More controversy.... by jewelstaitefan

FIREFLY EPISODE DISCUSSIONS

More controversy....

POSTED BY: JEWELSTAITEFAN
UPDATED: Wednesday, December 15, 2010 03:51
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Sunday, July 19, 2009 10:26 PM

The last 4 coworkers I've hooked all agree the Pilot Serenity is the better.
But on bluray, BDM has more enhancements than Pilot.

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Sunday, July 19, 2009 10:48 PM

AGENTROUKA

Pilot, hands down.

I could have lived without the BDM, it let me down on too many levels to make up for its good parts.

The only things I would truly miss about the BDM are the beautiful visuals of the ship and Jayne standing up to Mal. Oh, and the music in the end scene. THAT is truly lovely. And the Operative.

The rest? Meh.

And yes, I know that the movie HAD to be the way it was because of being a different medium, but understanding why doesn't remove the fact that the movie contained very little of what I enjoyed about the series.

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Monday, July 20, 2009 2:02 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Pilot. Easy. No one dies.

The T.Rex they call JANE!

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Saturday, July 25, 2009 5:51 PM

YERSINIA

Shiny! It isn't "just me." Yeah, given a choice between the BDM and the pilot, I think the pilot is better -- and I can say that easily. Mostly it's for reasons others gave here (character development). This isn't to say I didn't like the movie at all though (if I hadn't liked it, my friend wouldn't have given me the series and the movie on DVD).

So yeah I saw the movie first and liked it quite a lot, but there were things I didn't really get (until I got the series, and then watched the BDM a couple more times).

IMO the BDM has some priceless scenes which I really love (and wish could have somehow been part of the series, among my favorites being River's fight scenes), but once I watched the series I found a couple of to me very disturbing inconsistencies when I put the BDM back on:

1. At the end of the series, Shepherd Book was still on Serenity, so what in Special Hell is he doing on Haven when we get to the BDM?!

2. In the series, Simon smuggles River in the box. He talks about how he'd spent time and money cultivating people get her from The Academy where the Alliance was screwing around with her brain -- and now in the BDM, SIMON is rescuing River himself? Huh?

Also I don't think the BDM had to repeat that whole "do we keep or dump the fugitives" Simon and River issue as if it'd never happened. That tension was totally excellent through the series, but supposedly had been resolved, even though Jayne tried to sell them out to the Alliance in "Ariel" which was AFTER Mal had already declared Simon to be a member of his crew and River could stay too as long as Simon kept her under control (not to mention how Mal welcomed River back to the ship at the end of "Objects in Space") -- so I think restarting that from scratch was totally unnecessary to and kind of detracted from the BDM.

So yeah, hands down, pilot for me -- even though I still like the BDM too.

"Call me if anyone interesting shows up..."

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Monday, September 14, 2009 4:59 PM

SHINYWASH

Like a lot of people, I saw the movie first too. My brother had to almost twist my arm to watch, but I gave it a chance because it starred Nathan Fillion, who I like and Steve the Pirate (Alan Tudyk, but at the time I only knew him as "Pirate Steve"). I thought it was pretty good, but it wasn't until the second time I watched the movie that I truly got sucked in and suddenly had this insane urge to know more about the characters and the Firefly 'verse.

After that, I just had to watch the series (which my brother had also previously tried to get me to watch). And of course, you know what happens...I completely fell in love with the whole kit and kaboodle. So after completely immersing myself in the series, I went back and watched the movie. Ugh. The movie I had previously quite enjoyed left me just a little unsatisfied.

I agree with the inconsistency of Simon all of a sudden rescuing River himself and the way Simon and River were treated by Mal, when it's already been established both in Ariel and OiS that he accepted them as part of his crew.

Like so many others, I'm upset over the death of Wash and Shepard Book. Probably because I feel like the whole Firefly story is still left to be told and they are such an integral part of it. If the series had been allowed to run its natural course and then the movie occurred and they died, it would probably be a different story. I would feel sad for their loss, but not like I've been cheated.

And a big hurt was memorializing Mr. Universe, who sold them out, with two of their dear friends (yes, I know, they didn't know he had sold them out).

I understand that the tv show and the BDM are two totally different mediums and have to tell their stories in different ways. The show has the luxury of taking things slower, explaining things better and ultimately, cultivating the relationships, developing the characters and showcasing the dynamics of the group, which I'm a huge fan of.

So my vote is for the pilot. Not that the BDM wasn't a good story on it's own, like I said, before I had any knowledge of what happened in the series, I thought it was very good. But it just wasn't on par with the series. The series leaves me warm and happy. The movie leaves me cold and dissatisfied.

"What can it be? We're all doomed! Who's flying this thing? Oh right, that would be me."

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Monday, September 14, 2009 9:26 PM

YERSINIA

Quote:
Originally posted by Shinywash:
And a big hurt was memorializing Mr. Universe, who sold them out, with two of their dear friends (yes, I know, they didn't know he had sold them out).

HUH?! Oh wow, where did you get the idea that Mr. Universe sold them out? The way I saw it, the Operative found, then killed him, the same way he found and used or killed all of Mal's other allies on various planets, starting with Inara (so he'd come for her or send someone), moving on to Shepherd Book at Haven, and then those scenes of death and destruction from the other places where Mal and the crew had friends.

So I think Mr. Universe was simply found and killed, and although that message he left for Mal in his love bot ended up giving the same instructions on how to find the backup system to the Operative as it did to Mal, it was Mal for whom the instructions were actually left, and maybe because he was dying from being stabbed with the sword, he didn't have time to take any security precautions to make sure that the love bot would only tell Mal where the backup was.

So what did I miss?!

~Yersinia.

"Call me if anyone interesting shows up..."

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Monday, September 14, 2009 9:28 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Quote:
Originally posted by Shinywash:

And a big hurt was memorializing Mr. Universe, who sold them out, with two of their dear friends (yes, I know, they didn't know he had sold them out).

I don't recall hearing this point of view.
Mal knew the Operative was waiting for him, on the other side of the ion cloud, and he knew this before they left Miranda.
Mr. Universe knew Mal would show up, outwitting the Operative, and left a message directly for "MAL" giving him the secret location of the intact broadcast system.

Do we really think this was a "betrayal" or just another exchange like Inara waving and not fighting so that Mal would know it was a trap, instead of her just missing him, like aa real people. I had thought Masl and Mr Universe had been reading each other beyond the surface in the "subliminal trigger" conversation.
Mr Universe didn't really have much choice but to give a good performance for the Operative while chatting with Mal.

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Tuesday, September 15, 2009 12:29 AM

MEATPUPPET42

just before Mr.U gets skewered he says "there toss me my 30 coin but i have to warn you..Ahaaaaaaaa" so I think he is selling them out for money.

Thats why I don't kiss them on the mouth.

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Tuesday, September 15, 2009 4:33 AM

SHINYWASH

Yup, that's it exactly. "Toss me my 30 coin". Mr. Universe sold them out, but he doesn't realize that the Operative doesn't bargain. He figured he could help lure them in, get paid for it and as Serenity approached the base, the Operative would take them out - they'd be none the wiser.

After he realized he was double-crossed, he then leaves the message for Mal about the back up broadcast system.

---
"What can it be? We're all doomed! Who's flying this thing?! Oh right, that would be me."

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Tuesday, September 15, 2009 5:22 AM

BYTEMITE

Actually, I think Mr. Universe felt like he didn't have a whole lot of choice more than he WANTED to sell them out.

You'll notice the line is delivered in a very disgruntled manner, very different from the perkiness Mr. Universe had shown previously, and that not just the Operative, but a WHOLE LOT of purple bellies are in the room. I think the hacker was finally tracked down, like many of Mal's other contracts/friends, was forced to comply, and that the request for money was sarcastic.

Remember the scene in the training house, when Mal says the Operative is working this deal all crabbed, and that money should be offered first? I got a similar impression.

Also, with the previous scene where they wave Mr. Universe about what happened at the Maidenhead, there's a cut to the Operative and he already has all the information on the crew. I don't think Mr. Universe supplied the Operative with that information, I think that future camera technology has face recognition software attached to a database the Alliance keeps of it's citizens over the Cortex, something like Interpol. In the comic Better Days, it's revealed that Simon's snazzy glasses are actually specially designed to interfere with the security camera recording and face recognition software.

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Tuesday, September 15, 2009 5:46 AM

TWO

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

Quote:
Originally posted by Shinywash:
... So my vote is for the pilot...

Do you remember when the Operative shot Mal in the back with a laser pistol? "You willing to die for that?" said the Operative. "I am...", says Mal. Bang! Bang! Bang! "But that ain't exactly Plan A." I was shocked when Mal turned his back (AGAIN!!) on the Operative. Implausible. "Nobody's that stupid...", I groaned. "Hush!", said Myriam, next to me in the theater. It turns out that Mal was smarter than I thought, at least in the original 190 pages screenplay.

Anybody got any comments on how unbelievable it was for Mal to turn his back on the Operative rather than fight him? Mal was only 5 easy paces from the Operative. The Operative still had a gun, too, but Mal didn't know it was broken. Mal was very foolish to turn his back toward an enemy with a loaded gun.

If you go to page 169 of the original 190 page script, the generator room where Mal and the Operative have their final fight was laid out differently than the movie. Mal would need to cross 40 feet, going hand over hand, to return to the place where the Operative was hiding from Mal's gunfire. In that situation, it made perfect sense for Mal to turn his back on the Operative. But that wasn't the movie that was made. Which is why I liked the TV pilot Serenity better than the movie Serenity.

The Joss Whedon script for "Serenity", where Wash lives, is at
www.fileden.com/files/2008/8/13/2048723/Serenity-190pages.pdf

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Tuesday, September 15, 2009 6:11 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Coming in waaaaay late, but what the heck, its been brought to the surface again. So my vote is: Series pilot, by a mile. It's filled with humanity...the movie is "bigger", but has far less humanity to it...human interaction, "just folk" stuff, the essence of our BDHs. For me at least.

________________________
Together we are greater than the sum of our parts

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Tuesday, September 15, 2009 9:28 AM

STORYMARK

For me, the BDM.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Tuesday, September 15, 2009 8:17 PM

MANGOLO

Another late to the discussion:

I'd have to say the pilot.

One thing, as a filmmaker having worked on and made both television programs and feature films, bugs me about the BDM. I enjoyed it immensely, I laughed, I cried, I admired Joss in the feature film form, but I was left with this thought a little while later- the same amount of money spent on the BDM could have given us a whole other season of Firefly. The thought makes my eyes go blurry...dunno why. Maybe something about the disbelief in the way the entertainment industry (and entertainment lawyers) can screw the pooch.

So since, many have weighed in on the original question- here are two more hypothetical ones:

Which would you have had rather- another season of Firefly or the BDM? (I doubt they'll be any surprises with this one, but hey, surprise me)

Since the BDM didn't really make a profit until long after its run in the theaters (and that still is in question, as far as I know, due to the division of the rights to the revenue), which would have made more money for the folks who paid the bills-another season of Firefly or the BDM?

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=86085840444

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Wednesday, September 16, 2009 3:36 AM

TWO

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

Quote:
Originally posted by Mangolo:
So since, many have weighed in on the original question- here are two more hypothetical ones:
Which would you have had rather- another season of Firefly or the BDM? (I doubt they'll be any surprises with this one, but hey, surprise me)

I would have wanted another season of TV (20 episodes, 45 minutes each, 900 minutes total) more than another 120 minute movie. The movie could have been made into 4 episodes followed by episodes during the rebuilding of Serenity. With Serenity broke-down, the crew is grounded -- no running away each week to a new planet. They have a whole new set of problems.

There could be stories about how River got sane. Comedy when hilariously vulgar Jayne gets a local girlfriend who has kids needing a father figure. The crew can switch from strong arm criminals to con-men. The crew become local heroes because of Miranda! For better pay and longer life expectancy, Kaylee quits Mal to work in the shipyard where Serenity is being repaired. And when that gets boring, the repairs on Serenity are finished and they all take-off for a third season back in outer space.

The TV show will need a long-term villain. Keep the Operative but use him very sparingly; he may have lost his faith in the Parliament, but he is still a patriot of the Alliance. He has secret plans for River. And the show will need a long-term existential danger -- make the Reavers smart and more than cannibal Zombies easily annihilated with a thousand ship-to-ship missiles.

And killing Wash? That was all part of Joss Whedon's secret master plan -- much like killing John Locke on the fabulously successful series Lost. And Joss killed Wash years before Lost killed Locke than brought him back to life. Joss was there first and J.J. Abrams stole the idea because Joss wasn't using it. Same thing with Battlestar Galactica killing Starbuck than miraculously bringing her back to life. If Lost and Battlestar can do it, Firefly can do it better.

Quote:
Originally posted by Mangolo:
Since the BDM didn't really make a profit until long after its run in the theaters (and that still is in question, as far as I know, due to the division of the rights to the revenue), which would have made more money for the folks who paid the bills-another season of Firefly or the BDM?

Make more money selling a second season of Firefly on dvd than Serenity movie. (I'm assuming the second season is still on Fox, Friday nights, and has few viewers.) People will pay more for 6 dvd in a season than 1 dvd in a movie.

The Joss Whedon script for "Serenity", where Wash lives, is at
www.fileden.com/files/2008/8/13/2048723/Serenity-190pages.pdf

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Wednesday, September 16, 2009 11:14 AM

SHINYWASH

Hands down, I would have preferred another season of Firefly over the BDM.

As I stated before, I love the interaction of the characters, their development and the relationships between them that you just can't get in a movie.

Perhaps another season, or at least just letting them finish the first season would have made a difference. Unfortunately, people tend to judge things by their cover and on its cover, Firefly appears like it's "Cowboys in Space", Westerns meet Sci Fi. Okay, so it is, but it really is so much more than that. Joss Whedon, (albeit brilliantly) melded two genres that are niche genres. I personally don't like Westerns nor do I care too much for Sci Fi. So looking at the show's surface, I never would have paid attention to the series when it was originally running, unless someone bashed it into my head how good the show was.

They just needed to give it a little more time for the word to spread, for people to realize the brillance that Firefly is.

"What can it be? We're all doomed! Who's flying this thing?! Oh right, that would be me."

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Wednesday, September 23, 2009 3:08 PM

YERSINIA

Wow, yeah! I'd have liked another season of Firefly better than the BDM too.

"Call me if anyone interesting shows up..."

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Wednesday, September 23, 2009 7:10 PM

MANGOLO

Nathan is having such success with Castle, now I doubt we can get him back for more than a mini-series.

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Thursday, September 24, 2009 5:13 AM

YERSINIA

Quote:
Originally posted by Mangolo:
Nathan is having such success with Castle, now I doubt we can get him back for more than a mini-series.

I'd think they'd have ALL moved on with their acting careers by this time, and I don't think the return of Firefly is ever actually going to happen. It's just that when the idea that the cost of making the BDM could have instead paid for another season of Firefly was suggested, and, the question of which was preferable of these two alternatives -- BDM vs. another season's worth of Firefly episodes was asked -- I personally would have rather had the episodes instead of the BDM.

Ah, well....

"Call me if anyone interesting shows up..."

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Sunday, January 10, 2010 1:55 AM

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Updating the vote totals.
32 for Pilot Serenity, 5 for BDM Serenity.

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Thursday, January 28, 2010 7:29 PM

BLUESUNCOMPANYMAN

The Pilot is superior, without a doubt.

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Wednesday, March 17, 2010 4:15 AM

DMI

Expired, forgotten, spoiled rotten.

Quote:

BDM hands down. The pilot is great and all but it's only a piece of a bigger story. If I have to go with a stand alone 2 hours of the verse then the BDM wins easily.

I think the pilot stands alone better than the movie does. You don't have to know anything about the 'verse to appreciate the pilot but I know several people who saw Serenity and, though they liked it, they didn't understand why it was such a big deal that that preacher guy died and had other problems with putting things in context.

I vote for the pilot but I have to disagree with the browncoat who said that the BDM is inferior to the worst episode of the series. Worse than Heart of Gold? Really?

If JewelStaitFan's last numbers are right then we're now at 34 for the pilot and 6 for the BDM.

I pray for one last landing,
on the globe that gave me birth.
Let me rest my eyes on the fleecy skies
and the cool, green hills of Earth.

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Monday, July 12, 2010 10:25 AM

LAUREN779

I can not not love them both, and it's hard for me to choose. I loved how the Pilot introduced all the characters beautifully, and how significant each member was to the crew. I also loved the BDM because, for me, it strengthened the pilot episode, especially on Miranda when Mal is giving is speech about how each came on this ship for different reasons, but we all need to stay together-or something like that (though I will admit that I missed Book in that scene).

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Tuesday, August 10, 2010 9:09 AM

CORTEXOVERRIDE

The pilot seemed more original in it's visual storytelling from the 'gritty look' that was portrayed through David Boyd's cheap camera lenses to the locations that were chosen to shoot on. Now don't get me wrong, I do love the BDM, but I would love it more if it didn't have as many similarities to the animated flick TITAN A.E. Not only does it have a similar back story, as well as the characters and the environments, but also some of the action sequences were 'cookie cuttered' from that film and placed into the BDM. Well, 2 of the 3 screen writers for that film were Joss Whedon and Ben Edlund, so that probably explains it.

______________________________________________
> Can You Teach People How To Think? Think About It!

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Wednesday, December 15, 2010 3:51 AM

TOADSMOOTHY

Definately the Pilot Serenity for me.

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