Mal and the Tams by Mal42

FIREFLY EPISODE DISCUSSIONS

Mal and the Tams

POSTED BY: MAL42
UPDATED: Thursday, April 19, 2007 13:29
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Thursday, April 19, 2007 5:06 AM

I was just watching OiS and the scene between Mal and River outside the ship got me wondering, does Mal actually care for River?

The dialouge between the two in that scene had me thinking that yes, in some way he does care about her. Even in the movie, something as small as Mal calling River "little one" had me thinking he cares for her.

But then I thought, does he just like the fact that having River is a thorn in the Alliances' side? Or that having a reader and a doc on board helps out a lot?

Just wanted to hear other Browncoats' opinions.

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Thursday, April 19, 2007 5:54 AM

MAL4PREZ

I have no doubt that he cares for her! He may not intend to, and he may try to keep it hidden, but he certainly feels a need to protect her. Right from the pilot episode he does.

That's part of the beauty of it all, that River's situation gets through to the "nice man" inside Mal (which Kaylee could always see) and eventually this gets him back into the fight with the Alliance. He could have left River in the Maidenhead and avoided the whole mess, but he didn't. Why not? Because he cares for her.

I do shudder a bit at this question though, because there's been a rash of Mal and River romance fics posted lately, and that I cannot stomach. Just can't. Mal getting lusty with young, naive, broken River ruins the whole feel of the Firefly `verse for me. And I totally see this thread going that way as so many others have!

Oops, and it's my fault for bringing it up.

But it was inevitable, right?

EDIT: oops again - got sidetracked with the rant and forgot to say - I don't think the "thorn in the Alliance's side" had anything to do with it. I think Mal wants to avoid the Alliance (little U-day brawls aside

) and allowing fugitives to stay on his ship is something he does against his own judgement.

-----------------------------------------------
I'm the president. I don't need to listen.

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Thursday, April 19, 2007 7:26 AM

PLATONIST

A big part of Mal's character is protecting the innocent. His sense of honor and chivalry is probably the last of his morality that he carries with him from the horrible outcome of a lost war.
To me, in the story context, River is more of a symbol of Mal's fight for justice when governments meddle. Her experience with the Alliance parallels Mal's experience. He identifies with her in a sad and pitiful way. His loss is as apparent as hers. He does care for her, as we all do and want him to.

As far as any romantic love between the two. I
don't see it for all the reasons stated above. It is way to obvious and forced to ever feel like Firefly to me when they're paired up. I
usually lose interest by the middle of chapter one.

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Thursday, April 19, 2007 8:25 AM

NBZ

He cares for all his crew. Even Jayne. Wether he shows it or not is a different matter. He is the captain first. (You see this in Out of gas during the meal - he is relaxed, but still playing captain.)

I do not see it a part of Mal's character to protect the innocent. he will help out if he feels bad enough about their plight. He will sell to them things they need at a profit to him. (in War Stories this was a bone of contention between Inara and Mal - she did not think much of him selling to the poor.) He is not on a crusade to liberate anyone or protect the innocent. he did not start a war in Jaynestown to protect the downtrodden.

He just wants to go his own way. live life without others meddling in it.

Taking River in was (slightly) out of character. He took on a risk. (IMO, Dobson was to be shot either way) He made River his problem. Why? dunno. can't explain everything.

In the Pilot you can see where he makes his choice. Just before Kaylee wakes up, he is watching River, thinking. (First chance he really gets since Kaylee got shot.) That is when he decides, and Kaylee more or less makes sure.

The two are platonic kindred spirits. I like their interaction.

/and there goes another rambling post without any real point. My specialty.

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Thursday, April 19, 2007 9:05 AM

SISTER

The beauty of Firefly to me was the interaction between the disparate group aboard. They became a family. Of course Mal cared for River (and Simon, too). I believe the Mal/River connection was, for me, along the lines of an older, wiser brother/uncle; much more in tune, and aware of the ways of the worlds on the rim than Simon.
As a man who lost everything dear to him in the war, there was still that large part of Mal that cared and loved. He 'created' the family aboard Firefly to fill that void. At least that's my take on it. But as far as 'caring' in the way a lover does..nope, don't see it.

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Thursday, April 19, 2007 10:31 AM

PLATONIST

Consider the following:

Mal is furious when he first finds River in the cryo box. He jumps to conclusions and accuses Simon of exploiting a young girl. River is portrayed in a fetal position (innocence?) He reacts the same way when Saffron comes aboard. She is a young woman “who knows nothing of the world and needs our protection.” His words not mine.
His unrelenting protection of Inara, even protecting that ridiculous job she calls a career. It is almost in every episode so I won’t cite.

Mal's self imposed honor (protecting his crew, including River) and whether or not he chooses to "act upon" such honor are two opposing entities, as we often see in the series. I see his character as more or less in a constant state of turmoil. He faces moral dilemmas...it's a character paradox that is best described by Book in the BDM as "Mal's way."

I also see Mal’s and River’s relationship as platonic. They are kindred spirits as you say. And I love that Mal makes her crew at the end of the movie.

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Thursday, April 19, 2007 12:04 PM

MAL42

Wow, amazing replies guys, and all points I agree with. I defenitely agree about the relationship Mal and River both share, it does almost feel like Mal is the uncle type figure to River.

A relationship between Mal and River?

I don't like that thought at all, way to creepy if you ask me!

I think I might have to watch the series again, so soon after watching it already, just to see me fantastic Mal and River interaction.

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Thursday, April 19, 2007 12:31 PM

NBZ

Quote:
I think I might have to watch the series again, so soon after watching it already, just to see me fantastic Mal and River interaction.

There aint much.

Some in Train Job (Mal. Bad. In the latin.)

Some more in Safe.

And then quite a bit more in OiS.

I especially like:

MAL: There was a guy, he was very blurry. You gotta be careful.... how come there's a guy on board and how come you're all of a sudden the ship?
RIVER (V.O.): I know you have questions...
MAL: Yeah, that would be why I just asked them --
RIVER (V.O.): But there isn't a lot of time. Captain, I need you to trust me.
MAL: Am I dreaming?
RIVER (V.O.): We all are.
(The captain rolls his eyes.)
RIVER (cont'd; V.O.): Don't make faces.

Just every single line is spot on. The description of Jubal (he was very blurry) makes me laugh everytime. It was something I missed at first.

Apart from that, unless I am missing some scene in another episode they could more or less be on different shows (well not really). Simon is the go between. He takes care of river. he has the deal with Mal.

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Thursday, April 19, 2007 1:29 PM

ORANGEHAT

I disagree with him taking in River as being out of character as the series goes it seems to be very in character, as others have stated

That nerdy hat

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