Talk About Being A Dumb Planet........ by Jongsstraw

FIREFLY EPISODE DISCUSSIONS

Talk About Being A Dumb Planet........

POSTED BY: JONGSSTRAW
UPDATED: Sunday, September 16, 2007 16:29
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Wednesday, August 29, 2007 2:14 AM

Persephone takes the fruitcake for being a very freaky place....something like Gone With The Wind in Space :

1) They have slaves? Slaves who make dresses for their masters. What else do they do? How can a whole planet have slavery?

2) They carry guns, but fight duels with swords? Why didn't Mal just tell Wing to f**k off, and verbally humiliate him in front of all his high-society friends for his vulgar possessiveness towards Inara?

3) They fight to the death? Isn't there any type of law enforcement? If no law enforcement, then how do they keep their slaves in line? Does the Alliance approve and allow slavery under its' rule?

4) Their absurd and phony sense of chivalry is laughable and pretentious, on par with Scarlett O'Hara and her beaux at the Wilkes bar-b-que.

5) Why did Wing get SO jealous, so fast? It was one dance, one lousy dance out of dozens of dances....why did Warwick egg on and instigate the whole mess by saying to Wing that "you're a brave man" when Mal took her on the floor?

6) Does Inara really believe these Cinderella Ball people are actually her friends? When does she get to Persephone...once or twice a year? Wouldn't they all be whispering and mocking the whole disgusting arrangement with Wing, just like Mal stated?

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Wednesday, August 29, 2007 2:29 AM

REDLAVA

I'm sure there is law enforcement on Persophone, but I'm sure it was more for the foul smelling rabble then for the elites. Rich and powerful people don't have to play by the rules in a society like that.

I don't think that Inara truly believes that those people are her friends. I think that she was more interested in making Mal jealous and uncomfortable than being completely truthsome. Mal had just invaded her world and that kind of ticked her off especially after all of the things that he has said to degrade her job and her lifestyle.

I think Atherton got so jealous so fast was because he was the typical rich spoiled dandy. He is used to getting what he wants and having lesser people bowing to his every whim. And seeing Mal come in and gracefully take what Ath assumed was his because he bought and paid for it made him look less of a man in front of his peers.

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Wednesday, August 29, 2007 3:01 AM

CERES

I'd agree with what Redlava said, but also -
although slavery's mentioned in other episodes the dresses aren't necessarily made by a slave.
Banning says, 'Your girl. She's not very good. She made you a dress looks like you bought it in a store.' That could be a maid or an indentured servant.
I think Atherton could quickly tell there's a rapport between Inara and Mal that he couldn't hope to compete with.

.....................................

You can question the meaning of life on a floaty
island of your own for a while.

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Wednesday, August 29, 2007 3:11 AM

JONGSSTRAW

I'm not trying to pick on this epsiode, as I've always loved it. I watched it again last nite, and all the silly things about it just hit me. The gentleman who befriends Kaylee says it must have taken a dozen slaves to get her into that dress....yes he didnt say the dozen slaves actually made the dress. He was a classy man, and so was Warwick...they have slaves too ya think?

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Wednesday, August 29, 2007 3:23 AM

CERES

I'd forgotton he said that.
I’d read somewhere that Joss admires Jane Austen so I think the society here is based a little on hers. The duels (which did take place in her time although they were illegal), the titled people, the slaves who weren’t present in her society but definitely produced the money that paid for it. Also some of the etiquette seems to belong to her time.

You can question the meaning of life on a floaty
island of your own for a while.

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Wednesday, August 29, 2007 5:04 PM

TRAVELER

In the United States dueling was always against the law, but it was common. One of our presidents was in a few. I believe he used pistols instead of swords. I can't remember which one. Will have to look it up.

Remember the Train Job and how the commander of the Aliance ship didn't bother helping the sheriff with the investigation. It seems Mal is right when he speaks about their government as annoying one minute and then ignoring the next.

Slavery was also shown in Jaynestown. So it seems established on several planets. Does not seem to matter if the planet is prominent or on the fringe. But I expect a Mudder life is worse than the slaves in the core planets. Can't have a mud covered slave fitting you into a hand stitched dress.

http://www.imdb.com/mymovies/list?l=28764731
Traveler

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Wednesday, August 29, 2007 5:21 PM

REDLAVA

One of the most famous American duels was Alexander Hamilton (1st US Treasurer, and graces the $10 bill) dueled with Aaron Burr (Thomas Jefferson's Vice President). Burr shot and killed Hamilton.

And you can almost compare the indentured servants in Jaynestown to the Chinese/American relationship today. The $12-$15 dollar plastic lead paint coated toy you buy at Wal-Mart is made by Chinese workers for .12 cents. And they work 12 hour shifts in a crappy factory for a dollar or two a day.

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Wednesday, August 29, 2007 6:05 PM

NCBROWNCOAT

Apparently Andrew Jackson owns the record for Presidential duels (all out of office) Here's a paragraph out of Wikipeadia:

"Jackson met Rachel Donelson Robards after her divorce from her first husband, Colonel Lewis Robards; Jackson and Mrs. Robards quickly married. Mr. Robards returned two years later without ever having finalized the divorce. Rachel quickly divorced her first husband and then legally married Jackson. This remained a sore point for Jackson, who deeply resented attacks on his wife's honor. Jackson fought 103 duels, many nominally over his wife's honor. Charles Dickinson, the only man Jackson ever killed in a duel, had been goaded into angering Jackson by Jackson's political opponents. In the duel, fought over a horse-racing debt and an insult to his wife on May 30, 1806, Dickinson shot Jackson in the ribs before Jackson returned the fatal shot. The bullet that struck Jackson was so close to his heart that it could never be safely removed. Jackson had been wounded so frequently in duels that it was said he "rattled like a bag of marbles".[25] At times he would cough up blood, and he experienced considerable pain from his wounds for the rest of his life."

http://fireflyfaninnc.livejournal.com/

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Wednesday, August 29, 2007 6:50 PM

STOWEAWAY

Thank you, NCBrowncoat, that was very....historical.

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Wednesday, August 29, 2007 7:34 PM

TRAVELER

So Firefly reflects some of our culture. A president would not duel today. But we all know politicians and people with power can and will abuse it.

Hopefully the wages of the Chinese will increase. I doubt in my lifetime. Each nation must find their way. We, in the United States, certainly don't have the best track record for human rights. But each generation places its mark on the road to equality and justice. Sometimes, more the pity, we take a step backwards. Hopefully we will always take more steps forward. Other nations will follow this course. Some more slowly and then a nation like South Africa will take a sudden leap in human rights. You have to hope for the best and do those small things that make the big difference.

It is ironic how much our politicians brag about our country, the United States, and then we hear of captives being held without due process of law and torture applied. A tragedy like 911 can bring on a paranoia that creates terrible injustice. We should not allow the actions of others make us forget the purpose of the struggles to gain the freedoms so many fought for. We seem to be forgeting those freedoms extend to those who are under our authority, like the Islamic prisoners we are holding captive. Our laws extend to these catives as well as ourselves. If we don't allow one person their rights than what about our own?
Torture in any form should not be tolerated in this country.

http://www.imdb.com/mymovies/list?l=28764731
Traveler

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Wednesday, August 29, 2007 7:38 PM

BROOKLYNBROWNCOAT

Persepohne was the maurivigian's wife in the Matrix 2&3, does that help?

"Take my love, take my land,
Take my crack stem from my hand,
I don't care, I'm still free,
My fingers stink of feces

Take me out, buy some crack,
Tell your mom I'll be right back,
Burn the land boil the sea,
You can't take this high from me

There's no place I can be
since I started smoking trees

You can't take my crack from me"

all time classics from beneath the bridge:
Enjoyed by over 2,500 Firefly Fans:

http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=15&t=21727#497424

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Thursday, August 30, 2007 1:05 AM

NCBROWNCOAT

Quote:
Originally posted by Stoweaway:
Thank you, NCBrowncoat, that was very....historical.

I'm a fountain of trivia, most of it useless.

http://fireflyfaninnc.livejournal.com/

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Sunday, September 16, 2007 4:29 PM

BROWNCOATSANDINISTA

The Indentured workers on the Higgin's Moon weren't slaves, in the most esoteric and literal of senses. Being indentured means that for a period of time you are essentially someone's slave, usually to pay off a debt or somesuch. That said, after the period of indenturedmentnessocity ((Not a real word if you couldn't already tell)) one was free. Another example of this would be in "The Train Job" when Inara bursts in and saves Mal's butt by saying he's her "Indentured man" and that she'd have to add another six months for the 'little escapade'. However, Slavery in some form seems to exist in the Union of Allied Planets, as evidenced by the slaver that Mal and Jayne were playing pool against at the begining of "Shindig". Mal says "Labour, you mean slaves." to which the 'good drinker' replies "They weren't volunteers that's for damn sure."

The point is, though this may be a bit of a stretch, is that the gentleman who befriends Kaylee at the party was probably just using an interesting turn of phrase rather than a literal one.

As to the whole Duel thing, for the upper class there may be something of a cultural revival underway, and considering the many cultures that they could revive its not particularly surprising that they duel with swords ((The Japanese did it, Europe did it, and if I'm not mistaken the Chinese did it as well)). That said, at least in the European tradition, duels were not to the death. They were until one duelist couldn't continue, as determined by a neutral physician. It was more often in fiction that one found duels "To First Blood" or "To the Death".

I think Atherton got so jealous so fast because Mal was dancing with his "Property" ((How disgusting I find it to think of a woman as one's property, or a man, or anyone for that matter)) when he had not "Payed" for its use. That he was able to have a real relationship with Inara, without money changing hands, must have really bugged him. I think Sir Warrick egged him on because he doesn't like Ath, and thought it was funny.

That's my view anyway. Its funny how a society can seem so advanced and yet be so backwards. Really makes one think about moral absolutism v. moral relativism ((Or at least it makes me think that way)).

"I'm not going to say Serenity is the greatest SciFi movie ever; oh wait yes I am." - Orson Scott Card

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