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Originally posted by CharlieBZ:
First off, let me just say I'm glad I'm not the only one obsessed with Firefly timelines!

I agree with the majority of the dates you've worked out with the following exceptions.

1. I think Jayne came on board after Inara. Nothing solid to base this assumption on except the order of flashbacks in OoG. Also, in Serenity, Jayne says something like "I didn't sign on with this crew for the sights" which gave me the impression he hadn't been on Serenity long.

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Plus, the Operative had to spend time getting Fanty & Mingo to give up Mal. And, I don't think Fanty & Mingo would know all of Mal's hiding places - I mean, who goes around broadcasting that info to criminal businessmen? I tend to think the Operative found Haven through Book as a registered passenger and traced his current whereabouts through the Abbey.

I also think we can't base time assumptions on daytime versus nighttime on different planets. Serenity time has got to be completely independent of so-called local time which has got to give the feeling of jet lag. No wonder Mal's so grouchy!

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Originally posted by asarian:
My days of not taking you seriously have certainly come to a middle. :)

Serious now, your timeline don't look half bad. But apparently you've decided to utterly ignore the found BDM prop: the data pad with important dates on it, such as River's birthdate. I'm not sure so this prop can be waived away as a goof so easily. I would buy it from an other director, but we're talking about Joss here, the man who actually had the letters in "Safe" contain the story line from a shooting script (the stuff about them having had a vacation at the lake, last year). So, I'd say Joss is not one to be overly careless with such details.

Having said that, that prop lists November 2516 as the date River escapes. And I can, my own self, not make that date construe with ANY other info we have. So, maybe that prop is indeed best let go of. As long as we're aware that that's what we're doing.

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It's unlikely the BDM takes place in only 2 days, though. I'm with a week, at least (especially considering all the leg-work the Operative has to do to get to Mal and his).

Oh, and there's sleep alright. :) Right before Mal receives wave from Inara, he's seen waking up:

WASH
Mal! You up?

I got a wave. I'm gonna
bounce it down to you.

Mal wakes up, there. It's an especially subtle scene, since River, at the same time, wakes up too, from her "Cut them down!" dream.


--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

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Originally posted by CharlieBZ:

You've got to factor in time it took for the Operative to suss out all the info on Mal, get to Inara, "persuade" her to wave Mal. She is wearing different clothes in her wave from when she first met the Operative which indicates more time passed. (Of course, she does like wearing different outfits so this might not mean anything )

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I also think we can't base time assumptions on daytime versus nighttime on different planets. Serenity time has got to be completely independent of so-called local time which has got to give the feeling of jet lag. No wonder Mal's so grouchy!

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Originally posted by jewelstaitefan:

In the "few hours" that Serenity goes from Training House to Haven, the Operative eradicates the mining camp. I don't see where this shows that the Operative is taking his time - contrarily, this seems to indicate he is very quick, ruthless, efficient. Not fiddling around. Thus the conclusion Beaumonde is a few hours away as well.

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I should have clearly stated that I was providing this summary of timeline for use among firelfyfans. I'd assumed some of the data might help fanfic writers, even if I don't get over there much. And also to better understand the interactive dynamics of various relationships among the Independants, Alliance, characters, etc. I did not intend this to be a decree or tablet of Commandments. If this is not agreed upon by most here, it has lost it's purpose. Hopefully it will be able to stand as a reference for the data we (mostly) agree upon - not that it won't have some detracters.

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And I should have clearly stated that I appreciate your endless work in this area. But messing with the timeline is always hazardous. Haven't you seen enough SF for that? :) Seriously, though, I tend to err on the side of caution when it comes to making such changes. And you, your own self, keep changing it, too. And that's a good thing; it's called 'refining', as you, erm, called it. :) But it also means that, like crime and politics, the situation remains largely fluid until we find truly solid evidence to the contrary.

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Originally posted by jewelstaitefan:

Not sure if the end of hostilities of BoSV was the same end of hostilites of the entire war (Unification Day), or if U-Day was slightly after the negoitiated surrender of Serenity Valley.

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So, did BoSV start 7 weeks before the date celebrated as U-Day?
Was the scene in the beginning of the Pilot 5 weeks into BoSV and 2 weeks before the end of Hostilities?
What do you folks think? or does it not really matter?

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Originally posted by jewelstaitefan:
Remember when Simon comes to the cargo bay, asks what she's doing? She says Oh, crime! We're doing crime.

The script said she's supposed to be shy, maybe due to Simon. When I see that, her look could be shyness, but when somebody mentioned her recuperation tiem, that look she had immediately popped into my head as a wan look, like she's not completely 100%. I could be off, let me know when you see it again. She's standing and moving OK, just the look on her face seemed different.
Regardless, because she had such a fast recovery due to Simon's doctorin skills, a couple days seems like enough for her to be back on her feet.

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Originally posted by asarian:

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Originally posted by jewelstaitefan:

Not sure if the end of hostilities of BoSV was the same end of hostilites of the entire war (Unification Day), or if U-Day was slightly after the negoitiated surrender of Serenity Valley.

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In Bushwhacked, Harken says, "Some say after Serenity, the Browncoats were through. That the war really ended in that valley." His "really ended" clearly suggest the war ended a short time after the Battle of Serenity Valley was lost. So, I'd say U-Day was slightly after the negoitiated surrender of Serenity. Likely no more than two weeks. Probably even less.

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So, did BoSV start 7 weeks before the date celebrated as U-Day?
Was the scene in the beginning of the Pilot 5 weeks into BoSV and 2 weeks before the end of Hostilities?
What do you folks think? or does it not really matter?

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The start/end of the Battle of Serenity Valley certainly matters. The Operative's data pad (deleted scenes, BDM) clearly reads: "May 2511 on Hera." So, where you're getting "Late July 2511" from is unclear to me; save to have it support your notion that The Train Job took place "Approx 12-17 August 2511". And, of course, River's escape and birthdate, which kinda have to be near august/december 2500, so that, come the Train Job, River is seventeen.

Since almost every date, directly or indirectly, is calculated back from the start/end of the Battle of Serenity Valley, I'd say that date materially impacts the entire timeline.

N.B. not saying your "Late July 2511" is wrong, btw. Just sayin' that date probably is one of the most important ones.


--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

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Originally posted by CharlieBZ:
The May 2511 date for the Battle of Serenity leaves a lot of room for interpretation. Is this date the start or the end? Even if that was the end, I think it still supports your assertion of an August U-Day. As Asarian pointed out, Commander Harken stated that Serenity marked the beginning of the end. So, Serenity didn't necessarily have to be the last battle and the week (or was it 2?) Mal & Co. spent waiting in the Valley was a negotiation for the end of that particular, albeit significant, battle but not the war itself.

I'm curious about the change in episode order. I've heard about this but it doesn't quite make sense. Frankly, I cannot see how HoG could be before Trash & Message. Inara was leaving so why would she care about clients as she was in Trash? Why would she say she "might as well be part of the crew" if she was leaving? Also, Mal and Inara seem to be friendly in the Message which I have a hard time seeing after the emotional events of HoG.

Maybe it was just filming order?

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Originally posted by SpaceAnJL:
I've always thought that Jayne was already on the ship when Inara rented the shuttle, just from that OMR line, and the line in TJ about Inara being on the ship eight months...

Order that the crew came on board would be Mal, Zoe, Bester, Wash, Kaylee, Jayne.

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Originally posted by CharlieBZ:
The May 2511 date for the Battle of Serenity leaves a lot of room for interpretation. Is this date the start or the end? Even if that was the end, I think it still supports your assertion of an August U-Day. As Asarian pointed out, Commander Harken stated that Serenity marked the beginning of the end. So, Serenity didn't necessarily have to be the last battle and the week (or was it 2?) Mal & Co. spent waiting in the Valley was a negotiation for the end of that particular, albeit significant, battle but not the war itself.

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