New thoughts on Jaynetown by ability6

FIREFLY EPISODE DISCUSSIONS

New thoughts on Jaynetown

POSTED BY: ABILITY6
UPDATED: Sunday, February 25, 2007 18:31
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Monday, February 12, 2007 7:52 PM

It still amazes me how every time I watch these shows, something new will hit me that I never noticed before...this time the connection between Jayne's struggle to understand the mudders need to believe he's their hero and Shepherd Book's attempts to explain Bible meaning to River. It really blows me away how talented Joss and co. repeatedly show themselves to be.

"Yolanda?"

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Monday, February 12, 2007 10:21 PM

PHOENIXROSE

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.

I started a thread about this quite awhile back called "Jaynestown and the nature of faith". The whole episode is about faith, near as I can figure. Except maybe the Simon/Kaylee stuff.
wonder what ever happend to that thread...?

Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so.

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Tuesday, February 13, 2007 9:59 AM

SHINYED

Jaynestown is certainly an emotionally complicated episode & one of the best. I think Jayne learns a very valuable lesson, but unfortunately we never see it.

At the end ...he's sulking and despondant over the death of the young mudder and he cannot understand why the kid sacrificed himself for Jayne. He failed to understand the emotional dynamics that he helped create by drinking & toasting with all the mudders....especially when the young man says..." I can't believe you're back!"...then Jayne says..." How could I stay away." I think that Jayne realized later on that a "hero" 'aint nothin' but a sandwich....and that despite our desires for or against fame, the fact is that other people are influenced by your actions; whaever you do or say....so choose your words & actions carefully...A great life lesson!

By the way....what's a Prod? ( the foreman's men ) but why " Prod"?

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Tuesday, February 13, 2007 11:17 AM

REDLAVA

Probably a reference to "cattle prod". Help steer the workers in the right direction and get an honest days work out of them.

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Tuesday, February 13, 2007 7:15 PM

PIRATECAT

What a great show. I just love that episode.

"Battle of Serenity, Mal. Besides Zoe here, how many-" "I'm talkin at you! How many men in your platoon came out of their alive".

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Tuesday, February 13, 2007 9:10 PM

FASTMOVER

I was just thinking about this myself after watching the show again the other day. It only then occurred to me that the folk hero of Jayne is actually much like faith in the Bible or God. In the end it doesn't matter if it isn't really true, just as long as a person has something to believe in, strive for, and better themselves by.

I am evil, I am sly, and if you get eaten no one will cry.

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Sunday, February 25, 2007 2:30 AM

BAGHEERA

Quote:
Originally posted by PhoenixRose:
I started a thread about this quite awhile back called "Jaynestown and the nature of faith". The whole episode is about faith, near as I can figure.

Near as I can figure, the whole damn show is about faith. Not SOLELY about faith, certainly, but a person's faith (or lack of) in themselves, others, god, their abilities plays a heavy role in... damn near everything.

While Book may have been one of the most underused characters in the series, his mere presence illuminates the demand for faith on the ship. (I especially like his name... not only as an allusion to the bible, but as a collection of pages that are more then the sum of its parts, and also as a "dont judge a book by its cover"... so many meanings)

River's main flaw (besides her being nutty as a roasted chestnut) is that she extends her faith almost without limits, while Jayne is the exact opposite... though not to the extreme solipsism that Early or Saffron are.

I honestly just realized, though, that Mal's main issues with the Companion guild and the Alliance in general, is that its followers are expected, assumed, and demanded to give their faith completely and without question. (point in case, the operative, simon's father... and well.. pretty much any alliance agent/officer/doctor encountered in the show)

Mal finds comfort in the woods because he was blinded by his righteousness in the war, and believed that his staunch faith in that they were in the right was enough to guarantee their victory . he's no longer so blinded by the light... but neither is he completely disillusioned to abandon all hope... he still holds faith in himself and those around him... at arms length.

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Sunday, February 25, 2007 12:10 PM

SAB39

Quote:
Originally posted by Bagheera:
Quote:
Originally posted by PhoenixRose:
I started a thread about this quite awhile back called "Jaynestown and the nature of faith". The whole episode is about faith, near as I can figure.

Near as I can figure, the whole damn show is about faith.

I'd agree that the whole show is about faith. I'd say that Jaynestown, specifically, is all about symbols and how they mean different things to different people. Consider:

- The Bible as a symbol to Book versus to River

- The statue as a symbol to the mudders

- Jayne himself as a symbol to the mudders and how his own opinion of that changes over the course of the episode

- Losing ones virginity as a symbol for becoming a man (Inara calls this one out directly) and the fact that it means different things to Fess and to his father

- Book's hair as a symbol

- Simons being "appropriate" as a symbol of his respect for Kaylee, and how Kaylee misinterprets it

I have a feeling I missed one or two, too. But I definitely consider Jaynestown to be all about symbols...

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Sunday, February 25, 2007 12:43 PM

WINDIE

These discussions just get me annoyed. Not because they are anthing but interesting just that due the short sightedness of a few individuals I will struggle to find out what really happens to the crew and the whole message that Joss and his team were trying to get across.

I have lost count of the times I have watched the shows, my lovely lady would be able to answer I am sure.

Its as many people have said the little things in the back ground and on many occasions the foreground that make it extra special.

The scene when they are all sat down having a meal and River takes Jayne's bread as he pass's on the basket is one of my particular favourites. I had watched that scene maybe a dozen times before I even noticed it.

Well enough of my grumbling, I do not have a favourite episode they are all special in there own way.

Why have they taken the sky from ME

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Sunday, February 25, 2007 2:08 PM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT

Quote:
Originally posted by Fastmover:
I was just thinking about this myself after watching the show again the other day. It only then occurred to me that the folk hero of Jayne is actually much like faith in the Bible or God. In the end it doesn't matter if it isn't really true, just as long as a person has something to believe in, strive for, and better themselves by.

I am evil, I am sly, and if you get eaten no one will cry.

In one of my fanfics, I made a mention of folks being present at " the second coming of Jayne. "
It was, in part, a dig, in part a joke, but literally truth.

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Sunday, February 25, 2007 6:31 PM

BAGHEERA

Quote:
Originally posted by sab39:

- Losing ones virginity as a symbol for becoming a man (Inara calls this one out directly) and the fact that it means different things to Fess and to his father

This was mentioned elsewhere, that Inara seemed to have a taste for cherries... which in light of the faith discussion is interesting.

Losing one's virginity (at least the reluctant virgins) requires them to take a leap of faith, and place their trust and happiness in Inara, etc...etc...

When conversely, Inara is unable or unwilling to take that leap of faith with Mal, and place her trust in him. (the feeling is reciprocated, of course, but they behave like two virgins in a motel room on prom night around each other).

Quote:
Originally posted by windie:
I will struggle to find out what really happens to the crew and the whole message that Joss and his team were trying to get across.

not to be negative, but ya gotta recognize that there probably wasnt any "greater message" designed at the time the show was cancelled. certainly there were images that meant things, and some of those formed connections with each other that the viewers could read into and interprete with their own life experiences... but these hadnt reached the point where the pages were bound together into a coherent book. (and in fact, the series may have suffered for it, had it ran long enough to not be able to include so many "what if's" and "might have meant's" and instead was rigidly defined as "when they did this, they meant this..."

case in point... in the series the extent of River's abilities (and whether she's actually psychic, etc..) is left largely unanswered, with growing foreshadowing.

The movie came right out and said it, as well as dispelling the possibility that Simon didnt know about it, etc... and while it kinda gives some finality to things, it also crushed the possibility that "River was just a poor, average girl who endured unspeakable things, and slipped a little bit off her orbit".

Sometimes, questions are best left unanswered.

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