What I'm expecting from Firefly by Ringwraith

FIREFLY EPISODE DISCUSSIONS

What I'm expecting from Firefly

POSTED BY: RINGWRAITH
UPDATED: Monday, October 7, 2002 08:47
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 6748
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Tuesday, September 17, 2002 2:27 PM

To be quite honest I haven't read a whole lot about the show in regards to reviews of episodes and such. I'm trying to be as spoiler-free as possible (as is my wife) but as the day draws near it's hard to not want to read anything. Still, I think I'm doing a pretty good job.

So what am I expecting from Firefly?

I'm expecting great writing. This is a given, I think. It's a Whedon series and once again he's surrounded himself with great scribes. I've come to expect the unexpected from him and his crew and I think that it won't be any different this time around. I mean, this show won't be having aliens (thank God!) or ray-guns (thank God again!) so right off the bat you're knocking most sci-fi conventions on their head.

I'm expecting a story-arc. Okay, that actually is in the "writing" category but I am expecting some sort of arc, if not this season then in the next--providing there is one. If there is an arc this year I won't expect it to be big but perhaps an underlying arc, like season 1 Babylon 5, Millennium or Buffy. Heck, even Angel's first season had one.

I'm expecting strong performances from the actors. His shows have good acting (and stand-outs like James Marsters--sp?) and I hope this one is no different.

I'm expecting a cinematic look to the show along the lines of Angel. Not widescreen, though that would be nice, I mean the overall look and feel. I don't want it to look like Star Trek (though I like Trek). A Farscape kinda look would be nice.

I'm also expecting people to say, "Well, this show is OKAY but it's a rip-off of fill-in-the-blank." Star Trek, Andromeda, Babylon 5, Farscape, Doctor Who, Battlestar Gallactica, Lost in Space, Manimal. It's a TV show, just relax. If you don't like it, don't watch it.

What I'm not expecting but looking forward to...

The fact that there will be no sound in the space scenes! Everyone loves the roar of the Millennium Falcon, Enterprise hitting warp speed or the sound of a jump gate opening in Babylon 5 but having no sound at all...that is so 2001: A Space Odyssey--in a good way. Some sci-fi purists won't like it but at least it's being realistic.

I'm looking forward to the whole "western" look. Six-shooters, the clothes (gotta love those gun belts--will someone have a bandolier?) and horses. I know some will hate this concept but I for one think this, more than anything, will make Firefly stand out amongst the other sci-fi shows. It's so out-there that it will work. Besides, what's a better sound than someone cocking a pistol?

I'm looking forward to the cool visual effects I've heard so much about and have only seen fleetingly on commercials.

More than anything, I'm looking forward to discussing this show with all of you this season and hopefully future seasons. Haken has started a great community here. My hat is off to him.

Sorry, it's not a cowboy hat.

************************************************
"How will this end?"
"In fire."
--Babylon 5, 'The Coming of Shadows'
************************************************

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Tuesday, September 17, 2002 3:26 PM

ZICSOFT

Quote:
I'm expecting great writing. This is a given, I think.

What do you mean, "I think"?!

Quote:
I'm expecting strong performances from the actors.

Well, they all look promising. But keep on eye on Ron Glass, the elder of the ensemble. Whedon's better stories are always about moral conflict and ambiguity, and his character would seem to be getting more than his share. Plus Glass has the screen presence of a small orchestra!

Quote:
I'm expecting a cinematic look to the show along the lines of Angel. Not widescreen, though that would be nice, I mean the overall look and feel. I don't want it to look like Star Trek (though I like Trek). A Farscape kinda look would be nice.

No danger of it looking like Star Trek. I've seen the pilot, and I won't even try to describe how un-Federation this story is. Like Farscape, it doesn't avoid unpleasant details --though unlike Farscape, it doesn't wallow in them either.

I've heard Firefly compared to the Alien movies, and the Mad Max movies, and of course to those western and civil war stories it officially emulates. And Firefly does resemble all of these. But you'd never confuse it with any of them. It has a look all its own.

Which I won't attempt to describe. I'm not just avoiding spoilers -- I don't think I have the words! Well, I have one word: it's very, very, real.

Quote:
I'm looking forward to the whole "western" look.

Well, you know, there is a "western look". But then again, there absolutely is not! What do I mean? You'll see!

Quote:
I'm looking forward to the cool visual effects ...

Oddly enough, the effects are not all that "cool". Which is not to say the effects are badly done. They are very good indeed. They are so good, in fact. that the line between effects and live action gets pretty blury. But not in a show-offy George Lucas kind of way. It's ... well, there's the R word again!

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Tuesday, October 1, 2002 9:30 AM

REYVNDARKNIGHT

[q]Ringwraith:
So what am I expecting from Firefly?
I mean, this show won't be having aliens (thank God!) [/q]

First zicsoft now, you? Everyone hates aliens in sci-fi? When did sci-fi become so racist?

Admitidly some sci-fi can get over board with use of aliens (ie Star Trek and Star Wars). But some sci-fi has used aliens as great characters (ie Farscape). I think Whedon shouldn't ignore the conventional use of aliens or at least one alien race. Perhaps Whedon could change his mind and introduce an alien race. **cough cough** Reavers **cough cough**

[q]Ringwraith:
The fact that there will be no sound in the space scenes! Everyone loves the roar of the Millennium Falcon, Enterprise hitting warp speed or the sound of a jump gate opening in Babylon 5 but having no sound at all...that is so 2001: A Space Odyssey--in a good way. Some sci-fi purists won't like it but at least it's being realistic. [/q]

I am looking forward to that too. Though I like Star Wars, I cringged when Jango used those sonic torpedos in the vaccum of space. One of the best effects I have seen so far was during the meeting with that Russian mafiaso in the premier episode. He had a window to space and the light practically glared into the room similar to what I am sure it is like from the International Space Station.

And I am also looking forward to chatting with everyone about Firefly. Hope it keeps flying.

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Tuesday, October 1, 2002 11:47 AM

ZICSOFT

I have nothing against aliens as such. (Some of my best... no, don't go there.) But there are a couple of big issues:

First off all, I've seen and read more human/alien encounter stories than I care to think about. Some of them are worth my time, but most of them are crap. And the crap ratio keeps going up -- it's an easy out for hack writers who can't think up anything original. By getting rid of aliens (and a lot of the other conventional SF stuff) Whedon forces himself and his writers to get back to basics, and not use the Gee Whiz factor to hide weak stories and characters.

Second issue: aliens probably don't exist. Yeah, we've all taken them for granted for a long time (the first story about them -- de Bergerac's "Empires of the Moon" -- was written over three centuries ago), but there's something called the Fermi Paradox that says we're all alone in the universe. It's not a pretty thought, but what you gonna do?

JOSS, WHERE'S MY CHECK???!!!

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Tuesday, October 1, 2002 12:24 PM

HJERMSTED

I wonder if Joss believes in time travel...

Then the Firefly folks can play around somewhat with the "visitation" theme (or lack thereof).

I remember when I read Whitley Strieber's Communion (way back when) how one of his theories about who the visitors are involved future humans (evolved beyond recognition/communication) visiting our era of Earth to learn about the past.

I'm certain Mutant Enemy could have some fun with that premise. And since they are us, they wouldn't, technically, be aliens.

Just a thought...

mattro

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Tuesday, October 1, 2002 1:45 PM

ZICSOFT

Quote:
Originally posted by Hjermsted:
I wonder if Joss believes in time travel...

Then the Firefly folks can play around somewhat with the "visitation" theme (or lack thereof).

I'm betting not. It's not a question of belief -- I think maybe JW wouldn't use aliens even if he did believe in them. He just doesn't want to do that kind of story. He's made a hard-edged show about people living at the fringes of history, and eye-popping science/magic is gonna spoil that. They might as well have a Buffy crossover ep!

JOSS, WHERE'S MY CHECK???!!!

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Tuesday, October 1, 2002 6:08 PM

BACCHUS68

Personally I really like the No Alien idea on this show.

It does make you have to think more and makes it a bit more real to me. I feel like I can identofy with this world a bit more. I don't remember a show that didn't have aliens that was sci-fi or at least have human looking aliens or aliens masqueraing as humans yada yada yada. I didn't know how I would feel about it but now after seing the reavers and the way the shows progressing I think it is kinda cool not to have aliens and I hope they stick with it.

Take out the aliens probably also adds to a less costly and tecnically challenging show.I know Firefly is an expensive show because of all the CGI space stuff and fancy floating trains and the like but take out the latex and it probably makes it for an easier to shoot show for him then Buffy and the like. MAybe he didn't want aliens just for that sake. It's easier to keep costs down on CGI then it is on Latex and puppets so maybe this will be the wave of the future on sci-fi type shows.

Bac.

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Tuesday, October 1, 2002 11:39 PM

SHUGGIE

My biggest problem with aliens in SF is that they are rarely (I mean very rarely) done well. They're either basically just funny shaped humans (i.e. they think and talk exactly like we do) or they have some artificial broad-brush distinction to make them different (e.g. Vulcans being utterly logical) which usually gets abandoned the first time someone thinks it'll make an interesting storyline (Spock cries! Look an unemotional alien acting emotionally!).

My guess is that real aliens would be so alien that we'd struggle to understand them at all. Portraying that realistically in a way that still enables you to tell an interesting story would be difficult.

Of course you can (and I have) level a similar criticism at Buffyverse demons. At times I feel they treat the vamps like the evil soulless things we were originally told they were - and other times like regular people with whom we might sympathize - depending on what better suits the storyline.

Shug

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Wednesday, October 2, 2002 12:43 AM

BACCHUS68

When it comes to Aliens/demons you are right at them not being totally alien. ALiens/Demons usually serve 2 purposes in sci-fi/fantasy shows. As metaphors for real humans problems/conditions or to serve as Big Bad monsters.

Making a alien that has no emotions could serve as a purpose how emotions are either valuable or a hindrence in certain situations. Or in other words Spock shows no emotions and as a human we can say how valuable our emotions are by bouncing them off this emotionless uncaring person(presto see emotions are what makes humans special) it also show how our emotions get us into trouble(poof we charge in and get in trouble because we were led by our emotions and didn't think of the dangers etc..)

monster of the week is a really easy way to make a villan that humans can see without the ambiguity. or in other words the Pro wrestling approach. There's a good guy and a bad guy. make the bad guy an alien and he's equally distingused as bad because well look at how unhuman he looks he's bad. ISnple. Its way more of a cop out then the Villian as metaphor idea.

So for example Buffy had Vampires as just the bad pro wresler guy. You knew you had to hate him you knew he was bad because he wore black or was souless etc.. Then came Spike and emotional driven vampires like Darla more human type vampires like harmony etc.. It changed the lanscape a bit because we added human values to these vampires again to express human conditions. Spike/Dru expressing Love. Can you be evil and still show love? It's the shades of human emotion that is so vital.

Joss talked about Mal being from the vietnamese side of things when it comes to the alliance(us). SO he will see the good of the alliance as the bad from his perspective but the alliance also is bad as well in some things like our own country. WIth our present post sept 11th analagy I really want to see this explored alot because it is a valuable part of the equation for us to explore and only SCi-fi/fantasy can explore this in a good way because it doesn't hold the raw emotions of real cultures issues or the danger of culture bashing/anger/emotions protesting this but can teach us. That's the power of this type of show and why not having aliens is an even better way to get us closer to exploring real peoples experiences without the gut reaction against it. Because if the person going through this doesn't have a ridge on his head he becomes closer to who we are and in terms of the world we understand it better and that a good thing even if what we see is not very pretty.

Bac.

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Wednesday, October 2, 2002 6:32 AM

ZICSOFT

Quote:
Take out the aliens probably also adds to a less costly and tecnically challenging show.

Probably not that much. I don't know how much it costs to hire a prosthetics expert, but Hollywood must be full of them. It's a pain for the actors though -- all that latex takes hours to apply and remove.

And after a while, it just stops looking real. I don't see aliens any more, I see humans in latex masks. Plus I used to hate it when some particularly pretty actress would guest on Star Trek, only to have her face totally hidden.

JOSS, WHERE'S MY CHECK???!!!

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Wednesday, October 2, 2002 6:43 AM

ZICSOFT

Quote:
Originally posted by Shuggie:
My biggest problem with aliens in SF is that they are rarely (I mean very rarely) done well. They're either basically just funny shaped humans (i.e. they think and talk exactly like we do) or they have some artificial broad-brush distinction to make them different (e.g. Vulcans being utterly logical) which usually gets abandoned the first time someone thinks it'll make an interesting storyline (Spock cries! Look an unemotional alien acting emotionally!).

I absolutely, totally agree. The worst part is that this kind of storytelling employs the kind of group stereotyping that we just don't need to perpetuate.

Ever read any of Larry Niven's "Known Space" stories? He used to write about seriously alien aliens -- cowardly herbivores with two heads and three legs, vaguely cat-like creatures with impulse control issues, beings with radar sets instead of eyes, that are known for their sculptures. Probably not as alien as real aliens would be, assuming they actually exist. But way beyond what most SF writers have done, to say nothing about the crude aliens we see on TV.

I used to look forward to the day when CGI would get good enough to break out of the human-in-a-mask box. Then I met Jar Jar Binks, and realized that CGI wasn't the problem.

JOSS, WHERE'S MY CHECK???!!!

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Wednesday, October 2, 2002 6:52 AM

ZICSOFT

Quote:
Joss talked about Mal being from the vietnamese side of things when it comes to the alliance(us). SO he will see the good of the alliance as the bad from his perspective but the alliance also is bad as well in some things like our own country.

Whedon's parallels between the Alliance and America in it's Imperial mode are very apt, and I'm looking forward to seeing how he plays them out.

One nitpick: there doesn't seem to be a lot of anti-Americanism in Vietnam. You'd think there would be, but Americans who travel there report exactly the opposite. Even guys who fought in the war report being treated more like long-lost cousins than former enemies. Even when they meet the guerillas and soldiers they fought against. Especially then. Quite mind-boggling.

JOSS, WHERE'S MY CHECK???!!!

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Wednesday, October 2, 2002 7:30 AM

SHUGGIE

Quote:
Originally posted by Zicsoft:
Ever read any of Larry Niven's "Known Space" stories?

Yep. Read a lot of them when I was younger.

Quote:
He used to write about seriously alien aliens -- cowardly herbivores with two heads and three legs,

Puppeteers. IIRC they had 3 genders including a non-sentient one. But they didn't like to talk about that.

Quote:
vaguely cat-like creatures with impulse control issues,

Kzin. I must admit I found these a lot less alien - they are very like Klingons - very strict codes of honour, ritualized aggressive behaviour. They were however quite well drawn I thought more so than Klingons imho.

Actually Niven cleverly populates Known Space with a variety of lifeforms with varying degrees of human-likeness. He makes the point that there are species that just don't interact because their thinking, frames of reference are so different.

Quote:
beings with radar sets instead of eyes, that are known for their sculptures.

Was that the Trinocs? Slavers? I forget.

Or how about Pak? Our 'ancestors'?

Quote:
Probably not as alien as real aliens would be, assuming they actually exist. But way beyond what most SF writers have done, to say nothing about the crude aliens we see on TV.

True. When you think how complex even the simplist lifeforms are, how many variables there are, you have to think that there are billions of possibilities. Even if life evolved elsewhere on a very similar planet the probability is that it would look really different.

Shug

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Wednesday, October 2, 2002 9:35 AM

WHATNOW

Quote:
Originally posted by Ringwraith:
To be quite honest I haven't read a whole lot about the show in regards to reviews of episodes and such. I'm trying to be as spoiler-free as possible (as is my wife) but as the day draws near it's hard to not want to read anything. Still, I think I'm doing a pretty good job.

So what am I expecting from Firefly?

I'm expecting great writing. This is a given, I think. It's a Whedon series and once again he's surrounded himself with great scribes. I've come to expect the unexpected from him and his crew and I think that it won't be any different this time around. I mean, this show won't be having aliens (thank God!) or ray-guns (thank God again!) so right off the bat you're knocking most sci-fi conventions on their head.

I'm expecting a story-arc. Okay, that actually is in the "writing" category but I am expecting some sort of arc, if not this season then in the next--providing there is one. If there is an arc this year I won't expect it to be big but perhaps an underlying arc, like season 1 Babylon 5, Millennium or Buffy. Heck, even Angel's first season had one.

I'm expecting strong performances from the actors. His shows have good acting (and stand-outs like James Marsters--sp?) and I hope this one is no different.

I'm expecting a cinematic look to the show along the lines of Angel. Not widescreen, though that would be nice, I mean the overall look and feel. I don't want it to look like Star Trek (though I like Trek). A Farscape kinda look would be nice.

I'm also expecting people to say, "Well, this show is OKAY but it's a rip-off of fill-in-the-blank." Star Trek, Andromeda, Babylon 5, Farscape, Doctor Who, Battlestar Gallactica, Lost in Space, Manimal. It's a TV show, just relax. If you don't like it, don't watch it.

What I'm not expecting but looking forward to...

The fact that there will be no sound in the space scenes! Everyone loves the roar of the Millennium Falcon, Enterprise hitting warp speed or the sound of a jump gate opening in Babylon 5 but having no sound at all...that is so 2001: A Space Odyssey--in a good way. Some sci-fi purists won't like it but at least it's being realistic.

I'm looking forward to the whole "western" look. Six-shooters, the clothes (gotta love those gun belts--will someone have a bandolier?) and horses. I know some will hate this concept but I for one think this, more than anything, will make Firefly stand out amongst the other sci-fi shows. It's so out-there that it will work. Besides, what's a better sound than someone cocking a pistol?

I'm looking forward to the cool visual effects I've heard so much about and have only seen fleetingly on commercials.

More than anything, I'm looking forward to discussing this show with all of you this season and hopefully future seasons. Haken has started a great community here. My hat is off to him.

Sorry, it's not a cowboy hat.

************************************************
"How will this end?"
"In fire."
--Babylon 5, 'The Coming of Shadows'
************************************************

Do you mean to keep horses onboard the ship? How about bikes like in STAR WARS? I want more tech. A phase pistol when activated makes a sound as its power builds up-even better than the sound of a six-shooter cocking, and it has other possibilites available, such as stun setting and complete detonation. More tech means more options. Yes bandoliers updated of course. I don't care if Josh rips off any other show as long as he puts it to good use. What do you mean by writing-arc?

Whatnow

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Wednesday, October 2, 2002 10:01 AM

WHATNOW

You should read what Carl Sagan had to say about possible alien lifeforms. It's a safe assumption they need oxygen if they have high tech. If you don't originate on a primarily oxygen world then you can't have fire and if no fire no high tech. You need stereoscopic vision to denote distance. So you won't have an eye on each side of your head like some whales. There are many anthropological reasons and many exo-biological reasons why things are such. In other words if there are to be aliens then they would be similiar to ourselves in many ways. Dolphins are intelligent but have no appendages and live in a water environment thus no high tech. I believe they do exist but we are much too isolated to interact. As late as the early 1700's many people inhabiting our own world were undiscovered on what was considered far away islands in the Pacific. So if you encounter an alien lifeform with fairly advanced tech then he most likely breaths oxygen, and has a roughly similar body structure as we do.

Whatnow

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Wednesday, October 2, 2002 10:02 AM

ZICSOFT

Quote:
Originally posted by whatnow:
I want more tech. A phase pistol when activated makes a sound as its power builds up-even better than the sound of a six-shooter cocking, and it has other possibilites available, such as stun setting and complete detonation. More tech means more options.

So you want a show with cool sound and visual effects? There are already a zillion shows and movies like that, and they all bore me to tears. The eye and ear candy make it to easy to get away with writing crap.

JOSS, WHERE'S MY CHECK???!!!

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Wednesday, October 2, 2002 11:43 AM

RINGWRAITH

Quote:
Originally posted by whatnow:
Quote:
Do you mean to keep horses onboard the ship? How about bikes like in STAR WARS? I want more tech. A phase pistol when activated makes a sound as its power builds up-even better than the sound of a six-shooter cocking, and it has other possibilites available, such as stun setting and complete detonation. More tech means more options. Yes bandoliers updated of course. I don't care if Josh rips off any other show as long as he puts it to good use. What do you mean by writing-arc?

Whatnow

Zicsoft already spoke about a few of those issues, such as there already are sci-fi shows that have laser weapons that make noises and such.

Besides, the more tech the more something can go wrong. And how well built are these things? Do they break if you step on them or drop them? Is weather an issue? How about heat or water? EMP? The power in the unit runs out? What if it breaks, how do you fix it if you don't have the tools or the parts?

As for "writing-arc" I mean a story that takes place over 5 or more (is there a minimum limit?) episodes, like the Glory storyline from Buffy season 5 or the Shadow War which is mid season 2 to mid season 4 of Babylon 5. If Firefly lasts another season I bet Joss will "open his show up" ala Buffy or Angel.

And I doubt they'd keep horses on board Serenity although some other ships might.

************************************************
"How will this end?"
"In fire."
--Babylon 5, 'The Coming of Shadows'
************************************************

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Wednesday, October 2, 2002 12:25 PM

LIVINGIMPAIRED

Quote:
Originally posted by Ringwraith:
As for "writing-arc" I mean a story that takes place over 5 or more (is there a minimum limit?) episodes, like the Glory storyline from Buffy season 5 or the Shadow War which is mid season 2 to mid season 4 of Babylon 5. If Firefly lasts another season I bet Joss will "open his show up" ala Buffy or Angel.

If Firefly lasts, my money is on half a season before the show stops being episodic and starts being serialized (baring intervention from network exes that have no business in the writing arena). Buffy started to become serialized around the begining of S2 (S1 was only half a season) and Angel was serialized around halfway into S1. I'm guessing the trend's going to continute. Assuming he makes it even that long.

________________

"You still don't get it. It's not about right, not about wrong... It's about Power." —Morph-O-Monster, "Lessons"

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Wednesday, October 2, 2002 3:00 PM

ZICSOFT

Quote:
Originally posted by LivingImpaired:

If Firefly lasts, my money is on half a season before the show stops being episodic and starts being serialized (baring intervention from network exes that have no business in the writing arena). Buffy started to become serialized around the begining of S2 (S1 was only half a season) and Angel was serialized around halfway into S1. I'm guessing the trend's going to continute. Assuming he makes it even that long.

Hmm, you and I seem to have very different pictures of S1 and S2. As I see it, the S1 arc was about the duel between The Slayer and The Master. This arc began with the very first ep, but didn't include every ep in the season. The biggest criticism I have of S1 is that Whedon created and disposed of The Master in a half-dozen or so episodes. This Big Bad was too interesting a character to come and go like that!

In S2, the arc (my opinion again) is about the sacrifices Buffy has to make because she's the Slayer. So the fact that the Big Bad doesn't even exist until Ep 13 ("Suprise") is kind of beside the point, because so many elements of the arc -- love, betrayal, sacrifice -- are established much earlier.

There's something of this in all subsequent Buffy seasons. The Big Bad doesn't show up until way into the season, but their story begins long before their actual appearance. Why is everybody in Sunnydale afraid of the Mayor? Why are commandos kidnapping vampires? Why does Buffy suddenly have a sister? It's a gimmick for building suspense -- a very effective gimmick.

Both Buffy S6 and Angel S1 are exceptions that prove the rule. BS6 had an arc that sputtered and flailed, started and stopped, so the dramatic momentum was lost. But it still established itself (or tried to) early in the season.

As for Angel: that series was originally supposed to be purely episodic. They didn't even start writing an arc until they decided the episodic approach wasn't working.

Now, if the big arc in Firefly S1 is about the crew fighting the mysterious folks who want River back, then it's already well underway. Right now, arc building is taking a back seat to telling episodic stories, but it does seem to be happening.

JOSS, WHERE'S MY CHECK???!!!

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Wednesday, October 2, 2002 5:12 PM

MILLERNATE

Quote:

So you want a show with cool sound and visual effects? There are already a zillion shows and movies like that, and they all bore me to tears. The eye and ear candy make it to easy to get away with writing crap.

How about a show that simply fits with human history. The entire history of man has been one of continual technological advantages. Where as in Firefly it appears, somehow, that the ability to travel space to a significant extent led people to 1800s style dress and technology. This simply wouldn't be the case.

Nathan
"It looks like a great adventure...That's what it is; that's what it feels like. When I saw the pilot, it was really engaging. It was exciting. It was unusual. It threw me off every now and then. I think people will be grabbed by it." - Ron Glass, on the pilot, during an interview with the Indianapolis Star

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Wednesday, October 2, 2002 7:58 PM

HAPLO721

I read a story once in an old SF magazine about aliens who kept attacking humans psychically by projecting a sensation of utter aloneness. The only defense was to call up your strongest memories of togetherness. By the end, it turns out that being alone is preferable to these beings, and that they dread being with others. The "attacks" were their attempts to communicate. How's that for alien?

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Wednesday, October 2, 2002 10:17 PM

HANDSOFBLUE

We need to stop hoping that Firefly won't get cancelled and do something about it, It's time to get of our asses and spread the word that Firefly without any dought ROCKS!! We must tell our friends get them to tell their friends, hand out flyers ANYTHING!!! to stop it's demise. If Fox won't make an effort we have to. Otherwise after the death of Farscape the only space shows left will be the dull Enterprise, The worn out Stargate SG1 and the crappy Andromeda. We must do what we can to save the best space show since the beloved Farscape.

Handsofblue

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Thursday, October 3, 2002 9:34 AM

ZICSOFT

Quote:
How about a show that simply fits with human history. The entire history of man has been one of continual technological advantages.

You mean "advancements", right? Anyway, that's just not true. Perhaps you've heard of the Middle Ages?

But that's all beside the point. The advanced technology isn't missing from the Firefly. It's just that not everybody has equal access to it. And that's not exactly a weird idea. How many humans have access to private cars, CD players, the Internet? Almost everybody you know? But you probably live in a "developed" country, and that only accounts for maybe 25% of the world's population.

Plus, new technology is not always better. Firearms are a good example. Jeff Timm, our resident gun enthusiast (and also a Traveller RGP enthusiast, which is probably not a coincidence) has posted a lot of interesting comments on this topic. I won't attempt to repeat his arguments, but he makes a good case for "old-fashioned" weapons being around for a long time.

JOSS, WHERE'S MY CHECK???!!!

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Monday, October 7, 2002 8:47 AM

LOONYTOON

Okay, this is going to be entirely about weapons, and how a beam weapon would restrict tactics.

exposure: okay, picture this scenario. We`re in the firefly universe. A band of baddies is about 150 yards away, you are setup in some brush, well camoflauged, in a ghilly suit. You have a semiautomatic battle rifle, similar to a FN FAL.
You take careful aim on the leader, and drop him, and another before they figure out what is happening. They didn`t see the muzzle flash, as you are deep under cover. You can pick off a couple more before they figure out where you are, and then you have the upper hand, they are scared, and you can either withdraw, or pursue the engagement.
Now picture this. We are in the trek or star wars universe. You are setup in a similar situation. You fire on the leader with your compression phaser rifle. It lights up the sky, pointing out you position, momentarily blinding you if it is dark. They let out a flurry of fire as they hit the ground. They know exactly where you are, you can`t move as they are covering you with fire. Correct me if I`m wrong, But there is a reason snipers don`t use tracers?

protection: picture the borg. they can disperse energy, as it is basically heat and energy. Give it a better place to go, path of least resistence. Or they can even feed it into a battery of sorts, gaining strength from your fire. Now shoot the SOB with a .460 weatherby, chugging along with 7500 foot pounds of energy. Even if the sheilds hold back the bullet, its still going to dump almost 4 tons worth of energy into a little maybe 400 pound drone. Look mommie, the borg can fly! So if the idiots would have armed the away team with M-60s with AP rounds, the borg would be a footnote in history.

Collateral damage: It is much easier to sheild your own ship against gunfire. If you put 1/2 inch plate over sensitive electronics, a .45 acp bullet will deflect, where if you want to destroy it, you carry a .308. A energy weapon would fry it from the heat alone, whether the firer be freind or foe. Plus, the trekkie weapons almost all seem the widen there beam at range, making precise hits impossible.

Easier to fix: guns are metal. All mechanical(except that bastardized m700 etron-x). Where a beam weapon would necesarily be quite complex, there for hard to fix in the middle of a firefight. It would require complex tools to do any significant mods.

Sheer power: on another sight, they were making fun of firefly for using shotguns. Yeah, they are 110 old technology, but the rangers still carry remington 870s. You show me something that is as good for close range combat that is as quick handling, powerful, or simple. Why screw with something that has worked for years?

Besides, the colt slabsides has been around for almost 1 century, why not a couple more?

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