Now That You've Seen It, Let Everyone Know What You Think! by Haken

Quote:
Originally posted by Haplo721:
Anyone think it's odd that Band-Aids are still being made 400 years from now?

Spoons, knives, band-aids (tm), Asprin, some things fill a technological niche and will be around forever.

Jeff
Who is going over the tape just to list the firearms collection. Where the hell did they get a Wildly Gas Operated Pistol?

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Saturday, September 21, 2002 1:49 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Hjermsted:
The women on the show are beautiful AND three-dimensional. mattro

Naw, too thin. But Kaylee is close.

Jeff
Who prefers a more well rounded beauty.

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Saturday, September 21, 2002 5:16 AM

ALTERNITY

"Naw, too thin. But Kaylee is close."

It's interesting that you say that. I hope she doesn't mind that i tell this, but Jewel (Kaylee) had to gain 15 pounds for the part. It was in the contract. I think she looks great.

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Saturday, September 21, 2002 8:07 AM

JASONZZZ

All I've got to say is:

Thank the Lord there is absence of CAMP.

A good SciFi is hard to find. First rule
is the lack of

camp.

no sig. I am too good for that..

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Saturday, September 21, 2002 8:40 AM

ALTERNITY

Quote:
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:

All I've got to say is:

Thank the Lord there is absence of CAMP.

A good SciFi is hard to find. First rule
is the lack of camp.

no sig. I am too good for that..

Joss Whedon is a master of camp. He also can't resist being funny. I wondered how he would include humor without being campy. I wondered if he COULD include humor without being campy. He did it.

roj

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Saturday, September 21, 2002 9:02 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Jerry:
I thought it was terrific. Better than I expected, and I thought I'd like it.

I've had the same reaction. I expected Firefly to be good, but it managed to be good in ways that suprised me.

Quote:
They did labor a bit under the burden of introducing so many characters...

This was inevitable given the decision to hold back, and probably retool, the pilot. That ep was able to introduce all the characters in a leisurely manner, and as part of the story. One of my favorite parts of Serenity is the story of how Book happens to buy passage on the ship. This stretched out over several scenes and also helped fill out some of the other characters. In The Train Job, they had to cover the same ground in a single scene between Book and Mal. Which was, as you say, forced, and which also created a minor plot hole.

It also hurt not to have all the scenes in the pilot that introduced Simon and River. Their story is obviously going to be crucial to the seasonal arc, and making viewers miss the beginning is not very smart.

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Saturday, September 21, 2002 9:18 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Alternity:

Joss Whedon is a master of camp. He also can't resist being funny. I wondered how he would include humor without being campy. I wondered if he COULD include humor without being campy. He did it.

Whedon loves to make a joke. But "campy" and "funny" are not the same thing. "Campy" refers to a very unnatural, over-the-top kind of humor, like on the 60s Batman TV series. Whedon's sense of humor is more subtle and complicated. It's my understanding that he really hates Camp, and is still pissed that his script for the Buffy movie was turned into a Camp Fest.

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Saturday, September 21, 2002 9:51 AM

ALTERNITY

Hmm.... I think of Buffy as really campy. That's why I like it. I wouldn't like it otherwise.

roj

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Saturday, September 21, 2002 10:53 AM

NOVAGRASS

Quote:
Originally posted by Alternity:
Hmm.... I think of Buffy as really campy. That's why I like it. I wouldn't like it otherwise.

roj

Perhaps your definition of camp is different than Zicsoft's.

I personally believe that Buffy's main strength is that it avoids camp while maintaining lightheartedness.

--Dylan Palmer, aka NoVaGrAsS--

"Oh, shoot" - Mal

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Saturday, September 21, 2002 11:08 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Novagrass:

I personally believe that Buffy's main strength is that it avoids camp while maintaining lightheartedness.

I agree. I don't necessarily dislike camp. I actually enjoyed the Buffy movie -- sorry Joss -- and also Airplane! (but not the sequel) and Top Secret! and other stuff like that. But that sort of broad self-mocking is completely different from Whedon's more subtle humor.

Here's a more obvious difference: Whedon likes to make you laugh, but he's not a commedian. He's a story-teller. A commedian uses a story to tell jokes, whereas Whedon uses jokes to tell a story.

Oh, here's another example. Anybody seen Zero Effect?

http://castle-rock.warnerbros.com/zeroeffect/

One of my favorite movies. And very funny. But if you call it "camp" -- well, I'll just have to have you killed!

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Saturday, September 21, 2002 12:02 PM

JASONZZZ

Andromeda defines camp. Cleo2626 *defines* camp.
Afterawhile, Hercules and Xena also defined camp.

Let's face it. There is Airplane/Naked Gun funny/
There's Three Stooges/Scooby Doo funny.
There's John Cleese/Monty Python funny.
There's Jim Carrey/Dumb-n-Dumber really stupid (I can barely bring myself in saying it) funny.

And then there is campy. Andromeda, Cleo, Hercules, Xena were not even original in campiness, they were the same old tired campiness. Just completely asinine - can't even bring yourself to groan and roll your eyes - because you just can't belief they wasted film doing that - sort of campy. They could have at least innovated on it, Airplane innovated campy and bathroom humor without it being tiresome. They strung the jokes until they know they couldn't get away with it anymore and went on to the next one. Yes, I groaned and moaned at how completely dumb some of the jokes were. But they were smart and innovative (and stupid) jokes. It worked.

Tired, stupid, and dumb camp doesn't. It's beyond
the point of feeling being insulted. It's beyond the point of even knowing that they didn't cared or didn't tried at all. It's beyond the point that you know that the writers are completely tired and didn't really even want to shuffle in to commit something to paper. It's like the entire production just wanted to commit suicide, and yet the writers can't believe people are still watching the same tired stupid crap.

That's what I hate.

That's what really killed me.

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Saturday, September 21, 2002 3:55 PM

CARDIE

I was very happy with the first episode. I'm a big fan of westerns, and I'm thrilled to see one on television again, even if it's set in space. Since I'm also a big SF fan, this is heaven for me. The ensemble all did nice takes on very standard character types. I can't wait to see "Serenity" and get all the backstory. My favorite Joss Whedon moment was when the thug in the bar said that Mal's coat looked brown, and Mal said that he got it on sale.

Cardie

"Well, they're saved from the blessings of civilization."--Doc Boone, Stagecoach

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Saturday, September 21, 2002 6:28 PM

SUNTZU

I have to say I loved it right from the start.

You could see Joss Whedon’s typical balance of humour and action which makes his other shows so good. The characters are interesting and three dimensional and I quickly became emotionally invested in them.

One exception was Jayne, it may have just been the circumstances he was in, but he acted like a jerk in a lot of his scenes. Although I loved his line about the “Chain of Command”

Anyways, I like this show and I only hope more people watch it so it stays on the air. I’m certainly going to recommend it to my friends and I hope everyone else does too.

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Sunday, September 22, 2002 1:56 AM

QUEENTIYE

This was a pretty good ep - I especially want to know more about the companion. So far I like the female characters and feel mostly neutral about the males.

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Sunday, September 22, 2002 4:01 PM

FASTAL

I haven't been this dissappointed since the last Star Trek first episode. The characters are all so one dimensional and in a role it is sickening. I will leave the season pass on my TiVO for now because as far as I'm concerned Firefly can only get better since it has started out so poorly.

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Sunday, September 22, 2002 6:17 PM

MILLERNATE

I still haven't commented on the actual episode yet! I must be slipping in my old age

(I can remember when The Simpsons were on the Tracy Ulman show...does that make me old?).

Any way the mostly non-spoilery thoughts (and those that are include the relevent tag):

The Good:

The FX looked good, which is a good thing after having heard about various delays from the company. The Serenity itself looked excellent.

Adam Baldwin. While there wasn't a high total of bad acting, most of the performers in question ranged from "alright" (Alan Tudyk couldn't hope to be better give his sad lack of screen time) to "above average" (Nathan Fillion as the captain). Baldwin, however, was freaking great. From the

Select to view spoiler:

Chain of command

line to

Select to view spoiler:

any scene were he was doped up

he was absolutely great. Even if I didn't like the show I'd still watch to see what the actor could do with the role (and I do like the show).

I very much enjoyed the last half of the show as things started to go far more right as well. I'd go into specifics but I don't want to use that much spoiler space.

Things I didn't Like:

This show really didn't seem to have a lot of depth. Even the worst episodes of Buffy (well, up until the current year anyway) usually had some sort of message or subtext underneath things that made it worthwhile. I didn't see anything of that nature in Firefly and I watched the episode in question twice.

Lack of screentime for Ron Glass. You have an Emmy nominated actor and you don't give him screentime? Yeah I'm biased but I'm not the NY Times, I'm allowed to be biased

.

Fox not having the guts to show the pilot as is. Better to have a slow akward start where we get to know the characters (even if Mike Duffy from the Detroit Free Press said the original pilot was murky and confusing) then to go in blind.

THe opening theme: I didn't hate it, and it could be my TV, but something about the lyrics didn't really come through right and I ended up with the feeling that I was missing words.

The feel of the episode itself. Do to the negative buzz this episode BADLY needed to blow everyones socks off to get them set for more (aka the 24 philosophy) and it didn't. It wasn't bad but when compared to the first 2 episodes of Buffy (WTTH/TH and THe Witch) you really get a sense of just being there.

All in All: A 3.5 out of 5. Solid but it will have to get better than this if it hopes to keep my support (and even to survive period). It go into week 2 of my standard "4 week trial period" with my mind not yet made up.

Nathan
"It looks like a great adventure...That's what it is; that's what it feels like. When I saw the pilot, it was really engaging. It was exciting. It was unusual. It threw me off every now and then. I think people will be grabbed by it." - Ron Glass, on the pilot, during an interview with the Indianapolis Star

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Sunday, September 22, 2002 8:01 PM

MALCOLM

Having seen the pilot, it was a crime not to show it first.

You learn about the Alliance and the war.

You discover why everyone is on the ship.

You learn about River's past.

Fox was afraid of having the story unfold in the same way that a movie does. Pussies.

Wait until you see Minear's episode (#2). It rocks in a scary Alien-like way.

Keep watching...

P.S. 24 just won an Emmy for writing... WRITING! Directing? maybe. Acting? maybe. Writing?????? Must stop being an idealist....

-MBS

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Sunday, September 22, 2002 10:22 PM

CANTINERA

Well, I just signed up for this board. I really enjoyed the first episode. I am a fan of Angel, used to watch Buffy, but really didn't pay much attention to the buzz around Firefly this summer because I was on a trip. Anyway, I decided to tune in since Tim and Joss were a part of this show, and I really enjoyed it! I love the off-beat humor, the Western vibe and all of the characters. It wasn a bit slow at the beginning, but I see potential for future eps. Oh, and so far my favorite characters are Zoe, Inara, Simon and Jayne.

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Monday, September 23, 2002 6:28 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by TinyTimm:

Spoons, knives, band-aids (tm), Asprin, some things fill a technological niche and will be around forever.

What? You mean the spoon will never be replaced by a Forcefield Liquid Ingestion Device (FLID)? What's the point of all this progress if we can't have our FLIDs???!!!

You've given me an excuse to repeat one of my favorite Star Trek stories. When they were shooting an early ep, they needed a salt shaker as a prop. They searched desperately for futuristic looking salt shakers, and found quite a few. Problem: how was the audience supposed to recognize these weird gizmos for what they were? So they ended up using a ordinary salt shaker from the Desilu canteen. But they didn't throw out those futuristic salt shakers -- they used them as surgical instruments!

Quote:

Jeff
Who is going over the tape just to list the firearms collection. Where the hell did they get a Wildly Gas Operated Pistol?

For that matter, what the hell is a Wildly Gas-Operated Pistol? Can't find it on the net.

(Hey Haken, I did a search just now and came up with Jeff's comment, even though he only posted it yesterday. Apparently Google now considers you an important site!)

Josh Whedon seems to have a fondness for obscure weapons. Like the Hunga Munga that Buffy wields in the first ep of season 3. Though it is said that he used it just so he go around yelling "Hunga Munga! Hunga Munga!"

JOSH, WHERE'S MY CHECK???!!!

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Monday, September 23, 2002 10:48 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Zicsoft:
For that matter, what the hell is a Wildly Gas-Operated Pistol? Can't find it on the net.

I finally found a reference, and it's Wildey. Hey, it hasn't been made in 20+ years, gimme a break!

Jeff
Who flunked spelling in the second grade. What's your excuse?

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Tuesday, September 24, 2002 4:58 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by TinyTimm:

I finally found a reference, and it's Wildey. Hey, it hasn't been made in 20+ years, gimme a break!

You mean this one?

Maybe the particular model is out of production, but the basic design is still around:

http://www.wildeyguns.com/

Their most interesting product is a "pin gun", apparently designed for shooting bowling pins. I was unaware that bowling pin attacks were that common!

Quote:

Who flunked spelling in the second grade. What's your excuse?

Brain stem issues, mostly...

JOSH, WHERE'S MY CHECK???!!!

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Tuesday, September 24, 2002 10:23 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Zicsoft:

http://www.wildeyguns.com/
Their most interesting product is a "pin gun", apparently designed for shooting bowling pins. I was unaware that bowling pin attacks were that common!

I didn't know they were still around! They haven't been listed in the usual sources.

Bowling Pin shooting is one of the major fun sports. In the good old days (before I got married) I seldom missed a match. Five bowling pins set about 18" apart 18" from the front edge of a 4' x 8' table. Goal: Remove all pins from table with appropriate weapons from 21 feet away.

Ideally you will need one shot for each pin. In the real world, you REMEMBER when you were that lucky.

I once demo'd Bowling Pin shooting to a dozen or so local police & deputies. I showed set up, rules and then went 5 for 5. I convieniently forgot about the four loaded magazines in my backup carrier, the two in my ready pouches and the 200 rounds of reloads in my ammo box. I told them to have fun, as I was out of ammo.

Some people claim it's excellent practice as most Serious Social Engagements happen at 7 yards or less, and the stress of having to clear the table 5 times in order for low 3 to count for score, with a couple of hundred bucks in prizes down to tenth place available and the screaming crowd in the background adds stress to the exercise.

Jeff
Who notes with annoyance, the official rules have eliminated his 20 Gauge shotgun. http://www.diamondcs.net/~pinshoot/

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Wednesday, September 25, 2002 6:47 AM

KALIMAC

'The Train Job' was solid, if not astounding. Much better on review, when Joss' humor can be appreciated more.

Did no one else find it interesting that the characters use the 'colorful adjective' "rutting", much as it was used in Joss' future world of 'Fray'?

So looking forward to Friday!

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Wednesday, September 25, 2002 10:58 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kalimac:

Did no one else find it interesting that the characters use the 'colorful adjective' "rutting", much as it was used in Joss' future world of 'Fray'?

JW loves to play with language. Which I consider the mark of a good writer, but which seems to be less than popular with the network. In the first pilot, the big adjective was "humping", which somebody must have found too graphic. And there was also a stab at a future English dialect that also seems to have been shot down, replaced by the gimmick of everybody lapsing into Chinese at odd moments.

JOSH, WHERE'S MY CHECK???!!!

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Monday, October 7, 2002 9:23 AM

LOONYTOON

Is the theme song made for the show, or a song? I love it!

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Monday, October 7, 2002 10:02 AM

KALIMAC

It was written for the series.

The writer was some guy name of Whedon. Don't know his first name.

Keep Flying

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Monday, September 18, 2017 7:38 PM

15 Years ago this Wednesday, some random dude started this thread.

I'll try to keep my Wednesdays open to watch these episodes in duplicate order, for a few months.

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Monday, September 18, 2017 7:39 PM

15 Years ago this Wednesday, some random dude started this thread.

I'll try to keep my Wednesdays open to watch these episodes in duplicate order, for a few months.

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Monday, September 18, 2017 9:47 PM

MOOSE

Quote:
Originally posted by Kalimac:
It was written for the series.

The writer was some guy name of Whedon. Don't know his first name.

Keep Flying

IIRC, it was Josh Whedon or something like that.

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Tuesday, September 19, 2017 6:45 PM

THGRRI

Quote:
Originally posted by Moose:
Quote:
Originally posted by Kalimac:
It was written for the series.

The writer was some guy name of Whedon. Don't know his first name.

Keep Flying

IIRC, it was Josh Whedon or something like that.

Are you sure???

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Tuesday, September 19, 2017 7:07 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by THGRRI:
Quote:
Originally posted by Moose:
Quote:
Originally posted by Kalimac:
It was written for the series.

The writer was some guy name of Whedon. Don't know his first name.

Keep Flying
IIRC, it was Josh Whedon or something like that.
Are you sure???

We'll be able to check the credits when we watch tomorrow night.

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Wednesday, September 20, 2017 8:06 PM

THGRRI

Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:
Originally posted by THGRRI:
Quote:
Originally posted by Moose:
Quote:
Originally posted by Kalimac:
It was written for the series.

The writer was some guy name of Whedon. Don't know his first name.

Keep Flying
IIRC, it was Josh Whedon or something like that.
Are you sure???
We'll be able to check the credits when we watch tomorrow night.

I'll be sure to do that. Whoever he was, this was a good one.

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Thursday, September 21, 2017 4:38 PM

Now it holds up well. 15 years ago it must have been Light Years ahead State of The Art. Emmy Awards agreed, at least with Pilot Serenity. If Serenity did not bump the rest, most any of these FF eps could have won just as easily.

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Sunday, October 1, 2017 10:15 PM

I know that for many, Mal's final action with Crow was a shock or surprise, but it did not have the same effect on me.

My first viewing of the episodes was during a SyFy marathon, and I caught the end of Ariel. Mal wrenching Jayne was likely what hooked me to want to watch more of the show. But it also diluted the Crow scene in TTJ.

Also, after watching it on 20 Sep, I wondered how Mal abused his precious engine, which I assume is a multistage turbine fan jet, and does not respond well to FODding. Don't know why I hadn't thought of that before.

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Monday, October 2, 2017 8:07 PM

MOOSE

I'm guessing that 500 years from now, turbines that also get exposed to the vacuum of space will be quite durable.
A couple hundred pounds of meat and bone probably didn't even faze it.

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Sunday, April 15, 2018 4:39 PM