Love triangles in Firefly by MerryK

FIREFLY EPISODE DISCUSSIONS

Love triangles in Firefly

POSTED BY: MERRYK
UPDATED: Sunday, September 16, 2007 12:35
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Saturday, September 15, 2007 9:55 AM

Most stories, and pretty much 100% of ones with romances, have love triangles. They may be simple, with two requited lovers and one unrequited ones, or they may be more complex with one person deciding between two people.

I maintain that the main theme of Firefly is love, in all its forms. We have agape or unconditional love (Simon and River), philia or friendship (Mal and Zoe), eros (Wash/Zoe, Simon/Kaylee, Mal/Inara), and many situations of storge or affection. But while there are many romantic entanglements, on the surface none of them appear to involve a love triangle. They're just frustrated relationships...and very frustrating to fans.

But if you look more closely, I think it is pretty plain that all these relationships are indeed love triangles. It's just that there are different types of love warring with each other.

Firstly and most obviously, the triangle between Mal/Zoe/Wash. It's clear that Zoe and Mal have no romantic love between them, though Wash for a moment thinks so, but the element of a love triangle is there because Zoe must constantly choose between her strong philia for Mal and her eros for Wash. Though these are two different types of love, she cannot have both at the same time without losing both. So far she's always chosen Wash when it comes down to it, but the dynamic isn't vanquished yet.

Secondly, and a little less obviously, is the Simon/Kaylee/River triangle. Before everyone freaks out, I do not consider this a romantic triangle! But it might as well be in some cases. Simon and River have a special bond between them, a true form of agape, unconditional love, strong enough that they will die for each other. But then, there is Simon's eros for Kaylee, who he would also die to protect. Like Zoe, Simon must constantly try to balance these two loves. Usually River comes out on top, as the first person who he loved and also more needy than Kaylee, but perhaps by the end of the BDM we see him giving more of the balance to Kaylee.

And lastly, and probably least obvious, is the triangle between Mal/Inara/Serenity. Mal, as we have seen in Out of Gas, would rather die with Serenity than Inara, and I think she understands that she has to compete with that. And for them to get together, Mal is simply going to have to choose. So far he's always chosen Serenity...will he ever choose Inara?

--
"My way of being polite, or however...well, it's the only way I have of showing you that I like you. Of showing respect." Simon Tam, Jaynestown

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Saturday, September 15, 2007 11:47 AM

NBZ

I think I have to politely disagree.

One thing about Firefly is that not only were the writers/actors/everyone on the top of their game, they knew so too. There was a type of arrogance in the show which is lacking in most TV shows (and added to the whole atmosphere of the show). They took the rule book of clichés and tore it apart. Or laughed at it. They did not feel like they had to play by the same rules. One of those was love.

Don't get me wrong, there would have been plenty in this action oriented show as it has become a staple diet for all TV. Something that cannot be avoided, but Joss and co still toyed with it.

An example? You get a petty thief and whore who have feelings of each other. It is obvious that the petty thief will not be able to accept the fidelity of the whore. What did we get? the whore could not accept the fidelity of the petty thief.

I do not think there were (yet) any of the types of love triangles you are looking for. To show one, you have to not consider other relationships. Like Inara/Mal/Serenity. You have to forget mal/Kaylee and Mal/Zoe to make it into a triangle. (and no, there is no competition between a ship and a person. It is clear Inara loved the ship too. The only time it would be an issue is if one had to leave while the other would not.)

Mal/Zoe Wash is probably closest to traditional triangle - but the "twist" is two of them are not physically attracted to each other!

Simon/Kaylee/River is also too isolated. Add Mal to the mix. Kaylee looks (or rather looked) up to Mal, who has a fondness for her, but does not really like Simon who more or less does not like Mal who does help provide a home for him and his sister. And then there is Jayne. Some suggest he has an attraction to Kaylee, who does see some good inside him.

(Also a note - IMO by the time of the BDM Joss did have some "arrogance" knocked out of him. He does pick up the rule book and start to play with a few clichés that he had tried to avoid earlier. In fairness he mostly did avoid them in the BDM - but if you read the earlier draft, it contained a lot more of them than I expected.)

In short, I do not think we should look for cliches from other shows in Firefly.

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Saturday, September 15, 2007 12:55 PM

MERRYK

Interesting post, NBZ, but I think you missed my point. My point was that, yes, the traditional love triangle is cliché, and that is why I like how they are treated in Firefly. It is so much more interesting when part of the triangle is not physically attracted to each other...it's not something you ever really see. Romance is all fine and good, but there are many other ways to look at love. Perhaps it is the term love triangle that you object to, because, frankly, it does sound cliché. But the relationships are not. Also, can you say that Simon does not struggle with taking care of River versus courting Kaylee? Love triangle is the only word I can find in English to describe that kind of struggle, but I don't think I was looking too hard for it.

I am truly confused by the idea that you can't have a love triangle without leaving out all the other relationships. When it comes down to it, romantic love tends to think mostly about itself, and other relationships are tossed to the side (an unfortunate occurrence, I think). But I, as a viewer, did not do that; the TV writers did it for me. I cannot see any evidence that Kaylee was thinking about Jayne or Mal in her relationship with Simon...she wanted him, and that seems to be it. However, everywhere you look, Simon has to deal with his love for River and his love for Kaylee creating warring priorities.

I don't think that the only interesting thing about Simon and River and Kaylee is their relationships to each other...if that's all the show gave for them, it would be pretty mediocre. I agree with you that the other relationships are very interesting and ultimately important. However, the show and the movie focus quite a bit on those relationships, and so I don't think I am out of place to recognize that that's what they did.

I don't agree that Serenity is not competing with Inara in Mal's affection. Perhaps not the ship herself, though she has been called the tenth character, but Mal treats her in a way that, had she been animate, would definitely give Inara cause for jealousy. But all in all, my post was designed to show how Firefly took clichés and gave them twists, so in that point I agree with you.

--
"My way of being polite, or however...well, it's the only way I have of showing you that I like you. Of showing respect." Simon Tam, Jaynestown

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Saturday, September 15, 2007 12:59 PM

BROWNCOAT2007

I have to partially agree with BOTH views

I CAN see the love triangles aspect, to a particular degree, however, I would try to classify them as a TRADITIONAL (i.e. cliched) love triangle... hell, theres a whole gorram WEB goin on in that series...

Also, would like to point out that Mal and Inaras triangle would involve Mal, Inara, the Ship, Mals job, and Inaras job... IMPO (and, no, I know how to use appostrophies, just my computer is messed up and keeps poping up a search bar every time I try and use the apostrophie key or the backslash key

)

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Saturday, September 15, 2007 1:08 PM

NBZ

@ merryk,. I mostly agree with you.

Quote:
I am truly confused by the idea that you can't have a love triangle without leaving out all the other relationships. When it comes down to it, romantic love tends to think mostly about itself, and other relationships are tossed to the side

But the "love" you are using in most examples is the non-romantic type.

River in River/Simon/Kaylee, Mal in Wash/Zoe/Mal, Serenity in Inara/Mal/Serenity are all non-romantic. Toss them out and there is no triangle.

My point? Beats me. I got no idea.

(Serenity as a real character would suck though. It would not really demand anything, but give everything.)

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Saturday, September 15, 2007 1:21 PM

MERRYK

Ah, I see. I slipped up and put "romantic" where I meant "strong" in that sentence. What I was trying to say was that the non-romantic relationships between those characters are just as strong as the romantic relationships, so the only choice is to see them as a triangle. Simon/River is just as strong as Simon/Kaylee even if the former is platonic, which is why Joss and the other writers showed that. The triangle exists in a much larger picture, but at least half the scenes with Simon and River and Kaylee are about the triangle. Same with Wash and Zoe and Mal...that's why War Stories exists.

(Yup, Serenity as a character would be awful.)

--
"My way of being polite, or however...well, it's the only way I have of showing you that I like you. Of showing respect." Simon Tam, Jaynestown

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Sunday, September 16, 2007 12:35 PM

WYTCHCROFT

Quote:
Originally posted by nbz:
I think I have to politely disagree.

One thing about Firefly is that not only were the writers/actors/everyone on the top of their game, they knew so too. There was a type of arrogance in the show which is lacking in most TV shows (and added to the whole atmosphere of the show). They took the rule book of clichés and tore it apart. Or laughed at it. They did not feel like they had to play by the same rules. One of those was love.

Don't get me wrong, there would have been plenty in this action oriented show as it has become a staple diet for all TV. Something that cannot be avoided, but Joss and co still toyed with it.

agreed - in fact trying to catch that arrogant/rules out feel has been hard but inspiring when writing fics

BUT (not actually a big but) i would disagree that 'they toyed with' Love.
I think they explore it in many forms - Mal LOVES serenity - the whole family thing - and the big love up at the end of BDM as examples. River/Simon etc.

it's a hard one - i actually forced myself today to use the L-word in fics (twice!). sheesh. I mean it is hackneyed and most people be use it the same way they say Nike./Ikea/Gap/Add own here.

"It must be LOVE"
"Are you in love?"
"Are those sneakers Nike?" etc etc (exits to blog basement)

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