Inara's true age by PirateCat

FIREFLY EPISODE DISCUSSIONS

Inara's true age

POSTED BY: PIRATECAT
UPDATED: Monday, January 1, 2007 11:41
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VIEWED: 15012
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Wednesday, December 27, 2006 8:23 AM

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Originally posted by AgentRouka:
Mal: I might not show respect to your job, but he didn't
respect you.

That's one of the most complex quotes in the show.

Anything's complicated if you make it so.

Quote Fight Club ~ "You are not your job. You are not how much money you have in the bank."

Book showed how clearly someone could seperate themselves from a role they didnt believe in.

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In other words, what about Inara does he respect if he can so easily discount the things she holds in very high regard?

his respect MIGHT be an issue if Inara truly held those things in high regard, which she doesnt. she sees the hypocrisies and the corrupted nature of things and doubts her profession and herself, and Mal does her a favor by throwing all the blame on the current state of the profession, and urging her to be honest with herself.

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Is it because she's somehow "misguided" like a feeble child?

In matters of PERSONAL relationships (not professional), she IS a feeble child, and shows the need to be mothered whenever it comes up. (deleted movie scene and heart of gold come to mind)

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However, even with her powers of intuition and understanding, Inara still sees the behavior that Mal displays, the contempt and ridicule, and just what sort of weak woman would completely discount that kind of treatment, even knowing what triggers it?

you both acknowledge she has powers of intuition and understanding, and then discount them as being useless at discerning Mal's true intent when he says things ? although, yes... i do believe she becomes emotionally charged in some of their "chats" and blinded by the moment... but she isnt as dumb as you would portray her, and realizes after the moment has passed what Mal really feels and intends...

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even when Inara reacts with as much vehemence as she does during their sword practice in 'Shindig' says that this isn't always goodnatured.

so ? just because they arent always the "starcrossed lovers" always dreaming and wanting each other doesnt mean they care about each other any less... people are complicated, and sometimes when they want to tease they go a little too far... and sometimes a rush of emotion from elsewhere can be burned on someone it wasnt intended for... and i think this occasional lack of emotional control is part of what bothers Inara about her job... that she isnt the complete uncaring Ice Queen that can 'love'm and leave'm' as her profession demands.

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Nandi, being a whore and not a Companion, (a distinction Mal loves to derride) is in a different category.

Do you really think Mal defines and judges people by a simple choice of semantics ? Nandi is honest with herself, Inara isnt... thats the only difference that Mal sees.

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There are no class issues, no complex feelings between her and Mal.

if the feelings involved werent complicated, why'd Inara end up running off and crying ? why'd Mal have such a slow and fearful approach to Nandi ?

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If anyone doesnt respect Inara's job, its Inara herself.

I'm confused. What do you base this on?

She's using her profession to "hide in a monastery away from all attachments".

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Testing? What testing does she put him through?

How many episodes are there when she DOESNT put Mal on the spot about some morality or such... or push him a little harder then she does anyone else in the crew... in fact... how many times does she push ANYONE else on the crew about a choice they make ? she knows of the mixed relationship between Kaylee and Simon, but doesnt seem to pressure her at all... but when it comes to Mal's relationships (good or bad) she pressures every decision and detail.

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Not to mention, her mates are chosen with deliberation ("a compatibility of spirit") and professionally. Clients is the term. Her emotions there are of secondary importance, and this gives about zero insight into her private sexual habits, aside from the fact that she doesn't appear to indulge privately at all while on Serenity, nbotwithstanding the uncertainty about Guild Rules regarding that subject.

Well, you did say you thought she just invented the guild rules bit and all... but you also seem to acknowledge the fact that she is using her profession to relegate her own desires... which shows a complete lack of respect for herself.

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Half or more marriages these days end in divorce and I bet that most of those people were very sure of their compatibility.

Oh, sorry, I wasnt aware that Firefly was set in the present day, or that Companion training was comparable to the intuitive abilities of Jane Smith the town gossip.

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She obviously has strong feelings of attraction for him but I don't see any motivation or evidence of her long-term plans or any testing.

if that was all there was to it, she would have bedded him and be done with it. she isnt Zoe and she doesnt have the marriage constaints that force him to be "the one that got away".

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Do you have an instance where Inara makes an actual overture to Mal? I have zero.

After Saffron kisses him.

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I don't see where you're coming from with this at all.

that is quite apparent, and i cant help you there

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Asking her not to stay with Atherton in Shindig is a big one. In Mal/Inara speak that's almost a declaration. And Inara? Walks away.

ummm... no.... she held him and tended his wounds... which is why ATHERTON got all snitty at her... not Mal. hum... even you pointed out that overture that she looked after and cared for him when he was down. (as she did the night before, by offering to help him escape, then show him the basics of swordplay)

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In that scene she doesn't. She says Atherton's going to get up early and walks away. Leaving Mal alone.

Umm.. considering that Atherton had just stabbed him with a sword, I'm thinking he was pretty much awake by then.

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She would have asked for Kaylee, too. Not wanting Mal to die is not as much of a stretch as making a private and fairly unmistakable admission.

The only way it would be a stretch is if you are going to prove to me that she doesnt love and care for Kaylee. She obviously does, though not in any way you are likely to understand.

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If Mal had nothing to be shy about, he'd look her square in the eye and speak with a solid voice. He dies neither, He's drudging, looking down, fidgeting, nor does he warn her about Atherton.

He says something to the effect of "I dont like him". he gives her his judgement on him, thats a warning.

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If he was being selfless, he wouldn't be acting that way.

Maybe you wouldnt, but you are not Mal.

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I agree absolutely. But Inara did say it. If she was all that interested in a relationship with Mal, and testing him and his committment/interest... why would she reject this pretty obvious overture in such a harsh way?

She explains why... "to keep things professional".

In her professional relationships, she understands each person's role perfectly, knows how to reply to every question, and has complete and total control. (like when the kicked the mudder prince's dad out of the room)

She doesnt have that sort of control in her personal relationships, and its something she's wary/afraid of.

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He's not in love with Nandi, either.

What's love got to do with it ?

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I really don't see that parallel as valid.

REALLY ?

You're the one that has said that by calling companions whores he is insulting her. Not once, but several times, you have stated that.

You're saying that the encounter he has with an actual whore, and the way in which he treats her with all due respect and reluctantly employs her has no bearing ?

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And what do you suppose that problem of Inara's is? Because, I don't see it.

then you are willfully blind, because you have certainly posted enough about her problems in this thread alone.

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I can easily imagine Inara having both her career and her relationship with Mal, but I can't imagine Mal being okay with that, so... which one of the two is the one with the problem?

Both have problems. I thought that much was obvious ?

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Not necessarily. Could be she just wanted a sabbatical to regain her equilibrium after she left the ship with all those people she loves.

but you've just spent about 50 posts explaining exactly WHY she doesnt love any of those people...

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It doesn't really imply an attitude about her entire career choice.

it most certainly does imply an attitude about her career choice if she chooses not to practice her career.

if simon chose not to practice medicine, would you claim that had no bearing on his being a doctor ?

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I don't think Inara would have talked to Kaylee about her feelings for Mal when she was so ambivalent about them in the first place.

What you think isnt particularly relevant to what is.

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The Guild is centuries old, which could be a ...

and it could be older then apples and oranges... which dont mean nothing about nothing. the fact is that the guild and the law are both established institutions without any significant rival (at least none given in canon). Rigidity is a byproduct of an institution that ages without innovation or competition.

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I think it's a mistake to equate Guild and Alliance. Both a separate structures with very different purposes. Anything connecting them beyond their Core-centrism is pure assumption.

False.

Alliance is made of people.

Guild is made of people.

People are good and bad.

Some people in alliance are bad.

Some people in Guild are bad.

Therefor, there will ALWAYS be the potential for the guild to be evil and oppressive. I'm not saying that it is BECAUSE they are the alliance's whores that I attribute this to them, but that they are human.

That being said, it is extremely unlikely for morality to exist in a vacuum, and even you dont seem to have argued yet about the apparent immorality of the corporate state in this series. It is far likelier for any organization that dwells within the state to be corrupt to an equal extent then it is for it to be at one extreme or the other.

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Wednesday, December 27, 2006 1:52 PM

AGENTROUKA

Bagheera,

I'm quitting this discussion because

a) you obviously don't spend any time actually reading and understanding my posts

b) have aparrently not seen episodes and scenes you discuss in a while (Shindig, the timeline is not as you remember it)

c) prescribe me both words and intentions I do not have. Neither do I say that Inara doesn't love anyone on the ship, nor do I have any illusions of being Mal. (Hello?!) My arguments are based on watching the show. Try it.

So unless you take the time to watch 'Shindig' and change some of your comments about it, and take back some of those rude "though I suppose you can't understand that" lines, this talk is over.

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Wednesday, December 27, 2006 3:52 PM

BAGHEERA

Quote:
Originally posted by AgentRouka:
a) you obviously don't spend any time actually reading and understanding my posts

lol... now you're saying you're too good for me cuz i cant read and understand ? i read your posts well enough to point out that you were contradicting your earlier statements just to be argumentative.

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b) have aparrently not seen episodes and scenes you discuss in a while (Shindig, the timeline is not as you remember it)

oh, now you're saying I havent even watched firefly and that Atherton DOESNT stab mal before Inara begs him not to kill Mal ?

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c) prescribe me both words and intentions I do not have.

much as you assign ignorance and stupidity of me ?

if you cant take it, dont dish it.

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Neither do I say that Inara doesn't love anyone on the ship,

A) you've repeatedly argued against the fact that Mal & Inara's relationship was based on love... put simply, you say "Mal doesnt love Inara"
B) you then said that Inara would have treated kaylee the same way...

A => B = Inara doesnt love Kaylee is the position you assert. if this doesnt make sense to you, review the contradiction in the position you take.

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nor do I have any illusions of being Mal.

no, your illusions are obviously much grander, as they dictate what people you have never even met have or havent watched, and can or cant do.

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(Hello?!) My arguments are based on watching the show. Try it.

I have, but I supplement that with being human and having loved. Try it.

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So unless you take the time to watch 'Shindig' and change some of your comments about it, and take back some of those rude "though I suppose you can't understand that" lines, this talk is over.

Oh, you again dish it, but cry when the chickens come home ?

Turnabout is fairplay, if you cant take it, go cry in a corner or something.

In fact... you repeatedly insult me for "not knowing anything about Firefly", but cant seem to supplement that with hard facts, except for being so anal you have to go look up the exact wording of every line, instead of accepting the spirit behind it.

If you're looking for an apology, try a dictionary... cuz I aint about to concern myself with the feelings of a fanboy that acts high and mighty about memorizing each and every line, but when it becomes clear that that is ALL he knows, and that his "realworld" experience of love, hate, and the conflicted forest of emotions that lie between them is limited to watching reruns of angel and buffy... he returns with "I KNOW MORE THEN YOU... YOU SUXXORS !!!!!111"

Put the hair away, and get walking.

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Wednesday, December 27, 2006 9:24 PM

AGENTROUKA

Bagheera,

1) The fact that I'm a boy is your idea. You know nothing about me and just assume. That is sad.

2) Before this last post, I never called you stupid, nor implied that you knew nothing about the show. In fact, I enjoyed the discussion before you started turning personal, insulting and illogical. Complaining about you behaving like a big child is not "dishing it out and being unable to take it". It's being unwilling to accept idiotic behavior.

3) I have good memory for trivia and spent, oh, say, 20 minutes out of my day yesterday talking to you about a tv show I know well enough to quote. And yes, I have online sources that I can use to back up my memory. It takes 20 seconds. How this turns me into someone without a real life, unable to feel human emotion for the remaining 23 hours and 40 minutes of my day, well.. I'll just consider this a sign of your immaturity.

4) You never caught me in a contradiction and I accuse you of not reading my posts with attention enough to understand them because consistently you have ignored my very logical points about "Shindig" and ascribed them to a completely different scene than the one I referenced. Because. You. Don't. Know. The. Material.

5) When two people spend time discussing the intricacies of fictional characters, they are by default somewhat geeky. Even "uncool". That's you and me both. You can't call me a loser about it just because you can't hold up your end of the argument.

6) "The spirit behind the words" is what we're debating here right now by using the words as a source. It's called interpretation, and usually it's done by finding evidence within the text. Just stating "It's like that!" when someone disagrees with you, as you have done exceedingly in your last two posts, without backing it up with evidence.. well, that's a bit pointless.

And since you're a sad and rude person unable to meet conflict with some maturity, this conversation is over. I hope you get better.

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Monday, January 1, 2007 11:41 AM

BAGHEERA

Quote:
Originally posted by AgentRouka:
Bagheera,

1) The fact that I'm a boy is your idea. You know nothing about me and just assume. That is sad.

If you would like to continue this conversation in another language that allows for gender-neutral pronouns, be my guest... but dont act all snitty because I deferred to the standard of using the male pronoun when gender is not given. Even if you choose to assert that you're a 17 year old cheerleader, or whatever bunk... this is the internet... and all that it entails.

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2) Before this last post, I never called you stupid, nor implied that you knew nothing about the show.

you most certainly did insult me.

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3) I have good memory for trivia and spent, oh, say, 20 minutes out of my day yesterday talking to you about a tv show I know well enough to quote.

and yet.. you know enough to quote the episode word for word, but overlook MAL GETTING STABBED IN THE DUEL, and call me an ignorant liar for asserting that ?

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How this turns me into someone without a real life, unable to feel human emotion for the remaining 23 hours and 40 minutes of my day, well.. I'll just consider this a sign of your immaturity.

uhum. you're the first person to state that you dont feel emotions and have no real life. i'm not surprised by it, though, as you have shown no grasp of the relationships in Firefly... as cliched as they are.

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4) You never caught me in a contradiction

*snickers*

how about "I've never insulted you before this post"

and "you're an ignorant child that hasnt even watched Firefly so just shut up and leave me to my kingdom of dust" ?

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my very logical points about "Shindig" and ascribed them to a completely different scene than the one I referenced. Because. You. Don't. Know. The. Material.

LMFAO. You must be talking about a completely different show here... because you openly accuse me of not knowing the show, and lying... because I asserted that MAL WAS STABBED IN THE EPISODE YOU CLAIM I HAVENT WATCHED.

He was stabbed.

Look it up in your encyclopedia.

Watch the episode.

Just drop the holier then thou act and admit that you failed.

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5) When two people spend time discussing the intricacies of fictional characters, they are by default somewhat geeky. Even "uncool". That's you and me both. You can't call me a loser about it just because you can't hold up your end of the argument.

if you wish to claim you're a geeky loser, thats your prerogative. but using that to somehow assert that my logic is faulty... is in itself faulty logic.

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6) "The spirit behind the words" is what we're debating here right now by using the words as a source.

the problem though, is that the voices in your head refuse to acknowledge that certain things EVEN HAPPENED... such as Mal getting stabbed and Inara running to his rescue.

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It's called interpretation, and usually it's done by finding evidence within the text.

By choosing to ignore the actual scenes, what you are doing is fabricating, not interpreting.

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And since you're a sad and rude person unable to meet conflict with some maturity,

conflict ? all i've seen in this thread is a game of checkers with a 2 year old that doesnt know how to play, and when i try to show him how, he knocks the pieces off the board and screams "I WIN I WIN I WIN YOU LOSE YOU LOSE YOU LOSE !!!!"

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this conversation is over. I hope you get better.

funny.. you said you were done with the thread the last post too... but i guess this kinda shows how wishywashy you are in your beliefs and assertions, if you cant even get "THIS IS MY LAST POST LOSER !!!" right, eh ?

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