the peace. Spent all he had, to buy the ship and get her running.

He brought Zoe along because she was his sidekick, and it never entered his mind that she wouldn't come. But he wanted her to feel the same way about the ship he did. Also never entered her mind that she wouldn't follow him.

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Saturday, December 30, 2006 1:58 PM

ASARIAN

Quote:
Originally posted by Bagheera:

Quote:

Huh? As in: obviously, since Mal lived he wasn't at the battle of Serenity? That don't make no sense.

not, mal... mal's warbuddy that kept calling him sarge... someone named him as harken... but that appears to be an alliance character.

Yes. Harken is the Commander of the Alliance cruiser, and the man who interrogates the crew.

Quote:
Quote:

Ah; but don't ya think Mal would have corrected him?

Zoe corrected him if I recall correctly ?

I meant: when Harken, Commander of the Alliance cruiser, called him "Sergeant," Mal surely would have corrected him if his last-begotten war-rank had been Captain.

--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

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Saturday, December 30, 2006 2:12 PM

NCBROWNCOAT

Quote:
Originally posted by asarian:
Quote:
Originally posted by Bagheera:

Oh, and I strongly doubt that he was given a field promotion to captain. It always felt to me that he left the war as sergeant, and Captain was a role and not a rank... hence certain character's insistence that he is captain now and "all just folk now".

If you're hinting to Bushwhacked, several times Harken refers to Mal as "Captain Reynolds" when he's indicating the title of the lead rank on a ship, but properly calls him "Sergeant" when referring to his military rank:

Harken: That's a very loyal crew you have there. But then I see by your record you tend to inspire that quality in people -- Sergeant.
Mal: It's not "sergeant." Not no more. War's over.

Exit field-promotion theory.

--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

The only problem is the screen in the BDM that the Operative looks at lists Mal's rank as Captain in the 57 Overlanders.

Being a former Sergeant I'd much rather be a Sergeant than a Captain.

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Monday, January 29, 2007 2:59 PM

KAIO

Quote:
Originally posted by ncbrowncoat:
The only problem is the screen in the BDM that the Operative looks at lists Mal's rank as Captain in the 57 Overlanders.

Being a former Sergeant I'd much rather be a Sergeant than a Captain.

I'm going to agree with ncbrowncoat here, seeing as how Mal is very sentimental towards the war, he would have seen himself still as a Sergeant, since his Captain promotion was just a technicality.

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Monday, January 29, 2007 3:22 PM

DECAF

Quote:
Being a former Sergeant I'd much rather be a Sergeant than a Captain.

Being a current Sergeant I have to agree. Mal shows all the signs of an NCO (i.e. he knows what the hell he's doing). I don't think I can accept the field promotion theory until I see Mal get everyone lost while using a map.

Where is the POW reference from? The deleted pilot scenes suggest that the two sides had already come to terms by the time they were evacuated from Serenity Valley. There would be no need for prisoners if the war was over unless you're looking for political vindication, which is the last thing the Alliance needed. They needed the Independents to finally accept Alliance control or the war would start all over again.

My personal theory is that he took whatever 30 pieces of silver he was given not to cause anymore trouble and spent the next year making it into enough to buy his freedom (a.k.a. Serenity).

_________________________________
"The probability that we may fail in the struggle ought not to deter us from the support of a cause we believe to be just."
- Abraham Lincoln

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Monday, January 29, 2007 4:19 PM

NCBROWNCOAT

The POW reference is from the Visual Companion. Joss wrote an article to explain things and he said that the survivors from Serenity Valley were held as POWs for a while. Some wanted to prosecute them for war crimes but they were eventually released.

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Monday, March 5, 2007 1:51 PM

BLUEEYEDBRIGADIER

I think it's been about 5 years by the time of the pilot episode being set. Gives time for the crew to slowly build to the size it was at the start of the series, and allows for Niska-indicated "reputation" to have been built.

Now...on the matter of how Mal afforded her...I have this wacky idea that Mal's mysterious background (cuz I know there's more than just a family cattle ranch, damn it!) includes having a wealthy relative who made sure Mal got paid off to not come along one day and cause trouble. Not a whole lot...but enough to get Serenity, entice Wash initially (cuz he hadn't met Zoe yet

) and hire Bester, and get his ship fixed enough to move. Cuz I can't imagine the Alliance giving Mal compensation for having his home blown to shit during an orbital bombardment...less it was a vengeance measure by some rogue ship commander. And getting back pay for his role as a rebel army NCO? More plausible, but I can't imagine it being a whole lot, even if he got a last-minute battlefield commission.

' border='0' alt='Sweet Charity' />

Come bid on my delectable derriere at the Sweet Charity auction! Buy me for a good cause;D

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