The Man Is Psychotic---does the Joke stick out? by AnotherSky

FIREFLY EPISODE DISCUSSIONS

The Man Is Psychotic---does the Joke stick out?

POSTED BY: ANOTHERSKY
UPDATED: Friday, April 17, 2009 23:54
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Sunday, March 15, 2009 11:25 PM

I'm reposting here because I think it's more appropriate:

Read an outside review of firefly's original pilot (read here: http://www.entil2001.com/series/firefly/season1dvd/ff1-1.html). Focused on how pilot set up the characters (duh).

However, the reviewer made the point that Mal's "Kaylee's dead" joke seemed to be way out of place.

I don't think so at all: it showed Simon's utter sincerity of profession (and tendency to trust people), and just how deep, dark and twisted Mal's inner world can be at times, since that is his humor. He also doesn't really give a rat's pi gu about Simon at that point, given the whole "do we threaten to kill them or just set 'em down somewhere convenient" conversation.

Seems to me also to be a very clear "don't mess with me" type of joke, which fits with the Mal-Simon interaction throughout the series and Movie.

Mal had to get back at Simon. ("Curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal!" ;)--It was not a nice joke.) But since the crew laughs,(and they seem so nice) we have to laugh. Until we start wondering about the joke, and who we should be worried about exactly. It fits with the entire "everything is not what it looks like on this boat" nature of the entire pilot.

Although, after he sees a slice of who Simon really is at the river-in-a-box scene, it could be a misstep for Mal's character to do this. After all, Simon's not just the rich alliance-tinged boy any more. Not to mention having patched up (in effect) Serenity's operating systems(ie their mechanic, who gets to repair with essentially string and chewing gum as tools).

But Mal forgets things. And his system is hardwired for humor. Bleak humor if that's the situation--who jokes at an Operative?

Any opinions on this? Any other thoughts on the pilot?

"I think we lost our fuzzy dice back there."
"Going for a ride."

Another Sky

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Saturday, March 28, 2009 6:11 PM

SCHISM

I thought it was the single most endearing trait of the entire series.

I know not of a time before that moment that I had laughed so hard.

If it WAS out of character for Mal then I was too blinded by tears to notice.

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Saturday, March 28, 2009 11:30 PM

ASARIAN

Quote:
Originally posted by AnotherSky:
I'm reposting here because I think it's more appropriate:

Read an outside review of firefly's original pilot (read here: http://www.entil2001.com/series/firefly/season1dvd/ff1-1.html). Focused on how pilot set up the characters (duh).

However, the reviewer made the point that Mal's "Kaylee's dead" joke seemed to be way out of place.

Reviewer, schmoo-er! In earnest, they seem rather ignorant about the series (see below).

Quote:

Mal had to get back at Simon. ("Curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal!" ;) --It was not a nice joke.) But since the crew laughs,(and they seem so nice) we have to laugh. Until we start wondering about the joke, and who we should be worried about exactly. It fits with the entire "everything is not what it looks like on this boat" nature of the entire pilot.

Indeed, Mal had to get back at Simon. But I'm not even sure it was meant as a joke. At the threat of not treating Kaylee, Simon had forced Mal to take off (like Kaylee says, it's not likely Simon would really have let her die, but that's beside the point). Mal gave in. Had to. What Mal did in return, though, I think was not so much pull a joke, as reversing the tables, as it were. Mal wouldn't let one of his crew die, so he hits Simon in that exact same spot: letting him think he let Kaylee die. Just to give him a taste of his own medicine, so to speak. And of course the imapact is way deep for Simon, being a Doctor and all, having sworn, above all, to do no harm. It's Mal's way of letting Simon know you do not frak with that sorta thing. Plus letting the rich kid know that real life ain't a game. After all, Kaylee could really have died.

Sure, they all laughed afterwards; hysterically, even. But I think that's more from the abrupt relief about the happy ending than anything else: Mal's 'joke' defused all tension in one ingenious stroke. But I don't think 'twisted humor' was what set Mal off primarily.

Now, as to why I think the reviewer is full of pigu, read this:

"Predictably, when Jayne is tasked with interrogating Dobson, his mercenary side comes to the fore. It’s unclear whether Jayne actually helps Dobson or not; it’s certainly suggested, and even though Jayne denies it at the end of the episode, there’s no reason to think that Jayne wouldn’t have taken an opportunity. Everything ugly about Jayne comes out in this scene, and it becomes very clear that even though he’s a dim-witted psychopath, he’s still a psychopath."

That's itself the most dim-witted analysis about Jayne I've come across in a long while. Jayne is not a psychopath at all. And hardly dim-witted, at that. As for 'Everything ugly about Jayne comes out in this scene,' quite the opposite, in fact. It shows that Jayne lives by his own code (a 'merc' code, if you will). That scene is meant to show that Jayne is loyal to the Captain, and that he's not 'just' in it for the money. That's his code (sure enough he betrays River and Simon at Ariel; but, in his mind, it's not like he did it to the Captain: that's Jayne's big thing). The only thing Jayne 'denies' at the end of the episode, or hides, rather, is the real reason why he didn't turn on Mal. Yet by saying "Money weren't good enough," Jayne lets Mal in on his code, after all, as they both know the money Dobson offered was really more than enough.

So, forget reviewers, and just enjoy the show! :)

--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

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Thursday, April 2, 2009 1:48 PM

TRAVELER

I wish I had seen this series when it came out. I would have raised the ratings. The good point about being introduced to the series through the DVD set is seeing the series in a decent order. "Serenity" should have been first. It is as the critic points out a fine piece of work. The executives want more bang, but this episode see fast paced and an emotional rollercoaster. I am caught up in it from the start to the finish. I could not ask for more.

http://www.imdb.com/mymovies/list?l=28764731
Traveler

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Wednesday, April 15, 2009 8:03 AM

TEXARCANA

Any critiques of Firefly should be quietly flushed out an airlock.
It has it's rough edges; but any diamond does when first created...
Mal's get-back at Simon can viewed in the simplest of terms: The Crew is out on the raggedy edge of living in the 'Verse.
Locker-room humour (my definition of that type of practical joking) WOULD be present in such a "close" environment.
Look at the frankness of the discussion/jibing in regard to sex as well ("Goin' on a year now I ain't had nothin' twixt my nethers weren't run on batteries!").
It is one of the mental-stability tools a group of people who deal with the "rough and tumble" as a TEAM would get by with any piece of sanity intact.
Otherwise they would end up staring off into the darkness. Slowly losing their thoughts, and minds in the void.

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Wednesday, April 15, 2009 3:58 PM

TRAVELER

Excellent point,TexArcana.

After all Mal and Zoe were in a war with death all around them. This dark humour would be a defense to protect their mental stability. Jayne would have this same attitude with his life style. The others would adapt quickly or leave.

http://www.imdb.com/mymovies/list?l=28764731
Traveler

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Friday, April 17, 2009 10:12 AM

TEXARCANA

Exactly Traveler.
And I'm guessing that Kaylee's home-spun lifestyle (though innocent in many ways)would help her adapt.
Book had more experience with the seemier parts of human nature than many I suspect from his "previous life".
Inara's training, and experience would be pretty good armour against being "ruffled"...
Wash is well...Wash; Humour and good nature make a person pretty adaptable in a situation where a group is "close".
River would understand, because she sees.
Simon? Well nobody had a bigger stick up their "pe goo" (sp?) than Simon.
He needed some tempering...lol

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Friday, April 17, 2009 10:46 AM

STORYMARK

Ya'll are getting so defensive. Of course an outside, just seeing the pilot, is not going to have the depth of understanding of the characters that a bunch of fans who have analyzed every episode ad nauseum would have.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Friday, April 17, 2009 11:07 AM

TRAVELER

I guess it was all those MASH episodes I watched that taught me how the human mind survives the cruelity of war. Their humour was very dark. The original MASH movie was even darker.

http://www.imdb.com/mymovies/list?l=28764731
Traveler

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Friday, April 17, 2009 11:54 PM

ANOTHERSKY

Asarian: Nice, I agree with the motive interp. Nice "sister" parallel.

--
Brilliant: "flushed out an airlock"...XD
--

Texarcana,
Completely agree with your characterizations and survival mechanisms.

However, despite the fact that Simon is an alliancy rich-boy doctor (ie inherently challenging the captain's authority in every major way just by being on the ship), somebody who has enough chutzpah to also stand up to Mal for the sake of his sister's life doesn't seem to be the definition of pi gu problems to me. He just takes the same tack Mal does--persuasive bargaining plus lethal threat. However, Mal 1.) can't stand that(personally--check out Saffron) and 2.) can't have that(mutiny issues).

And Mal puts him in his place. Dark humor ftw! We're out in the black. We like it dark.

The real message is that the Alliance (ie Dobson) puts the two different men in the same situation--at risk of losing their mei-meis and possibly their lives.
Regardless of who gets put in what place or who has attitude problems, they can both respect what the other fights for.

--
"I think we lost our fuzzy dice back there."
"Going for a ride."

Another Sky

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