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Fox: Make more episodes, but for goodness sakes have less western and more scifi!
Joss & co: We'll make a western Shootout! But since the network told us NOT to do this thing, We'll make the house out of foil paper, give the baddie a laser gun. hehe, they'll never find out.
Fox: hey, wait a minute...
Joss & Co: Ok now we are filming The Message. It has this big space station, a space chase, big explosions and people die. You'll love it!
Fox: yeah, but your still fired.

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Originally posted by RahlMaclaren:
ncluding the forementioned badness, I don't like HoG because Mal consciously [corrected] betrays Inara. When Nandi said "I ain't her.", Mal knew exactly who she was taking about.

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We know Mal is stubbornly loyal to Inara, business arrangement or no. Heck, he was in a duel with frickin' swords, where he almost died (ok, that happens a lot), just so she wouldn't leave.

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And from an architectual stand point, the house triggers my gag reflex.

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Originally posted by RahlMaclaren:
Including the forementioned badness, I don't like HoG because Mal consciencely(sp?) betrays Inara. When Nandi said "I ain't her.", Mal knew exactly who she was taking about. We know Mal is stubbornly loyal to Inara, business arrangement or no. Heck, he was in a duel with frickin' swords, where he almost died (ok, that happens a lot), just so she wouldn't leave.

And from an architectual stand point, the house triggers my gag reflex.

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Find here the Serenity you seek.

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Originally posted by nbz:

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Originally posted by RahlMaclaren:
ncluding the forementioned badness, I don't like HoG because Mal consciously [corrected] betrays Inara. When Nandi said "I ain't her.", Mal knew exactly who she was taking about.

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This is the one place I have some issues with the fans. Of course he knew, but Mal did not "betray" Inara in any sense, shape or form. There was no relationship to betray. There was none that was in the process of creation either. There was simply nothing to betray.

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Originally posted by mycrew:
NBZ I couldnt disagree with you more...

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There was a relationship to betray. Yes, it may have been unspoken and they didnt use a "term" to define it but it was there. They both love each other and he knew it would hurt her. I also dont think that Mal is waiting for Inara to "see the light". Mal is just as guilty at being stubborn and not showing his feelings. I think that they are both waiting for the other to make the first move.

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INARA: I'm not sleeping with you, Mal.

MAL: Uh, no, I think I would have noticed if you were. My keenly trained... senses would have...

INARA: You're not my lover. Neither are you my other, My House Mistress or anyone who has the slightest say in how I conduct my affairs.

MAL: Well enough. So?

INARA: So let me conduct my affairs!

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Originally posted by nbz:
Unlike in the Pilot - Serenity - where he sort of faked affection to get her to agree with his plans to abandon ship.

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And now a point to the opposite. Notice how Mal is totally at ease walking in on Inara? where did that comfort come from? maybe something happened and then unhappened before the series started? cliched, but IMO a distinct possibility.

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Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
There is a real connection between Mal & Nandi.

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If Inara can separate sex from love, why can't Mal too?

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Originally posted by mal4prez:
Excellent dialogue quote nbz! That does get the point across. And I agree about Inara's job - I think that's the convenient thing Mal's grabbed hold of to keep her at a distance. I don't think it's the heart of the matter.

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Hunh. Now see, I don't take that as fake at all. Not even a little! Reavers on the horizon - kinda makes one be truthful. I'm not saying it was a declaration of unending love or anything, but just a sign that underneath the butting of heads there's something a bit warm and fuzzy between these two.

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MAL: ...I won't have these people lookin' over my shoulder once we're gone. Now I ain't sayin' there is any peace to be had. But on the off chance there is -- then those folks deserve a little of it.

JAYNE: Fong luh, All of you.

He storms off. Simon follows. Book takes a beat, might say something, decides against it then goes. Kaylee's beaming at her Captain. Inara now moves to Mal.

INARA: And just when I think I've got you figured out.

She holds the look. Might kiss him. Doesn't. Instead she moves off. He watches her go.

KAYLEE: That was real pretty, Captain. What you said.

WASH: Didn't think you were one for rituals and such.

MAL: I'm not. But I figure it'll keep the others busy for awhile. No reason to concern them with what's to be done.

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I think it comes from the fact that Inara laid down the law right off, and Mal set up his own defenses, so in any everyday non-Reaver threatened situation they manage to look at each other in a completely non-sexual way.

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Um. What was this thread supposed to be about again?

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Originally posted by Lawman:
Has anyone noticed just how strange the entire actions of Mal are? Seriously, he is a man after all. He certainly was attracted to the very hot Mrs. Reynolds. I'm still hoping Mal and she hook up in the second movie. However, he's so goody goody two shoes about it. Even in Heart of Gold, he has to basically drink himself into sleeping with Nandi. For a man who has a few years on him, he seems to almost avoid physical intimacy with fairer sex. Even Inara is almost school girlish in her weeping scene after she finds out about the night before. For people who are very open about sexuality and with legalized prostitution, Mal and Inara have a perhaps way too romanticized notions of what love is. I really appreciate Jayne in that sense. What you see is what you get.

That's why i never kiss 'em on the mouth.

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Originally posted by nbz:
Now, tell me you didn't fall for that speech the first time around?

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I see where you are coming from. I would like to add that he deliberately does it to shatter her porcelain. Put her on the wrong foot to get a real reaction and not something she has practised for hours.

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Originally posted by rallem:
.....it ran out of power, so I wonder why the crew of Serenity didn't recover it for a prize.

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MAL4PREZ WROTE:
OK, to take a writer's view: It's the pilot episode, and Joss has a lot of info to impart on a lot of characters and not long to do it. He's already showed us that Mal is tricksey (and every time Mal is tricksey, Joss lets us know in no uncertain terms.) I think that this tiny little moment is there to tell us that Mal does indeed feel something for Inara, and that's all.

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Originally posted by nbz:
They already have laser. One of the first. The Lassiter. Who needs two?

(yeah, they probably do retrieve it for salvage/sale - they are supposed to be expensive in the 'verse. Probably in cost price and also in maintenance/usage. There is also the same issue with Jubal's ship in OiS. Why did they waste good salvage material?)

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MAL4PREZ WROTE:
OK, to take a writer's view: It's the pilot episode, and Joss has a lot of info to impart on a lot of characters and not long to do it. He's already showed us that Mal is tricksey (and every time Mal is tricksey, Joss lets us know in no uncertain terms.) I think that this tiny little moment is there to tell us that Mal does indeed feel something for Inara, and that's all.

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On the other hand - it is the pilot and he is threading many storylines - some which had to be scrapped.

As an example, one thing I noticed in the shooting script is that in Simon's speech about River, he mentions that he paid the underground to get him to Boros. Serenity goes from Persephone to Boros. Mal has no idea that he is smuggling something. Who made the deal? (I think you prefer the Book angle. I prefer the Inara angle... Have Book as the coincidence. ) incidentally, this could just be a simple mistake as in all the versions of the pilot I have in my collection, Simon says Persephone, not Boros (I may be going mad though as I always thought he said Boros before I had even read the shooting script! insanity.) It says Boros on both TwizTV and the Visual Companion shooting scripts though.

(I had a point about Mal/Inara, but I seem to have forgotten it, so i'll just move along.)

Back on topic, another thing while funny does detract from firefly is ParodyMal. Or PanickyMal. You know how he panicks when that womans water broke? it was funny, but it was also cliched for tv, and different for Mal. I shall call it ParodyMal. (put him alongside DarkMal, AngryMal, HappyMal etc to describe particular characteristics.)

Just thinking about this now, but before hand Mal has deadened his reaction to events. Yes he gets happy, sad, angry, hurt, but each and every time that sensation is deadened by an all conquering sense of calculation. Look at Mal at the start of Out of Gas before the fire. He is in there, but not. Same with most other places. Occasionally he misjudged things to hilarious consequences, but always his own reaction is muted.

When Kaylee gets shot, when he opens the box, when he finds Saffron, when he gets drugged, when he is amongst the crew as a friends and colleague, when the fire strikes, when gets tortured, when he gets back. in each of those there is always a sense of calculation in him. As if he rebuilt each and every aspect of his character with painstaking care to fashion it in a certain way. (to do that natural reactions need to be dampened.)

But when the water breaks, he is all panicky with no sense of calculation at all.

In short, ParodyMal almost feels like a parody.

thoughts? (I could be way off base though - I have not seen a single second of a single episode for about three months now. It's almost sacriledge.)

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Originally posted by nbz:
On the other hand - it is the pilot and he is threading many storylines - some which had to be scrapped.

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As an example, one thing I noticed in the shooting script is that in Simon's speech about River, he mentions that he paid the underground to get him to Boros. Serenity goes from Persephone to Boros. Mal has no idea that he is smuggling something. Who made the deal?

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You know how he panicks when that womans water broke?

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in each of those there is always a sense of calculation in him. As if he rebuilt each and every aspect of his character with painstaking care to fashion it in a certain way. (to do that natural reactions need to be dampened.)

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Originally posted by jewelstaitefan:
If ever a woman gets behind the wheel on a breaking water call, she drives as slow as possible, lights and sirens on full blast, plodding along well below the speed limit, hoping the deleivery will happen before arrival at Hospital.
PanickyMal is not a parody. It's reality. Of all that Mal is, he's still a guy.

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Originally posted by jewelstaitefan:
They want the birth to occur in their care, like as if they're midwives. It's cute, gloriuous, defining moment in a woman's life, blah blah blah. It's a women thing. All the men want to get to the Hospital as fast as possible so the birth does not occur in their presence. They are all trained to perform delivery, but they do not want to do it if avoidable. The female EMTs tend towards wanting to perform the task.

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Originally posted by AgentRouka:

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Originally posted by jewelstaitefan:
They want the birth to occur in their care, like as if they're midwives. It's cute, gloriuous, defining moment in a woman's life, blah blah blah. It's a women thing. All the men want to get to the Hospital as fast as possible so the birth does not occur in their presence. They are all trained to perform delivery, but they do not want to do it if avoidable. The female EMTs tend towards wanting to perform the task.

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Isn't that scarily selfish of them, considering they probably don't have all the pain meds on them that hospital staff would have?

I'm honestly freaked out!

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Originally posted by rallem:

Too many people put too much importance on pain medication.

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Originally posted by jewelstaitefan:
I'm not sure if you 2 are women, but I'm highly suspectin.

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Originally posted by rallem:

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Originally posted by AgentRouka:

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Originally posted by jewelstaitefan:
They want the birth to occur in their care, like as if they're midwives. It's cute, gloriuous, defining moment in a woman's life, blah blah blah. It's a women thing. All the men want to get to the Hospital as fast as possible so the birth does not occur in their presence. They are all trained to perform delivery, but they do not want to do it if avoidable. The female EMTs tend towards wanting to perform the task.

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Isn't that scarily selfish of them, considering they probably don't have all the pain meds on them that hospital staff would have?

I'm honestly freaked out!

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Too many people put too much importance on pain medication. I am not saying that pain medication does not have a place, but in my opinion too many people are taking way too many pain medications instead of looking for alternate and healthier ways of pain management.

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Originally posted by AgentRouka:

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Originally posted by rallem:

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Originally posted by AgentRouka:

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Originally posted by jewelstaitefan:
They want the birth to occur in their care, like as if they're midwives. It's cute, gloriuous, defining moment in a woman's life, blah blah blah. It's a women thing. All the men want to get to the Hospital as fast as possible so the birth does not occur in their presence. They are all trained to perform delivery, but they do not want to do it if avoidable. The female EMTs tend towards wanting to perform the task.

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Isn't that scarily selfish of them, considering they probably don't have all the pain meds on them that hospital staff would have?

I'm honestly freaked out!

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Too many people put too much importance on pain medication. I am not saying that pain medication does not have a place, but in my opinion too many people are taking way too many pain medications instead of looking for alternate and healthier ways of pain management.

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But I'm sure you agree that it should be a choice everyone gets to make for themselves, and not have it dictated by someone else's need to run your painful birth process, right?


I know many women who are all about "experiencing the pain of childbirth", going so far as to say "Why would you want children if you can't take the pain of childbirth?", which is so many levels beyond offensive and ridiculous, I don't know what to say to that.

I'm a big fan of pain meds. And modern medicine in general. Nature is not perfect, it's only as imperfect as it got away with back in times of natural selection, so I feel free to interfere with the parts that have me keening and whimpering and curled up fetal-wise.

But still, power to those who choose other paths, as well. It's the choice that matters and people taking it away, that's what riles me up madly.

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Originally posted by rallem:

People should have the choice, but I also believe that choice should be an informed choice and people should go through a form of Lamaze training which highlights various forms of pain management lessons.

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Originally posted by mal4prez:
Hmm. But I'm failing to see what storyline purpose it would serve to have Mal faking Inara out in that little bit.

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OK, I looked at the script and see that Simon's line originally said "Boros."

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You know how he panicks when that womans water broke?

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OMG! Another not so good moment. And his whole - "It's time. Oh! It's time! *panics*" Soooo stupid. I didn't even find that funny the first time I saw it. So cliche.

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Hmm, okay. I don't disagree at all, I'm just not seeing the relevance.

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I agree that he's deadened and he holds back his natural reactions, but I don't see it as calculated as much as survival mechanism. Meaning, it's not consciously done. I don't think he calculates purely to manipulate people, but to defend himself.

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JEWELSTAITEFAN wrote:
Also, I don't think Mal calculates for defense or manipulation of others. He does it to maintain effectiveness. Logical, effective thought is inhibited by emotion, which blinds the mind. To keep his wits about him, he has learned to absorb the emotion in the instantaneous situation - emeotion can be dealt with later. But if you're dead, you helped nobody.

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MAL4PREZ wrote:
A-ha! I just put on the Serenity the Pilot commentary. Joss says as Mal pushes Inara's shoulder: "Important moment! Originally, this is the first time you [Mal] made it very clear how much you care about her..." (Trying to be good and not stick out my tongue... LOL!)

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